The state of Heavy armor. Good Or Could it use buffs?

Nelson_Rebel

Pretty simple question. What with the additional damage buffs provided to staff users and the continuation of medium stam builds with the best single target damage, and bleeds/defile ingoring heavy armor resistance and heals..


Are heavy armor users really not very... defensible? There is so much penetration in the game with sets and CP in combination to bleeds, defile, and oblivion damage I can't help
but feel heavy armor users are really no threat at all.

I dont think Heavy armor should have
damage buffs though, I think Heavy amor's defensive bonuses should be looked at however. The Physical/spell resistance values particularly. Maybe double the resistance bonus. That way tanky builds aren't being shafted to less than 20 resistances by all the sets and other types of damage ignoring resistance

Savos_Saren

Other Option (Elaborate)

I think Heavy Armor needs some sort of passive ability to help it compete with bleeds or oblivion damage. For instance- maybe the fifth passive would give an automatic ##% mitigation to DoTs (like from the champion tree).

Even as a DK- I don't see the benefit of running heavy armor. Light or Medium gives better damage (PVP wise) and with the unmitigated/irresistible damage of bleeds and oblivion- why bother wearing heavy?

wsmith97ub17_ESO

Other Option (Elaborate)

There is a reason almost everyone in pvp uses it.

Ha way over-performs with certain sets.

Nelson_Rebel

Yes Buff Heavy Armor Resistance Values

Savos_Saren wrote: »

I think Heavy Armor needs some sort of passive ability to help it compete with bleeds or oblivion damage. For instance- maybe the fifth passive would give an automatic ##% mitigation to DoTs (like from the champion tree).

Even as a DK- I don't see the benefit of running heavy armor. Light or Medium gives better damage (PVP wise) and with the unmitigated/irresistible damage of bleeds and oblivion- why bother wearing heavy?

This is my thoughts exactly. Not to mention the resource return from heavy attacks ends up being even worse than the total reduce cost passives from Medium and Light because they are constant and heavy attacks are not garaunteed in a fight.


Then there is the Crafted Set fortified brass, Medium and light users can use that and get BETTER resistances while keeping all their Damage passives and their other set.

You could craft a heavy armor Brass set but then you'd still be useless, with Heavy armor passives that still would do nothing against bleeds and defiles.

There really is no reason to run Heavy other than to stack into health and try to face tank a few people with a partner and try to annoy people only to fail to 1 or 2 people with bleeds or defile

Nelson_Rebel

Yes Buff Heavy Armor Resistance Values

wsmith97ub17_ESO wrote: »

There is a reason almost everyone in pvp uses it.

Ha way over-performs with certain sets.

I dont see anyone wearing heavy anymore
besides actual tanks, and the occasional templar healer trying to be more survivable

White wabbit

Other Option (Elaborate)

Over performing needs rolling back

Nelson_Rebel

Yes Buff Heavy Armor Resistance Values

wsmith97ub17_ESO wrote: »

There is a reason almost everyone in pvp uses it.

Ha way over-performs with certain sets.

HA doesn't overperform with anything since its bonuses and Resistance are useless against bleeds and defiles or oblivion damage negating it all

Nelson_Rebel

Yes Buff Heavy Armor Resistance Values

White wabbit wrote: »

Over performing needs rolling back

Can I have the drugs you take? They are
OP

White wabbit

Other Option (Elaborate)

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

wsmith97ub17_ESO wrote: »

There is a reason almost everyone in pvp uses it.

Ha way over-performs with certain sets.

HA doesn't overperform with anything since its bonuses and Resistance are useless against bleeds and defiles or oblivion damage negating it all

If it's not over performing then why does over 75% of PvP players use it then

Nelson_Rebel

Yes Buff Heavy Armor Resistance Values

White wabbit wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

wsmith97ub17_ESO wrote: »

There is a reason almost everyone in pvp uses it.

Ha way over-performs with certain sets.

