Master DW Axe Bleed + Master Bow + 2 DoTs + Pressure = Sorc still happily bunnyhops in shields.

Facefister

Look, another "I can't handle a certain situation, please nerf the factors of said situation"-thread by a PvPer.

TequilaFire

Facefister wrote: »

Look, another "I can't handle a certain situation, please nerf the factors of said situation"-thread by a PvPer.

As if you could.

Facefister

Wouldn't make me cry "NERF!"

Nyladreas

Aisle9 wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

Gprime31 wrote: »

A good tank can withstand 10+ people hitting it
Hence “tank”

Yes but he can't deal full damage back from the backline while being safe and pampered over there. Then run into the crowd and bunnyhop unharmed all the same time. A tank gets maybe 1 chance with an ult, not an entire set of skills and burst combos.

Let's examine that claim, shall we ?

Battle spirit halves the strength of shields
You lose ~ 4-5k magicka when playing NO-CP

Hardened ward is the main magsorc shield. They don't have any other shield in their class kit.

Harness Magicka is the 2nd shield they can slot, Dampen gives a bigger shield, but at the cost of extra sustain, which is kind of a big deal (we'll get there).

Healing Ward is the 3rd, but that forces you to go Destro/Resto.

In any case the sorc is only getting 1 extra skill from their specific class kit, not a whole set. Everyone has access to harness and healing ward, as opposed to, let's say, a DK, that gets wings (reflect projectiles), hardened armor (damage shield, major ward and resolve, extra healing received), igneous shield (major mending, damage shield), dragon blood (healing + bonus healing regen), or a warden that gets crystal shield (reflect projectiles), Ice fortress (major ward and resolve + 8% damage reduction)...

It's NO-CP so you're not getting anything from Bastion.

You need either Inner Light or Bound Aegis to counter the loss of magicka, since shields only stacks on magicka, ideally both.

Using 3 shields + 2 passive slottable means you can't go necropotence, because you don't have room for a pet.
Using 2 shields + 1 passive slottable + pet means you lose magicka, but you can use necropotence. You get a bit more magicka, but then you'll have to manage the matriarch and double slot it.

NO-CP + Matriarch + Necropotence + Lich + Witchmother's brew = 43k magicka

NO-CP, so no Bastion,
Hardened Ward = 16790/ 2 (battle spirit) = 8395k
Harness Magicka = ~15k (mine was rank III, so I don't have an exact figure)/2 = 7.5k

total of ~16k shield at the cost of 4k magicka (harness) + 2.9k magicka (Hardened) = 7k magicka

Base recovery with 3 recovery glyphs + witchmother's = 2188 (3180 when lich procs, but it requires to be under 15k magicka).

So 2k magicka ever 2s, so effective shields cost = 7k -> 6k when lich procs.

Harness returns 1500 magicka, up to 3 times, when the shield is hit, but only spell damage, so physical damage doesn't count.

The only way to keep this up for 1 minute and half (90s) is by making sure to cast each shield every 4s and heavy attacking in between.

That precludes you from actually attacking, with anything different than heavy attacks, which you can't anyways because your bar is entirely dedicated to your shields.

If you factor rune cage (3k magicka) and Mage's Wrath (2k magicka) that's an extra 3k drain, and it's not enough unless frags procs (which may not, since it doesn't count hardened ward in your backbar).

Also you need to double bar aegis and matriarch (matriarch at least) so you only have 3 remaining slots (rune cage, frags, wrath).

If you don't use necropotence reaching 45k magicka is not feasible (no extra magicka from having a pet active, and no extra magicka from the set), so your shields go from 16k in total to something like ~13k total strength.

If you add a 3rd shield you have to sacrifice magicka, thus making every other shield less effective and increasing the magicka drain.

All of this, ofc, comes at the cost of damage, since you're investing everything you have in recovery (my spell damage is 1.2.k unbuffed), so if you miss your burst, frag doesn't proc, the matriarch dies, you're done for.

If you can't do 13k damage in 4s, with all your fancy gear, there's something wrong with you, not with your opponent.

Either way, keeping up shields + damage skills for 1 and a half minute is not feasible, so the statement is either incorrect or false, since they can only do one or the other, not both at the same time, which is also the reason why shield stacking sorcs bail when they realize they're fighting an opponent capable of pressuring them effectively.

Also, there's the distinct possibility that your opponent noticed you were hitting them with potato damage and started bunny hopping to mock you, in an effort to mine some salt and make you less effective (it worked, it seems).

Hope this clarifies.
Have a nice day.

*edit*
Just for clarification, I main magblade, so I'm not the most experienced magsorc around, fairly sure there are a bunch of people capable of expanding on that.

Why would you waste your time on writing all of this for nothing?

You're not changing my mind. Besides I'm not saying they stack shields and damage simultaneously in the same moment. But rather deal insane damage while being safe behind their team.

I know what I saw and I'm just going to suck it up and move on, since people here clearly can't accept anything and always have their own theories and explanations and visions of everything.

They also ahead and try to mock whoever complains with ridiculous assumptions.

Again though. My fault. I'm an idiot cause what else could I possibly expect from these forums.

ATomiX96

tl;dr:
OP sucks ass at the game, plays cancer builds and complains he doesnt get carried enough by sets

you're welcome

Nyladreas

ATomiX96 wrote: »

tl;dr:
OP sucks ass at the game, plays cancer builds and complains he doesnt get carried enough by sets

you're welcome

Wrong. I couldn't care less about losing in a garbage video game. My issue here is balance.

Read it again.

Joy_Division

Nyladreas wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Lol if you can’t pressure a sorc with all that fancy gear then it’s definitely a L2P issue. Bleeds are super deadly to a sorc. Also I hate when people list their weapon damage as some kind of ultimate answer to any other question you could ask about their build or skill level. 4.5k wpn damage = I should be able to beat anyone. I used to complain about mag sorcs constantly, I leveled one some time before Summerset and now I don’t feel the need to complain about them as much even though I’d say I’m only on it about 30% of the time and on stamina the rest. Playing one just helps you separate the perception of “god mode” from skill and you know when someone has been carried by mag sorc skills a little or when they’re just a better player than you. So, I invite you to level a mag sorc and play one for a while, leveling goes pretty fast these days, BiS mag sorc gear is easy to get.

I mean honestly how you can be sure the person just wasn’t a lot better than you? Gear and stats doesn’t mean a thing. You complain that this person was carried by their class and then say that you should have been able to beat them because of have certain gear. Isn’t that pretty ironic?

So your definition of skill is bunny hopping and spamming shields? That's a lot of damn skill man. I wish I could do that. That's literally my only complaint as I didn't lose the fight. It's just very, if not extremely annoying to see someone just bunny hop for an entire minute and a half hoping to be saved by their buddies. He can still dish out a ton of damage if not focused and that's the problem. Any other class in the game can do just 1 of those things at the same time, not both. EDIT: And even if they can, they can only do it for a short time, not for an ENTIRE MINUTE AND A HALF.

MagSorc is my first main and I think you make absolutely no sense. You should run a different class too perhaps? I can switch over to my Sorc and easily kill anything that doesn't wear Shieldbreaker. Stop defending a broken class just because it suits you please.

