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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8098811/#Comment_8098811
Sload's - countering the purge argument
glavius
✭✭✭✭✭
Effecient purge - removes 2 negative effects, reduces the duration of further negative effects for 6 seconds. Cost: 5130 magicka.
We need to look closer on this abilitys mechanics, to understand how it works: the first part is quite simple: It simply removes the 2 negative effects (dots or debuffs) from you that were first applied.
In case of my nightblade attacking you, that will almost always be major fracture from surprise attack, and minor maim from my shade.
Most enemies will have atleast 2 effects they apply as part of their normal rotation. And some abilities even apply multiple negative effects.
The secondary effect works as follows: It does nothing to existing dots or debuffs already affecting you. But it will reduce the duration by any debuff applied to you the next 6 seconds.(but will do absolutely nothing to the duration of dots) Sload's actually counts as a debuff here, so it will get reduced to 3 second duration if it actually procs on you again during the next 6 seconds. (down to 4 ticks from the original 7). So if it procs, you spend 5130 magicka countering 2559 damage, a pretty bad tradeoff. If it didn't proc, you spend 5130 magicka on absolutely nothing.
If you fight my nightblade, it means 1 purge cast will do nearly nothing. It will remove 2 negative effects that get instantly reapplied as part of my normal rotation, and potentially counter 2559 damage from a potential sload proc within the next 6 seconds.
Now, you can cast 2 purges back to back, costing you 10260 magicka, most likely close to your full magicka pool on a stamina toon. In theory this should remove sload's, but we have to keep in mind I have other negative effects that can get applied during the fight:
Snare from fear
2 hand axe bleed
dual wield axe bleed
Major defile from disease damage and incap
Dual dot poisons
Poison status effect
If atleast 2 of these were also active before the purge cast, sload's will still be on you. And all you will have gained will be to clear a couple of dots that reapply themselves and potentially counter 2559 damage from a potential sload proc within the next 6 seconds, and making my defile and snare if applied within the next 6 seconds abit shorter duration.
Most builds have atleast as many negative effects as the one I run, if not more.
If the intent was to purge the sload's proc and cloak after, you will need to spend around 14k magicka. And you will have to time it so you cloak 4-5 seconds after the next sload's proc goes off, because that's the only window where you are sure not to be sloaded again (by that single opponent)
Basically, purge is a *** counter to sload's, and a pretty *** spell in general if you don't purge for a whole group.
You're 10 x better off slotting another ability.
We need to look closer on this abilitys mechanics, to understand how it works: the first part is quite simple: It simply removes the 2 negative effects (dots or debuffs) from you that were first applied.
In case of my nightblade attacking you, that will almost always be major fracture from surprise attack, and minor maim from my shade.
Most enemies will have atleast 2 effects they apply as part of their normal rotation. And some abilities even apply multiple negative effects.
The secondary effect works as follows: It does nothing to existing dots or debuffs already affecting you. But it will reduce the duration by any debuff applied to you the next 6 seconds.(but will do absolutely nothing to the duration of dots) Sload's actually counts as a debuff here, so it will get reduced to 3 second duration if it actually procs on you again during the next 6 seconds. (down to 4 ticks from the original 7). So if it procs, you spend 5130 magicka countering 2559 damage, a pretty bad tradeoff. If it didn't proc, you spend 5130 magicka on absolutely nothing.
If you fight my nightblade, it means 1 purge cast will do nearly nothing. It will remove 2 negative effects that get instantly reapplied as part of my normal rotation, and potentially counter 2559 damage from a potential sload proc within the next 6 seconds.
Now, you can cast 2 purges back to back, costing you 10260 magicka, most likely close to your full magicka pool on a stamina toon. In theory this should remove sload's, but we have to keep in mind I have other negative effects that can get applied during the fight:
Snare from fear
2 hand axe bleed
dual wield axe bleed
Major defile from disease damage and incap
Dual dot poisons
Poison status effect
If atleast 2 of these were also active before the purge cast, sload's will still be on you. And all you will have gained will be to clear a couple of dots that reapply themselves and potentially counter 2559 damage from a potential sload proc within the next 6 seconds, and making my defile and snare if applied within the next 6 seconds abit shorter duration.
