Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »8% more crit is more then worth the extra 10% extra Stam.
Currently LA and HA do scale with weapon/spell damage AND max resource, but the ratio is:
1 weapon/spell damage gives as much as 40 max resource for LA and HA damage
opposed to spell and abilities:
1 weapon/spell damage gives as much as 10,5 max resource for spells and abilities
The hinted change is that they will make LA/HA ratio 1/10,5 (same as abilities), this would mean a big boost to LA/HA for everyone if they only change this part of the equation. This would also mean it might be better to start stacking max resources instead of weapon/spell damage.
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »8% more crit is more then worth the extra 10% extra Stam.
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »8% more crit is more then worth the extra 10% extra Stam.
No, it's not.
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »8% more crit is more then worth the extra 10% extra Stam.
No, it's not.
You think so?
So on a Stam build, you will only have around 30k base stam. Let's remember that percentage amps are addtive and not multiplicative, now 10% of that is 3k. Average weapon damage is around 3.5k unbuffed, so let's make that 4.5k buffed. So adding 3k Stam to the average build will raise dps by about ~4%.
Average Stam build has around 60% crit, with around a .8 crit hit modifyer, higher if you are a stamblade or stamplar. To figure out the average dps increase with crit you take the crit chance and multiply by the CHD, so you would get a 48% increase in dps with the aforementioned numbers. With another 8% crit on top of the 60% we already have, that is 68% and .68*.8 is .54. so you would get a 6% average increase in dps with the Khajiits crit over the redguards 10% extra stam. Of course if you use mechanical acuity, this changes the calculations. Of course none if this takes into account the stam return from adrenaline rush.
If you have better numbers, I would like to see them.
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »8% more crit is more then worth the extra 10% extra Stam.
I would like to see crit damage done for khajiit instead of crit chance.
beetleklee wrote: »Khajiit needs a buff (and other stam races too), tired of every stam build needing to be a Redguard. It's the best choice for PVE and PVP...
The health recovery passive on Khajiit in particular is useless.
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »8% more crit is more then worth the extra 10% extra Stam.
No, it's not.
You think so?
So on a Stam build, you will only have around 30k base stam. Let's remember that percentage amps are addtive and not multiplicative, now 10% of that is 3k. Average weapon damage is around 3.5k unbuffed, so let's make that 4.5k buffed. So adding 3k Stam to the average build will raise dps by about ~4%.
Average Stam build has around 60% crit, with around a .8 crit hit modifyer, higher if you are a stamblade or stamplar. To figure out the average dps increase with crit you take the crit chance and multiply by the CHD, so you would get a 48% increase in dps with the aforementioned numbers. With another 8% crit on top of the 60% we already have, that is 68% and .68*.8 is .54. so you would get a 6% average increase in dps with the Khajiits crit over the redguards 10% extra stam. Of course if you use mechanical acuity, this changes the calculations. Of course none if this takes into account the stam return from adrenaline rush.
If you have better numbers, I would like to see them.
I can't believe you have done math about a stat that depends on RNG. Which is unrealiable. Also if we are talking about pve then khajiit's 2nd passive is useless while redguard's 3rd is literaly best thing ever a stam dd can has.
Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »8% more crit is more then worth the extra 10% extra Stam.
Even if that were a certainty in isolation (I dont believe it is), Redguard is still a much better DPS race for PVE. Better sustain equals fewer heavy attacks equals more damage. If you bring in sets like mechanical acuity into the discussion, a kahjiit's crit bonus becomes even weaker by comparison.
Also 30k stam is very low for an end game DPS, and not everything crits. I am not an expert on the math, but both of those things move the needle. What I have done is play both stam sorc and stam Dk as both Khajiit and Redguard. The later is noticeably better for both classes.
Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »8% more crit is more then worth the extra 10% extra Stam.
Even if that were a certainty in isolation (I dont believe it is), Redguard is still a much better DPS race for PVE. Better sustain equals fewer heavy attacks equals more damage. If you bring in sets like mechanical acuity into the discussion, a kahjiit's crit bonus becomes even weaker by comparison.
Also 30k stam is very low for an end game DPS, and not everything crits. I am not an expert on the math, but both of those things move the needle. What I have done is play both stam sorc and stam Dk as both Khajiit and Redguard. The later is noticeably better for both classes.
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »8% more crit is more then worth the extra 10% extra Stam.
No, it's not.
You think so?
So on a Stam build, you will only have around 30k base stam. Let's remember that percentage amps are addtive and not multiplicative, now 10% of that is 3k. Average weapon damage is around 3.5k unbuffed, so let's make that 4.5k buffed. So adding 3k Stam to the average build will raise dps by about ~4%.
Average Stam build has around 60% crit, with around a .8 crit hit modifyer, higher if you are a stamblade or stamplar. To figure out the average dps increase with crit you take the crit chance and multiply by the CHD, so you would get a 48% increase in dps with the aforementioned numbers. With another 8% crit on top of the 60% we already have, that is 68% and .68*.8 is .54. so you would get a 6% average increase in dps with the Khajiits crit over the redguards 10% extra stam. Of course if you use mechanical acuity, this changes the calculations. Of course none if this takes into account the stam return from adrenaline rush.
