[PVE] mag Templar dd
Käptn_Iglo
Soul Shriven
The Templar Discussion is quite overloaded with healing/tanking/stamDD/pvp stuff, so I guess I start a discussion about pve magicka Templar dd.
First a little overview about my comment:
1. Tested Setups
2. Channeled skills/cast time
3. Sustain
1.Tested Setups
I tested the most common sets: Acuity, Julianos, BSW, Master Architect, TBS, Jorvulds, Zaan, Ilambris, Grothdar, as well as Elfbane and the new set Sirorias.
And tested different skill rotation: A more static rotation, using heavy attacks, and dynamic rotation with either Puncturing Sweeps or Force Pulse as gap filler.
I used high elf Templar.
The lowest dps I got with those setups was like 36k, the highest setup left me with around 43k dps. I had some minor mistakes in my rotation, so I guess you could squeeze out maybe like 2k more dps.
2. Channeled Skills/ Cast time
From what I have tested, light attacks hit really hard. In order to have high dps, you just need to do light attacks in between skills.
Here is where I see an issue of templar skills:
Radiant Oppresion:
Many People complain about the low dmg of that skill. At my testings, Radiant hits with an average dmg of ~40k, which is not that much lower then Nightblades Impale. The problem is, Templar has to use beam for 2,9 seconds and cannot do any light attack or other skills in between. So maybe adjust the dmg of beam to compansate for that, or make it to be friendlier to use in a quick, dynamic gameplay.
Solar Barrage:
I think that skill is really interesting with light attacks beeing buffed, and empowered buffing light attacks by 40%. Solar Barrage gives Templar the empowered buff for four times with activating it only once. It additionally does some good dmg as well. The issue here is again the cast time, along with the need to stay in melee range to hit the target. Just to get the empowered buff, you actually don't have to hit the target with Solar Barrage though.
Imo, the cast time of 1,1 sec makes this skill not worth using in pve. Maybe it can be changed to be instant skill or adjust the benefit of that skill.
Puncturing Sweeps:
Here I see the same Issue Radiant Oppresion has. The dmg from sweeps doesn't compansate for the longer using time, where you cannot do light attacks in between. When you have to interupt Sweeps (for blocking, or moving) you loose even more dmg.
3. Sustain:
I think magicka Templar is still too hard to sustain. On static rotation with heavy atack every ~8-9 seconds, you can sustain it. When you want to play fast, dynamic rotation without heavy attacks, magplar has to use Channeled Focus and mag regen Food, and then sustain still is hard to manage and you loose dps again if you go for more mag regen. Channeled Focus is a really nice skill as long as you can stand on the same place for some seconds, which is getting rare in every new dungeon/trial. The ressources, you gain from using heavy attacks on offbalanced targets is really big, but it most often is really hard to gain that ressources as the offbalance window is so tiny, and it sometime is really hard to see if a target is offbalance. Puncturing Sweeps are quite cheap to use, but lack some dmg as I mentioned above.
To sum it up a little:
With the current changes of gameplay, in order to have some good dps and be competetive to other classes, in my opinion, magicka Templar struggles when it comes to using a dynamic rotation with a lot of light attacks in between. That is because of sustain issues and channeled skills or skills with cast time. It would help a lot to give templar either better sustain, or change some class skills (like Solar Barrage, Puncturing Sweeps, Radiant Oppresion), so templar gets a small dps-boost.
First a little overview about my comment:
1. Tested Setups
2. Channeled skills/cast time
3. Sustain
1.Tested Setups
I tested the most common sets: Acuity, Julianos, BSW, Master Architect, TBS, Jorvulds, Zaan, Ilambris, Grothdar, as well as Elfbane and the new set Sirorias.
And tested different skill rotation: A more static rotation, using heavy attacks, and dynamic rotation with either Puncturing Sweeps or Force Pulse as gap filler.
I used high elf Templar.
The lowest dps I got with those setups was like 36k, the highest setup left me with around 43k dps. I had some minor mistakes in my rotation, so I guess you could squeeze out maybe like 2k more dps.
2. Channeled Skills/ Cast time
From what I have tested, light attacks hit really hard. In order to have high dps, you just need to do light attacks in between skills.
Here is where I see an issue of templar skills:
Radiant Oppresion:
Many People complain about the low dmg of that skill. At my testings, Radiant hits with an average dmg of ~40k, which is not that much lower then Nightblades Impale. The problem is, Templar has to use beam for 2,9 seconds and cannot do any light attack or other skills in between. So maybe adjust the dmg of beam to compansate for that, or make it to be friendlier to use in a quick, dynamic gameplay.
Solar Barrage:
I think that skill is really interesting with light attacks beeing buffed, and empowered buffing light attacks by 40%. Solar Barrage gives Templar the empowered buff for four times with activating it only once. It additionally does some good dmg as well. The issue here is again the cast time, along with the need to stay in melee range to hit the target. Just to get the empowered buff, you actually don't have to hit the target with Solar Barrage though.
Imo, the cast time of 1,1 sec makes this skill not worth using in pve. Maybe it can be changed to be instant skill or adjust the benefit of that skill.
Puncturing Sweeps:
Here I see the same Issue Radiant Oppresion has. The dmg from sweeps doesn't compansate for the longer using time, where you cannot do light attacks in between. When you have to interupt Sweeps (for blocking, or moving) you loose even more dmg.
3. Sustain:
I think magicka Templar is still too hard to sustain. On static rotation with heavy atack every ~8-9 seconds, you can sustain it. When you want to play fast, dynamic rotation without heavy attacks, magplar has to use Channeled Focus and mag regen Food, and then sustain still is hard to manage and you loose dps again if you go for more mag regen. Channeled Focus is a really nice skill as long as you can stand on the same place for some seconds, which is getting rare in every new dungeon/trial. The ressources, you gain from using heavy attacks on offbalanced targets is really big, but it most often is really hard to gain that ressources as the offbalance window is so tiny, and it sometime is really hard to see if a target is offbalance. Puncturing Sweeps are quite cheap to use, but lack some dmg as I mentioned above.
