Give Maelstrom/Master Weapons the old Damage and Stats back

DRAGON_KILLER_HUNTER

Maelstrom weapons used to give spell/weapon damage and master weapons max magicka/stamina, would love to see them get this back for balance in the coming summerset patch.

Colecovision

DRAGON_KILLER_HUNTER wrote: »

Maelstrom weapons used to give spell/weapon damage and master weapons max magicka/stamina, would love to see them get this back for balance in the coming summerset patch.

They nerfed Maelstrom weapons right before asylum weapons were released behind a small paywall. From that standpoint I think we can see what their plans are.

As a general rule, I don't think it makes sense to give only the very best players the very best weapons. The best players are still going to be way better even if they have the same gear as bad players. There's no reason to widen that gap. vMA should have trophies, gold and maybe a costume, but not weapons to further divide the group. Think of Billy Madison throwing dodgeballs at children. Billy didn't need a buff.

Either way, as long as a proc set is BiS, anything extra you get from the back bar is an advantage.

Kanar

After the absolute troll of a PTS patch note about this, I have no hope at all that the *** at ZoS will make these weapons great again.

This is what I'm referring to:

The Master, Maelstrom, and Asylum 2-Handed weapon sets now require 2 pieces to complete the set.
Since 2-Handed weapons always grant 2 pieces of an item set bonus, this change is purely cosmetic.

Colecovision

Kanar wrote: »

After the absolute troll of a PTS patch note about this, I have no hope at all that the *** at ZoS will make these weapons great again.

This is what I'm referring to:

The Master, Maelstrom, and Asylum 2-Handed weapon sets now require 2 pieces to complete the set.
Since 2-Handed weapons always grant 2 pieces of an item set bonus, this change is purely cosmetic.

The set requires two pieces and each of those items counts as 2 pieces. I don't understand the problem or why it was trolling.

Cloudless

Colecovision wrote: »

Kanar wrote: »

After the absolute troll of a PTS patch note about this, I have no hope at all that the *** at ZoS will make these weapons great again.

This is what I'm referring to:

The Master, Maelstrom, and Asylum 2-Handed weapon sets now require 2 pieces to complete the set.
Since 2-Handed weapons always grant 2 pieces of an item set bonus, this change is purely cosmetic.

The set requires two pieces and each of those items counts as 2 pieces. I don't understand the problem or why it was trolling.

Guess because if they couldn't identify it as trolling they'd have no more reason to get outraged over nothing at all.

TheYKcid

I am in absolute disbelief that this issue was not addressed in the first PTS iteration—it was highlighted very early on when the playtesters released the pre-PTS details. It's such a logical problem with a logical solution.

• every 2-handed weapon will count as 2 set pieces in Summerset
• this will give access to the 4pc stat bonus, and the 5pc special bonus, from a 5pc set
• vMA/vDSA 2H weapons need an additional 1pc stat bonus to remain competitive

Instead we received a PTS in which these weapons, despite being earned from some of the toughest content in the game, have actually become WORSE than generic set weapons when used on the frontbar.

Please raise more awareness on this issues so it gets noted and addressed !

Gilvoth

please stop making threads like these.
every day, and all hours of the day.

Guarlet

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

please stop making threads like these.
every day, and all hours of the day.

I mean, but this thread actually does raise a valid concern though. Maelstrom/Master weapons should retain their relative usefulness, otherwise there won't be any incentive to do their respective content and grind for them. Which would be a shame, because those arenas are honestly pretty cool and well designed imo. And not to mention a lot of work.

Arkangeloski

Yes please! And finaly a thread that really matters... i was really getting bored of the nb induced paranoia lol, but yes with the nerf to 2h swords LA n HA that would make lots of sense, and it would be a fair trade off since you are not getting any benefit from it counting as two set pieces. Now on the down side destros are getting buffed this patch and with that xtra damage it would overpreform in some aspects imo.

But if that is the price i have to pay to slot my master weapons again im all for it lol, as it is now they are just wasted space on my bank with the exception of my master bow offcourse

Gilvoth

Guarlet wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

please stop making threads like these.
every day, and all hours of the day.

