Sloads Sembance suggestion

Zophix

I think the problem with sloads isn't the oblivion damage itself or how much it does, but instead the counter play to the effect. I'm not talking about counter play to oblivion damage however, because there is a counter to it called healing. The whole point of oblivion damage is to counter blocking and shield stacking, thus forcing them to consider other defensive options. Previously there were only 3 sources of oblivion damage, Damage Health Glyph, Knight-Slayer Set and Shield-breaker set which are fine. Knight-slayer paired with an oblivion damage glyph can provide some damage, but heavy attacks are not quick enough to make the set over perform. Shield-breaker is absolutely useless against anyone that doesn't use a shield.

The sloads sembance set however is the epitome of all arguments against the previously existing forms of oblivion damage. Aside from healing there is only one counter play to it and that is purging the effect, which is realistically only viable as a Templar. In my opinion the problem with sloads isn't the type of damage being done, but the cumulative amount because of the proc rate. Sloads is over performing.

I have a few suggestions and they are;

1. Change what procs the effect:
Damaging a blocking or shielded enemy has a 10% chance to put a Leeching Shadow on them, dealing 853 Oblivion Damage every 1 second for 6 seconds. This effect can occur every 6 seconds.

2. Change the proc rate:
Damaging an enemy has a 10% chance to put a Leeching Shadow on them, dealing 853 Oblivion Damage every 1 second for 6 seconds. This effect can occur every 12 seconds.

3. Change the Damage:
Damaging an enemy has a 10% chance to put a Leeching Shadow on them, dealing 550 Oblivion Damage every 1 second for 6 seconds. This effect can occur every 6 seconds.

4. Add counter-play:
Damaging an enemy has a 10% chance to put a Leeching Shadow on them, dealing 853 Oblivion Damage every 1 second for 6 seconds. This effect can occur every 6 seconds. This effect can be removed by Break Free.

Please feel free to provide anymore suggestions but keep the conversation on topic.

Qbiken

My biggest concern is if multiple sources of Sload´s can stack. There needs to be some sort of "immunity" when you´ve the Sload-DoT on you, so you can´t have more than one at the time.

ToRelax

Oblivion damage not only ignores block and damage shields, but also resistances, maim and protection. I have trouble taking you serious when you say other sources of it are fine, too.
I'm pretty sure the issue is, in fact, the damage type which ignores any and all mitigation. The stacking part is terrible as well of course, but it wouldn't even be an issue if the set didn't deal Oblivion damage to begin with.

Strider__Roshin

Considering how many sources of anti-dodge rolling there are in this game I think this set is on the weak side. Should it nerfed? Ultimately I would say yes, but there's a long list of anti-dodge rolling abilities/sets that need to be nerfed before/with it. Considering how tanky players have gotten with damage shields and mitigation this set is a great means of combating such play styles. I just hope Sload's Semblance can't stack on the same individual like curse can.

Murador178

Daus wrote: »

Considering how many sources of anti-dodge rolling there are in this game I think this set is on the weak side. Should it nerfed? Ultimately I would say yes, but there's a long list of anti-dodge rolling abilities/sets that need to be nerfed before/with it. Considering how tanky players have gotten with damage shields and mitigation this set is a great means of combating such play styles. I just hope Sload's Semblance can't stack on the same individual like curse can.

This is set is especially strong vs stam nbs(no cloak), mag nbs, sorcs without mutagen and templars

Strider__Roshin

Murador178 wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Considering how many sources of anti-dodge rolling there are in this game I think this set is on the weak side. Should it nerfed? Ultimately I would say yes, but there's a long list of anti-dodge rolling abilities/sets that need to be nerfed before/with it. Considering how tanky players have gotten with damage shields and mitigation this set is a great means of combating such play styles. I just hope Sload's Semblance can't stack on the same individual like curse can.

This is set is especially strong vs stam nbs(no cloak), mag nbs, sorcs without mutagen and templars

Oh I know, the fact that it removes Nightblades from cloak is great. I'll no longer need to rely on detection pots

Strider__Roshin

Shouldn't people be loving this set for that reason alone? It deletes the Nightblade's main source of survivability: invisibility.

