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What Factors into Good DPS? Attempted Answer!
Thorstienn
✭✭✭
Hey everyone.
We see these kinds of questions all the time around the forums. Whats most Important: Gear, Rotation (LA weaving), CP? Bonus: How bad is power creep?
I decided I would try to give a more "definitive" answer to these questions. By sitting down and doing over 40 parses!
First the constants:
Redguard StamDK with Lover Mundus. Heavy head with health enchant, all other Medium with stamina: ALL Divines. Infused Jewelry with weapon damage glyphs. Axe Nirnhoned with Poison, Dagger Infused with WD. Nirnhoned Bow with Damage Health Poison. ALL GEAR GOLD (for consistency). Dubious Camoran Throne Drink.
Front Bar: Noxious Breath, Venomous Claw, Blood Craze, Deadly Cloak, Flames of Oblivion - Flawless Dawnbreaker
Back Bar: Rearming Trap, Endless Hail, Poison Injection, Caltrops, Igneous Weapons - Standard of Might
Rotation: I used a static rotation to keep consistency. Ultimate ready before each Parse. Pre FoO into IW. Back bar left to right, swap, front bar left to right repeat. LA weaving between all abilities with a Heavy Attack into Cloak and a Heavy Attack into FoO (kept constant for sustain due to no CP trash sustain and potion problems)
Note: No potions were used. After my 1st 2 parses, the potions bugged out and would not apply even after game restart, so I adjusted as above and made do.
The Setups:
1. So for my "basic" I used 5 Piece Hunding's Rage, 4 Piece Night Mothers Gaze, Agility Jewelry (transmuted as above). A commonly suggested, crafted setup to simulate a basic players gear; I didn't want to go too crazy with mismatched gear etc.
2. For my "BiS" I used 2 Piece Velidreth Monster, 5 Body Perfect Arms of Relequen, 3 Jewelry (transuted as above) and front bar DW Berserking Warrior, Maelstrom Bow. This simulates top end "BiS' gear, I am not saying it definitely is.
The Tests:
So for each setup I did 5 parses of the following; NO CP, 300CP, 750CP. I took the average of the 5 parses and that gave us the results. "Basic" setup with NO CP was used as the base, and percentage increases from there were determined.
I also did a "bad rotation" set of parses with just the "BiS" and 750CP. To simulate this I just used abilities on cooldown with no LA weaving, only using Heavy Attack when resources were out.
And for fun I did a set of "LA Spam" parse with just the "BiS" and 750CP: No Buffs, just pure DW LA.
The Results:
========Basic====BiS====
=======================
No CP===BASE===+27.5%==
300 CP==+53.8%==+92.8%==
750 CP==+77.9%==+119.7%=
Bad Rot==========+50%===
LA Spam=========+1.5%===
So interesting results I think.
Firstly, going down the results we can see that CP makes a pretty good difference, around 20% increase from 300CP to Max. Also clearly the lack of resource bonus really punishes the No CP situation.
Secondly, gear makes an even bigger difference, that actually gets exacerbated by increases in CP.
Next with a bad rotation, we can see that with top gear and CP you lose about 70%of you DPS, yet are still on par with a CP 300 player with a good rotation and crafted gear.
Finally LA Spam! I think its funny that as long as someone grinds CP and "somehow" gets the best gear they can still pull comparable damage to BASE (this is of course due to the OPness of Releguen in the Dummy Parse)
Quick note in case people ask; basic setup at 300 CP was pulling ~25k
I leave everyone free to draw there own conclusions, I just thought it would be nice for people to get an idea exactly how much of a factor certain elements really are.
We see these kinds of questions all the time around the forums. Whats most Important: Gear, Rotation (LA weaving), CP? Bonus: How bad is power creep?
I decided I would try to give a more "definitive" answer to these questions. By sitting down and doing over 40 parses!
First the constants:
Redguard StamDK with Lover Mundus. Heavy head with health enchant, all other Medium with stamina: ALL Divines. Infused Jewelry with weapon damage glyphs. Axe Nirnhoned with Poison, Dagger Infused with WD. Nirnhoned Bow with Damage Health Poison. ALL GEAR GOLD (for consistency). Dubious Camoran Throne Drink.
Front Bar: Noxious Breath, Venomous Claw, Blood Craze, Deadly Cloak, Flames of Oblivion - Flawless Dawnbreaker
Back Bar: Rearming Trap, Endless Hail, Poison Injection, Caltrops, Igneous Weapons - Standard of Might
Rotation: I used a static rotation to keep consistency. Ultimate ready before each Parse. Pre FoO into IW. Back bar left to right, swap, front bar left to right repeat. LA weaving between all abilities with a Heavy Attack into Cloak and a Heavy Attack into FoO (kept constant for sustain due to no CP trash sustain and potion problems)
Note: No potions were used. After my 1st 2 parses, the potions bugged out and would not apply even after game restart, so I adjusted as above and made do.
The Setups:
1. So for my "basic" I used 5 Piece Hunding's Rage, 4 Piece Night Mothers Gaze, Agility Jewelry (transmuted as above). A commonly suggested, crafted setup to simulate a basic players gear; I didn't want to go too crazy with mismatched gear etc.