And yes it's my fault for not wearing Sloads. He did die eventually but It took wayyyyy too long for someone who can still eat low HP targets inbetween shield stacks.

So you won the fight and you’re complaining because they used their defensive tactic to hold you off? I play mag sorc, and I’ve tried every stamina class over the years as well as magblade and magplar. And currently I don’t see mag sorcs as more of an issue than most other classes. I fought a whole team of mag sorcs in BGs yesterday in deathmatch and they won by only a small margin due to the fact that two of our players only got like 2 or 3 kills each. No one was making a peep about mag sorcs being OP prior to Summerset. Shields haven’t changed one bit, now suddenly shields are god mode again? I don’t buy it, I think we just have an influx of new players.

Honestly from the sound of your post it seems like you were just up against a mediocre player who had built for max shields and was spamming to prolong the inevitable. That’s jsut the nature of shields, you can’t change it without restructuring how mag sorcs and shields work from the ground up and that’s unlikely to happen.

Still doesn't make that design right. I find it stupid, lazy, braindead, unfair, "imbalanced", effortless, unskilled, ridiculous <insert a ton of other negative adjectives> yada yada...

Also stop turning the entire topic against me and only me like I'm some sort of egomaniac. My problem isn't that I can't easily eat these builds like tiny AP snacks, but that I don't find the whole idea fair at all towards classes like DK/Templar/Warden. Hell even Stamblades have a harder time escaping most of the time. Especially vs Sorcs and their BS. I admit i chose the title and OP wording poorly.

A High Burst, DPS Class SHOULD NOT EVER BE ABLE TO WITHSTAND INSANE PRESSURE FOR LONG PERIODS OF TIME OR MULTIPLE PEOPLE (if we talk new players) WHILE BEING ABLE TO DEAL FULL DAMAGE FROM THE BACK LINE. PERIOD. It's just as bad as proc sets and zergs. There is a limited counter play but it severely hurts PVP. And new players, completely unfamiliar with this endgame aspect of the game will just get tired after a couple games and leave.

Look how many threads there are about sorcs and listen to players who played since 2014... Everyone will tell you: "yeah sorc ain't what it used to be, but it's still the top class".

Any content in the game is EZ PZ with a sorc compared to ANY class and that's another thing entirely, that i don't want to get into (pve).

Yelling does not make you any more correct.

You are complaining about a fight in which you did not lose. Talk about salty. Your whole argument is: I have 4.5 weapon damage and Master weapons so my opponent should die when I attack them.

If you have that gear and those stats, then you didn't put out nearly as much "insane pressure" as you think you did.

davidj8291

Nyladreas wrote: »

Are you MF-ing serious ZOS?

This is on build with over 4.5k weapon damage too mind you.

This was in NO CP battlegrounds too. Unfortunately i do NOT have video, I cannot record on my current computer.

MagSorcs have been and always will be broken as long as they can have a ward IN PVP that sits higher than 10-12k ALONE. And the only counter for it is Oblivion Damage.
Poll everyone who complains about Sloads, and I bet my left kidney that they are all MagSorc mains.

It’s an easy mode class. Objectively sound and skilled players understand it’s not L2P when talking about MagSorcs. They are broken as a class, especially having access to two other high shields to stack with their Hardened Ward.

Too often do you have a build that can drop 30k Damage in PvP stand there and spam wards and their damage rotation in a 1v1.
They complain now because Sloads is making them have to look at the health bar for once.

davidj8291

And don’t say “time your stuns” about a class that can have infinite Stamina as a MagClass.

Nyladreas

Joy_Division wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Lol if you can’t pressure a sorc with all that fancy gear then it’s definitely a L2P issue. Bleeds are super deadly to a sorc. Also I hate when people list their weapon damage as some kind of ultimate answer to any other question you could ask about their build or skill level. 4.5k wpn damage = I should be able to beat anyone. I used to complain about mag sorcs constantly, I leveled one some time before Summerset and now I don’t feel the need to complain about them as much even though I’d say I’m only on it about 30% of the time and on stamina the rest. Playing one just helps you separate the perception of “god mode” from skill and you know when someone has been carried by mag sorc skills a little or when they’re just a better player than you. So, I invite you to level a mag sorc and play one for a while, leveling goes pretty fast these days, BiS mag sorc gear is easy to get.

I mean honestly how you can be sure the person just wasn’t a lot better than you? Gear and stats doesn’t mean a thing. You complain that this person was carried by their class and then say that you should have been able to beat them because of have certain gear. Isn’t that pretty ironic?

So your definition of skill is bunny hopping and spamming shields? That's a lot of damn skill man. I wish I could do that. That's literally my only complaint as I didn't lose the fight. It's just very, if not extremely annoying to see someone just bunny hop for an entire minute and a half hoping to be saved by their buddies. He can still dish out a ton of damage if not focused and that's the problem. Any other class in the game can do just 1 of those things at the same time, not both. EDIT: And even if they can, they can only do it for a short time, not for an ENTIRE MINUTE AND A HALF.

MagSorc is my first main and I think you make absolutely no sense. You should run a different class too perhaps? I can switch over to my Sorc and easily kill anything that doesn't wear Shieldbreaker. Stop defending a broken class just because it suits you please.

And yes it's my fault for not wearing Sloads. He did die eventually but It took wayyyyy too long for someone who can still eat low HP targets inbetween shield stacks.

So you won the fight and you’re complaining because they used their defensive tactic to hold you off? I play mag sorc, and I’ve tried every stamina class over the years as well as magblade and magplar. And currently I don’t see mag sorcs as more of an issue than most other classes. I fought a whole team of mag sorcs in BGs yesterday in deathmatch and they won by only a small margin due to the fact that two of our players only got like 2 or 3 kills each. No one was making a peep about mag sorcs being OP prior to Summerset. Shields haven’t changed one bit, now suddenly shields are god mode again? I don’t buy it, I think we just have an influx of new players.

Honestly from the sound of your post it seems like you were just up against a mediocre player who had built for max shields and was spamming to prolong the inevitable. That’s jsut the nature of shields, you can’t change it without restructuring how mag sorcs and shields work from the ground up and that’s unlikely to happen.

Still doesn't make that design right. I find it stupid, lazy, braindead, unfair, "imbalanced", effortless, unskilled, ridiculous <insert a ton of other negative adjectives> yada yada...

Also stop turning the entire topic against me and only me like I'm some sort of egomaniac. My problem isn't that I can't easily eat these builds like tiny AP snacks, but that I don't find the whole idea fair at all towards classes like DK/Templar/Warden. Hell even Stamblades have a harder time escaping most of the time. Especially vs Sorcs and their BS. I admit i chose the title and OP wording poorly.

A High Burst, DPS Class SHOULD NOT EVER BE ABLE TO WITHSTAND INSANE PRESSURE FOR LONG PERIODS OF TIME OR MULTIPLE PEOPLE (if we talk new players) WHILE BEING ABLE TO DEAL FULL DAMAGE FROM THE BACK LINE. PERIOD. It's just as bad as proc sets and zergs. There is a limited counter play but it severely hurts PVP. And new players, completely unfamiliar with this endgame aspect of the game will just get tired after a couple games and leave.

Look how many threads there are about sorcs and listen to players who played since 2014... Everyone will tell you: "yeah sorc ain't what it used to be, but it's still the top class".

