I have made some calculations..

themaddaedra

... over the course of recent Crown research scrolls discussions. Reminder: If you are tired of reading such posts, you don't have to. This post is about Crown research scrolls with some calculations.

Lately there are a lot of discussions about Crown Store, research scrolls and the way on which Zenimax is taking the game. I always defended the idea that ESO doesn't have PTW systems, i even made a Steam review 2 weeks ago, pointing this and suggesting game to others, which is now one of the most popular reviews in my Language. I got tens of friend requests, from people asking me about game and i encouraged tens of them to buy and play. Simply because i love the game and i never regretted a single penny i spent, so far.

But after Summerset PTS being released, i started to feel quite negative about the general direction of the game. I stated my opinions about Crown crate exclusive motifs and dungeon boss costume packs in several threads, and i'm gonna skip those for this part. Here i want to talk about crown research scrolls.

It has always bothered me that there is a 20h cooldown for voucher research scrolls, but not for crown ones. It's kind of disappointing but i never went too far on it, as most people already finished researching stuff for existing systems, and amazingly most of them are happy to help and craft gear for people who yet did not. So those scrolls wouldn't make much of a difference over the balance.

But now we are going to get a whole new crafting system, where everyone will start from the beginning. And obviously, the people who level it faster will benefit more from it, both in their own builds and in market. So this is where we need a fair playfield, as Rich Lambert also stated before, while explaining why they retained people from deconstructing jewellery acquired prior to Summerset. That made me think they won't put jewellery research scrolls, at least at the very beginning of patch. But surprise, those scrolls are already there on PTS, slapped into your face with an almost full screen crown store advertisment. I couldn't be more disappointed. This is the most disrespectful and greedy move i have ever seen from Zenimax. This is just wrong.

There are 3 types of research scrolls, normal(400 crowns, 1 day), major(2500 crowns, 7 days) and grand(5000 crowns, 15 days).

If you want to reach 9 traits straight on impact (considering time reduction from ESO Plus ans skill line passives) you need to use 8 normal, 2 major and 4 grand scrolls, which is gonna cost you 28.200 crowns.

Hovewer, you won't have the skill line maxed on impact, so you will need some time to max it out. I would give it a minimum of 3 days. And that's if you are really fast. So researching the first 4 traits takes 60 hours, assuming you skipped some hours and you can easily research 4 traits in first 3 days. For the rest, you need to use 3 normal, 2 major, 4 grand scrolls, which cost 26.2k crowns.

Now for some, that's a huge amount of money, and for some it's not a big deal at all. Considering lots of people bought truly expensive crown houses, there will be people who can afford 26k crowns and hit the jackpot on day 3, if not faster.

This is why i -and i believe many others- complain about the direction of game and ptw systems. Does that not feel enough like PTW for you? Then just wait until ZoS crosses your line too.

Also add all other nonsense crown store stuff, such as dungeon boss costumes and motif pages which you can not obtain in game. It's more than obvious that they are getting more and more greedy with every patch. And either they will stop this or we will have to say we warned ya!

Edit: 2 digits i accidently put different.

fluffycannibalb16_ESO

I think you have an unusual view of what constitutes PTW...or maybe I do. To me, PTW is when you can buy a direct advantage over another player that will increase your chances of beating or overtaking them. Pretty horses, researching crafting traits, and the shape of your armor don't do this. Is ZOS being kinda ***? Maybe, yeah. Is this an actual PTW system? No. It could go that way of course, and I guess that we as the players need to figure out where the lines between what are and aren't acceptable lie, but for me right now? I don't really care.

neverwalk

I did it the HONEST way, I PLAYED THE GAME and now i'm a master traiter 4 times over

themaddaedra

fluffycannibalb16_ESO wrote: »

I think you have an unusual view of what constitutes PTW...or maybe I do. To me, PTW is when you can buy a direct advantage over another player that will increase your chances of beating or overtaking them. Pretty horses, researching crafting traits, and the shape of your armor don't do this. Is ZOS being kinda ***? Maybe, yeah. Is this an actual PTW system? No. It could go that way of course, and I guess that we as the players need to figure out where the lines between what are and aren't acceptable lie, but for me right now? I don't really care.

Doesn't being able to craft certain sets like 1 month earlier than others give you an advantage you say? You can start using strong jewellery on day 3 while others will still have to wait another month. Or you can make some ridiculous money out of it, which is most likely to help you get somr advantage.

I understand it doesn't completely feel like PTW for some matter, but i don't see any reason to tolerate this further. They can simply remove the cooldown from voucher scrolls and then i'd have nothing to say about this.

LordSkyKnight

I have always argued that pay to win is paying extra money outside the basic game to bypass standardized mechanics of the game to get ahead faster than everyone else. So for me buying a experience boost or a crafting research boost is a pay to win option. Some only believe in the most extreme cases of purchasing direct items to gain an advantage over others is paying to win.

I say that they have been mentally conditioned to accept the more subtle ways of paying to win as normal behavior of game companies and accept such behavior as the norm.

It also cracks me up when white knights finally get turned after their own personal line in the sand has been crossed.

VaranisArano

As I said on my thread about this (though I'm always glad to see more people doing the math), the rush to pay with scrolls is tempered somewhat by the grindy nature of acquiring the jewelry for research in the first place.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/408045/how-much-does-it-cost-to-max-research-jewelry-with-crown-scrolls#latest

My math is a little different that yours, but I suspect that's just because we made different choices about when its cost effective to use 1-day, 7-day or 15-day scrolls at certain points.

