What's easiest role in the game?

Tasear

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raj72616a

fake dps

mocap

tank fcuz. You can't fail and you can easily blame other players . You don't need rotation and super-duper-trial-vma gear or god-like DPS. Your PUG finder almost instant. You pretty much never get kick from a dungeon.

However, your are some kind of a group leader, usually you have to go first, so must know dungeon well, like shortcuts, avoid unnecessary fights and boss mechanics (wall blocking, bash interrupting, "range pulling" technique etc).

BaneOfBattler

fake tank

Rohamad_Ali

Role Play .

UrbanMonk

Forum Warrior.

That counts as role. Right?

WillhelmBlack

Nightblade.

Asardes

I've played Tank the most and I also find it the hardest. Next is Melee DD since you need to pay more attention to mechanics while you are close to the boss, while Ranged DD is slightly easier since you have more leeway and shields. Also DD difficulty in executing the rotation varies greatly, with Stamina DK & Sorcerer being the easiest, and Magicka/Stamina NB being the hardest. I truly appreciate those people who are able to land light attacks perfectly, in a dynamic rotation at less than 20 FPS you get in some trial fights - for me that often sinks into single digits with 1s+ freezes and that's why I don't even attempt playing NB. I've completed exactly the same content as tank, melee DD and healer: all dungeons, all trials Craglorn HM and vMoL and the verdict stays the same - Healer is the easiest of them all and I find the least challenge in playing it.

mocap

Asardes wrote: »

I've played Tank the most and I also find it the hardest

You described ton of arguments why DD is hard, but literally no arguments about why tank is hardest.

Koensol

Lol at the people saying DPS. If it is so easy, then why are we seeing so many -10k dps in groupfinder? Healing is so mindnumbingly easy in this game they are not even needed outside of trials and some DLC dungeons.

BaneOfBattler

Koensol wrote: »

Lol at the people saying DPS. If it is so easy, then why are we seeing so many -10k dps in groupfinder? Healing is so mindnumbingly easy in this game they are not even needed outside of trials and some DLC dungeons.

Excuse me sir.
Name trials and dlc content that dont need healers.

SirCritical

Spectator

Seriously, if you want to do it properly, none of them is easy. If you're skilled enough, all of them are easy.

Sparr0w

BaneOfBattler wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Lol at the people saying DPS. If it is so easy, then why are we seeing so many -10k dps in groupfinder? Healing is so mindnumbingly easy in this game they are not even needed outside of trials and some DLC dungeons.

Excuse me sir.
Name trials and dlc content that dont need healers.

Outside of, meaning they are only really needed for trials and DLC dungeons.

Asardes

mocap wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

I've played Tank the most and I also find it the hardest

You described ton of arguments why DD is hard, but literally no arguments about why tank is hardest.

Well I've been talking about it literally for ages on other topics, so I didn't feel the need to reiterate here. I will make a few points here though:

1) The very high cost of mistakes - if you make a mistake as tank in a trial it is most likely a wipe, since resurrecting is not always practical. That's why the tank always needs to know all mechanics perfectly, and play according to them. That becomes more complicated when tanks have to focus specific mobs and even switch around rapidly to avoid being overwhelmed by certain mechanic (ex. the armor shatter in vMoL).

2) Resource management - you not only need those for blocking (stamina, or magicka transformed into stamina by various passives in the case of DK and Warden), but also need to use those resources active to keep various buffs and debuffs up. And that has been taking hit after hit for the last year or so: first with Morrowind came the big nerf to resource management, and the Igneous Shield nerf after that, then with Dragon Bones came a smaller nerf to block cost, when the formula was changed.

3) If you want to be a good tank, you have to wear only group utility sets, for example Ebon + Alkosh + Lord Warden/Thorvulkun is the most popular choice so you have to take care of the sustain issue regardless of those, including some rather unorthodox choices, such as using Balance for magicka sustain, since you can't build recovery without sacrificing utility; using such skills makes #1 even more complicated since you can get rekt very hard if lowering your health at a bad moment.

4) Also if you want to be a good tank you have to maximize the uptime on various debuffs, for example hit the synergies exactly 10s apart so to bring Alkosh uptimes closest possible to 100%; crusher uptime, Minor Maim, as well as other debuffs you have to keep track of. If those debuffs fall off, the group DPS will take a huge hit, or people will get one shot as maim on boss often reduces the damage from some environmental AoE. Again those become much harder in dynamic fights, especially where you need to separate from the boss, compared to static ones. For example Alkosh alone boosts group DPS by at least 6% and infused Crusher by 4%. In hard modes that can be the difference between a very good score and an hour of wipes.