Any content in the game is EZ PZ with a sorc compared to ANY class and that's another thing entirely, that i don't want to get into (pve).

Yelling does not make you any more correct.

You are complaining about a fight in which you did not lose. Talk about salty. Your whole argument is: I have 4.5 weapon damage and Master weapons so my opponent should die when I attack them.

If you have that gear and those stats, then you didn't put out nearly as much "insane pressure" as you think you did.

Honestly, if the person literally does nothing else but stack shields (no CC, no Damage, No heals, no other buffs) and hops around while getting hit for 6k + 3.5k + 2k + 2k just in dots and LA weaving + direct damage + getting CCd.

There is something horribly wrong. I'm the last person to complain about the amount of stupid crap in the game, but even I get pissed if it's too much and this sorc took the cake.

Once again, what pisses me off is how easy it is for the class to do ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING.

I main a Sorc myself for F's sake.

Aisle9

Nyladreas wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

Gprime31 wrote: »

A good tank can withstand 10+ people hitting it
Hence “tank”

Yes but he can't deal full damage back from the backline while being safe and pampered over there. Then run into the crowd and bunnyhop unharmed all the same time. A tank gets maybe 1 chance with an ult, not an entire set of skills and burst combos.

Let's examine that claim, shall we ?

Battle spirit halves the strength of shields
You lose ~ 4-5k magicka when playing NO-CP

Hardened ward is the main magsorc shield. They don't have any other shield in their class kit.

Harness Magicka is the 2nd shield they can slot, Dampen gives a bigger shield, but at the cost of extra sustain, which is kind of a big deal (we'll get there).

Healing Ward is the 3rd, but that forces you to go Destro/Resto.

In any case the sorc is only getting 1 extra skill from their specific class kit, not a whole set. Everyone has access to harness and healing ward, as opposed to, let's say, a DK, that gets wings (reflect projectiles), hardened armor (damage shield, major ward and resolve, extra healing received), igneous shield (major mending, damage shield), dragon blood (healing + bonus healing regen), or a warden that gets crystal shield (reflect projectiles), Ice fortress (major ward and resolve + 8% damage reduction)...

It's NO-CP so you're not getting anything from Bastion.

You need either Inner Light or Bound Aegis to counter the loss of magicka, since shields only stacks on magicka, ideally both.

Using 3 shields + 2 passive slottable means you can't go necropotence, because you don't have room for a pet.
Using 2 shields + 1 passive slottable + pet means you lose magicka, but you can use necropotence. You get a bit more magicka, but then you'll have to manage the matriarch and double slot it.

NO-CP + Matriarch + Necropotence + Lich + Witchmother's brew = 43k magicka

NO-CP, so no Bastion,
Hardened Ward = 16790/ 2 (battle spirit) = 8395k
Harness Magicka = ~15k (mine was rank III, so I don't have an exact figure)/2 = 7.5k

total of ~16k shield at the cost of 4k magicka (harness) + 2.9k magicka (Hardened) = 7k magicka

Base recovery with 3 recovery glyphs + witchmother's = 2188 (3180 when lich procs, but it requires to be under 15k magicka).

So 2k magicka ever 2s, so effective shields cost = 7k -> 6k when lich procs.

Harness returns 1500 magicka, up to 3 times, when the shield is hit, but only spell damage, so physical damage doesn't count.

The only way to keep this up for 1 minute and half (90s) is by making sure to cast each shield every 4s and heavy attacking in between.

That precludes you from actually attacking, with anything different than heavy attacks, which you can't anyways because your bar is entirely dedicated to your shields.

If you factor rune cage (3k magicka) and Mage's Wrath (2k magicka) that's an extra 3k drain, and it's not enough unless frags procs (which may not, since it doesn't count hardened ward in your backbar).

Also you need to double bar aegis and matriarch (matriarch at least) so you only have 3 remaining slots (rune cage, frags, wrath).

If you don't use necropotence reaching 45k magicka is not feasible (no extra magicka from having a pet active, and no extra magicka from the set), so your shields go from 16k in total to something like ~13k total strength.

If you add a 3rd shield you have to sacrifice magicka, thus making every other shield less effective and increasing the magicka drain.

All of this, ofc, comes at the cost of damage, since you're investing everything you have in recovery (my spell damage is 1.2.k unbuffed), so if you miss your burst, frag doesn't proc, the matriarch dies, you're done for.

If you can't do 13k damage in 4s, with all your fancy gear, there's something wrong with you, not with your opponent.

Either way, keeping up shields + damage skills for 1 and a half minute is not feasible, so the statement is either incorrect or false, since they can only do one or the other, not both at the same time, which is also the reason why shield stacking sorcs bail when they realize they're fighting an opponent capable of pressuring them effectively.

Also, there's the distinct possibility that your opponent noticed you were hitting them with potato damage and started bunny hopping to mock you, in an effort to mine some salt and make you less effective (it worked, it seems).

Hope this clarifies.
Have a nice day.

*edit*
Just for clarification, I main magblade, so I'm not the most experienced magsorc around, fairly sure there are a bunch of people capable of expanding on that.

Why would you waste your time on writing all of this for nothing?

You're not changing my mind. Besides I'm not saying they stack shields and damage simultaneously in the same moment. But rather deal insane damage while being safe behind their team.

I know what I saw and I'm just going to suck it up and move on, since people here clearly can't accept anything and always have their own theories and explanations and visions of everything.

They also ahead and try to mock whoever complains with ridiculous assumptions.

Again though. My fault. I'm an idiot cause what else could I possibly expect from these forums.

Point the ridiculous assumption, please, I tried to be as accurate as possible, but if I'm wrong, please go ahead and correct me.

I "wasted" my time in order to have an honest discussion.

Not a nice one.
Not a pleasant one.
Not one where I agree with you.

I tried to give as much information as possible to make my point clear.

If you can't appreciate that, and would rather had just a "L2P", ok.

Here you go:

L2P.

*edt*
Any class with access to a burst can deal insane damage while safe behind their team. The sorc's burst is actually heavily dependent on a frag proc, which may or may not happen, as opposed to Assassin's Will which will always proc after 5 LA.

So, I guess you are right, except it's not an imbalance, it's perfectly fine.

Drummerx04

I feel like this guy has never fought Kodi on his stam warden build... something like 4k heals/second with a 30k AoE burst while tanking 5 people.

So either you want sorcs to be unable to kill things but survive or be able to kill things but be so squishy that they are just walking AP? Got it.

I mean every other class in stam/mag can pretty much do huge burst damage while being tanky as hell as well, but obviously sorcs are OP.

Nyladreas

Aisle9 wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

Gprime31 wrote: »

A good tank can withstand 10+ people hitting it
Hence “tank”

Yes but he can't deal full damage back from the backline while being safe and pampered over there. Then run into the crowd and bunnyhop unharmed all the same time. A tank gets maybe 1 chance with an ult, not an entire set of skills and burst combos.

Let's examine that claim, shall we ?

Battle spirit halves the strength of shields
You lose ~ 4-5k magicka when playing NO-CP

Hardened ward is the main magsorc shield. They don't have any other shield in their class kit.

Harness Magicka is the 2nd shield they can slot, Dampen gives a bigger shield, but at the cost of extra sustain, which is kind of a big deal (we'll get there).