Because I used 1 day research scrolls when they would be cheaper than the next largest option, my final cost for jewelry research was between 50 to 55K crowns (depending on the amount of patience exercised, ESO+ or not, but assuming full passive) or between $360 to $400.

themaddaedra

VaranisArano wrote: »

As I said on my thread about this (though I'm always glad to see more people doing the math), the rush to pay with scrolls is tempered somewhat by the grindy nature of acquiring the jewelry for research in the first place.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/408045/how-much-does-it-cost-to-max-research-jewelry-with-crown-scrolls#latest

My math is a little different that yours, but I suspect that's just because we made different choices about when its cost effective to use 1-day, 7-day or 15-day scrolls at certain points.

Because I used 1 day research scrolls when they would be cheaper than the next largest option, my final cost for jewelry research was between 50 to 55K crowns (depending on the amount of patience exercised, ESO+ or not, but assuming full passive) or between $360 to $400.

Wow i didn't see that thread before. You actually made more math than me, most likely with some difference at certain jumping points.

But i calculated for one single research line, in that case either only ring or only neck. Because i was told that you can only research one item at a time for jewellery. Warn me if that's wrong tho, i didn't check that personally.

Korah_Eaglecry

I dont know if I would classify it as P2W. For me personally and I know for many others P2W is giving one player an advantage over another in something like direct combat (think EAs recent Battlefront II and their star cards). But I do understand where youre coming from. It does feel unfair that others will simply be able to buy their way past the time gates and start reaping all the gold others are willing to throw at them for the maxed out crafted items. The problem here is that you cant quantify gold as "winning". It might be a personal thing for you to be first, or have a chance at being first without outside interference such as scrolls. But its not as if everyone is going to be able to afford the first sets of jewelry, its not as if people wont be looking for jewelry well after the whales have bought their way to the end. You might not be able to reap as much gold as they did in the opening days of jewelry crafting. But its not as if you can do much more with your gold than collect items in the game.

I guess if you have some twisted view of gold/money as "winning" then this would be your worst nightmare.

VaranisArano

themaddaedra wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

As I said on my thread about this (though I'm always glad to see more people doing the math), the rush to pay with scrolls is tempered somewhat by the grindy nature of acquiring the jewelry for research in the first place.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/408045/how-much-does-it-cost-to-max-research-jewelry-with-crown-scrolls#latest

My math is a little different that yours, but I suspect that's just because we made different choices about when its cost effective to use 1-day, 7-day or 15-day scrolls at certain points.

Because I used 1 day research scrolls when they would be cheaper than the next largest option, my final cost for jewelry research was between 50 to 55K crowns (depending on the amount of patience exercised, ESO+ or not, but assuming full passive) or between $360 to $400.

Wow i didn't see that thread before. You actually made more math than me, most likely with some difference at certain jumping points.

But i calculated for one single research line, in that case either only ring or only neck. Because i was told that you can only research one item at a time for jewellery. Warn me if that's wrong tho, i didn't check that personally.

That's correct, only one at a time. I also calculated for one at a time, then doubled it for necklaces and rings since the research separately.

themaddaedra

VaranisArano wrote: »

themaddaedra wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

As I said on my thread about this (though I'm always glad to see more people doing the math), the rush to pay with scrolls is tempered somewhat by the grindy nature of acquiring the jewelry for research in the first place.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/408045/how-much-does-it-cost-to-max-research-jewelry-with-crown-scrolls#latest

My math is a little different that yours, but I suspect that's just because we made different choices about when its cost effective to use 1-day, 7-day or 15-day scrolls at certain points.

Because I used 1 day research scrolls when they would be cheaper than the next largest option, my final cost for jewelry research was between 50 to 55K crowns (depending on the amount of patience exercised, ESO+ or not, but assuming full passive) or between $360 to $400.

Wow i didn't see that thread before. You actually made more math than me, most likely with some difference at certain jumping points.

But i calculated for one single research line, in that case either only ring or only neck. Because i was told that you can only research one item at a time for jewellery. Warn me if that's wrong tho, i didn't check that personally.

That's correct, only one at a time. I also calculated for one at a time, then doubled it for necklaces and rings since the research separately.

Yep, when you double my numbers it's very similar to your total. There are a few differences which i believe come from the assuming of jumping points as you said.

clocksstoppe

fluffycannibalb16_ESO wrote: »

I think you have an unusual view of what constitutes PTW...or maybe I do. To me, PTW is when you can buy a direct advantage over another player that will increase your chances of beating or overtaking them. Pretty horses, researching crafting traits, and the shape of your armor don't do this. Is ZOS being kinda ***? Maybe, yeah. Is this an actual PTW system? No. It could go that way of course, and I guess that we as the players need to figure out where the lines between what are and aren't acceptable lie, but for me right now? I don't really care.

Selling crafted items gives money. Why should trading guilds who pay for research scrolls get better income and outbid the ones that dont go p2w while they wait for months to research their traits?

Colecovision

Your math brain isn't letting you wrap your head around ZoS math. 6 is greater than 9. That's 6 traits is better than 9 traits when it comes to crafted sets. I'll add that 9 trait sets are currently easy to come by, so you need to come up with 2 sets to pair since the higher trait set can be worn on the body. What set pairing did you have in mind? What's the contest?

Aside from research, you need to decon a crap ton of jewelry to level up and then grab skill points to fill out the line. Am I really going to have that before I can get to 6 traits? I think I'm looking at over 200 doleman if I need to be in such a hurry.

And then it's all for not anyway since ZoS isn't putting enough mats in the game to make this worth while. You're better off just farming a dungeon set. I'm going to do the research at a normal pace, but honestly, I'm not sure I'll be making a set anytime soon. There's more to this grind than the time gate. I think the time gate will take care of itself while we do the rest at a reasonable pace.

The real winner is going to be the bot farmers.