Isn't it a bit stupid how weak Vigor is, considering Healing is halved in PvP?

Azurephoenix999

It's obtained in the PvP skill line, yet due to the fast paced nature of PvP, the relatively weak healing, the fact that it's HoT instead of instant, AND the fact that it's only half as effective in PvP, basically means it's almost completely useless in the very activity you get it from. Using it on their own, even characters with the lowest possible max health would see their health bars barely even move.

The only way I could possibly see this ability being even remotely viable in PvP is if an entire group used it at once, and I'm not even sure Vigor would stack enough times for it to work well.

I'm just saying...isn't it a bit stupid that the one heal from the PvP skill lines, one of the only stamina heals in the entire game, is almost completely useless in the activity you get it from?

Mureel

O dear.

Sky_WK

Oh my sweet summer child.

DRAGON_KILLER_HUNTER

i dont think vigor is weak at all, strong heal combined with momentum/rally

MaleAmazon

It's the best stamina-scaling heal.

LMar

XD
Vigor can make some stam builds unkillable without Defile

Feanor

Vigor is one of the strongest HoTs in the game. It's efficiency can be diminished via defiles, but that's another issue entirely. Nothing wrong with the skill itself.

UppGRAYxDD

5 star troll here...move along

Azurephoenix999

MaleAmazon wrote: »

It's the best stamina-scaling heal.

Yet when compared to almost any Magicka heal it's almost the worst of the lot.

DRAGON_KILLER_HUNTER wrote: »

i dont think vigor is weak at all, strong heal combined with momentum/rally

That takes up 2 slots, and one of those explicitly requires a two-handed weapon. Again, compare that with almost any Magicka heal and the Magicka heals vastly outclass it.

Feanor

Azurephoenix999 wrote: »

MaleAmazon wrote: »

It's the best stamina-scaling heal.

Yet when compared to almost any Magicka heal it's almost the worst of the lot.

DRAGON_KILLER_HUNTER wrote: »

i dont think vigor is weak at all, strong heal combined with momentum/rally

That takes up 2 slots, and one of those explicitly requires a two-handed weapon. Again, compare that with almost any Magicka heal and the Magicka heals vastly outclass it.

Which magicka HoT "vastly outclasses" it? If you compare it to any burst heal, sure those are stronger by far. But that's the intended design. If you think Vigor is a weak heal you do something wrong with it.

DDuke

Well, this is going to be one of those threads where people who play/play against Heavy Armor 2H/X builds will disagree with you, but people in medium armor will agree (especially people who play without 2H).

Vigor can be strong as a supplementary heal to keep you alive between Rally burst heals, especially when you couple it with high mitigation.


Alone though, it's outclassed by every damage shield, Honor the Dead, Warden spores etc in terms of value - but it's also unfortunately the only heal available for most stam builds outside Rally from 2H and thus necessary. I wouldn't call it strong though in those circumstances.

Emmagoldman

When you us vigor, you need to give yourself immunity for the hot to tic. Your right that your not like a magplar and hit bol and block. It also helps to try to keep it up as much as you can.

Vigor---> cloak
Vigor--->dodgeroll
Vigor---> block
Also you can tie it with rally,
Rally-->vigor-->dodgeroll

Or

Vigor---> roll ---> rally

Remember rally works off of time, so the longer you wait the better.

If you're a dk, and use the healing ability, it is based on missing health. Use that first, vigor, roll.

You can also hit it going on the offensive, so when they hit you back you have healing coming in and can generally start off with higher pressure.

Feanor

Alone though, it's outclassed by every damage shield, Honor the Dead, Warden spores etc in terms of value

No wonder if you compare Vigor with a) a totally different defense mechanic or b) a burst heal that it looks less appealing. The more appropriate comparison would be Rapid Regen, Malovelent Offering, or Surge.

MaleAmazon

I play in 5 medium most of the time (RP thing, I just like it). Vigor is perfectly fine. It does the trick. Yes, magicka can stack heals better and heavy armor gives more defense. This does not inherently make vigor bad.

Also, what's with this 'healing is halved'?.. you do know damage taken is halved too, right? This doesnt make damage skills useless...

But go ahead, boost it. I'll theorycraft an infused hakeijo, triune templar build with honor the dead + vigor

danno8

Vigor's huge strength and advantage over a burst heal is that it can be pre-cast before going on the offensive, keeping you alive while you are applying pressure to your opponent.

It can also be cast while applying your buffs, keeping your health topped off.

Burst heals are great if you are almost dead, the problem being is that you have to be almost dead for them to be effective, opening you up for CC->burst to finish you off.

MaleAmazon

Exactly. It can work almost as a pre-buff, or at least in anticipation of damage.

Kelces

Sure, let's trash healers some more!

Vapirko

it only depends on how you’re using it. if you’ve got it slotted as part of a group and you’re receiving multiple healing sources it’s great. In terms of solo play a lot of things suck right now. It’s really hard to survive on most stamina classes outnumbered against even a small group of people who have half an idea what they’re doing. Most of those clips you see of stamina players stomping players are carefully selected clips, they all go down plenty of times, you can see it on stream. Alot of stamina PvPers right now aside from NBs, are using troll king because medium sucks in general, shuffle is terrible for the snare immunity, but the combination of vigor and forward momentum and your small class heal just isn’t enough to outdo the crazy amount of incoming damage + defile that players can dish out with one button.

DDuke

Feanor wrote: »

Alone though, it's outclassed by every damage shield, Honor the Dead, Warden spores etc in terms of value

No wonder if you compare Vigor with a) a totally different defense mechanic or b) a burst heal that it looks less appealing. The more appropriate comparison would be Rapid Regen, Malovelent Offering, or Surge.

Well that's the point, I'm comparing it to abilities that are strong enough to be the sole defense of a build.