Murador178

Daus wrote: »

Shouldn't people be loving this set for that reason alone? It deletes the Nightblade's main source of survivability: invisibility.

and it kills main def off mSorc awesome... - and it does more dmg then any other set except maybe zaan - but its reliable zaan isnt

Strider__Roshin

Murador178 wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Shouldn't people be loving this set for that reason alone? It deletes the Nightblade's main source of survivability: invisibility.

and it kills main def off mSorc awesome... - and it does more dmg then any other set except maybe zaan - but its reliable zaan isnt

Which damage shields are too strong as it is so it sounds like this set is a good thing

Derra

Daus wrote: »

Murador178 wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Shouldn't people be loving this set for that reason alone? It deletes the Nightblade's main source of survivability: invisibility.

and it kills main def off mSorc awesome... - and it does more dmg then any other set except maybe zaan - but its reliable zaan isnt

Which damage shields are too strong as it is so it sounds like this set is a good thing

Except that not fixing the underlying problem but instead going for bandaid fixes isn´t only lazy but also bad for the game.

Strider__Roshin

Derra wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Murador178 wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Shouldn't people be loving this set for that reason alone? It deletes the Nightblade's main source of survivability: invisibility.

and it kills main def off mSorc awesome... - and it does more dmg then any other set except maybe zaan - but its reliable zaan isnt

Which damage shields are too strong as it is so it sounds like this set is a good thing

Except that not fixing the underlying problem but instead going for bandaid fixes isn´t only lazy but also bad for the game.

You're right so I'm all for removing the band-aid once the underlying problem is fixed

josiahva

So...a 10% chance to proc what amounts to 4800 damage over 6 seconds?(halve that for PvP at 2400). Sorry, I fail to see that this will be much problem, not to mention the fact you have to DAMAGE the enemy first...meaning you must first TAKE THEIR SHIELDS DOWN to apply this, since otherwise the damage is simply absorbed. At least according to the way its worded...maybe I am wrong, but 2400 damage over 6 seconds doesn't seem particularly strong. Am I missing something?

_Ahala_

I don’t believe oblivion damage is reduced by battle spirit... am I wrong

Btw yes just like shieldbreaker this proc ignores shields... damages health pool regardless of shield or mitigation

Synapsis123

josiahva wrote: »

So...a 10% chance to proc what amounts to 4800 damage over 6 seconds?(halve that for PvP at 2400). Sorry, I fail to see that this will be much problem, not to mention the fact you have to DAMAGE the enemy first...meaning you must first TAKE THEIR SHIELDS DOWN to apply this, since otherwise the damage is simply absorbed. At least according to the way its worded...maybe I am wrong, but 2400 damage over 6 seconds doesn't seem particularly strong. Am I missing something?

Oblivion damage ignores shields and bypasses battle spirit. It's effectively 800 dps in pvp that you can't do anything about other than out heal or cleanse.

Zophix

ToRelax wrote: »

Oblivion damage not only ignores block and damage shields, but also resistances, maim and protection. I have trouble taking you serious when you say other sources of it are fine, too.

The point of oblivion damage is to ignore block, shields, resistances and mitigation. The reason is to encourage those types of builds to consider other options either defensively (more healing vs. block/shielding) or offensively (more damage to force pressure on the attacker using oblivion damage). This is where sloads comes in to play, even if you were to pressure a player using sloads, the proc rate/type is occurring through any damage even when the player is on the defensive.

Other sources of oblivion damage have been and are still fine and are not over performing. Unless I'm missing something we'd be seeing tons of Knight-Slayer plus oblivion damage enchant builds if it was over performing, which I'm just not seeing.

Zophix

Murador178 wrote: »

This is set is especially strong vs stam nbs(no cloak), mag nbs, sorcs without mutagen and templars

Templars are the strongest counter to this set because it can be cleansed.

Zophix

josiahva wrote: »

So...a 10% chance to proc what amounts to 4800 damage over 6 seconds?(halve that for PvP at 2400). Sorry, I fail to see that this will be much problem, not to mention the fact you have to DAMAGE the enemy first...meaning you must first TAKE THEIR SHIELDS DOWN to apply this, since otherwise the damage is simply absorbed. At least according to the way its worded...maybe I am wrong, but 2400 damage over 6 seconds doesn't seem particularly strong. Am I missing something?

So 853x6=5,118 so just a bit more than 4800 and no currently on the pts you do not have to take their shields down for it to proc. Unresistible or Oblivion damage is not reduced by battle-spirit.

arkansas_ESO

I get why they chose a damage type that isn't affected by any CP or gear bonuses to help the set work for the hybrid builds it was intended for, but Oblivion damage shouldn't be this easy to obtain for how many things it ignores (battle spirit, resistances, shields, maim, protection, etc.)