To sum it up a little:
With the current changes of gameplay, in order to have some good dps and be competetive to other classes, in my opinion, magicka Templar struggles when it comes to using a dynamic rotation with a lot of light attacks in between. That is because of sustain issues and channeled skills or skills with cast time. It would help a lot to give templar either better sustain, or change some class skills (like Solar Barrage, Puncturing Sweeps, Radiant Oppresion), so templar gets a small dps-boost.
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Fallewarrior✭✭✭✭I found magplar pretty easy to sustain on 6mil dummy if i get orbs. Never dropped below 5%0, but yea I could stand in channeled focus circle all the time. It would be a nice buff if zos changed that skill so that you get the extra regen even if you're not standing it in.
Sweep damage should be a little bit higher in order to make it really viable. Would love to see a small buff happen
Beam and the bloodthristy trait seemed to do a lot of dmg. But since that trait most likely wont make it to that live server as it is right now, beam could use a little bit of love aswell. (PLZ FIX SCALING)Hocus Pocus Grim Focus
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Grumble_and_Grunt✭✭✭✭Pretty similar analysis from my conclusions. I would only add that Templar DoTs are rather underwhelming also.Edited by Grumble_and_Grunt on April 20, 2018 11:50PMPC EU
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#3Qbiken0 -
Käptn_IgloSoul ShrivenBlazing spear does have good dmg.
When you add burning light and the instant hit, I ended up with a total of 4,5k+ dps (on selfbuffed 3m dummy), which is more then Elemental Blockade (around 3k-4k dps).
Vampire's Bane with around 1,7k dps is a little low though and roughly worth using.
Purifying Light, unfortunately, the big hit after 6 seconds cannot crit. With crits beeing really strong because of passives and group support, this skill looses some dps.
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Checkmath✭✭✭✭✭
✭I made a long list with thoughts and suggestions in the templar balance thread and i need to agree. There are a few points, where we could either some sustain or damage into the skills or passives.
First off i suggested to shorten the cast time of jabs to around 0.8 seconds. By doing that, weaving will be easier and we dont lose time withing the global cooldown. The second skill most magplars use is blazing spear. Both skills are aoe, but dont profit from the burning light passive to its full potential. The passive shouldnt have a global cooldown, but a cooldown per target. This would result in higher aoe damage for templars (also stamplars). The third skill is sun fire, where i suggested, that the additional 2 projectiles are added to the base skill. Vampires bane would still get the duration increase, meanwhile reflective light becomes a stamina ability. Also the skill should get some dot increase and should count as magic damage.
For the passives i suggested to add 6% spelldamage and physical resistance to the balanced warrior skillline. Also i would like to see a change to enduring rays, where the additional time for dawns wrath skills is added to the skills. The new passive could either get a penetration bonus or a sustain bonus, which maybe restores magicka or stamina when using a dawns wrath skill depending on the type of cost of that skill.0 -
Käptn_IgloSoul Shriven"Nightblade
Siphoning
Strife: The animation from this ability and its morphs now plays faster, which should make it easier to weave with Light Attacks."
I would love to see something like this for Templar skills.
Edited by Käptn_Iglo on April 23, 2018 8:38PM0 -
Checkmath✭✭✭✭✭
✭How about jabs channel will be shortened to 0.8 seconds, so we still have time to weave within the global cooldown?0 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Templar are best healz, you arent supposed to have competitive dps.
Or.... wait im sorry does that logic not apply here?0 -
Checkmath✭✭✭✭✭
✭
No that logic doesnt apply here, since zos wants to have all classes be competitive in all roles. Thats why we see so many changes with summerset, where all classes gain some healing or tanking ability, while templars get nothing, not even a damage increase, which is where we are lackinf stuff.exeeter702 wrote: »Templar are best healz, you arent supposed to have competitive dps.
Or.... wait im sorry does that logic not apply here?
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exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
No that logic doesnt apply here, since zos wants to have all classes be competitive in all roles. Thats why we see so many changes with summerset, where all classes gain some healing or tanking ability, while templars get nothing, not even a damage increase, which is where we are lackinf stuff.exeeter702 wrote: »Templar are best healz, you arent supposed to have competitive dps.
Or.... wait im sorry does that logic not apply here?
/s*.....
Yet we get multiple pages of dps discussions on nb and dk feedback threads and when nb and dk healers are mentioned its basically "kick rocks".
Edited by exeeter702 on April 23, 2018 11:16PM0 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭OP is correct.
Channel/cast times have always been problematic, not because in PvP they get interrupt (most of the time it doesn't happen), it's because they disrupt PvE rotations and do not factor in monster mechanics.
All this is even more relevant this patch with the buff to light attacks.Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.0 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭exeeter702 wrote: »Templar are best healz, you arent supposed to have competitive dps.
Or.... wait im sorry does that logic not apply here?
No. I believe you yourself posted in the DK thread how the DK Cauterize skill rivals BoL.Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.0 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »Templar are best healz, you arent supposed to have competitive dps.
Or.... wait im sorry does that logic not apply here?
No. I believe you yourself posted in the DK thread how the DK Cauterize skill rivals BoL.
My statement here was sarcasm.
Oh and yes cauterize heals for close to what bol does. I simply used bol as a frame of reference for demonstrating that cauterize was in fact not weak. Thats all.
I just find it particularly amusing that many people want templar and dk to be uncontested healer and tank yet desire equal share in the dps department.Edited by exeeter702 on April 23, 2018 11:48PM0