I mean, but this thread actually does raise a valid concern though. Maelstrom/Master weapons should retain their relative usefulness, otherwise there won't be any incentive to do their respective content and grind for them. Which would be a shame, because those arenas are honestly pretty cool and well designed imo. And not to mention a lot of work.

he is from the old ways and older type of weapons and armors and pvp playstyles, every day he spamms these threads asking for things to be the way they were years ago when the dragonight and sorcerer class were out of balance and unbeatable and totaly broken.

its not fair to the rest of us that he keeps making these threads and spaming comments in those threads with his friends. because this is a forum not his personal forum but a community forum that is up to date with the changes that are fair. instead he wants it to return to the days of unfairness. and unbalance.

ZOS_MattL

Hello,
We removed several comments from this thread for being off topic. Keep all future posts in this thread related to the topic being discussed.
Cheers,
Matt

WrathOfInnos

Don't forget Asylum weapons, they are underperforming on PTS. They never had an additional bonus, but should be treated the same as Master and Maelstrom.

VexingArcanist

Perhaps if these hard earned weapons completed any set available in the game, crafted or otherwise, though obviously not monster sets. The problem with this is there would need to be a restriction to one set, so you couldn't have 2x 4 piece sets both completed by 1x 2h weapon.

Colecovision

If enjoying the content isn't a good enough reason to do it, then it shouldn't have amazing rewards. If at the end of maelstrom arena the prize is a lock pick, I still want to finish that thing. I'm finding it to be a major challenge and it's worth doing to me. If other people don't feel that way, they really shouldn't be forced into something that intense to keep up with the rest of the crowd.

Ginding vMA isn't gaming, it's work. Clearing vMA because you want to is the best kind of gaming and thankfully ZoS put it there for those who want it.

Arkangeloski

Colecovision wrote: »

Kanar wrote: »

After the absolute troll of a PTS patch note about this, I have no hope at all that the *** at ZoS will make these weapons great again.

This is what I'm referring to:

The Master, Maelstrom, and Asylum 2-Handed weapon sets now require 2 pieces to complete the set.
Since 2-Handed weapons always grant 2 pieces of an item set bonus, this change is purely cosmetic.

The set requires two pieces and each of those items counts as 2 pieces. I don't understand the problem or why it was trolling.

because its cosmetic... its not like you are going to forget half 2h sword in your bank because you were transfering stuff from one character to another lol.

Shadowmaster

Colecovision wrote: »

As a general rule, I don't think it makes sense to give only the very best players the very best weapons.

I couldn't possibly disagree with you more.

The best weapons should be earned, and take a significant effort/skill to obtain.

In a perfect world there would be several options available from solo/group and pve/pvp content.

veloSylraptor

Colecovision wrote: »

If enjoying the content isn't a good enough reason to do it, then it shouldn't have amazing rewards. If at the end of maelstrom arena the prize is a lock pick, I still want to finish that thing. I'm finding it to be a major challenge and it's worth doing to me. If other people don't feel that way, they really shouldn't be forced into something that intense to keep up with the rest of the crowd.

Ginding vMA isn't gaming, it's work. Clearing vMA because you want to is the best kind of gaming and thankfully ZoS put it there for those who want it.

^I really don't get why some people fail to grasp this: challenge is its own reward.

Abysswarrior45

Change vMA 2h sword axe and maul bonus to reduce the cast time of dizzy swing by 0.4 secs.

TheYKcid

veloSylraptor wrote: »

Colecovision wrote: »

If enjoying the content isn't a good enough reason to do it, then it shouldn't have amazing rewards. If at the end of maelstrom arena the prize is a lock pick, I still want to finish that thing. I'm finding it to be a major challenge and it's worth doing to me. If other people don't feel that way, they really shouldn't be forced into something that intense to keep up with the rest of the crowd.

Ginding vMA isn't gaming, it's work. Clearing vMA because you want to is the best kind of gaming and thankfully ZoS put it there for those who want it.

^I really don't get why some people fail to grasp this: challenge is its own reward.

Nobody fails to grasp that. We fully understand that a challenge can be it's own reward... for you.

For many others, we invested time and effort specifically to earn these weapons—because they were a cut above the rest. Spontaneously downgrading them to become ever worse than garden-variety set weapons devalues that effort. These people are unhappy because they have been shortchanged.

I find it even harder to understand why you can't grasp this: different people have different goals, and thus different perspectives.