Strider__Roshin

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

I get why they chose a damage type that isn't affected by any CP or gear bonuses to help the set work for the hybrid builds it was intended for, but Oblivion damage shouldn't be this easy to obtain for how many things it ignores (battle spirit, resistances, shields, maim, protection, etc.)

And undodgeable attacks shouldn't hit for ridiculous amounts of damage, but we have Soul Assault, Zaan, Destro Ult, Radiant Destruction, Curse, etc. All of which you can absorb with damage shields.

arkansas_ESO

Zophix wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Oblivion damage not only ignores block and damage shields, but also resistances, maim and protection. I have trouble taking you serious when you say other sources of it are fine, too.

The point of oblivion damage is to ignore block, shields, resistances and mitigation. The reason is to encourage those types of builds to consider other options either defensively (more healing vs. block/shielding) or offensively (more damage to force pressure on the attacker using oblivion damage). This is where sloads comes in to play, even if you were to pressure a player using sloads, the proc rate/type is occurring through any damage even when the player is on the defensive.

Other sources of oblivion damage have been and are still fine and are not over performing. Unless I'm missing something we'd be seeing tons of Knight-Slayer plus oblivion damage enchant builds if it was over performing, which I'm just not seeing.

Knight Slayer isn't Sload's. Knight Slayer has a proc condition with a clear visual indicator (the heavy attack animation), can be dodged (unless lightning or resto heavy), can be LOSed, can be cloaked, and so on. Sload procs on all damage, including every tick of a DOT, and it's cooldown is exactly as long as it's duration. You'll be able to keep a near 100% uptime on the Sload proc easily and without having to do anything in addition to what you're already doing--it's free damage.

arkansas_ESO

Daus wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

I get why they chose a damage type that isn't affected by any CP or gear bonuses to help the set work for the hybrid builds it was intended for, but Oblivion damage shouldn't be this easy to obtain for how many things it ignores (battle spirit, resistances, shields, maim, protection, etc.)

And undodgeable attacks shouldn't hit for ridiculous amounts of damage, but we have Soul Assault, Zaan, Destro Ult, Radiant Destruction, Curse, etc. All of which you can absorb with damage shields.

And yet undodgeable flame lashes and undodgeable cliff racers were removed from the game, so I can't see why we should keep adding in things that ignore defensive mechanics entirely.

Waffennacht

I hate your ideas

Plus, you haven't proven that sloads should be changed yet alone to the piles you have suggested

Derra

josiahva wrote: »

So...a 10% chance to proc what amounts to 4800 damage over 6 seconds?(halve that for PvP at 2400). Sorry, I fail to see that this will be much problem, not to mention the fact you have to DAMAGE the enemy first...meaning you must first TAKE THEIR SHIELDS DOWN to apply this, since otherwise the damage is simply absorbed. At least according to the way its worded...maybe I am wrong, but 2400 damage over 6 seconds doesn't seem particularly strong. Am I missing something?

It deals 5900 dmg over 6s in pvp it hits 7 times not 6 as it has an initial tick at second 0 (which means it´s equivalent to a tooltip dot of ~11500 dmg if the target has 0 resistances - if you do the math on high resi targets it´s easily worth 14 to 20k tooltip dmg depending on the users critical rating. Not too bad for a 6s dot).

This is true dmg that you can only heal through. It´s unaffected by shields or block and ofcourse it proccs on shields.
It breaks cloak.

So yeah everything you´ve stated is wrong.

I think it´s also not purgeable )because obliviondmg isn´t counterable by anything but healing) but can´t confirm that right now.

Bergzorn

Daus wrote: »

Considering how many sources of anti-dodge rolling there are in this game I think this set is on the weak side. Should it nerfed? Ultimately I would say yes, but there's a long list of anti-dodge rolling abilities/sets that need to be nerfed before/with it. Considering how tanky players have gotten with damage shields and mitigation this set is a great means of combating such play styles. I just hope Sload's Semblance can't stack on the same individual like curse can.

Enjoy some undogeable Sloads damage proced by all the undogeable damage on top of all the undogable damage.

kojou

Am I the only one that thinks this set won't be a big deal?