HA doesn't overperform with anything since its bonuses and Resistance are useless against bleeds and defiles or oblivion damage negating it all

If it's not over performing then why does over 75% of PvP players use it then

I see less than 10 people in cyro all on PvP cyro NA wear Heavy


Where tf you getting 75% people from lmao

White wabbit

Other Option (Elaborate)

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

White wabbit wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

wsmith97ub17_ESO wrote: »

There is a reason almost everyone in pvp uses it.

Ha way over-performs with certain sets.

HA doesn't overperform with anything since its bonuses and Resistance are useless against bleeds and defiles or oblivion damage negating it all

If it's not over performing then why does over 75% of PvP players use it then

I see less than 10 people in cyro all on PvP cyro NA wear Heavy


Where tf you getting 75% people from lmao

Must be living under a rock then

Nelson_Rebel

Yes Buff Heavy Armor Resistance Values

White wabbit wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

White wabbit wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

wsmith97ub17_ESO wrote: »

There is a reason almost everyone in pvp uses it.

Ha way over-performs with certain sets.

HA doesn't overperform with anything since its bonuses and Resistance are useless against bleeds and defiles or oblivion damage negating it all

If it's not over performing then why does over 75% of PvP players use it then

I see less than 10 people in cyro all on PvP cyro NA wear Heavy


Where tf you getting 75% people from lmao

Must be living under a rock then

Your shroom house definitely better than my rock though

Savos_Saren

Other Option (Elaborate)

Actually, there was a thread where the Developers gave the % of people wearing light vs heavy vs medium. If I recall correctly, very few people were actually wearing heavy armor. I'll see if I can find it.

Nelson_Rebel

Yes Buff Heavy Armor Resistance Values

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Actually, there was a thread where the Developers gave the % of people wearing light vs heavy vs medium. If I recall correctly, very few people were actually wearing heavy armor. I'll see if I can find it.

Preciate it


And the old sets that made HA strong were ultra nerfed to. Every single one, along with half the passives. Now Summerset is buffing LA and MA damage (indirectly with the stave buffs and continuation of bleeds and defiles meta) to be Far superior to the over nerfed HA


I dont think it's unreasonable to
buff the Heavy armor defense since all the passives it had, and the sets that were used were all subsequently nerfed in multiple patches, and now damage for DD's in light and medium are better than ever before.

It doesn't need damage buffs, but having no damage buffs along with the weakest passives of the 3 armors and half it's passives circumvented is to much

Xsorus

White wabbit wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

wsmith97ub17_ESO wrote: »

There is a reason almost everyone in pvp uses it.

Ha way over-performs with certain sets.

HA doesn't overperform with anything since its bonuses and Resistance are useless against bleeds and defiles or oblivion damage negating it all

If it's not over performing then why does over 75% of PvP players use it then

Completely ignoring that even when Heavy was used the most..50% of the players in the game pvping weren't using it....but since the game's to most played classes in PvP are Nightblades and Sorcs...neither which use Heavy Armor on really any of their builds... you will not have 75% of the players using it.

Nelson_Rebel

Yes Buff Heavy Armor Resistance Values

Xsorus wrote: »

White wabbit wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

wsmith97ub17_ESO wrote: »

There is a reason almost everyone in pvp uses it.

Ha way over-performs with certain sets.

HA doesn't overperform with anything since its bonuses and Resistance are useless against bleeds and defiles or oblivion damage negating it all

If it's not over performing then why does over 75% of PvP players use it then

Completely ignoring that even when Heavy was used the most..50% of the players in the game pvping weren't using it....but since the game's to most played classes in PvP are Nightblades and Sorcs...neither which use Heavy Armor on really any of their builds... you will not have 75% of the players using it.

Exactly


And since then HA passives were all also nerfed and the damage bonus completely removed, and also had the only really decent heavy sets nerfed on top of it all

Savos_Saren

Other Option (Elaborate)

I wonder where these guys are pulling their "75%" numbers from?

Nelson_Rebel

Yes Buff Heavy Armor Resistance Values

Savos_Saren wrote: »

I wonder where these guys are pulling their "75%" numbers from?

From where the Sun doesn't shine, and is their defining characteristic traits.