To conclude it, being a good tank is orders of magnitude harder than being a mediocre one that just taunts and blocks, in the same way being a good DD is orders of magnitude harder than being a 2 skill & light attack spammer, and in the same way being a good healer is orders of magnitude harder than being a BoL or Matriarch spammer.

Sparr0w

All depends on what content you're running & what class you play. In trials that don't dps check being a DPS is probably the easiest role, else healer is probably the easiest.

mocap

Asardes wrote: »

Well I've been talking about it literally for ages on other topics, so I didn't feel the need to reiterate here. I will make a few points here though:.

1) The very high cost of mistakes
as well as everybody else, especially healer. However, healer can be oneshoted like wet noodle, can't say it about tank. My fat tank use block rarely, cuz 17K Igneous shield spam (and 7K for group) is all i need.

2) Resource management
don't see any problems here. I've already bought Plague Doctor ice staff for my Summerset tank, think i will have no problems with magicka sustain. Though i have no problems with it even now, except Chain spamming situations... Blockade of Frost, here i come )

3) If you want to be a good tank + Also if you want to be a good tank #2
Trials. You mean good tank in trials. For vet dungeons you don't need anything like that.

To conclude it
Well, i agree here. BUT, good tank in dungeons mostly taunt and not die, and it's easy as i dunno what. Good DD in dungeon is like 25K self-buff dps and it will require waaaay more player skill and gear.

Since OP didn't state easiest role "in dungeons or trials", i'm talking about dungeons )

Asardes

Roles don't really come into their own until you start doing veteran trials. Most dungeons in this game can be done with 4 DDs with self heals, one of them slots a taunt and shields trough. So that's why I was emphasizing the trial part because they are orders of magnitude harder, and you have to do your job properly, under very high pressure to succeed. Nobody builds for City of Ash or Fungal Grotto or prides himself tanking that

Runefang

Difficultly for me is based on what the content demands of you. A great player, in any role and in any content, will provide value to a group of any size. Also difficulty and level of responsibility have no correlation. A healer has to keep a group alive for example, if they fail to fulfill their role then the group wipes. It doesn't then follow that its hard to keep the group alive, its just important.

With all that said, I think healing is the easiest role. Healers in a decent group will often have the least intensive workload when it comes to hard content. There are exceptions to this of course and some boss encounters are harder on healers than other roles.

mocap

Asardes wrote: »

Roles don't really come into their own until you start doing veteran trials.

Disagree here ) Especially in PUG dungeons. It's like PvP - nobody knows what team you will get. And if you measure the entire game with trials only, which like 1% of the players base do, then it's kinda narrow-minded thinking.

Koensol

BaneOfBattler wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Lol at the people saying DPS. If it is so easy, then why are we seeing so many -10k dps in groupfinder? Healing is so mindnumbingly easy in this game they are not even needed outside of trials and some DLC dungeons.

Excuse me sir.
Name trials and dlc content that dont need healers.

Read my post again. I literally said "Outside of trials and some dlc dungeons." DLC dungeons like mazzatun, WGT, ICP and probably some others also, don't require a healer but are easier to do with 3 dd + tank. vDSA also doesn't require healer.

Mureel

Koensol wrote: »

Lol at the people saying DPS. If it is so easy, then why are we seeing so many -10k dps in groupfinder? Healing is so mindnumbingly easy in this game they are not even needed outside of trials and some DLC dungeons.

Healers are not unnecessary because healing is easy LOL!

Healers are becoming obsolete in all PVE scenarios but buffybots in trials because: self heals/shields/power creep and all End Game mechanics are 1 shot or do nearly nothing.

Not saying healing is hard - but that's not why you don't need them.

Asardes

mocap wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

Roles don't really come into their own until you start doing veteran trials.

Disagree here ) Especially in PUG dungeons. It's like PvP - nobody knows what team you will get. And if you measure the entire game with trials only, which like 1% of the players base do, then it's kinda narrow-minded thinking.

In PuG groups you are actually rewarded for not doing your designated role but compensating, and to a large extent carrying the group as DD with a taunt on the bar. Bring a proper buff tank or healer in a group with 2 lousy DDs that can't even do 10K and you'll have trouble finishing even simple veteran dungeons like Wayrest Sewers 1. What can my Alkosh do for a group that can't even kill the rat packs at the start of that dungeon? That's if the "healer" can find where the shards or orbs are in the skill menu to help me proc it. I can taunt those and apply and reapply Major Fracture & Breach and Crusher a dozen times, and still they won't die if the DPS isn't there. I know this pretty well, since I've tanked PuGs almost exclusively for my first year in game. I can't count the number of times I felt powerless because there wasn't a bit I could do to offset the lack of DPS although I was doing my tanking properly. As for PvP, you don't have a pure tank build there, but rather people who often have high burst, but also high mitigation.

