Maelstrom/Master Weapons will become obsolete?

Æterny

With summerset update making possible to have two 5 set pieces + Monster set, Maestrom/Master weapons will still be worth using?
Other than Master Bow, i don't see it being good. What do you guys think?

AzraelKrieg

They won't be obsolete.

Tasear

5 guidance (back bar it)
5 spell power cure
2 monster set
1 arena staff

kiLLahweSPe

there is no replacement for the vma bow and destro, they are just too powerful for 1 slot weapons

Sparr0w

Nope still provide more power, the extra set bonus just cushions the gap.

Asardes

Maelstrom Bow & Destro staff effects are quite strong, and back bar lack of stats doesn't matter as much.
Maelstrom 2W may become good again, since I've heard they fixed the bug with bleed, trap and poison injection consuming the bonus damage.
Master Resto is still strong, and stamina DDs will become more reliant on support since the HA damage is reduced and LA damage is increased, so they will have to maintain mostly a LA rotation.
Master Destro is still very useful for the hard hitting Reach/Clench skill mostly for PvP
Master 2W & 2H are very useful for PvP bleed builds
Master Bow is really good for PvP and not much behind Maelstrom in PvE
Asylum 2H is still good for PvP for the ultimate gain, not so much for PvE since 2H is falling behind
Asylym Destro is still BiS for most classes, since even NBs will be switching to Force Pulse due to Strife cost increase

Maelstrom 2H, 1H+S, Master 1H+S, Asylum 1H+S, 2W, Bow will be weak or niche next patch too.

Kalante

Maelstrom weapons are basically non existent in pvp right now. ZOS has successfully put maelstrom weapons in par with those generic white weapons we all used to steal in davon's watch when we first started playing the game. Let that sink into your head. Nobody uses them in pvp.

Asardes

2H Maelstrom got hit by 2 separate nerfs:
- the removal of the stat bonus 189 WD
- the gap closer damage reduction by ~40%
- they did buff the damage from the special effect slightly, but it's negligible in PvP and is comparable to health recovery, when accounting for battle spirit and mitigation (it's not a bleed so it's mitigated by armor)
So right now the weapon is basically just for show, it does't do anything for you.

IMO trial/arena weapons should get back their 1p bonus, albeit standardized to be in line with other set bonuses of the same type. This way they will really work as 2 piece sets, while retaining their own unique bonus, and still be balanced. For example the Maelstrom 2H will get back 129 weapon damage and Master's restoration staff 1096 maximum magicka.

Vaoh

kiLLahweSPe wrote: »

there is no replacement for the vma bow and destro, they are just too powerful for 1 slot weapons

Yes, but in Summerset they’re no longer 1-slot weapons. They take up 2 slots.

I doubt the vMA bow could get replaced, but I’m thinking it might be worth replacing a Maelstrom Staff in order to run something like 5x Moondancer. Haven’t tested this but I find it hard to believe that a Maelstrom Staff beats Moondancer’s buff + free 1x Spell Damage bonus on backbar.

At the very least they won’t be as far ahead in DPS as they are now.

Royaji

Vaoh wrote: »

kiLLahweSPe wrote: »

there is no replacement for the vma bow and destro, they are just too powerful for 1 slot weapons

Yes, but in Summerset they’re no longer 1-slot weapons. They take up 2 slots.

I doubt the vMA bow could get replaced, but I’m thinking it might be worth replacing a Maelstrom Staff in order to run something like 5x Moondancer. Haven’t tested this but I find it hard to believe that a Maelstrom Staff beats Moondancer’s buff + free 1x Spell Damage bonus on backbar.

At the very least they won’t be as far ahead in DPS as they are now.

And where do you expect to find enough synergies? Unless you are melee there is not enough synergies around to make Moondancer 5 piece viable. Especially if you have several DDs running it. Unless changes to acuity happen maelstrom destro will probably stay in it's BiS place.

Bbsample197

Vaoh wrote: »

kiLLahweSPe wrote: »

there is no replacement for the vma bow and destro, they are just too powerful for 1 slot weapons

Yes, but in Summerset they’re no longer 1-slot weapons. They take up 2 slots.

I doubt the vMA bow could get replaced, but I’m thinking it might be worth replacing a Maelstrom Staff in order to run something like 5x Moondancer. Haven’t tested this but I find it hard to believe that a Maelstrom Staff beats Moondancer’s buff + free 1x Spell Damage bonus on backbar.