Most builds have atleast as many negative effects as the one I run, if not more.
If the intent was to purge the sload's proc and cloak after, you will need to spend around 14k magicka. And you will have to time it so you cloak 4-5 seconds after the next sload's proc goes off, because that's the only window where you are sure not to be sloaded again (by that single opponent)
Basically, purge is a *** counter to sload's, and a pretty *** spell in general if you don't purge for a whole group.
You're 10 x better off slotting another ability.
15
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glavius✭✭✭✭✭JUsT uSe WyRd, lEArN tO aDApT
Wyrds has terrible set bonuses for a stamina toon. You would also have to slot cloak as only magicka ability on the bar it's on or you waste the effect a lot. It also has 2,5 times the cooldown of sloads.1 -
Maryal✭✭✭✭✭
✭@glavius - you say the Wyrd set has terrible bonuses for a stamblade. Well, perhaps yes, but perhaps no. It really depends on the rest of the person's build, as well as their playstyle. Is it possible you don't like the set because it CAN be effective?
Wyrd:
(2 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(3 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(4 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(5 items) Casting a spell has a 100% chance to remove 5 negative effect, this can occur every 15 seconds.
These are not bad set bonuses, even for a stam build running cloak. Magica recovery means you can spam cloak more often, and since cloak costs magica, wouldn't that trigger the 5th bonus -- 100% chance to remove 5 negative effects every 15 seconds? If you don't want cloak, you could even slot refreshing path - it helps you move fast, you get a HOT, and it costs magica (to proc Wyrd).
Heck, slot efficient purge as well - use efficient purge between Wyrd's 5th bonus procs. After all, you're no good as a stamblade if your dead. LOL!Edited by Maryal on June 19, 2018 8:54AM2 -
GreenSoup2HoT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@glavius - you say the Wyrd set has terrible bonuses for a stamblade. Well, perhaps yes, but perhaps no. It really depends on the rest of the person's build, as well as their playstyle. Is it possible you don't like the set because it CAN be an effective?
Wyrd:
(2 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(3 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(4 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(5 items) Casting a spell has a 100% chance to remove 5 negative effect, this can occur every 15 seconds.
These are not bad set bonuses, even for a stam build running cloak. Magica recovery means you can spam cloak more often, and since cloak costs magica, wouldn't that trigger the 5th bonus of having a 100% chance to remove 5 negative effects? Heck, slot efficient purge as well - use 'em both. You're no good as a stamblade if your dead. LOL!
Id rather run Seducer on stamblade with eff purge.PS4 NA DC4 -
Gnozo✭✭✭✭✭
✭I Wanted to make some kind of ironic Post in how much i like your post and wyrd is best in slot but i simply cant.
Running wyrd on a nightblade would mean 0 stam sustain and 0 damage + healing from vigor. But at least you can spam purge and cloak!!!!!!!111117 -
glavius✭✭✭✭✭I Wanted to make some kind of ironic Post in how much i like your post and wyrd is best in slot but i simply cant.
Running wyrd on a nightblade would mean 0 stam sustain and 0 damage + healing from vigor. But at least you can spam purge and cloak!!!!!!!11111
Glad you were ironic on the first post. Just me being slow
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glavius✭✭✭✭✭@glavius - you say the Wyrd set has terrible bonuses for a stamblade. Well, perhaps yes, but perhaps no. It really depends on the rest of the person's build, as well as their playstyle. Is it possible you don't like the set because it CAN be effective?
Wyrd:
(2 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(3 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(4 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(5 items) Casting a spell has a 100% chance to remove 5 negative effect, this can occur every 15 seconds.
These are not bad set bonuses, even for a stam build running cloak. Magica recovery means you can spam cloak more often, and since cloak costs magica, wouldn't that trigger the 5th bonus -- 100% chance to remove 5 negative effects every 15 seconds? If you don't want cloak, you could even slot refreshing path - it helps you move fast, you get a HOT, and it costs magica (to proc Wyrd).