Vigor does not fall into that category, you will always feel at a disadvantage when not playing with Rally or high mitigation.


Meanwhile my magicka DK for example can rely on Healing Ward alone to survive (even in 5/1/1 light armor Destro/Resto).


That is why Vigor for some players feels like a weak skill and for others like a strong part of a regular meta build.

Ragnarock41

Vigor is fine as it is.

kookster

As someone who uses vigor on all my stam builds, vigor is amazing. And does not need a buff. If you feel vigor is weak, you probably need more weapon damage/stam to make it stronger.

Orlacc

Need a new sub-forum..."I am butthurt from PvP and it is the games fault."

Ectheliontnacil

Azurephoenix999 wrote: »

MaleAmazon wrote: »

It's the best stamina-scaling heal.

Yet when compared to almost any Magicka heal it's almost the worst of the lot.

DRAGON_KILLER_HUNTER wrote: »

i dont think vigor is weak at all, strong heal combined with momentum/rally

That takes up 2 slots, and one of those explicitly requires a two-handed weapon. Again, compare that with almost any Magicka heal and the Magicka heals vastly outclass it.

It's the strongest hot in game to the best of my knowledge.

And vigor/rally taking up 2 slots is nothing. Sorcs use 3 shields for staying alive. Wardens some times run multiple heal over time abilities, a burst heal AND shield. DKs entire toolkit consists of healing/dmg abilities.

You're really crying about 2 ability slots?

Mureel

hmsdragonfly

OP hasn't been corrupted by the power of Vigor.

Feanor

DDuke wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Alone though, it's outclassed by every damage shield, Honor the Dead, Warden spores etc in terms of value

No wonder if you compare Vigor with a) a totally different defense mechanic or b) a burst heal that it looks less appealing. The more appropriate comparison would be Rapid Regen, Malovelent Offering, or Surge.

Well that's the point, I'm comparing it to abilities that are strong enough to be the sole defense of a build.

Vigor does not fall into that category, you will always feel at a disadvantage when not playing with Rally or high mitigation.


Meanwhile my magicka DK for example can rely on Healing Ward alone to survive (even in 5/1/1 light armor Destro/Resto).


That is why Vigor for some players feels like a weak skill and for others like a strong part of a regular meta build.

That’s comparing oranges to apples though. Healing Ward is not a HoT. If you compare Vigor to magicka HoTs - which is the appropriate comparison - you see these share the same issue. Or would you suggest you can base a build solely on Rapid Regen or Strife?

DDuke

Feanor wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Alone though, it's outclassed by every damage shield, Honor the Dead, Warden spores etc in terms of value

No wonder if you compare Vigor with a) a totally different defense mechanic or b) a burst heal that it looks less appealing. The more appropriate comparison would be Rapid Regen, Malovelent Offering, or Surge.

Well that's the point, I'm comparing it to abilities that are strong enough to be the sole defense of a build.

Vigor does not fall into that category, you will always feel at a disadvantage when not playing with Rally or high mitigation.


Meanwhile my magicka DK for example can rely on Healing Ward alone to survive (even in 5/1/1 light armor Destro/Resto).


That is why Vigor for some players feels like a weak skill and for others like a strong part of a regular meta build.

That’s comparing oranges to apples though. Healing Ward is not a HoT. If you compare Vigor to magicka HoTs - which is the appropriate comparison - you see these share the same issue. Or would you suggest you can base a build solely on Rapid Regen or Strife?

No, but you have other options.

Stamina builds that don't want to run 2H do not have such things, and as such are using Vigor as their main heal.

Well, there's one exception: Warden, which can run Soothing Spores.


It is these builds that find Vigor "weak", as alone it is pretty much as useful as Rapid Regen would be for a magicka build without dmg shields or instant heals. Magicka builds always have options for instaheal/shield, regardless of class/weapon/armor.

Mitoice

What are you talking about????
Vigor is pretty strong!! Vigor is arguably the 3rd best heal in game behind Only Templar breath of life and warden living roots.
The only reason for this is:
1. You are a troll
2. You are playing as a magsorc or magtemplar
3. Vigor is a typo and you are really talking about the ritual templar spell ( the one that got the casting time removed recently)

driosketch

How about trying it out?

mb10

You definitely havent seen arctic wind for wardens lmao that heal is a JOKE in PVP even if you have 50k health

Feanor

DDuke wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Alone though, it's outclassed by every damage shield, Honor the Dead, Warden spores etc in terms of value

No wonder if you compare Vigor with a) a totally different defense mechanic or b) a burst heal that it looks less appealing. The more appropriate comparison would be Rapid Regen, Malovelent Offering, or Surge.

Well that's the point, I'm comparing it to abilities that are strong enough to be the sole defense of a build.

Vigor does not fall into that category, you will always feel at a disadvantage when not playing with Rally or high mitigation.


Meanwhile my magicka DK for example can rely on Healing Ward alone to survive (even in 5/1/1 light armor Destro/Resto).


That is why Vigor for some players feels like a weak skill and for others like a strong part of a regular meta build.

That’s comparing oranges to apples though. Healing Ward is not a HoT. If you compare Vigor to magicka HoTs - which is the appropriate comparison - you see these share the same issue. Or would you suggest you can base a build solely on Rapid Regen or Strife?

No, but you have other options.

Stamina builds that don't want to run 2H do not have such things, and as such are using Vigor as their main heal.

Well, there's one exception: Warden, which can run Soothing Spores.


It is these builds that find Vigor "weak", as alone it is pretty much as useful as Rapid Regen would be for a magicka build without dmg shields or instant heals. Magicka builds always have options for instaheal/shield, regardless of class/weapon/armor.

Heals were never meant to be the main defense of stamina - dodging and blocking is.