Are DK's viable in PVP at the moment?

Dardas

Is it useful to have a DK in PVP right now? Or am I better off using a different class in PVP?

I have a DK stam tank, I am thinking about making it into a more support role

Checkmath

Sure it is viable, stamdks belong to the two tanky 1vX classes on the stamina side. Some will tell, that they are weak, but they can be very strong in tanking several enemies and surprise them with an ultimate to get them into kill range

Datolite

I've heard stamdks could be in a better place right now, but I've also seen some pretty deadly ones spamming swing and dragon jumping their way into MVP land. This is often due to the Asylum greatsword build.

Dardas

I am hoping with Summerset and the Psijic skill line, the skill line can be used for PVP and is useful to help make the DK more useful and enjoyable

starlizard70ub17_ESO

Stam DK can be pretty tough in a good group. They root with talons, use brawler, dragon leap, reactive armor in combo with other DPSers and support healers, they are the core of a very powerful PvP group. Magic DKs are also viable, but more so in a support DPS role.

Grimlok_S

starlizard70ub17_ESO wrote: »

Magic DKs are also viable, but more so in a support DPS role.

ಠ_ಠ

Magdk can be especially bursty.

Reverb

It's more of a challenge now than at most points in ESO history, but mag DK is still viable, and stam DK is devastating in the right hands. My biggest threat is from ranged, non reflectable attacks. If you get close enough, I can keep you permarooted and stunned long enough to get you down. Can still 1vX as well, but have to play the long game and wear down opponents resources.

Thogard

Viable? Yes. If you’re a better player than your opponent then you’ll win. This game is well-enough balanced that skill trumps class choice.
But just because you can be viable on any character doesn’t mean that Stam DK is good. Many people, myself included, consider it the weakest class / spec for PvP at the moment. If you’re good you can still kill and win with it, but that same player would be even more effective on any other class.

Metemsycosis

By any other class you mean warden tho

Ragnarock41

Metemsycosis wrote: »

By any other class you mean warden tho

You're basically comparing the best PvP spec to the worst one.

Tho I've crushed lots of bad stamdens on my Dk, player skill always comes first. The class you choose is only a limitation if you're strong enough to push the class to its limits.

Xsorus

I’ll be honest; I played my stam dk for the first time in pvp in probably a year and a half last weekend and it didn’t seem bad at all. Very easy to get kills and stay up.

Torbschka

All those stam DK's claiming its the weakest spec - I dont see that. IMO every stam spec is above magplar/magden/magdk for solo pvp.

I dont talk about groupplay.

Grimlok_S

Nothing more satisfying as stamdk than beating the fotm hoppers,

https://youtu.be/CpIyqkVDkW4

Torbschka wrote: »

All those stam DK's claiming its the weakest spec - I dont see that. IMO every stam spec is above magplar/magden/magdk for solo pvp.

I'd bet on a magplar over stamdk. The way eclipse interacts with volatile can make for some really whacky burst.

I'd double that bet for a magdk.

Xsorus

Torbschka wrote: »

All those stam DK's claiming its the weakest spec - I dont see that. IMO every stam spec is above magplar/magden/magdk for solo pvp.

I dont talk about groupplay.

My magplar is pretty nasty right now as well, I’m setting up my magicka dk so I’ll have a comparison with that. Honestly to kill most stam based characters right now all ya need is defile. Thankfully I didn’t deal with that much it seemed while on my stam dk.

yodased

A d.k. mini game is resource management. If you can learn how to play a stam dk turtleburst its fun. Basically you rope-a-dope your oppenent to burn their resources on you as you either defile/debuff or build proc, then uppercut -> leap -> executioner dead.

Mag dk is more the multi dot wear your health down or super squish burst relying on unblockable cc.

They are like the one "technical" fighter in a fighter game. If you are a perfect ninja with them they are beast, but most players would be better off playing e.honda or chun li.

Thogard

Grimlok_S wrote: »

Nothing more satisfying as stamdk than beating the fotm hoppers,

https://youtu.be/CpIyqkVDkW4

Torbschka wrote: »

All those stam DK's claiming its the weakest spec - I dont see that. IMO every stam spec is above magplar/magden/magdk for solo pvp.

I'd bet on a magplar over stamdk. The way eclipse interacts with volatile can make for some really whacky burst.

I'd double that bet for a magdk.

I don’t think this is very representative of anything... you’re winning a 1v1 against a player that is so new to the class that he either A. Hasn’t unlocked vigor yet or B. Doesn’t use vigor and hasn’t figured out how to break roots or use forward momentum.

The_Brosteen

Thogard wrote: »

Viable? Yes. If you’re a better player than your opponent then you’ll win. This game is well-enough balanced that skill trumps class choice.
But just because you can be viable on any character doesn’t mean that Stam DK is good. Many people, myself included, consider it the weakest class / spec for PvP at the moment. If you’re good you can still kill and win with it, but that same player would be even more effective on any other class.

Stam dk and mag dk are incredibly strong right now. The class synergizes well using sword and board as well as heavy armor. It has enough survivability with class passives that allow it to thrive in medium or light as well, which makes it very powerful.

I agree skill does supersede class but this class has so many useful tools at its disposal it's hard to say it's not in a good spot. Right now stam nb seems to be the flavor of the week based on the nerf threads, dks having major mending essentially cancels out defile from incap strike. So in "the current meta" dks are not only viable but very useful. Not to mention the group utility with cc's.

Thogard

The_Brosteen wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Viable? Yes. If you’re a better player than your opponent then you’ll win. This game is well-enough balanced that skill trumps class choice.
But just because you can be viable on any character doesn’t mean that Stam DK is good. Many people, myself included, consider it the weakest class / spec for PvP at the moment. If you’re good you can still kill and win with it, but that same player would be even more effective on any other class.