Heck, slot efficient purge as well - use efficient purge between Wyrd's 5th bonus procs. After all, you're no good as a stamblade if your dead. LOL!
Spell damage= useless.
Magicka=not so good, if you want magicka pool you use triglyphs or triune trait and get it at no cost.
Magicka regen=ok stat, but I would run orzongas food or shacklebreaker if I wanted magicka regen
Yes cloak paired with wyrd might work on a stamina build. But only if you don't use any other magicka abilities on that bar since shade/fear/mirage/channeled acceleration would all consume the purge when you don't want it consumed.
And only if you don't mind sacrificing a full 2-3-4-5 piece bonus just for that, making your build much weaker in general.
It's kinda like running shieldbreaker on a magicka build. Great for very few niche situations, terrible the rest of the time.3 -
glavius✭✭✭✭✭Major defile from disease damage and incap
Do you get major defile from disease damage? or disease / befoul weapon enchants? I thought it's just a minor defile?
Can proc from both if the target is not an argonian or bosmer (or using disease jewelry enchant). All disease damage can proc it, but enchant has the highest chance.
It was never minor defile, but many people think it is.0 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭There’s no situation in which wyrd tree is a good set for stamina end of story, no matter what the rest of your build is. And even for magicka, losing that 5th trait of any set is detrimental to being able to play well. Now let’s clear something up. If you just run around in a Cyrodiil zerg surfing or as part of a zerg, letting tre healer heal you, using purifies from random Templars, and your idea of enjoyable combat is just hitting a few abilities and trying to out number the enemy before they out number you, then yes, you can pretty much run any build. But the people arguing against sloads and making points about why purge and wyrd tree aren’t viable are coming at it from a different point of view. They expect to run into 1vX fights and 1v1 with other good players, and at that point you rely on those 5th traits as they’re often the most powerful. Having to sacrifice one to deal with a single set means sacrificing your entire play style. Let’s say you run shackle breaker and lich on a mag sorc, sacrificing shackle means losin 2k stamina a really important part of combat because of how many cc there are and how expensive it is to break them. If you sacrifice lich you’re losing a ton of sustain, which is going to leave you high and dry. Your defense and offense is going to suffer greatly. And this would be done all for a set that might or might not purge sloads.6 -
Datthaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lol all parrots saying "use purge" "use wyrd" "adapt"
How about we remove sloads and you adapt to a better play style19 -
fred4✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Yes and no. There is a little known fact, which Harven's addon displays, if you don't believe me. Magicka recovery bonuses from armor sets do not raise your out of combat magicka recovery. A lot of the time, when you cloak, you are actually out of combat, and Wyrd and most other sets won't help you cloak any longer. This is why, as a stamblade, I prefer getting my magicka recovery from double regen drinks or the Atro mundus, and I do not value magicka recovery bonuses from armor sets or jewelry.These are not bad set bonuses, even for a stam build running cloak. Magica recovery means you can spam cloak more often,
I tried this set once on a magblade. The 15 second cooldown kills it. Sure Sloads only lasts 6 seconds. On a magicka toon you have the additional problem that you can't really control when it procs, even if you single bar it.and since cloak costs magica, wouldn't that trigger the 5th bonus -- 100% chance to remove 5 negative effects every 15 seconds?
Yeah right. What nonsense. Do you even play stamblade? On stamblade, the cost of Purge, even the Efficient version, is horrendous, and it typically does nothing useful, because other players put many effects on you, as explained by the OP. I actually do currently slot it on my magblade. Not as a counter to Sloads, but because I got tired of being marked.Heck, slot efficient purge as well - use efficient purge between Wyrd's 5th bonus procs. After all, you're no good as a stamblade if your dead.
When a single player, in a 1v1, runs Durok's + Sloads + bleeds cancer, it doesn't kill me (in CP), but I end up at half health, unable to heal. I don't have much choice but to run for LoS cover, since engaging them further would probably kill me.