Healing Ward is the 3rd, but that forces you to go Destro/Resto.

In any case the sorc is only getting 1 extra skill from their specific class kit, not a whole set. Everyone has access to harness and healing ward, as opposed to, let's say, a DK, that gets wings (reflect projectiles), hardened armor (damage shield, major ward and resolve, extra healing received), igneous shield (major mending, damage shield), dragon blood (healing + bonus healing regen), or a warden that gets crystal shield (reflect projectiles), Ice fortress (major ward and resolve + 8% damage reduction)...

It's NO-CP so you're not getting anything from Bastion.

You need either Inner Light or Bound Aegis to counter the loss of magicka, since shields only stacks on magicka, ideally both.

Using 3 shields + 2 passive slottable means you can't go necropotence, because you don't have room for a pet.
Using 2 shields + 1 passive slottable + pet means you lose magicka, but you can use necropotence. You get a bit more magicka, but then you'll have to manage the matriarch and double slot it.

NO-CP + Matriarch + Necropotence + Lich + Witchmother's brew = 43k magicka

NO-CP, so no Bastion,
Hardened Ward = 16790/ 2 (battle spirit) = 8395k
Harness Magicka = ~15k (mine was rank III, so I don't have an exact figure)/2 = 7.5k

total of ~16k shield at the cost of 4k magicka (harness) + 2.9k magicka (Hardened) = 7k magicka

Base recovery with 3 recovery glyphs + witchmother's = 2188 (3180 when lich procs, but it requires to be under 15k magicka).

So 2k magicka ever 2s, so effective shields cost = 7k -> 6k when lich procs.

Harness returns 1500 magicka, up to 3 times, when the shield is hit, but only spell damage, so physical damage doesn't count.

The only way to keep this up for 1 minute and half (90s) is by making sure to cast each shield every 4s and heavy attacking in between.

That precludes you from actually attacking, with anything different than heavy attacks, which you can't anyways because your bar is entirely dedicated to your shields.

If you factor rune cage (3k magicka) and Mage's Wrath (2k magicka) that's an extra 3k drain, and it's not enough unless frags procs (which may not, since it doesn't count hardened ward in your backbar).

Also you need to double bar aegis and matriarch (matriarch at least) so you only have 3 remaining slots (rune cage, frags, wrath).

If you don't use necropotence reaching 45k magicka is not feasible (no extra magicka from having a pet active, and no extra magicka from the set), so your shields go from 16k in total to something like ~13k total strength.

If you add a 3rd shield you have to sacrifice magicka, thus making every other shield less effective and increasing the magicka drain.

All of this, ofc, comes at the cost of damage, since you're investing everything you have in recovery (my spell damage is 1.2.k unbuffed), so if you miss your burst, frag doesn't proc, the matriarch dies, you're done for.

If you can't do 13k damage in 4s, with all your fancy gear, there's something wrong with you, not with your opponent.

Either way, keeping up shields + damage skills for 1 and a half minute is not feasible, so the statement is either incorrect or false, since they can only do one or the other, not both at the same time, which is also the reason why shield stacking sorcs bail when they realize they're fighting an opponent capable of pressuring them effectively.

Also, there's the distinct possibility that your opponent noticed you were hitting them with potato damage and started bunny hopping to mock you, in an effort to mine some salt and make you less effective (it worked, it seems).

Hope this clarifies.
Have a nice day.

*edit*
Just for clarification, I main magblade, so I'm not the most experienced magsorc around, fairly sure there are a bunch of people capable of expanding on that.

Why would you waste your time on writing all of this for nothing?

You're not changing my mind. Besides I'm not saying they stack shields and damage simultaneously in the same moment. But rather deal insane damage while being safe behind their team.

I know what I saw and I'm just going to suck it up and move on, since people here clearly can't accept anything and always have their own theories and explanations and visions of everything.

They also ahead and try to mock whoever complains with ridiculous assumptions.

Again though. My fault. I'm an idiot cause what else could I possibly expect from these forums.

Point the ridiculous assumption, please, I tried to be as accurate as possible, but if I'm wrong, please go ahead and correct me.

I "wasted" my time in order to have an honest discussion.

Not a nice one.
Not a pleasant one.
Not one where I agree with you.

I tried to give as much information as possible to make my point clear.

If you can't appreciate that, and would rather had just a "L2P", ok.

Here you go:

L2P.

How many times do I have to say I main a Sorc myself? I don't know if some people just hallucinate or don't understand.

I'll L2P in time. Be it a year or ten, idc. My point is not egocentric from loss or such. It's about disagreeing with the design entirely.

Aisle9

davidj8291 wrote: »

[..]MagSorcs have been and always will be broken as long as they can have a ward IN PVP that sits higher than 10-12k ALONE. [..]

Which is not happening in NO-CP.

You need points in Bastion and extra magicka to get there.

Nyladreas

Aisle9 wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

Gprime31 wrote: »

A good tank can withstand 10+ people hitting it
Hence “tank”

Yes but he can't deal full damage back from the backline while being safe and pampered over there. Then run into the crowd and bunnyhop unharmed all the same time. A tank gets maybe 1 chance with an ult, not an entire set of skills and burst combos.

Let's examine that claim, shall we ?

Battle spirit halves the strength of shields
You lose ~ 4-5k magicka when playing NO-CP

Hardened ward is the main magsorc shield. They don't have any other shield in their class kit.

Harness Magicka is the 2nd shield they can slot, Dampen gives a bigger shield, but at the cost of extra sustain, which is kind of a big deal (we'll get there).

Healing Ward is the 3rd, but that forces you to go Destro/Resto.

In any case the sorc is only getting 1 extra skill from their specific class kit, not a whole set. Everyone has access to harness and healing ward, as opposed to, let's say, a DK, that gets wings (reflect projectiles), hardened armor (damage shield, major ward and resolve, extra healing received), igneous shield (major mending, damage shield), dragon blood (healing + bonus healing regen), or a warden that gets crystal shield (reflect projectiles), Ice fortress (major ward and resolve + 8% damage reduction)...

It's NO-CP so you're not getting anything from Bastion.

You need either Inner Light or Bound Aegis to counter the loss of magicka, since shields only stacks on magicka, ideally both.

Using 3 shields + 2 passive slottable means you can't go necropotence, because you don't have room for a pet.
Using 2 shields + 1 passive slottable + pet means you lose magicka, but you can use necropotence. You get a bit more magicka, but then you'll have to manage the matriarch and double slot it.

NO-CP + Matriarch + Necropotence + Lich + Witchmother's brew = 43k magicka

NO-CP, so no Bastion,
Hardened Ward = 16790/ 2 (battle spirit) = 8395k
Harness Magicka = ~15k (mine was rank III, so I don't have an exact figure)/2 = 7.5k

total of ~16k shield at the cost of 4k magicka (harness) + 2.9k magicka (Hardened) = 7k magicka

Base recovery with 3 recovery glyphs + witchmother's = 2188 (3180 when lich procs, but it requires to be under 15k magicka).

So 2k magicka ever 2s, so effective shields cost = 7k -> 6k when lich procs.

Harness returns 1500 magicka, up to 3 times, when the shield is hit, but only spell damage, so physical damage doesn't count.