If you have better numbers, I would like to see them.
I can't believe you have done math about a stat that depends on RNG. Which is unrealiable. Also if we are talking about pve then khajiit's 2nd passive is useless while redguard's 3rd is literaly best thing ever a stam dd can has.
Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »8% more crit is more then worth the extra 10% extra Stam.
Even if that were a certainty in isolation (I dont believe it is), Redguard is still a much better DPS race for PVE. Better sustain equals fewer heavy attacks equals more damage. If you bring in sets like mechanical acuity into the discussion, a kahjiit's crit bonus becomes even weaker by comparison.
Also 30k stam is very low for an end game DPS, and not everything crits. I am not an expert on the math, but both of those things move the needle. What I have done is play both stam sorc and stam Dk as both Khajiit and Redguard. The later is noticeably better for both classes.




I can't believe you have done math about a stat that depends on RNG. Which is unrealiable.
This is the first time I've seen the info on scaled damage on LA/HA.
Light and Heavy Attacks now scale differently, they now scale about the same with Magicka/ Stamina as with Spell/ Weapon damage.
+4% damage ( 8% chance at +50% damage with crit) vs +5% damage (Max stat vs WD usually about 1:1 or better when converted to the equivalent), so that's a 1% difference in favor of Redguard right now.Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »8% more crit is more then worth the extra 10% extra Stam.
I'm hoping you're right, but I wish we had some math on that.
In order for the redguard DPS to not completely dominate, they have to do less damage than the khajiit, otherwise, with DPS parity, the redguard will always win because of sustain.
I'm worried that the scaling of 10% max stam on heavy and light attacks (the new scaling in Summerset), will achieve DPS parity between the two, if not overcome khajiit DPS.
Moreover, with Mechanical Acuity being the META on nearly every mag and stam build it seems, the 8% critical chance won't matter, and the max stam will win out in a big way.
Light and Heavy Attacks now scale differently, they now scale about the same with Magicka/ Stamina as with Spell/ Weapon damage.
beetleklee wrote: »Khajiit needs a buff (and other stam races too), tired of every stam build needing to be a Redguard. It's the best choice for PVE and PVP...
The health recovery passive on Khajiit in particular is useless.
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »8% more crit is more then worth the extra 10% extra Stam.
No, it's not.
You think so?
So on a Stam build, you will only have around 30k base stam. Let's remember that percentage amps are addtive and not multiplicative, now 10% of that is 3k. Average weapon damage is around 3.5k unbuffed, so let's make that 4.5k buffed. So adding 3k Stam to the average build will raise dps by about ~4%.
Average Stam build has around 60% crit, with around a .8 crit hit modifyer, higher if you are a stamblade or stamplar. To figure out the average dps increase with crit you take the crit chance and multiply by the CHD, so you would get a 48% increase in dps with the aforementioned numbers. With another 8% crit on top of the 60% we already have, that is 68% and .68*.8 is .54. so you would get a 6% average increase in dps with the Khajiits crit over the redguards 10% extra stam. Of course if you use mechanical acuity, this changes the calculations. Of course none if this takes into account the stam return from adrenaline rush.
If you have better numbers, I would like to see them.
I can't believe you have done math about a stat that depends on RNG. Which is unrealiable. Also if we are talking about pve then khajiit's 2nd passive is useless while redguard's 3rd is literaly best thing ever a stam dd can has.
you can, quite easily quantify crit in term of average dps increase, on course if you are only doing a 3 million dummy or mob, you will have more variation in crit then with a higher health mobs or the 25 million health dummy. on a long enough parse, your crit ratio will stabilize. check out this thread, https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/318595/introduction-to-pve-damage-calculation-homestead/p1, for more info, some of the details are off, it is from a few patches ago but the underlying math is the same.Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »8% more crit is more then worth the extra 10% extra Stam.
Even if that were a certainty in isolation (I dont believe it is), Redguard is still a much better DPS race for PVE. Better sustain equals fewer heavy attacks equals more damage. If you bring in sets like mechanical acuity into the discussion, a kahjiit's crit bonus becomes even weaker by comparison.
Also 30k stam is very low for an end game DPS, and not everything crits. I am not an expert on the math, but both of those things move the needle. What I have done is play both stam sorc and stam Dk as both Khajiit and Redguard. The later is noticeably better for both classes.