The counter to Sloads and AOE is to spam Cloak. Nothing continuously pulls you out of cloak. All abilities tick, with rates varying between 0.5 seconds to 2 seconds. If you spam Cloak every one second you have a high chance of cancelling anything that exposes you as it happens. This applies to things like Hurricane as well. Of course, this is only really viable on magblade. The reason I slot Purge as well is to clear Mark after I have reached safety and Sloads has long run out. Purge is terrible for getting you out of a jam. It's more a quality of life thing that allows you to get back into a fight, or into Cloak, rather than keep LoSing.PC EU (EP): Magicka NB (main), Stamina NB, Stamina DK, Stamina Sorcerer, Magicka Warden, Magicka Templar, Stamina Templar
PC NA (EP): Magicka NB1 -
OdinForge✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The purge or cleanse Sload argument was never relevant to begin with, it's a joke to even suggest it was.
Cleansing cost resources while Sload is just free damage from an armor set that will proc every 6 seconds for the simple act of slapping your opponent. The person using Sload does not need to do anything, just run around light attacking you from the safety of a zerg.
Sload should be converted to a non Oblivion damage based source, or made so that it is harder to proc to limit up-time and unable to stack with itself.The Age of Wrobel.3 -
LegendaryMage✭✭✭✭✭
✭@glavius - you say the Wyrd set has terrible bonuses for a stamblade. Well, perhaps yes, but perhaps no. It really depends on the rest of the person's build, as well as their playstyle. Is it possible you don't like the set because it CAN be effective?
Wyrd:
(2 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(3 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(4 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(5 items) Casting a spell has a 100% chance to remove 5 negative effect, this can occur every 15 seconds.
These are not bad set bonuses, even for a stam build running cloak. Magica recovery means you can spam cloak more often, and since cloak costs magica, wouldn't that trigger the 5th bonus -- 100% chance to remove 5 negative effects every 15 seconds? If you don't want cloak, you could even slot refreshing path - it helps you move fast, you get a HOT, and it costs magica (to proc Wyrd).
Heck, slot efficient purge as well - use efficient purge between Wyrd's 5th bonus procs. After all, you're no good as a stamblade if your dead. LOL!
The cooldown is too long in PVP, if it was 10 seconds at least, it would be more bearable.0 -
arkansas_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Wyrd is a bad set for magicka builds, let alone stam builds. One purge every fifteen seconds is terrible for PVP. I have no clue why people keep bringing it up.ＦＯＲＵＭＰＬＡＲ
Grand Overlord 25/8/172 -
Thunderknuckles✭✭✭✭arkansas_ESO wrote: »Wyrd is a bad set for magicka builds, let alone stam builds. One purge every fifteen seconds is terrible for PVP. I have no clue why people keep bringing it up.
Because they don't know any better and answer without thinking at all.2 -
brandonv516✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭arkansas_ESO wrote: »Wyrd is a bad set for magicka builds, let alone stam builds. One purge every fifteen seconds is terrible for PVP. I have no clue why people keep bringing it up.
I created a post suggesting it change to 7 seconds with 50% chance to proc but ZoS closed it. Anyways, that's about the only way I'd use that set (7 or less seconds).Edited by brandonv516 on June 20, 2018 1:38AM0 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭arkansas_ESO wrote: »Wyrd is a bad set for magicka builds, let alone stam builds. One purge every fifteen seconds is terrible for PVP. I have no clue why people keep bringing it up.
Incorrect; the set is actually really good for magicka nbs if you build for it. I use to backbar it and use cloak on that bar which allowed me to escape every single time back when dots broke cloak a lothttps://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos2 -
TheDoomsdayMonster✭✭✭✭✭arkansas_ESO wrote: »Wyrd is a bad set for magicka builds, let alone stam builds. One purge every fifteen seconds is terrible for PVP. I have no clue why people keep bringing it up.
Incorrect; the set is actually really good for magicka nbs if you build for it. I use to backbar it and use cloak on that bar which allowed me to escape every single time back when dots broke cloak a lot
Agreed...
The people that are saying its bad are the ones that don't want to change their builds to adapt to the current game...