The only way to keep this up for 1 minute and half (90s) is by making sure to cast each shield every 4s and heavy attacking in between.

That precludes you from actually attacking, with anything different than heavy attacks, which you can't anyways because your bar is entirely dedicated to your shields.

If you factor rune cage (3k magicka) and Mage's Wrath (2k magicka) that's an extra 3k drain, and it's not enough unless frags procs (which may not, since it doesn't count hardened ward in your backbar).

Also you need to double bar aegis and matriarch (matriarch at least) so you only have 3 remaining slots (rune cage, frags, wrath).

If you don't use necropotence reaching 45k magicka is not feasible (no extra magicka from having a pet active, and no extra magicka from the set), so your shields go from 16k in total to something like ~13k total strength.

If you add a 3rd shield you have to sacrifice magicka, thus making every other shield less effective and increasing the magicka drain.

All of this, ofc, comes at the cost of damage, since you're investing everything you have in recovery (my spell damage is 1.2.k unbuffed), so if you miss your burst, frag doesn't proc, the matriarch dies, you're done for.

If you can't do 13k damage in 4s, with all your fancy gear, there's something wrong with you, not with your opponent.

Either way, keeping up shields + damage skills for 1 and a half minute is not feasible, so the statement is either incorrect or false, since they can only do one or the other, not both at the same time, which is also the reason why shield stacking sorcs bail when they realize they're fighting an opponent capable of pressuring them effectively.

Also, there's the distinct possibility that your opponent noticed you were hitting them with potato damage and started bunny hopping to mock you, in an effort to mine some salt and make you less effective (it worked, it seems).

Hope this clarifies.
Have a nice day.

*edit*
Just for clarification, I main magblade, so I'm not the most experienced magsorc around, fairly sure there are a bunch of people capable of expanding on that.

Why would you waste your time on writing all of this for nothing?

You're not changing my mind. Besides I'm not saying they stack shields and damage simultaneously in the same moment. But rather deal insane damage while being safe behind their team.

I know what I saw and I'm just going to suck it up and move on, since people here clearly can't accept anything and always have their own theories and explanations and visions of everything.

They also ahead and try to mock whoever complains with ridiculous assumptions.

Again though. My fault. I'm an idiot cause what else could I possibly expect from these forums.

Point the ridiculous assumption, please, I tried to be as accurate as possible, but if I'm wrong, please go ahead and correct me.

I "wasted" my time in order to have an honest discussion.

Not a nice one.
Not a pleasant one.
Not one where I agree with you.

I tried to give as much information as possible to make my point clear.

If you can't appreciate that, and would rather had just a "L2P", ok.

Here you go:

L2P.

*edt*
Any class with access to a burst can deal insane damage while safe behind their team. The sorc's burst is actually heavily dependent on a frag proc, which may or may not happen, as opposed to Assassin's Will which will always proc after 5 LA.

So, I guess you are right, except it's not an imbalance, it's perfectly fine.

Any class can, of course. I can hit 17-21k snipes on any class too. But I die in 2 hits. Sorc runs around (if procs occur) dishing out the same amounts of damage in a combo never worried about having to be scared shitless about being noticed.

Nyladreas

Joy_Division wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Lol if you can’t pressure a sorc with all that fancy gear then it’s definitely a L2P issue. Bleeds are super deadly to a sorc. Also I hate when people list their weapon damage as some kind of ultimate answer to any other question you could ask about their build or skill level. 4.5k wpn damage = I should be able to beat anyone. I used to complain about mag sorcs constantly, I leveled one some time before Summerset and now I don’t feel the need to complain about them as much even though I’d say I’m only on it about 30% of the time and on stamina the rest. Playing one just helps you separate the perception of “god mode” from skill and you know when someone has been carried by mag sorc skills a little or when they’re just a better player than you. So, I invite you to level a mag sorc and play one for a while, leveling goes pretty fast these days, BiS mag sorc gear is easy to get.

I mean honestly how you can be sure the person just wasn’t a lot better than you? Gear and stats doesn’t mean a thing. You complain that this person was carried by their class and then say that you should have been able to beat them because of have certain gear. Isn’t that pretty ironic?

So your definition of skill is bunny hopping and spamming shields? That's a lot of damn skill man. I wish I could do that. That's literally my only complaint as I didn't lose the fight. It's just very, if not extremely annoying to see someone just bunny hop for an entire minute and a half hoping to be saved by their buddies. He can still dish out a ton of damage if not focused and that's the problem. Any other class in the game can do just 1 of those things at the same time, not both. EDIT: And even if they can, they can only do it for a short time, not for an ENTIRE MINUTE AND A HALF.

MagSorc is my first main and I think you make absolutely no sense. You should run a different class too perhaps? I can switch over to my Sorc and easily kill anything that doesn't wear Shieldbreaker. Stop defending a broken class just because it suits you please.

And yes it's my fault for not wearing Sloads. He did die eventually but It took wayyyyy too long for someone who can still eat low HP targets inbetween shield stacks.

So you won the fight and you’re complaining because they used their defensive tactic to hold you off? I play mag sorc, and I’ve tried every stamina class over the years as well as magblade and magplar. And currently I don’t see mag sorcs as more of an issue than most other classes. I fought a whole team of mag sorcs in BGs yesterday in deathmatch and they won by only a small margin due to the fact that two of our players only got like 2 or 3 kills each. No one was making a peep about mag sorcs being OP prior to Summerset. Shields haven’t changed one bit, now suddenly shields are god mode again? I don’t buy it, I think we just have an influx of new players.

Honestly from the sound of your post it seems like you were just up against a mediocre player who had built for max shields and was spamming to prolong the inevitable. That’s jsut the nature of shields, you can’t change it without restructuring how mag sorcs and shields work from the ground up and that’s unlikely to happen.

Still doesn't make that design right. I find it stupid, lazy, braindead, unfair, "imbalanced", effortless, unskilled, ridiculous <insert a ton of other negative adjectives> yada yada...

Also stop turning the entire topic against me and only me like I'm some sort of egomaniac. My problem isn't that I can't easily eat these builds like tiny AP snacks, but that I don't find the whole idea fair at all towards classes like DK/Templar/Warden. Hell even Stamblades have a harder time escaping most of the time. Especially vs Sorcs and their BS. I admit i chose the title and OP wording poorly.

A High Burst, DPS Class SHOULD NOT EVER BE ABLE TO WITHSTAND INSANE PRESSURE FOR LONG PERIODS OF TIME OR MULTIPLE PEOPLE (if we talk new players) WHILE BEING ABLE TO DEAL FULL DAMAGE FROM THE BACK LINE. PERIOD. It's just as bad as proc sets and zergs. There is a limited counter play but it severely hurts PVP. And new players, completely unfamiliar with this endgame aspect of the game will just get tired after a couple games and leave.

Look how many threads there are about sorcs and listen to players who played since 2014... Everyone will tell you: "yeah sorc ain't what it used to be, but it's still the top class".

Any content in the game is EZ PZ with a sorc compared to ANY class and that's another thing entirely, that i don't want to get into (pve).

Yelling does not make you any more correct.

You are complaining about a fight in which you did not lose. Talk about salty. Your whole argument is: I have 4.5 weapon damage and Master weapons so my opponent should die when I attack them.