30k is not really that low. you have to remember that percent amps are addactive, as in they do not improve each other.
doing more reseach, it seem that the 20% you get from CP is multiplicative but the rest of the percent amp are additive.
see the following-
base stam with all gold enchants and jewelry, veli/mechical acutiy (you could put hundings here and it would be the same amount of stam) and war machine ( i am giving you the benefit here with war machine, most people will have either VO or agility)
as you can see the base stam is only 28.8k. then add 100 cp into the green tree, that gives you a 20% amp-
that boosts it to a base of 33.5k, this is the amount that all other percent amps are calutlated from, as you can see here by adding 10% from the redguard passive-
36940-33582=3358, which is almost exactly 10%.
the add on 4% from undatunted mettle using one heavy and the rest medium--
that brings the amount to 38283. and 38283-36940 is 1343, 1343 is 4% of 33575, close enough to the amount after cp.
all of this changes nothing about what i said, 3.3k more stam is only 300 more stam then i said, which would only add like .4% more dps. not even close to the 6% that the Khajiit passive adds on average.
oh but what about mechanical acuity you say. well you can do the math and see that the Khajiit passive is still better.
mechanical acuity adds 5 seconds of guaranteed crit every 13 seconds. so the average increase in crit is at best a 27.7% increase in crit 5/18. so if we add that to the average of 60% that a stam toon has, you get 87%. then take that 87% byt he CHD, .8 you get .70 and then you add the 8% from the Khajiit passive and you get .95*.8 and that is .76, yet again a 6% average increase in dps, .76-.70, so even with mechanical acuity, the Khajiit passive is worth more raw dps then the max stam.
kylewwefan wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »8% more crit is more then worth the extra 10% extra Stam.
No, it's not.
You think so?
So on a Stam build, you will only have around 30k base stam. Let's remember that percentage amps are addtive and not multiplicative, now 10% of that is 3k. Average weapon damage is around 3.5k unbuffed, so let's make that 4.5k buffed. So adding 3k Stam to the average build will raise dps by about ~4%.
Average Stam build has around 60% crit, with around a .8 crit hit modifyer, higher if you are a stamblade or stamplar. To figure out the average dps increase with crit you take the crit chance and multiply by the CHD, so you would get a 48% increase in dps with the aforementioned numbers. With another 8% crit on top of the 60% we already have, that is 68% and .68*.8 is .54. so you would get a 6% average increase in dps with the Khajiits crit over the redguards 10% extra stam. Of course if you use mechanical acuity, this changes the calculations. Of course none if this takes into account the stam return from adrenaline rush.
If you have better numbers, I would like to see them.
I can't believe you have done math about a stat that depends on RNG. Which is unrealiable. Also if we are talking about pve then khajiit's 2nd passive is useless while redguard's 3rd is literaly best thing ever a stam dd can has.
you can, quite easily quantify crit in term of average dps increase, on course if you are only doing a 3 million dummy or mob, you will have more variation in crit then with a higher health mobs or the 25 million health dummy. on a long enough parse, your crit ratio will stabilize. check out this thread, https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/318595/introduction-to-pve-damage-calculation-homestead/p1, for more info, some of the details are off, it is from a few patches ago but the underlying math is the same.Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »8% more crit is more then worth the extra 10% extra Stam.
Even if that were a certainty in isolation (I dont believe it is), Redguard is still a much better DPS race for PVE. Better sustain equals fewer heavy attacks equals more damage. If you bring in sets like mechanical acuity into the discussion, a kahjiit's crit bonus becomes even weaker by comparison.
Also 30k stam is very low for an end game DPS, and not everything crits. I am not an expert on the math, but both of those things move the needle. What I have done is play both stam sorc and stam Dk as both Khajiit and Redguard. The later is noticeably better for both classes.
30k is not really that low. you have to remember that percent amps are addactive, as in they do not improve each other.
doing more reseach, it seem that the 20% you get from CP is multiplicative but the rest of the percent amp are additive.
see the following-
base stam with all gold enchants and jewelry, veli/mechical acutiy (you could put hundings here and it would be the same amount of stam) and war machine ( i am giving you the benefit here with war machine, most people will have either VO or agility)
as you can see the base stam is only 28.8k. then add 100 cp into the green tree, that gives you a 20% amp-
that boosts it to a base of 33.5k, this is the amount that all other percent amps are calutlated from, as you can see here by adding 10% from the redguard passive-
36940-33582=3358, which is almost exactly 10%.
the add on 4% from undatunted mettle using one heavy and the rest medium--
that brings the amount to 38283. and 38283-36940 is 1343, 1343 is 4% of 33575, close enough to the amount after cp.
all of this changes nothing about what i said, 3.3k more stam is only 300 more stam then i said, which would only add like .4% more dps. not even close to the 6% that the Khajiit passive adds on average.
oh but what about mechanical acuity you say. well you can do the math and see that the Khajiit passive is still better.
mechanical acuity adds 5 seconds of guaranteed crit every 13 seconds. so the average increase in crit is at best a 27.7% increase in crit 5/18. so if we add that to the average of 60% that a stam toon has, you get 87%. then take that 87% byt he CHD, .8 you get .70 and then you add the 8% from the Khajiit passive and you get .95*.8 and that is .76, yet again a 6% average increase in dps, .76-.70, so even with mechanical acuity, the Khajiit passive is worth more raw dps then the max stam.
This makes me head hurt. Is there a TLDR?