Waffennacht

kojou wrote: »

Am I the only one that thinks this set won't be a big deal?

I don't know how to say this...

But those with little PvP top end experience think little of this set. No you are not alone, but just are not correct.

I don't mean to be a jerkin, it's the only way I can explain it

Strider__Roshin

Bergzorn wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Considering how many sources of anti-dodge rolling there are in this game I think this set is on the weak side. Should it nerfed? Ultimately I would say yes, but there's a long list of anti-dodge rolling abilities/sets that need to be nerfed before/with it. Considering how tanky players have gotten with damage shields and mitigation this set is a great means of combating such play styles. I just hope Sload's Semblance can't stack on the same individual like curse can.

Enjoy some undogeable Sloads damage proced by all the undogeable damage on top of all the undogable damage.

I don't mind Sload's being undodgeable as long as you can't block it nor shield it either. It's the unfairness that I can't stand.

kojou

Waffennacht wrote: »

kojou wrote: »

Am I the only one that thinks this set won't be a big deal?

I don't know how to say this...

But those with little PvP top end experience think little of this set. No you are not alone, but just are not correct.

I don't mean to be a jerkin, it's the only way I can explain it

I realize I don't PvP on the "Top End", I mean my toons don't even have special characters in their names...

Less than 1000 damage every second seems pretty easy to heal through unless you are a 1VXer with special characters in their name and then I don't really care because they all run cheese builds anyway and one good cheese deserves another...

I still think this is way overblown.

JPcrazysquirrel3

Really? Because I love this set as it is, viable in PvE and definitely viable for PvP! And it procs Skoria! This is the answer to shield-stacking, rubber-band builds.

Zos nerfed shields and recovery with the Morrowind release and all those types of players found ways around it. Now, the rest of us have the option to utilize a set that can effectively disrupt those playstyles. Yet, you want that taken away? Let me guess, you play shield-stackers?
Tbh, you guys will still probably find a way around this too.

(before anyone mentions it, yes, I have a sorc, DK, and templar, and have tried the whole shield-stacking thing,...I hated it, it's not fun, it's not challenging, there's nothing revolutionary or innovative about it)

You guys want to complain that using Sload's is too dirty, but you use poisons right? Poisons in ESO are truly "fighting dirty" and I refuse to use them (among other reasons) and hate when I can tell that they were used on me. I'll craft them for people in my guilds if they need some, but I personally do not like to use them.

But to get back on point, I think you all are blowing this set out of proportion, as per usual with most new things in PTS, and while I believe that it should be left as is, knowing Zos, they'll probably nerf it into Oblivion before it goes live anyways.



*pun intended*

Bergzorn

Daus wrote: »

Bergzorn wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Considering how many sources of anti-dodge rolling there are in this game I think this set is on the weak side. Should it nerfed? Ultimately I would say yes, but there's a long list of anti-dodge rolling abilities/sets that need to be nerfed before/with it. Considering how tanky players have gotten with damage shields and mitigation this set is a great means of combating such play styles. I just hope Sload's Semblance can't stack on the same individual like curse can.

Enjoy some undogeable Sloads damage proced by all the undogeable damage on top of all the undogable damage.

I don't mind Sload's being undodgeable as long as you can't block it nor shield it either. It's the unfairness that I can't stand.

I see, but it is still unfair. Maybe Oblivion damage should reduce the targets max health by the amount of the damage done for xx seconds (on top of the unresistable damage done). It should also snare. I'm not serious btw.

The game has defense mechanisms and counters:

strong healing vs defile
dodge vs undogeable damage
block vs unblockable damage
shields vs sustained damage
resistance vs penetration

These mechanisms should be balanced against each other. I don't mind a little bit of Oblivion damage on top, I use the infused glyph myself to increase the pressure against shields and block. However, increasing the available sources of Oblivion damage in PvP is not healthy IMO, does not really help with balance, and has a good potential to hurt build diversity.

I'll wait and see how things work out. I'm just dissapointed because I was looking forward to some new crafted sets, not premium cheese.

Mayrael

So... This goes through shields, block, dodge, cloak? Nice, I want it Looks pretty fair to me (in contrast to shield breaker). My only concern is stacking. It shouldn't stack as this can lead to real drama... This set can be easy outhealed by mutagen/rapid regen or vigor, skills that are available to everyone... What is more important, can we get rid of shield breaker already?