At least I wasn't giving out BS numbers, I just gave how many people I see actually wearing Heavy, which might just be outifits, and how
I personally see it.


I'm welcome to logical arguments just not liers with made up Numbers and Percentages lol

Savos_Saren

Other Option (Elaborate)

@ZOS_GinaBruno Would it be possible to pull those numbers again? I'm guessing Medium has the higher percentage with Light coming in second and Heavy as last.

I think it was @Zos_RichLambert that posted them last time.

Nelson_Rebel

Yes Buff Heavy Armor Resistance Values

Savos_Saren wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno Would it be possible to pull those numbers again? I'm guessing Medium has the higher percentage with Light coming in second and Heavy as last.

I think it was @Zos_RichLambert that posted them last time.

I think she's been on leave with summerset launch. This type of conversation isn't typically her area either.

I think @Wrobel is but he has never answered a question on here

Solariken

Other Option (Elaborate)

Heavy armor and heavy armor passives are totally fine. Bleeds, Oblivion damage, and Defiles are overtuned and the reason heavy armor feels bad.

Nelson_Rebel

Yes Buff Heavy Armor Resistance Values

Solariken wrote: »

Heavy armor and heavy armor passives are totally fine. Bleeds, Oblivion damage, and Defiles are overtuned and the reason heavy armor feels bad.

Maybe but they haven't done anything to balance penetration with all those things


Heavy armors been nerfed multiple times along with all of it's good sets while damage for staves and stam has been buffed

Aedaryl

No keep Heavy Armor less effective

Heavy armor is perfeclty balanced, no buff is needed, also, this poll is so biased you should feel ashamed for that.

Nelson_Rebel

Yes Buff Heavy Armor Resistance Values

Aedaryl wrote: »

Heavy armor is perfeclty balanced, no buff is needed, also, this poll is so biased you should feel ashamed for that.

The poll isn't biased, "No heavy armor should stay less effective" is NOT biased, because
it IS less effecive for damage in PvP, That is not opinion that is substantial fact for damage


I gave information based on actual ingame
reference why I think heavy isn't balanced (negatively not superiorily) because of bleeds, oblivion damage, defile being far superior to healing recieved or done (heavy passive), the multitude of nerfs to heavy armor since morrowind including the complete removal of damage passive nerfs to other passives, oh and also specific nerfs to the only good heavy sets ever used such as black rose and seventh legion


The increasing buffs to 2h set peices benifiting
more staff builds in addition to their already high penetration and critical damage, the continuation and improved use of defile and bleeds with greater buffs thanks to the 2h changes and making medium stam builds still far more damaging, more useful, and still have better mitigation from dodge now affecting several more skills than ever before.

The additon of sets like Fortified brass that allow medium and Light armor to have better resistance than Heavy armor sets while STILL retaining all of their respective passive damage effects with 30k resistances, while it's useless for heavy because Bleeds, defile, high penetration, and oblivion damage being more prevalent than ever before in ESO history.


You just saying "nope uh uh, everything is balanced because I'm not a heavy user and I say so" is actually the worst and most inadequate argument you could conceivably use and makes you look very uneducated

Jimmy_The_Fixer

Every answer in your poll assumes HA to be underpowered. There isn't even the option to say "Heavy Armor is balanced", just an option that says "Heavy armor is underperforming, but it should stay that way because of reasons".

If you didn't want to give people the option of disagreeing with you, why bother making it a poll?

Nelson_Rebel

Yes Buff Heavy Armor Resistance Values

Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »

Every answer in your poll assumes HA to be underpowered. There isn't even the option to say "Heavy Armor is balanced", just an option that says "Heavy armor is underperforming, but it should stay that way because of reasons".

If you didn't want to give people the option of disagreeing with you, why bother making it a poll?

Because it is Mathmatically impossible to say Heavy armor is doing anywhere near the damage levels of Medium or Light since Morrowind and the continual nerfs to it.