At the very least they won’t be as far ahead in DPS as they are now.

as for moondancer, you only need the 5 pc bonus on one bar you dont need to double bar it so you can leave the other slot for a VMA staff

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Tasear wrote: »

5 guidance (back bar it)
5 spell power cure
2 monster staff
1 arena staff

Is guidance the best back bar set though? I really want to keep running my master resto but it is hard to justify when there are quite a few other sets that night be worth more to have up all the time

Asardes

Or you can run 5 MD front bar and time your synergies to take advantage of that. The MD bonus to either magicka recovery or spell damage lasts for 30s, compared to synergy cooldown for a particular skill, which is 20s, so popping orbs while on front bar will suffice.

Gnortranermara

Royaji wrote: »

And where do you expect to find enough synergies? Unless you are melee there is not enough synergies around to make Moondancer 5 piece viable. Especially if you have several DDs running it. Unless changes to acuity happen maelstrom destro will probably stay in it's BiS place.

Wha....? The Moondancer buff lasts for 30 secs. What kind of group doesn't have enough synergies for everyone who needs it to grab one once every 30 secs? Conduits, Radiates, Purifies, Talons, Orbs, and many many others should be up almost constantly in even a mildly decent group.

gnarlyvandal

Backbar will be worth it for the arena weapons that are already backbar bis... destro / bow

Not got any endgame experience with healing so I’m not sure about the builds.

5/5/2 on front bar will be necessary though imo. Especially for mag players that no longer need asylum staff due to new skill line as well.. (not sure in the slightest why they did this)

I’m pretty sad that arena weapons are no longer special in any way really, more like ‘just another’ weapon that takes too long to get..

There are more than enough different sets that complement each other for both Stam and mag to make it interesting at least

Just one example:
I want to give my Sorc a go with netches and storm master with Ilambris, see how much damage I can throw out without a pet :’) with the buff to LA coming as well I’m curious to see the strength of these hits

I know I can try all these on PTS but I’d rather just wait for whatever tweaks they’re gonna do before Summerset is actually released

Bigevilpeter

You won't need a full set on your backbar for most builds, unique weapons will be more useful

ccfeeling

As Vma weapons finally became backbar gears, Zos could u adjust the difficulity of Vma?

There is no reason we spend so much time on these non bis weapons.

Let all of us have those gears easily as u intend, thank you.

NiclasFridholm

Elf Bane might just be better on BB come patch...

kylewwefan

VMA weapons have been back bar. This is nothing new. If you’re using a Hundings or NMG bow, it’s a good buff to that, but still not replacing that Maelstrom. Same with Julianos.

Accuity on one bar is used to control the proc somewhat. So nothing really changes there either.

Gilvoth

Kalante wrote: »

Maelstrom weapons are basically non existent in pvp right now. ZOS has successfully put maelstrom weapons in par with those generic white weapons we all used to steal in davon's watch when we first started playing the game. Let that sink into your head. Nobody uses them in pvp.

good,
it was stupid to make the best pvp weapon only available by pve.
it is good that it is not used in pvp and i hope it stays that way.

Peekachu99

Flame Clench with a Master’s Staff will stay BiS for magblade/ temp PVP. So no.

Uviryth

That would be soooo awesome. Screw you Maelstrom Bow, may you rot in hell!

Giraffon

I suck at Maelstrom Arena. I hate the weapons that other people have from there. It's a constant reminder of my suckiness. I hope they get nerfed into Oblivion. There should be crafted gear that can stand head to head against it. In a PvP situation, me with my crafted same power gear vs. someone that earned Maelstrom vet gear...I'm still probably toast.

Jarryzzt

Not obsolete in terms of raw top-level DPS, perhaps.

But less in demand because instead of investing the time, energy and so forth in farming them a person can just go 5x5x2 or 5x5x1x1 in a fraction of the time (and at a fraction of the cost) - even with crafted sets (MA and Julianos/Hunding for PVE, for example) - and achieve sufficiently reasonable results. In other words, the "return on investment" in farming that MA lightning staff will likely not be as dramatic as before, although of course we cannot know the exact magnitude until we can actually test this stuff out.

Asardes

Giraffon wrote: »

I suck at Maelstrom Arena. I hate the weapons that other people have from there. It's a constant reminder of my suckiness. I hope they get nerfed into Oblivion. There should be crafted gear that can stand head to head against it. In a PvP situation, me with my crafted same power gear vs. someone that earned Maelstrom vet gear...I'm still probably toast.

If you can't beat Maelstrom probably those weapons won't help you a lot even if you got them, probably because you fail hard at more basic stuff, like managing your resources and keeping the semblance of a rotation that does even mediocre damage. Calling for nerfs because you can't get them is simply selfish. At least the fabled fox complained that the grapes were sour, but did not try to uproot the vine.