If you have that gear and those stats, then you didn't put out nearly as much "insane pressure" as you think you did.

Yelling?

rileynotzb14_ESO

Lol

Aisle9

Nyladreas wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

Gprime31 wrote: »

A good tank can withstand 10+ people hitting it
Hence “tank”

Yes but he can't deal full damage back from the backline while being safe and pampered over there. Then run into the crowd and bunnyhop unharmed all the same time. A tank gets maybe 1 chance with an ult, not an entire set of skills and burst combos.

Let's examine that claim, shall we ?

Battle spirit halves the strength of shields
You lose ~ 4-5k magicka when playing NO-CP

Hardened ward is the main magsorc shield. They don't have any other shield in their class kit.

Harness Magicka is the 2nd shield they can slot, Dampen gives a bigger shield, but at the cost of extra sustain, which is kind of a big deal (we'll get there).

Healing Ward is the 3rd, but that forces you to go Destro/Resto.

In any case the sorc is only getting 1 extra skill from their specific class kit, not a whole set. Everyone has access to harness and healing ward, as opposed to, let's say, a DK, that gets wings (reflect projectiles), hardened armor (damage shield, major ward and resolve, extra healing received), igneous shield (major mending, damage shield), dragon blood (healing + bonus healing regen), or a warden that gets crystal shield (reflect projectiles), Ice fortress (major ward and resolve + 8% damage reduction)...

It's NO-CP so you're not getting anything from Bastion.

You need either Inner Light or Bound Aegis to counter the loss of magicka, since shields only stacks on magicka, ideally both.

Using 3 shields + 2 passive slottable means you can't go necropotence, because you don't have room for a pet.
Using 2 shields + 1 passive slottable + pet means you lose magicka, but you can use necropotence. You get a bit more magicka, but then you'll have to manage the matriarch and double slot it.

NO-CP + Matriarch + Necropotence + Lich + Witchmother's brew = 43k magicka

NO-CP, so no Bastion,
Hardened Ward = 16790/ 2 (battle spirit) = 8395k
Harness Magicka = ~15k (mine was rank III, so I don't have an exact figure)/2 = 7.5k

total of ~16k shield at the cost of 4k magicka (harness) + 2.9k magicka (Hardened) = 7k magicka

Base recovery with 3 recovery glyphs + witchmother's = 2188 (3180 when lich procs, but it requires to be under 15k magicka).

So 2k magicka ever 2s, so effective shields cost = 7k -> 6k when lich procs.

Harness returns 1500 magicka, up to 3 times, when the shield is hit, but only spell damage, so physical damage doesn't count.

The only way to keep this up for 1 minute and half (90s) is by making sure to cast each shield every 4s and heavy attacking in between.

That precludes you from actually attacking, with anything different than heavy attacks, which you can't anyways because your bar is entirely dedicated to your shields.

If you factor rune cage (3k magicka) and Mage's Wrath (2k magicka) that's an extra 3k drain, and it's not enough unless frags procs (which may not, since it doesn't count hardened ward in your backbar).

Also you need to double bar aegis and matriarch (matriarch at least) so you only have 3 remaining slots (rune cage, frags, wrath).

If you don't use necropotence reaching 45k magicka is not feasible (no extra magicka from having a pet active, and no extra magicka from the set), so your shields go from 16k in total to something like ~13k total strength.

If you add a 3rd shield you have to sacrifice magicka, thus making every other shield less effective and increasing the magicka drain.

All of this, ofc, comes at the cost of damage, since you're investing everything you have in recovery (my spell damage is 1.2.k unbuffed), so if you miss your burst, frag doesn't proc, the matriarch dies, you're done for.

If you can't do 13k damage in 4s, with all your fancy gear, there's something wrong with you, not with your opponent.

Either way, keeping up shields + damage skills for 1 and a half minute is not feasible, so the statement is either incorrect or false, since they can only do one or the other, not both at the same time, which is also the reason why shield stacking sorcs bail when they realize they're fighting an opponent capable of pressuring them effectively.

Also, there's the distinct possibility that your opponent noticed you were hitting them with potato damage and started bunny hopping to mock you, in an effort to mine some salt and make you less effective (it worked, it seems).

Hope this clarifies.
Have a nice day.

*edit*
Just for clarification, I main magblade, so I'm not the most experienced magsorc around, fairly sure there are a bunch of people capable of expanding on that.

Why would you waste your time on writing all of this for nothing?

You're not changing my mind. Besides I'm not saying they stack shields and damage simultaneously in the same moment. But rather deal insane damage while being safe behind their team.

I know what I saw and I'm just going to suck it up and move on, since people here clearly can't accept anything and always have their own theories and explanations and visions of everything.

They also ahead and try to mock whoever complains with ridiculous assumptions.

Again though. My fault. I'm an idiot cause what else could I possibly expect from these forums.

Point the ridiculous assumption, please, I tried to be as accurate as possible, but if I'm wrong, please go ahead and correct me.

I "wasted" my time in order to have an honest discussion.

Not a nice one.
Not a pleasant one.
Not one where I agree with you.

I tried to give as much information as possible to make my point clear.

If you can't appreciate that, and would rather had just a "L2P", ok.

Here you go:

L2P.

How many times do I have to say I main a Sorc myself? I don't know if some people just hallucinate or don't understand.

I'll L2P in time. Be it a year or ten, idc. My point is not egocentric from loss or such. It's about disagreeing with the design entirely.

Can't connect the fact that you play a magsorc with your objection with the information I gave.

If someone can do more than you can with a specific kit/class/build, maybe, just maybe, it may have something to do with their skill/proficiency rather than an imbalance with the class ? Just saying.

Nyladreas wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

Gprime31 wrote: »

A good tank can withstand 10+ people hitting it
Hence “tank”

Yes but he can't deal full damage back from the backline while being safe and pampered over there. Then run into the crowd and bunnyhop unharmed all the same time. A tank gets maybe 1 chance with an ult, not an entire set of skills and burst combos.

Let's examine that claim, shall we ?

Battle spirit halves the strength of shields
You lose ~ 4-5k magicka when playing NO-CP

Hardened ward is the main magsorc shield. They don't have any other shield in their class kit.

Harness Magicka is the 2nd shield they can slot, Dampen gives a bigger shield, but at the cost of extra sustain, which is kind of a big deal (we'll get there).

Healing Ward is the 3rd, but that forces you to go Destro/Resto.

In any case the sorc is only getting 1 extra skill from their specific class kit, not a whole set. Everyone has access to harness and healing ward, as opposed to, let's say, a DK, that gets wings (reflect projectiles), hardened armor (damage shield, major ward and resolve, extra healing received), igneous shield (major mending, damage shield), dragon blood (healing + bonus healing regen), or a warden that gets crystal shield (reflect projectiles), Ice fortress (major ward and resolve + 8% damage reduction)...

It's NO-CP so you're not getting anything from Bastion.

You need either Inner Light or Bound Aegis to counter the loss of magicka, since shields only stacks on magicka, ideally both.

Using 3 shields + 2 passive slottable means you can't go necropotence, because you don't have room for a pet.
Using 2 shields + 1 passive slottable + pet means you lose magicka, but you can use necropotence. You get a bit more magicka, but then you'll have to manage the matriarch and double slot it.