2. For my "BiS" I used 2 Piece Velidreth Monster, 5 Body Perfect Arms of Relequen, 3 Jewelry (transuted as above) and front bar DW Berserking Warrior, Maelstrom Bow. This simulates top end "BiS' gear, I am not saying it definitely is.
The Tests:
So for each setup I did 5 parses of the following; NO CP, 300CP, 750CP. I took the average of the 5 parses and that gave us the results. "Basic" setup with NO CP was used as the base, and percentage increases from there were determined.
I also did a "bad rotation" set of parses with just the "BiS" and 750CP. To simulate this I just used abilities on cooldown with no LA weaving, only using Heavy Attack when resources were out.
And for fun I did a set of "LA Spam" parse with just the "BiS" and 750CP: No Buffs, just pure DW LA.
The Results:
========Basic====BiS====
=======================
No CP===BASE===+27.5%==
300 CP==+53.8%==+92.8%==
750 CP==+77.9%==+119.7%=
Bad Rot==========+50%===
LA Spam=========+1.5%===
So interesting results I think.
Firstly, going down the results we can see that CP makes a pretty good difference, around 20% increase from 300CP to Max. Also clearly the lack of resource bonus really punishes the No CP situation.
Secondly, gear makes an even bigger difference, that actually gets exacerbated by increases in CP.
Next with a bad rotation, we can see that with top gear and CP you lose about 70%of you DPS, yet are still on par with a CP 300 player with a good rotation and crafted gear.
Finally LA Spam! I think its funny that as long as someone grinds CP and "somehow" gets the best gear they can still pull comparable damage to BASE (this is of course due to the OPness of Releguen in the Dummy Parse)
Quick note in case people ask; basic setup at 300 CP was pulling ~25k
I leave everyone free to draw there own conclusions, I just thought it would be nice for people to get an idea exactly how much of a factor certain elements really are.
2
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VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So you tested an unoriginal meta build?
Which is kinda the point. If you want to test the difference that CP and rotation make compared to gear, you sort of have to establish a baseline for comparison. Any build will do, but you might as well test a "meta" build that players are going to be looking at currently.
I most appreciate the methodology of this test, because this test could be used to compare any gear sets
Want to test your totally original build compared to a base line and the "meta" BIS for your role? This is a good methodology for doing so and clearly lays out the method to replicate results.2 -
Yzalirk✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »So you tested an unoriginal meta build?
Which is kinda the point. If you want to test the difference that CP and rotation make compared to gear, you sort of have to establish a baseline for comparison. Any build will do, but you might as well test a "meta" build that players are going to be looking at currently.
I most appreciate the methodology of this test, because this test could be used to compare any gear sets
Want to test your totally original build compared to a base line and the "meta" BIS for your role? This is a good methodology for doing so and clearly lays out the method to replicate results.
Fair enough but what about other classes? Or have you only tested with a Dragonknight?0 -
Thorstienn✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »So you tested an unoriginal meta build?
Which is kinda the point. If you want to test the difference that CP and rotation make compared to gear, you sort of have to establish a baseline for comparison. Any build will do, but you might as well test a "meta" build that players are going to be looking at currently.
I most appreciate the methodology of this test, because this test could be used to compare any gear sets
Want to test your totally original build compared to a base line and the "meta" BIS for your role? This is a good methodology for doing so and clearly lays out the method to replicate results.
Fair enough but what about other classes? Or have you only tested with a Dragonknight?
Yeah as stated above, the Meta just makes sense as the top test.
I have "only" tested the Stamdk in this manner, it took some time and I actually also tested 1 other set-up I call "the Stonefalls"; Kraghs, Viper and Red Mountain, but that was for my own theory crafting.
I would imagine all Stam classes will see similar results with varying margins.
I may do a Mag class in future, but the methodology is there, it's just takes time the more variables you want to test.0 -
Integral1900✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Playing a build you enjoy plus a boat load of practice is the single biggest factor, lack of practice or using a build they don’t enjoy has killed more players than any amount of fake tanks and healers2 -
Thorstienn✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »So you tested an unoriginal meta build?
Which is kinda the point. If you want to test the difference that CP and rotation make compared to gear, you sort of have to establish a baseline for comparison. Any build will do, but you might as well test a "meta" build that players are going to be looking at currently.
I most appreciate the methodology of this test, because this test could be used to compare any gear sets
Want to test your totally original build compared to a base line and the "meta" BIS for your role? This is a good methodology for doing so and clearly lays out the method to replicate results.
Glad you saw the point.
Thanks.
I even used myself to theorycraft some other builds. And there are always more variables.0 -
Thorstienn✭✭✭Integral1900 wrote: »Playing a build you enjoy plus a boat load of practice is the single biggest factor, lack of practice or using a build they don’t enjoy has killed more players than any amount of fake tanks and healers
I certainly agree with what you are saying. It is just a game at the end of the day; have fun.
The thing I wondered from my results, is where do the Devs scale to?
We see posts of "overland is too easy" but can clearly see that a "Meta" idea pulls over double a more basic crafted set-up (in Gold might I add!)0