You could analogise it to someone who does volunteer work saying "I can't understand why people expect a paycheque for doing their job!"

Absolutely ridiculous, right?

MaxwellC

@DRAGON_KILLER_HUNTER
Yup I agree with that notion right there, these weapons should be coveted something you wanna strive to get; With the new changes to 2 handers it just makes it as another set. Now you could say that they would be really strong especially if you were to give the Asylum 2h a buff but I just feel trial specific loot and solo content loot i.e vMSA should be something we all want to get so we do not devalue them.

Qbiken

Aside from the bow, restostaff and destrostaff, the other weapons could use some love.

KanedaSyndrome

95% of threads with a ZOS tag are only a comment from a mod stating that they removed some posts. Kinda disapointing.

Riptide

It is really easy to make warty comments about how the journey is its own reward.

Clear vMA. Farm for your weapon. Then revisit.

Few would want vMA weapons OP. But it takes a significant time investment. It is by far the hardest single player content in the game. And very costly...you fly through expensive pots and repairs for a good stretch.

vMA weapons being BiS doesn’t mean they are OP. Only that the reward is sensible.

TheYKcid wrote: »

veloSylraptor wrote: »

Colecovision wrote: »

If enjoying the content isn't a good enough reason to do it, then it shouldn't have amazing rewards. If at the end of maelstrom arena the prize is a lock pick, I still want to finish that thing. I'm finding it to be a major challenge and it's worth doing to me. If other people don't feel that way, they really shouldn't be forced into something that intense to keep up with the rest of the crowd.

Ginding vMA isn't gaming, it's work. Clearing vMA because you want to is the best kind of gaming and thankfully ZoS put it there for those who want it.

^I really don't get why some people fail to grasp this: challenge is its own reward.

Nobody fails to grasp that. We fully understand that a challenge can be it's own reward... for you.

For many others, we invested time and effort specifically to earn these weapons—because they were a cut above the rest. Spontaneously downgrading them to become ever worse than garden-variety set weapons devalues that effort. These people are unhappy because they have been shortchanged.

I find it even harder to understand why you can't grasp this: different people have different goals, and thus different perspectives.

You could analogise it to someone who does volunteer work saying "I can't understand why people expect a paycheque for doing their job!"

Absolutely ridiculous, right?

Minalan

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

Guarlet wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

please stop making threads like these.
every day, and all hours of the day.

I mean, but this thread actually does raise a valid concern though. Maelstrom/Master weapons should retain their relative usefulness, otherwise there won't be any incentive to do their respective content and grind for them. Which would be a shame, because those arenas are honestly pretty cool and well designed imo. And not to mention a lot of work.

he is from the old ways and older type of weapons and armors and pvp playstyles, every day he spamms these threads asking for things to be the way they were years ago when the dragonight and sorcerer class were out of balance and unbeatable and totaly broken.

its not fair to the rest of us that he keeps making these threads and spaming comments in those threads with his friends. because this is a forum not his personal forum but a community forum that is up to date with the changes that are fair. instead he wants it to return to the days of unfairness. and unbalance.

It’s not unbalanced if everyone has access to the content. I’m sorry you haven’t the skill or the friends to do VMA or VDSA to get the weapons, which explains a good deal of your ‘nerf suchandsuch’ posting.

Those of us who have the items would like to see their relative value increased to be on-par with just wearing a three piece set on top of two five pieces.

To do that, some of the old bonuses should return. Spell damage on VMA. Max Magicka on VDSA.

These are end game items and it currently isn’t worth it to get a VMA staff when you can just use willpower for the two piece 1500 Max Magicka, throw another on and get a few hundred spell damage.

Colecovision

@TheYKcid and @Riptide

I want to clarify that my comments about doing vMA just to do it are regarding the value of the content going forward. I was responding to the idea that there's no reason to do it without the weapons. There is for some of us.

That in no way diminishes the fact that you guys got completely screwed. ZoS put the BiS weapons behind a significant grind and you went through it. Then they pulled the rug out from under you. If you guys are pissed, of course you have every right to be. Sorry if I came across as belittling your efforts.

NupidStoob

From all the DPS tests I've seen so far there is no indication that vMA bow or inferno/lightning staff backbar will disappear from PvE. Perfected AS staff also seems to still remain strongest in force pulse rotations.