IF you have an Other opinion to prove me wrong, put it in "other" which shockingly enough means use an "Other" opinion and back it up with facts or at least a semi-intelligent opinion based on ingame references or your own personal experience as I have down from the original post all the way down to the very last post before yours

Jimmy_The_Fixer

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »

Every answer in your poll assumes HA to be underpowered. There isn't even the option to say "Heavy Armor is balanced", just an option that says "Heavy armor is underperforming, but it should stay that way because of reasons".

If you didn't want to give people the option of disagreeing with you, why bother making it a poll?

Because it is Mathmatically impossible to say Heavy armor is doing anywhere near the damage levels of Medium or Light since Morrowind and the continual nerfs to it.



IF you have an Other opinion to prove me wrong, put it in "other" which shockingly enough means use an "Other" opinion and back it up with facts or at least a semi-intelligent opinion based on ingame references or your own personal experience as I have down from the original post all the way down to the very last post before yours

Woah, calm down buddy, I was criticizing your tone, not your opinions.

Personally, I think that losing the SD/WD passive from getting hit made HA lose a little bit of gameplay flavor, it rewarded players for staying in the fight and basically using a brawler-type play style.

And constitution feels a little underwhelming compared to the LA and MA cost reduction passives, even though it gives both stats.

Try to be less angry.

Nelson_Rebel

Yes Buff Heavy Armor Resistance Values

Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »

Every answer in your poll assumes HA to be underpowered. There isn't even the option to say "Heavy Armor is balanced", just an option that says "Heavy armor is underperforming, but it should stay that way because of reasons".

If you didn't want to give people the option of disagreeing with you, why bother making it a poll?

Because it is Mathmatically impossible to say Heavy armor is doing anywhere near the damage levels of Medium or Light since Morrowind and the continual nerfs to it.



IF you have an Other opinion to prove me wrong, put it in "other" which shockingly enough means use an "Other" opinion and back it up with facts or at least a semi-intelligent opinion based on ingame references or your own personal experience as I have down from the original post all the way down to the very last post before yours

Woah, calm down buddy, I was criticizing your tone, not your opinions.

Personally, I think that losing the SD/WD passive from getting hit made HA lose a little bit of gameplay flavor, it rewarded players for staying in the fight and basically using a brawler-type play style.

And constitution feels a little underwhelming compared to the LA and MA cost reduction passives, even though it gives both stats.

Try to be less angry.

I'm generally an angry person. Working on it.



Anyways the tone of my original post wasn't meant to shut out opinions differing from my own. I just don't believe in mainstreaming delusion about wrong information. The problem is that heavy armors only useful passives are circumvented by two Readily available types of damage, and then ZoS added in sets and increased damage potential for the other two types of armor without compensating Heavy and kept the specific nerfs to both its damage capacity by removing the Wrath passive completely and then nerfed the sets that made heavy somewhat worthwhile.Black rose, Seventh legion, constitution passive, etc...


All in the meanwhile Fortified brass allowing medium and light to retain their damage passives yet have greater resistance unbalanced everything while keeping the Bleed, defile, oblivion meta even more effective for those armor types and Summerset only exacerbates it

Heavy has been forgotten by the dev's

BlackLabel

Other Option (Elaborate)

Biased poll options, and heavy is overperforming in pvp.

Nelson_Rebel

Yes Buff Heavy Armor Resistance Values

BlackLabel wrote: »

Biased poll options, and heavy is overperforming in pvp.

Incorrect labeling and no basis or refutable evidence to answer the Multiple points I've said in multiple posts to support your false claim


I swear it's like everyone puts on blinders that say "I ignore facts but you should listen to what I'm saying because I'm a potato chip eating child with no original thought process"

Vapirko

No keep Heavy Armor less effective

LMFAO. This post. A year ago people were screaming for heavy armor nerfs. Now they want it buffed

No heavy armor is still the premier armor for stam users in PvP. It performs very well and does not need a buff. If anything medium needs some help.

But to the people saying it’s over performing, this is also untrue. Heavy armor as far as the passives and current values are concerned is just fine.

And OP, double the resistances bonuses?? What? You think we need people going into PvP with 30k base resistances or more? Come on. Your poll is biased and just as uninformed as the responses that you’re deeming to “have blinders on.”