NO-CP + Matriarch + Necropotence + Lich + Witchmother's brew = 43k magicka

NO-CP, so no Bastion,
Hardened Ward = 16790/ 2 (battle spirit) = 8395k
Harness Magicka = ~15k (mine was rank III, so I don't have an exact figure)/2 = 7.5k

total of ~16k shield at the cost of 4k magicka (harness) + 2.9k magicka (Hardened) = 7k magicka

Base recovery with 3 recovery glyphs + witchmother's = 2188 (3180 when lich procs, but it requires to be under 15k magicka).

So 2k magicka ever 2s, so effective shields cost = 7k -> 6k when lich procs.

Harness returns 1500 magicka, up to 3 times, when the shield is hit, but only spell damage, so physical damage doesn't count.

The only way to keep this up for 1 minute and half (90s) is by making sure to cast each shield every 4s and heavy attacking in between.

That precludes you from actually attacking, with anything different than heavy attacks, which you can't anyways because your bar is entirely dedicated to your shields.

If you factor rune cage (3k magicka) and Mage's Wrath (2k magicka) that's an extra 3k drain, and it's not enough unless frags procs (which may not, since it doesn't count hardened ward in your backbar).

Also you need to double bar aegis and matriarch (matriarch at least) so you only have 3 remaining slots (rune cage, frags, wrath).

If you don't use necropotence reaching 45k magicka is not feasible (no extra magicka from having a pet active, and no extra magicka from the set), so your shields go from 16k in total to something like ~13k total strength.

If you add a 3rd shield you have to sacrifice magicka, thus making every other shield less effective and increasing the magicka drain.

All of this, ofc, comes at the cost of damage, since you're investing everything you have in recovery (my spell damage is 1.2.k unbuffed), so if you miss your burst, frag doesn't proc, the matriarch dies, you're done for.

If you can't do 13k damage in 4s, with all your fancy gear, there's something wrong with you, not with your opponent.

Either way, keeping up shields + damage skills for 1 and a half minute is not feasible, so the statement is either incorrect or false, since they can only do one or the other, not both at the same time, which is also the reason why shield stacking sorcs bail when they realize they're fighting an opponent capable of pressuring them effectively.

Also, there's the distinct possibility that your opponent noticed you were hitting them with potato damage and started bunny hopping to mock you, in an effort to mine some salt and make you less effective (it worked, it seems).

Hope this clarifies.
Have a nice day.

*edit*
Just for clarification, I main magblade, so I'm not the most experienced magsorc around, fairly sure there are a bunch of people capable of expanding on that.

Why would you waste your time on writing all of this for nothing?

You're not changing my mind. Besides I'm not saying they stack shields and damage simultaneously in the same moment. But rather deal insane damage while being safe behind their team.

I know what I saw and I'm just going to suck it up and move on, since people here clearly can't accept anything and always have their own theories and explanations and visions of everything.

They also ahead and try to mock whoever complains with ridiculous assumptions.

Again though. My fault. I'm an idiot cause what else could I possibly expect from these forums.

Point the ridiculous assumption, please, I tried to be as accurate as possible, but if I'm wrong, please go ahead and correct me.

I "wasted" my time in order to have an honest discussion.

Not a nice one.
Not a pleasant one.
Not one where I agree with you.

I tried to give as much information as possible to make my point clear.

If you can't appreciate that, and would rather had just a "L2P", ok.

Here you go:

L2P.

*edt*
Any class with access to a burst can deal insane damage while safe behind their team. The sorc's burst is actually heavily dependent on a frag proc, which may or may not happen, as opposed to Assassin's Will which will always proc after 5 LA.

So, I guess you are right, except it's not an imbalance, it's perfectly fine.

Any class can, of course. I can hit 17-21k snipes on any class too. But I die in 2 hits. Sorc runs around (if procs occur) dishing out the same amounts of damage in a combo never worried about having to be scared shitless about being noticed.

I can burst a 25k HP player with my magblade in heavy armor (no sload). It's not about how much a single skill does, a burst is a combination (combo) of high damage skills in a very short amount of time, usually combined with an ultimate and a CC.

Sorcs have to be very careful about how they run around because shields only last 6 to 10s, cost a *** of magicka and they are not as big as people seem to think (in NO-CP).

By comparison a NB has a very powerful, very cheap, single target ultimate with debuffs and a CC included, plus the means to generate enough ultimate to use very frequently, a reliable proc that does more damage than frags, cloak, mass hysteria... If it's magicka, access to shields as well...

So, again, personal skill, and experience with the class. Wanna nerf that ?

Nyladreas wrote: »

Yelling?

Writing in ALL CAPS is usually associated with a loud tone of voice in forums and chatrooms.

Minalan

Let me get this straight. OP fought a sorc. You WON. And you’re complaining about it?

I killed a Sorc. NERF SORC! It should be 10 times easier.

Please post your IGN so I can come ‘Bunny hop’ in your face...

Druid40

Simple fix. Critical damage against damage shields and blocking. Also, give sorcs back their shield durations. Do damage shields benefit from straight up damage reduction (not resistances)? If so, that should stop.

Nyladreas

Minalan wrote: »

Let me get this straight. OP fought a sorc. You WON. And you’re complaining about it?

I killed a Sorc. NERF SORC! It should be 10 times easier.

Please post your IGN so I can come ‘Bunny hop’ in your face...

Because I don't care about winning or losing. I'm trying to address the ridiculous design lol. People just don't get it. This age of narcissism makes everyone blind to the bigger picture.

Vaoh

Vapirko wrote: »

Lol if you can’t pressure a sorc with all that fancy gear then it’s definitely a L2P issue. Bleeds are super deadly to a sorc. Also I hate when people list their weapon damage as some kind of ultimate answer to any other question you could ask about their build or skill level. 4.5k wpn damage = I should be able to beat anyone. I used to complain about mag sorcs constantly, I leveled one some time before Summerset and now I don’t feel the need to complain about them as much even though I’d say I’m only on it about 30% of the time and on stamina the rest. Playing one just helps you separate the perception of “god mode” from skill and you know when someone has been carried by mag sorc skills a little or when they’re just a better player than you. So, I invite you to level a mag sorc and play one for a while, leveling goes pretty fast these days, BiS mag sorc gear is easy to get.

I mean honestly how you can be sure the person just wasn’t a lot better than you? Gear and stats doesn’t mean a thing. You complain that this person was carried by their class and then say that you should have been able to beat them because of have certain gear. Isn’t that pretty ironic?

^^^

Druid40

Can you all not vent your anonymous frustrations on this person? Remember, this is a game and they have not done anything to any of you.

Joy_Division

Nyladreas wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Lol if you can’t pressure a sorc with all that fancy gear then it’s definitely a L2P issue. Bleeds are super deadly to a sorc. Also I hate when people list their weapon damage as some kind of ultimate answer to any other question you could ask about their build or skill level. 4.5k wpn damage = I should be able to beat anyone. I used to complain about mag sorcs constantly, I leveled one some time before Summerset and now I don’t feel the need to complain about them as much even though I’d say I’m only on it about 30% of the time and on stamina the rest. Playing one just helps you separate the perception of “god mode” from skill and you know when someone has been carried by mag sorc skills a little or when they’re just a better player than you. So, I invite you to level a mag sorc and play one for a while, leveling goes pretty fast these days, BiS mag sorc gear is easy to get.

