PTS Update 18 - Feedback Thread for Nightblade Balance - comment issue

aeowulf

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

The original thread is here:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/407078/pts-update-18-feedback-thread-for-nightblade-balance

It is not recognising posts as 'most recent' and it is not going to the top of the list when someone comments on it.

aeowulf

Anyone know what time ZoS get online to the forums usually? I imagine someone needs a day off after yesterdays mega-edit!

mr_wazzabi

Yes. The thread is bugged. It does not move to the first page when commented on.

Feanor

It’s a known issue when a lot of comments from a thread get deleted. I guess the forum software has a separate post counter that doesn’t update when comments get deleted.

Azurya

why is there still a nightblade-calss at all in this game??

so many (about 100) are always raging and hatred towards this class in the forum, it should be clear that this class should be deleted from the game at once!
stripping the class from all abilities patch after patch is not enough, even a nightblade without abilities and skills is a thread to these hardcore gamers!

Please be so kind and delete the class once and for all!

Mystrius_Archaion

Feanor wrote: »

It’s a known issue when a lot of comments from a thread get deleted. I guess the forum software has a separate post counter that doesn’t update when comments get deleted.

Ahhh, the phantom negative number. I'm betting at least 50% of the posts got deleted then. That would put the total count negative versus the actual remaining.

Feanor

Azurya wrote: »

why is there still a nightblade-calss at all in this game??

so many (about 100) are always raging and hatred towards this class in the forum, it should be clear that this class should be deleted from the game at once!
stripping the class from all abilities patch after patch is not enough, even a nightblade without abilities and skills is a thread to these hardcore gamers!

Please be so kind and delete the class once and for all!

Now now. The class didn’t even get any of the nerfs people were asking for. It’s largely intact, besides crit healing from cloak, which was a bug fix according to the patch notes.

aeowulf

Feanor wrote: »

Azurya wrote: »

why is there still a nightblade-calss at all in this game??

so many (about 100) are always raging and hatred towards this class in the forum, it should be clear that this class should be deleted from the game at once!
stripping the class from all abilities patch after patch is not enough, even a nightblade without abilities and skills is a thread to these hardcore gamers!

Please be so kind and delete the class once and for all!

Now now. The class didn’t even get any of the nerfs people were asking for. It’s largely intact, besides crit healing from cloak, which was a bug fix according to the patch notes.

Only 12 skills got changed:

Assassin’s Blade: nerf
Lotus Fan (Teleport Strike morph): nerf
Bolstering Darkness: nerf - whilst i like the concept it was still hit with the removal of the additional 30% damage reduction. The change is not enough to take it over war Horn, so we've just lost an 'omg everyone died' ulti. Change should of been applied to Veil instead.
Dark Cloak: huge change, positive in my eyes
Dark Shades: less damage & little concerned about the word 'occasionally'
Manifestation of Terror (Aspect of Terror morph): no one uses this so fill yer boots
Path of Darkness: nerf
Shadow Image: so putting it back to how it was
Debilitate (Cripple morph): unused skill
Malevolent Offering: need more info, but targetting sounds improved
Soul Siphon: "Increased the radius of the heal applied by this morph to 28 meters from 15 seconds." I'm assuming they meant to increase his from 15 meters...
Strife: nerf

No help for NB tank sustain.

That's not a good ratio, especially considering the changes to other classes. This is only PTS though... Just a shame all the warnings last year about NB tanks disappearing were not listened to, until 9 months after the event when they broke a passive. The heal is a good step, but it's not enough. The class still needs tank friendly sustain, they still need group utility. Changing dark cloak to offer group/trial wide minor protection for 3 seconds would be nice but... i'm pretty sure this is going to suffer the same issues as the nord passive, which will make it fairly negligible...

RavenSworn

aeowulf wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Azurya wrote: »

why is there still a nightblade-calss at all in this game??

so many (about 100) are always raging and hatred towards this class in the forum, it should be clear that this class should be deleted from the game at once!
stripping the class from all abilities patch after patch is not enough, even a nightblade without abilities and skills is a thread to these hardcore gamers!

Please be so kind and delete the class once and for all!

Now now. The class didn’t even get any of the nerfs people were asking for. It’s largely intact, besides crit healing from cloak, which was a bug fix according to the patch notes.