I am willing to bet that some of them have never even used the set in practice; they are simply looking at the set on paper and drawing conclusions about it opposed to actually giving it a shot...
Unyeilding Bias
PSN TheLordofMurder
PS4 NA
Magicka Templar
DC
The Combat Physician: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKaqUVm_8JE&t=142s0 -
TheDoomsdayMonster✭✭✭✭✭Thunderknuckles wrote: »arkansas_ESO wrote: »Wyrd is a bad set for magicka builds, let alone stam builds. One purge every fifteen seconds is terrible for PVP. I have no clue why people keep bringing it up.
Because they don't know any better and answer without thinking at all.
Nope, we definitely thought about it...
I have especially thought about it as pertains the current game...
Infact I used to use Wyrd on my Templar; the set made me virtually invulnerable to DoT builds as the combo of Extended Ritual and Wyrds insured that any DoT's applied to me were immediately purged without much effort (purging negative effects while being able to stay on the offensive is much stronger than some think)...
Edited by TheDoomsdayMonster on June 20, 2018 2:55AMUnyeilding Bias
PSN TheLordofMurder
PS4 NA
Magicka Templar
DC
The Combat Physician: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKaqUVm_8JE&t=142s0 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭arkansas_ESO wrote: »Wyrd is a bad set for magicka builds, let alone stam builds. One purge every fifteen seconds is terrible for PVP. I have no clue why people keep bringing it up.
Incorrect; the set is actually really good for magicka nbs if you build for it. I use to backbar it and use cloak on that bar which allowed me to escape every single time back when dots broke cloak a lot
I did to. Especially when curse got the delayed effect. Problem now is there are just so many effects. Think they grew0 -
Metemsycosis✭✭✭✭Purge works in 1v1, 1v2, 1v4 max. After that spamming purge isn't viable. So if you're debuffed, poisoned, etc and then get sloads you're eating that damage.Terethea Magdalena, Breton Nightblade
A Dark-Adapted Eye, Imperial Necromancer
sanguinare vampiris
https://m.twitch.tv/amcrenshaw/profile0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Using purge on a stamblade? lmao.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...2 -
arkansas_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭arkansas_ESO wrote: »Wyrd is a bad set for magicka builds, let alone stam builds. One purge every fifteen seconds is terrible for PVP. I have no clue why people keep bringing it up.
Incorrect; the set is actually really good for magicka nbs if you build for it. I use to backbar it and use cloak on that bar which allowed me to escape every single time back when dots broke cloak a lot
I've tried it on and off since the 1T patch. It's a bad set compared to other options.ＦＯＲＵＭＰＬＡＲ
Grand Overlord 25/8/170 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Shouldn't have to 'adapt' to clearly broken and overpowered sets.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...4 -
glavius✭✭✭✭✭arkansas_ESO wrote: »Wyrd is a bad set for magicka builds, let alone stam builds. One purge every fifteen seconds is terrible for PVP. I have no clue why people keep bringing it up.
Incorrect; the set is actually really good for magicka nbs if you build for it. I use to backbar it and use cloak on that bar which allowed me to escape every single time back when dots broke cloak a lot
Yea except you have 4 other magicka abilities on that bar that will use the purge effect when you don't want it to. Unless you only play with 6 abilities total and have 5 x cloak on bar 2?? Sounds viable 1 -
grannas211✭✭✭✭✭
✭If you with a straight face tell some one to run Wyrd tree on a stamina character to counter one particular set, well honestly there’s no response even needed.1 -
GreenSoup2HoT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »Using purge on a stamblade? lmao.
Its not bad. Running Imperial Race with duel stat regen makes eff purge easy to manage. I hit 1500 magicka regen without continuous (im vamp tho).
My stamblade friends i run with love having me around as a supportblade.
Ive been considering running Seducer to crank that mag regen to like 2k then the cost reduction will help a lot. Could even 5 medium 2 light.
You wouldnt believe the amount of nbs that have no idea how to fight you once you purge their poison inj and incap/surprise att debuffs.
Edited by GreenSoup2HoT on June 20, 2018 6:39AMPS4 NA DC1