Anotherone773

Assuming that everyone is doing there job properly and satisfactorily...

DPS is the easiest overall. Once you can manage good dps, your job is done. Stay out of the red, occasionally something else may be required of you outside of your "rotations", but for the most part you have a factory job and repeat the same thing over and over. You also dont need to do stellar dps to be viable. What is needed to clear content is far lower than the impression that others gives in game and on the forums. The dps needed to clear content isnt really hard to achieve. It just takes a bit of practice and caring and your done.

Heals is the next easiest. Healing is not as easy as it looks. You just dont sit there and spam HoTs. You often have to chase players to heal them and with some mechanics in some very large boss "rooms" it requires you to do a lot of running while trying to dodge various mechanics. You also have to keep buffs up on all group members and for some buffs like combat prayer which has a small cone in front of you this requires either constant repositioning, while dodging red, or an excessive amount of magicka. Some of the new content has damage from new and multiple sources, such as scalecallers, which becomes more demanding on a healer.

Hardest is the tank. A good tank will keep mobs off the dps and more importantly the healer. They can manage their resources so they can taunt, buff, debuff, and do a little damage. They also have to know boss mechanics much better such as which way to turn the boss, where to "place" the boss, and when to interrupt. Tanking is the most complex and difficult to learn as they dont get to just learn a rotation and general boss mechanics, their role is the most involved which is why very few people can do it well.


All of that changes if someone in the group fails at their role or dies. A bad tank means the dps and healer are tanking more. This makes it harder to dps but makes it far harder to heal. As everyone is taking a lot more damage and the healer often can be blocked from moving freely by trash and adds. Bad heals and DPS and the tank have to become more self reliant on healing and lose buffs. The overall group effectiveness drops considerably as everyone goes into survival mode. Bad DPS means the tank has to tank longer and healer has to heal longer. In some cases the tank and healer have to try to dps to make up for lack of dps.

So if everyone is doing their job, dps is the easiest. If someone fails, then the other roles become harder as they have to compensate for the shortcoming.

Anotherone773

Asardes wrote: »

Roles don't really come into their own until you start doing veteran trials. Most dungeons in this game can be done with 4 DDs with self heals, one of them slots a taunt and shields trough. So that's why I was emphasizing the trial part because they are orders of magnitude harder, and you have to do your job properly, under very high pressure to succeed. Nobody builds for City of Ash or Fungal Grotto or prides himself tanking that

There is a big difference in what is possible and what the general player base is capable of. 50% plus of the player base couldnt even do nFG I without a healer little lone something that is hard.

Asardes

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

Roles don't really come into their own until you start doing veteran trials. Most dungeons in this game can be done with 4 DDs with self heals, one of them slots a taunt and shields trough. So that's why I was emphasizing the trial part because they are orders of magnitude harder, and you have to do your job properly, under very high pressure to succeed. Nobody builds for City of Ash or Fungal Grotto or prides himself tanking that

There is a big difference in what is possible and what the general player base is capable of. 50% plus of the player base couldnt even do nFG I without a healer little lone something that is hard.

I was talking about things are objectively hard, not subjectively hard because people play badly. For example if they only light and heavy attack even some overland mobs are hard - I've seen maximum CP players not specced as tanks struggling with trash mobs in base game area. But content being "hard" because you don't even bother reading the tool tips on skills - seriously, I've met plenty of people in PuGs that didn't even bother to do that and I had to point out to them where that skill was and what it did - is simply laziness, and ultimately lack of respect for the people you might be playing with. In fact the most toxic attitudes I've faced in game came from such players, that didn't have the slightest idea, but then proceeded to curse you when you politely suggested something about their gameplay. As for tanking normal instances, I've tanked (Inner Rage instead of Inner Light) & carried (~60% DPS) a group in normal Bloodroot Forge on my magicka Sorcerer during the random dungeon event in December. Does that mean I tanked that properly? Or does it mean that you can pretty much tank it with anything and succeed because it doesn't need a tank. That's the case with 90% of group content in this game.

BejaProphet

DD Role

Damage dealers have a low threshold for entry level skill, in that their mistakes don't immediately cause wipes. If you can pull 10k DPS, a stable tank and healer will see you through most content. But beyond that, DD has perhaps the greatest journey between "acceptable" and "spectacular." The upper end takes extreme skill and the effect of that skill is so noticeable that it can immediately trivialize content. And that takes amazing skill.