Only 12 skills got changed:

Assassin’s Blade: nerf
Lotus Fan (Teleport Strike morph): nerf
Bolstering Darkness: nerf - whilst i like the concept it was still hit with the removal of the additional 30% damage reduction. The change is not enough to take it over war Horn, so we've just lost an 'omg everyone died' ulti. Change should of been applied to Veil instead.
Dark Cloak: huge change, positive in my eyes
Dark Shades: less damage & little concerned about the word 'occasionally'
Manifestation of Terror (Aspect of Terror morph): no one uses this so fill yer boots
Path of Darkness: nerf
Shadow Image: so putting it back to how it was
Debilitate (Cripple morph): unused skill
Malevolent Offering: need more info, but targetting sounds improved
Soul Siphon: "Increased the radius of the heal applied by this morph to 28 meters from 15 seconds." I'm assuming they meant to increase his from 15 meters...
Strife: nerf

No help for NB tank sustain.

That's not a good ratio, especially considering the changes to other classes. This is only PTS though... Just a shame all the warnings last year about NB tanks disappearing were not listened to, until 9 months after the event when they broke a passive. The heal is a good step, but it's not enough. The class still needs tank friendly sustain, they still need group utility. Changing dark cloak to offer group/trial wide minor protection for 3 seconds would be nice but... i'm pretty sure this is going to suffer the same issues as the nord passive, which will make it fairly negligible...

How in the nine divines did you say that bolstering is a nerf? A major protection buff for 6 allies that will continue after you leave the area up for the duration of the spell? This gives nb tanks a definite choice between which morph they want to take. Don't talk about warhorn when it is THE bis for ANY tank, period.

Soul siphon was a buff, offering was a buff, shades was a buff since it now gives aoe minor maim, dark cloak was a buff..

Strife was a definite nerf, path to darkness was a nerf... But all those snare and stun was in line with the rest of the abilities that had the same concept.

Look, I'm not defending ZoS at every turn but this is just bashing for the sake of... Bashing. Not every change for the class has to be for dps.

Mystrius_Archaion

RavenSworn wrote: »

aeowulf wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Azurya wrote: »

why is there still a nightblade-calss at all in this game??

so many (about 100) are always raging and hatred towards this class in the forum, it should be clear that this class should be deleted from the game at once!
stripping the class from all abilities patch after patch is not enough, even a nightblade without abilities and skills is a thread to these hardcore gamers!

Please be so kind and delete the class once and for all!

Now now. The class didn’t even get any of the nerfs people were asking for. It’s largely intact, besides crit healing from cloak, which was a bug fix according to the patch notes.

Only 12 skills got changed:

Assassin’s Blade: nerf
Lotus Fan (Teleport Strike morph): nerf
Bolstering Darkness: nerf - whilst i like the concept it was still hit with the removal of the additional 30% damage reduction. The change is not enough to take it over war Horn, so we've just lost an 'omg everyone died' ulti. Change should of been applied to Veil instead.
Dark Cloak: huge change, positive in my eyes
Dark Shades: less damage & little concerned about the word 'occasionally'
Manifestation of Terror (Aspect of Terror morph): no one uses this so fill yer boots
Path of Darkness: nerf
Shadow Image: so putting it back to how it was
Debilitate (Cripple morph): unused skill
Malevolent Offering: need more info, but targetting sounds improved
Soul Siphon: "Increased the radius of the heal applied by this morph to 28 meters from 15 seconds." I'm assuming they meant to increase his from 15 meters...
Strife: nerf

No help for NB tank sustain.

That's not a good ratio, especially considering the changes to other classes. This is only PTS though... Just a shame all the warnings last year about NB tanks disappearing were not listened to, until 9 months after the event when they broke a passive. The heal is a good step, but it's not enough. The class still needs tank friendly sustain, they still need group utility. Changing dark cloak to offer group/trial wide minor protection for 3 seconds would be nice but... i'm pretty sure this is going to suffer the same issues as the nord passive, which will make it fairly negligible...

How in the nine divines did you say that bolstering is a nerf? A major protection buff for 6 allies that will continue after you leave the area up for the duration of the spell? This gives nb tanks a definite choice between which morph they want to take. Don't talk about warhorn when it is THE bis for ANY tank, period.