The bigger problem with these weapons is the huge discrepancy in their bonuses and how only some of them can shine in any given meta. Even if they get the old stat bonuses back it will hardly make the bad weapons viable and will only serve to further buff the weapons that are already performing well or even are BiS.


Wether the weapons should be better than others or not is a whole other argument. I'd like them to be similar to others, but offer a unique experience and opening up new playstyles rather than just being outright stronger. Many of them already accomplish this in PvP, but probably not so much anymore after the patch.

Sting864

Colecovision wrote: »

They nerfed Maelstrom weapons right before asylum weapons were released behind a small paywall.

What's a SMALL paywall?? I didn't know there were degrees... I guess it's like bein' kinda pregnant...

TheYKcid

@Colecovision No need for an apology, I didn't interpret your statements that way. My post was actually directed at the poster who implied—rather condescendingly—that anyone who did vMA for reasons other than the joy of the challenge was somehow "failing to grasp the point".

That said, I would strongly dispute your notion that good players shouldn't be able to earn the best gear.

I see no good reason for a game developer to artificially reduce the power gap between good and bad players. I grinded vMA and vDSA because I wanted higher parses to qualify for vet trials in PvE, and a 1pc weapon to fully-utilise all eleven slots of my build in PvP. Conversely, a more casual player—with no aspirations to compete in top-level content—would not need these weapons in the first place.

In short... people who need these tools will earn them, and those who don't, won't. There's no inequity/injustice that the devs need to eradicate—because everyone starts at level 1, and everyone has access to the content if they choose to pursue it.

On the other hand, denying good players the opportunity to further improve themselves has the consequence of eroding one of the core elements of an RPG—the sense of progression. I, for one, would not be investing hundreds of hours into the game if my progress plateaued at the level of vet dungeons.

Riptide

I’m not fussed, it will get adjusted.

vMA is not about skill, it is about time commitment. It is true you develop skill during the process, but there are some who infer that it is a reflex based achievement - those who have reflexes can do it those that don’t can’t or something.

No, it is primarily preparation and a lot, a lot of practice to learn the mechanics. Anyone can do that.

Preparation in the form of truly sorting a build. Over hours, days, weeks.

Preparation in the form of getting a real rotation down. Over hours, days, weeks.

Preparation in the form of gearing. From crafting, from veteran dungeons, and from trials. Over hours, days, weeks.

Preparation in the form of spending sometimes hundreds of thousands of gold worth of mats on expensive pots, food, repairs. Over hours, days, weeks.

And the raw days and days of repetition to learn the mechanics.

With noone to lean on, just you - for all that prep, and all the over and over and over to get it right.

There will be an adjustment. What we have is early PTS.

Worst case scenario the devs will wait long enough it makes the community irate, but ultimately it will be adjusted.

Minalan

Riptide wrote: »

I’m not fussed, it will get adjusted.

vMA is not about skill, it is about time commitment. It is true you develop skill during the process, but there are some who infer that it is a reflex based achievement - those who have reflexes can do it those that don’t can’t or something.

No, it is primarily preparation and a lot, a lot of practice to learn the mechanics. Anyone can do that.

Preparation in the form of truly sorting a build. Over hours, days, weeks.

Preparation in the form of getting a real rotation down. Over hours, days, weeks.

Preparation in the form of gearing. From crafting, from veteran dungeons, and from trials. Over hours, days, weeks.

Preparation in the form of spending sometimes hundreds of thousands of gold worth of mats on expensive pots, food, repairs. Over hours, days, weeks.

And the raw days and days of repetition to learn the mechanics.

With noone to lean on, just you - for all that prep, and all the over and over and over to get it right.

There will be an adjustment. What we have is early PTS.

Worst case scenario the devs will wait long enough it makes the community irate, but ultimately it will be adjusted.

I certainly hope and pray that you’re right, I just cannot share your blind faith, trust, and optimism at this point.

.

Doctordarkspawn

Guarlet wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

please stop making threads like these.
every day, and all hours of the day.

I mean, but this thread actually does raise a valid concern though. Maelstrom/Master weapons should retain their relative usefulness, otherwise there won't be any incentive to do their respective content and grind for them. Which would be a shame, because those arenas are honestly pretty cool and well designed imo. And not to mention a lot of work.

They allready usefull.

Also, well designed? Bahah.