Tank Role

Tank role probably takes the highest entry level of skill of all roles. The reasons being pretty well articulated so far by @Asardes plus a high need to know the content already. But beyond that it is a short journey from sufficient tank to spectacular tank (compared to other classes.) Many aspects of tanking are simply pass fail. Now there is room for growth and increased skill will show and help the group, but its not the dramatic difference you see in DD role.

Healer Role

Healer role is ridiculous. As healer it can go from being so easy it is unnecessary to an impossible job that nobody could succeed at in the span of a single dungeon. The reason being is that the difficulty of your job is directly determined by the competence of the other players. One second everything is easy and I can simply leave ritual of retribution up and that is sufficient heals, and the next minute all discipline breaks down and people are fighting individual battles in vastly different areas and all of them are loosing and you have to support each private battle. Lone Ranger is standing in red, the tank is dual wielding, the entire battle is a foot chase so you can't place springs etc etc. Healing can be the easiest role or the hardest and its always based on other people whether it is difficult or not.

That said, going in with a plan to do nothing but heal is often a pretty easy job. Going in and maximizing your value to the group does take a good bit more skill. Because now you are healing, buffing and DPS'ing and trying to know from every changing moment to moment which is most needed.

Priyasekarssk

raj72616a wrote: »

fake dps

BaneOfBattler wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Lol at the people saying DPS. If it is so easy, then why are we seeing so many -10k dps in groupfinder? Healing is so mindnumbingly easy in this game they are not even needed outside of trials and some DLC dungeons.

Excuse me sir.
Name trials and dlc content that dont need healers.

All dungoens including DLC. But, trials Healer is must. Same question. Could you please give me a dungeon name where healer makes a difference ?

Priyasekarssk

.

Priyasekarssk

BaneOfBattler wrote: »

fake tank

What a nuisance poll ? In fact Tank is most difficult one. With no group taunts , moving bosses, spaming AOEs. Tanking is easier in vet dungoens? Even tanks have to handle stupid one shot mechanics in DLC dungeons. Tanking is difficult role to fill in ESO and everyone agrees without question except noobs. Despite all this , tanks have to have all taunts active and manage the group mobs. Besides all this tanks have to manage resources and have to familiar with dungeon mechanics , alert all team members during boss crazy moves. Tanks role play huge and important role in dungeon outcome. DPS comes second.

FYI , I am a dps. I completely agree tank is difficult role to play. I dont say tank is weaker except group or AOE taunt. Even CP 200 player can survive a vet DLC dungeon on hard mode comfortably. It just requires more skill.

DPS comes second. Healer is easiest of all 3. Especially fake healer. Just stand in the back and see what other doing.
Fake healer is the easiest roll to fill. Just go with fake tanks for vet dungeons and trials on hard mode. Group wipe confirmed. I can take a fake healer any day for a fake tank.

Vet Trials its different story.

Cheetac19

BejaProphet wrote: »

Healer Role

Healer role is ridiculous. As healer it can go from being so easy it is unnecessary to an impossible job that nobody could succeed at in the span of a single dungeon. The reason being is that the difficulty of your job is directly determined by the competence of the other players. One second everything is easy and I can simply leave ritual of retribution up and that is sufficient heals, and the next minute all discipline breaks down and people are fighting individual battles in vastly different areas and all of them are loosing and you have to support each private battle. Lone Ranger is standing in red, the tank is dual wielding, the entire battle is a foot chase so you can't place springs etc etc. Healing can be the easiest role or the hardest and its always based on other people whether it is difficult or not.

That said, going in with a plan to do nothing but heal is often a pretty easy job. Going in and maximizing your value to the group does take a good bit more skill. Because now you are healing, buffing and DPS'ing and trying to know from every changing moment to moment which is most needed.

You hit the nail on the head here. I main a healer and when I'm willing my group of friends it's easy as hell. Drop some HoTs, drop some DoTs and just keep the cycle going. Hell usually I can just drop some Ritual of Retribution, Mutagen, and just spear away. But they've certainly had their moments, and randoms as well. It's hard to heal when the entire group is running around like chickens with their heads cut off, all the while I'm telling them if they'd just hold still I could heal them lol. I, personally, think healer is hardest, but I've never done tank and I get thrown into groups with randoms a lot, so I'm biased.

kylewwefan

Healer or tank is the easiest to get into stuff with.

When I’m in a normal dungeon, I’d rather my healer be a StamSorc.