Soul siphon was a buff, offering was a buff, shades was a buff since it now gives aoe minor maim, dark cloak was a buff..

Strife was a definite nerf, path to darkness was a nerf... But all those snare and stun was in line with the rest of the abilities that had the same concept.

Look, I'm not defending ZoS at every turn but this is just bashing for the sake of... Bashing. Not every change for the class has to be for dps.

FYI, they removed the double major protection from the casting Nightblade for Bolstering. It used to give the nightblade 60% damage reduction. So yes, nerfed.

Shades will depend on how often that AoE is triggered and the damage numbers. It could be a buff or nerf still.

Dark Cloak actually may have nerfed the duration of the Minor Protection. I can't remember the duration on live off-hand. The heal is definitely nice, but I also liked to use it for stealth on certain quests like the Black Sacrament or just to avoid aggro or setup a Blade of Woe if I wanted to change up my strategy.
I'm not happy with them removing strategic options even if my nightblade is built to be durable.

aeowulf

@RavenSworn - This was just answered above by @Mystrius_Archaion

But to reiterate:

So in a trial you are using War Horn. No other ulti comes close, and it won't until mechanics dictate survivability. This puts bolstering in a situation where yo are not using in a trial, so it's only 4 of you. It will affect 4 targets currently, so you can all stand in the AE quite happily. The caster has swapped 60% damage mit for 30%, whilst giving some additional 'run around' to the group members. If they are ranged DD, they prob won't be bothered to run in because getting in melee range is too risky for them. Was 'fine' in the same way as the other class tanky ultis are fine (and read this as not used as Horn is better) Magma shell limits damage to 3% of your max health, NB just lost something that made them comparabily survivable.This is a nerf. Had it been put on veil, then yes, OK. Or put back the additional 30% damage redux.

"Soul siphon was a buff, offering was a buff, shades was a buff since it now gives aoe minor maim, dark cloak was a buff"

I didn't say Soul Siphon was nerfed, quite the opposite.
Offering - I stated it sounds improved. This is the skills 3rd major overhaul, why do I feel like it's still being tested?
Shades - see my comment about how often, of note using shades = no minor heroism
Cloak - this is an overhaul, there is nothing to base a comparison on so it can't be considered either. But 'more flexibility' is definately desired. Did state I felt it was a positive change.

Re "Not every change for the class has to be for dps." - I am a massive speaker for NB tanks, they were my class-role of choice and I know them better than anything else. More so that the DPS I just do not enjoy playing. That rotation is simply no fun. My only change to NB DPS would be fun related, otherwise i'd consider them currently pretty good.

aeowulf

These comments should be on the correct thread (not this one) - it was created to try to get an issue with the correct one resolved only, not to cause confusion, sorry if it has.

Feanor

@aeowulf

Shades not requiring a Target is a big change (and in my opinion a sizeable buff) in PvP though.

aeowulf

@Feanor - Isn't that just putting it back to how it was a while back?

Feanor

aeowulf wrote: »

@Feanor - Isn't that just putting it back to how it was a while back?

I don’t know that frankly. Some NB Main would have to answer that one.

Mystrius_Archaion

Feanor wrote: »

@aeowulf

Shades not requiring a Target is a big change (and in my opinion a sizeable buff) in PvP though.

Not shades. It's the single ranged morph. The melee shade still requires a target.

Mystrius_Archaion

aeowulf wrote: »

These comments should be on the correct thread (not this one) - it was created to try to get an issue with the correct one resolved only, not to cause confusion, sorry if it has.

They may as well just add a ZOS post here since they can't likely fix the other one. Plus, if that one was so toxic then best to let it drop into oblivion(pun intended).

aeowulf

Feanor wrote: »

aeowulf wrote: »

@Feanor - Isn't that just putting it back to how it was a while back?

I don’t know that frankly. Some NB Main would have to answer that one.

I seem to remember it not needing a target about 1+ years ago, and a tiny riot on these forums when it happened, will go digging.

mr_wazzabi

Strife nerf was unjustified. It will kill it in pve.

Everybody and their mother will use force pulse

ZOS_AntonioP

Hello everyone!

Seems there was a slight issue with the thread, but we've gone ahead and corrected it. Feel free to continue discussing these changes there.

Enjoy the day!