Giraffon

If I was that fox, I'd dig that damn grape vine up by the roots. It's a weed. It doesn't belong in the garden.

Vaoh

Bbsample197 wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

kiLLahweSPe wrote: »

there is no replacement for the vma bow and destro, they are just too powerful for 1 slot weapons

Yes, but in Summerset they’re no longer 1-slot weapons. They take up 2 slots.

I doubt the vMA bow could get replaced, but I’m thinking it might be worth replacing a Maelstrom Staff in order to run something like 5x Moondancer. Haven’t tested this but I find it hard to believe that a Maelstrom Staff beats Moondancer’s buff + free 1x Spell Damage bonus on backbar.

At the very least they won’t be as far ahead in DPS as they are now.

as for moondancer, you only need the 5 pc bonus on one bar you dont need to double bar it so you can leave the other slot for a VMA staff

I was thinking more along the lines of 2-piece monster set, frontbar Acuity, and backbar Moondancer.

I don’t think that a Maelstrom staff would outparse a full monster set, though can’t really say since I’m on console.

Vaoh

Royaji wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

kiLLahweSPe wrote: »

there is no replacement for the vma bow and destro, they are just too powerful for 1 slot weapons

Yes, but in Summerset they’re no longer 1-slot weapons. They take up 2 slots.

I doubt the vMA bow could get replaced, but I’m thinking it might be worth replacing a Maelstrom Staff in order to run something like 5x Moondancer. Haven’t tested this but I find it hard to believe that a Maelstrom Staff beats Moondancer’s buff + free 1x Spell Damage bonus on backbar.

At the very least they won’t be as far ahead in DPS as they are now.

And where do you expect to find enough synergies? Unless you are melee there is not enough synergies around to make Moondancer 5 piece viable. Especially if you have several DDs running it. Unless changes to acuity happen maelstrom destro will probably stay in it's BiS place.

In my group there are always enough synergies. Very much dependent on the group.

Uviryth

Asardes wrote: »

If you can't beat Maelstrom probably those weapons won't help you a lot even if you got them, probably because you fail hard at more basic stuff, like managing your resources and keeping the semblance of a rotation that does even mediocre damage. Calling for nerfs because you can't get them is simply selfish. At least the fabled fox complained that the grapes were sour, but did not try to uproot the vine.

Or you simply dont like those Die50timesperbossperstagetolearnthemechanic-Soloinstances.

gnarlyvandal

Vaoh wrote: »

Bbsample197 wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

kiLLahweSPe wrote: »

there is no replacement for the vma bow and destro, they are just too powerful for 1 slot weapons

Yes, but in Summerset they’re no longer 1-slot weapons. They take up 2 slots.

I doubt the vMA bow could get replaced, but I’m thinking it might be worth replacing a Maelstrom Staff in order to run something like 5x Moondancer. Haven’t tested this but I find it hard to believe that a Maelstrom Staff beats Moondancer’s buff + free 1x Spell Damage bonus on backbar.

At the very least they won’t be as far ahead in DPS as they are now.

as for moondancer, you only need the 5 pc bonus on one bar you dont need to double bar it so you can leave the other slot for a VMA staff

I was thinking more along the lines of 2-piece monster set, frontbar Acuity, and backbar Moondancer.

I don’t think that a Maelstrom staff would outparse a full monster set, though can’t really say since I’m on console.

At the moment, and most likely when Summerset hits, maelstrom staff (if it’s destro) is best in slot for your backbar. Drop wall of elements (whatever morph) from backbar then switch to your front. The extra damage on light and heavy attacks still works.

Uviryth wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

If you can't beat Maelstrom probably those weapons won't help you a lot even if you got them, probably because you fail hard at more basic stuff, like managing your resources and keeping the semblance of a rotation that does even mediocre damage. Calling for nerfs because you can't get them is simply selfish. At least the fabled fox complained that the grapes were sour, but did not try to uproot the vine.

Or you simply dont like those Die50timesperbossperstagetolearnthemechanic-Soloinstances.

Most of the information to beat vMA can be found online. Learning the mechanics can take some time, but it does depend on your skill with the games mechanics, not just the specific bosses. I found that learning how to get through vMA made me a better player in general, but learning the mechanics for all veteran content is pretty important tbh.

I’m assuming you’ve not sat through a training run on discord for a vet trial yet.. much more tedious than trying to beat vMA imo. Very helpful, still tedious

But all of this, including getting the weapons only really matters if you want to run the hardest content. If you don’t want to, there’s absolutely no need to ever set foot in vet trials or arena

Heka Cain

That's Great News!