I mean honestly how you can be sure the person just wasn’t a lot better than you? Gear and stats doesn’t mean a thing. You complain that this person was carried by their class and then say that you should have been able to beat them because of have certain gear. Isn’t that pretty ironic?

So your definition of skill is bunny hopping and spamming shields? That's a lot of damn skill man. I wish I could do that. That's literally my only complaint as I didn't lose the fight. It's just very, if not extremely annoying to see someone just bunny hop for an entire minute and a half hoping to be saved by their buddies. He can still dish out a ton of damage if not focused and that's the problem. Any other class in the game can do just 1 of those things at the same time, not both. EDIT: And even if they can, they can only do it for a short time, not for an ENTIRE MINUTE AND A HALF.

MagSorc is my first main and I think you make absolutely no sense. You should run a different class too perhaps? I can switch over to my Sorc and easily kill anything that doesn't wear Shieldbreaker. Stop defending a broken class just because it suits you please.

And yes it's my fault for not wearing Sloads. He did die eventually but It took wayyyyy too long for someone who can still eat low HP targets inbetween shield stacks.

So you won the fight and you’re complaining because they used their defensive tactic to hold you off? I play mag sorc, and I’ve tried every stamina class over the years as well as magblade and magplar. And currently I don’t see mag sorcs as more of an issue than most other classes. I fought a whole team of mag sorcs in BGs yesterday in deathmatch and they won by only a small margin due to the fact that two of our players only got like 2 or 3 kills each. No one was making a peep about mag sorcs being OP prior to Summerset. Shields haven’t changed one bit, now suddenly shields are god mode again? I don’t buy it, I think we just have an influx of new players.

Honestly from the sound of your post it seems like you were just up against a mediocre player who had built for max shields and was spamming to prolong the inevitable. That’s jsut the nature of shields, you can’t change it without restructuring how mag sorcs and shields work from the ground up and that’s unlikely to happen.

Still doesn't make that design right. I find it stupid, lazy, braindead, unfair, "imbalanced", effortless, unskilled, ridiculous <insert a ton of other negative adjectives> yada yada...

Also stop turning the entire topic against me and only me like I'm some sort of egomaniac. My problem isn't that I can't easily eat these builds like tiny AP snacks, but that I don't find the whole idea fair at all towards classes like DK/Templar/Warden. Hell even Stamblades have a harder time escaping most of the time. Especially vs Sorcs and their BS. I admit i chose the title and OP wording poorly.

A High Burst, DPS Class SHOULD NOT EVER BE ABLE TO WITHSTAND INSANE PRESSURE FOR LONG PERIODS OF TIME OR MULTIPLE PEOPLE (if we talk new players) WHILE BEING ABLE TO DEAL FULL DAMAGE FROM THE BACK LINE. PERIOD. It's just as bad as proc sets and zergs. There is a limited counter play but it severely hurts PVP. And new players, completely unfamiliar with this endgame aspect of the game will just get tired after a couple games and leave.

Look how many threads there are about sorcs and listen to players who played since 2014... Everyone will tell you: "yeah sorc ain't what it used to be, but it's still the top class".

Any content in the game is EZ PZ with a sorc compared to ANY class and that's another thing entirely, that i don't want to get into (pve).

Yelling does not make you any more correct.

You are complaining about a fight in which you did not lose. Talk about salty. Your whole argument is: I have 4.5 weapon damage and Master weapons so my opponent should die when I attack them.

If you have that gear and those stats, then you didn't put out nearly as much "insane pressure" as you think you did.

Honestly, if the person literally does nothing else but stack shields (no CC, no Damage, No heals, no other buffs) and hops around while getting hit for 6k + 3.5k + 2k + 2k just in dots and LA weaving + direct damage + getting CCd.

There is something horribly wrong. I'm the last person to complain about the amount of stupid crap in the game, but even I get pissed if it's too much and this sorc took the cake.

Once again, what pisses me off is how easy it is for the class to do ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING.

I main a Sorc myself for F's sake.

If you are doing what you claim, constantly putting in all those Dots, weaving in attacks and abilities, and CC'ing, then the sorcerer (or any player for that matter) is going to die quick, any sorcerer. no amount of shielding in a single global cooldown is going to withstand that. So, it's apparent you aren't doing that. Dot's not being kept up, not CCing every 7 seconds, you are getting LoSed, you are getting Cc'ed / pressured by the sorcerer (i.e., L2P issues). You want everyone to believe you are doing nothing but damaging the sorcerer every second for a minute plus whereas the sorcerer is literally doing nothing to you. all without a video. Is used car salesman your day job by chance?

And still you're "pissed off" yelling about a class that can do "ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING" (apparently not, since the almighty do-everything sorcerer could not kill you).

There are mechanics I do not like about sorcerers, but your histrionics is what prevents any reasonable discussion about them from taking place.

Aisle9

Druid40 wrote: »

Simple fix. Critical damage against damage shields and blocking. Also, give sorcs back their shield durations. Do damage shields benefit from straight up damage reduction (not resistances)? If so, that should stop.

Shields are not crittable.

Druid40 wrote: »

Can you all not vent your anonymous frustrations on this person? Remember, this is a game and they have not done anything to any of you.

Someone makes an argument.
The argument gets challenged.
If the argument can't stand up to scrutiny, the argument is not good enough.

This counts double if it's an argument for removing someone else's resources in a competitive setting (PvP).

No venting here, carry on.

On a side note, "You are not going to change my mind, no matter what you say" is on itself a claim I can't respect.

Druid40

Aisle9 wrote: »

Druid40 wrote: »

Simple fix. Critical damage against damage shields and blocking. Also, give sorcs back their shield durations. Do damage shields benefit from straight up damage reduction (not resistances)? If so, that should stop.

Shields are not crittable.

Hence, the "fix" part.

Aisle9

Druid40 wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

Druid40 wrote: »

Simple fix. Critical damage against damage shields and blocking. Also, give sorcs back their shield durations. Do damage shields benefit from straight up damage reduction (not resistances)? If so, that should stop.

Shields are not crittable.

Hence, the "fix" part.

my mistake, I misunderstood

Druid40

Aisle9 wrote: »

Druid40 wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

Druid40 wrote: »

Simple fix. Critical damage against damage shields and blocking. Also, give sorcs back their shield durations. Do damage shields benefit from straight up damage reduction (not resistances)? If so, that should stop.

Shields are not crittable.

Hence, the "fix" part.

my mistake, I misunderstood

All good. I could have worded it less tersely.

Luthivar

Nyladreas wrote: »

Are you MF-ing serious ZOS?

Aaand attention is gone. Please behave like an adult if you want your opinion to be taken serious.

Minalan

Druid40 wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

Druid40 wrote: »

Simple fix. Critical damage against damage shields and blocking. Also, give sorcs back their shield durations. Do damage shields benefit from straight up damage reduction (not resistances)? If so, that should stop.

Shields are not crittable.

Hence, the "fix" part.

I’m game for critable shields, but you’d also need to let shields crit (which they can’t).

But then I’m sure someone would cry about Sorcs running around with 50-60K in critable shields, even though they just asked for it and are just terrible at math.