Stam dk and mag dk are incredibly strong right now. The class synergizes well using sword and board as well as heavy armor. It has enough survivability with class passives that allow it to thrive in medium or light as well, which makes it very powerful.

I agree skill does supersede class but this class has so many useful tools at its disposal it's hard to say it's not in a good spot. Right now stam nb seems to be the flavor of the week based on the nerf threads, dks having major mending essentially cancels out defile from incap strike. So in "the current meta" dks are not only viable but very useful. Not to mention the group utility with cc's.

I strongly disagree with many of your points.
1. A heavy armor Stam DK will have to either give up the rally heal or will be snared / rooted for most fights against good players
2. Major mending is not a counter to major defile. Major vitality, damage shields, and vanish are the counters to major defile.
3. You will have serious mag sustain issues if you’re running petrify and igneous along with your other buffs on a Stam DK
4. Mag DKs have never been weaker than right now
5. The class passives are the worst in the game. They are certainly the least used of any class and they provide the least DPS increase of any class for Stam DKs.
6. A Stam DK’s only real advantages were 1. Permablocking 2. Healing received 3. Sustain. All have been nerfed significantly in the last year (befoul increase being the nerf to healing received)
7. Leap is still fun though

Marginis

Dardas wrote: »

Is it useful to have a DK in PVP right now? Or am I better off using a different class in PVP?

I have a DK stam tank, I am thinking about making it into a more support role

DK tanks exist, so...

Yes.

Thogard

Marginis wrote: »

Dardas wrote: »

Is it useful to have a DK in PVP right now? Or am I better off using a different class in PVP?

I have a DK stam tank, I am thinking about making it into a more support role

DK tanks exist, so...

Yes.

He said “useful”

I know a lot of people who would say that there is nothing useful about a DK tank in PvP

Aedaryl

Yeah, DK are viable in PvP.

Both mag and stam can be very succesfull.

People saying they are not viable just need to l2p.

Every class is viable in this game, that doesn't mean classes are balanced. Mag dk is very strong, stam dk a little less and don't forget stam warden is just better.

A good video of a good stam dk killing (also) good people will help you to understand how to play it :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmQgMWMozbM&t=5s

Marginis

Thogard wrote: »

Marginis wrote: »

Dardas wrote: »

Is it useful to have a DK in PVP right now? Or am I better off using a different class in PVP?

I have a DK stam tank, I am thinking about making it into a more support role

DK tanks exist, so...

Yes.

He said “useful”

I know a lot of people who would say that there is nothing useful about a DK tank in PvP

Wait, double checking... and... yup, yeah no definitely, that's a burn.

Xsorus

Oh another thing about Stamina DK, last time I played my stam dk I was Nord; I switched to Redguard and holy hell.....you go from Nord to Redguard and its insane how much easier Stamina Management is....

Kronuxx

It's true that in the hands of a capable player, stamina dk can be viable. But that's obvious for any class that that same capable person plays. What makes the difference and what @Thogard is pointing out, is that same capable player with their skill set would have a more successful time doing well in pvp on practically any other class that has the proper tool kit for burst damage (with two exceptions; mentioned below).

People need to realize something here:
1) Most 1vXing occurs against potatoes. You'll be very hard pressed to 1vX other talented players who run a tight group, unless those talented players make some potatoe decisions at the time of the fight. We all do it at one point or another.
2) What is successful in open world will not be as successful in duels or non cp bg's. Those all are three different beasts and as such, you will have different classes that excel in each category. Stam DK does do well when you are geared for duels, I won't deny that.
3) Again, Stam DK can do well. That's not the point. Rather, Stam DK requires more patience and better animation canceling and time based skill bursting compared to other classes to eliminate your opponent. Why? Because stamina DK's lack the proper tool kit for an immediate burst. Unlike stam nb's with incap at 70 ultimate, surprise attack, assassin's scourge; or stamplar's jabs with POTL and added dot pressure. While Dizzying swing is the only true spammable burst for DK, which is horrible against half-baked decent players. So you're left with venomous claws, cleave, rending slashes, and noxious breath for dot pressure. That is not burst. That IS DOT pressure. The only burst DK's get is from ultimates. And obviously, as we all know, ultimates have to be built up. So again, this ties into your skill as a player to efficiently and effectively used time based burst based on ultimate availabilty to help eliminate your opponent when they are vunerable.

So yes, in the proper hands a stam dk can do well, but in the proper hands, any other class can exceed the Stam DK (with the exception of probably magplar and magden) in properly applied burst damage which is king in PvP. A dead opponent is a no-threat opponent.

Side note: I have run into some vicious magden's and magplars though, so...

Sixty5

I ran into an Empress today. She was a DK.

So sure.

ChildOfLight

Spreading misinformation, claiming stamDk is viable because of Brawler and Talons just drives me crazy.
Any half good player (or group of players) will make you eat your own *** if you just dare to waste precious slots for those skills.

Reality is stamDK is light years behind MagDKs PVP wise.
The class is just designed to be magika based despite the crying walltexts MagikaForumKnights are spreading all around the forum, trying to attribute all the nerfhammers hitting the class through this year to themselves.

Eg. you can easily reach a tooltip on Flame Lash (not considering the powered one) of 16.5k - 17k
The only way stamDk can reach simil numbers on a direct damage skill is having around 4k of weapon damage and using Dizzying Swing that has a cast time and is HIGHLY unreliable.
Not talking about the class passives and how they just heavily favours magika .

I just played my character too much, spending too many resources, gold and whatever to come back.
But I hate this game for having me misleading during the character creation screen 2 years ago

Ragnarock41

For what OP specificly wants, magDk tank is the better choice.

All stamDK can do as a tank is carry his own weight and maybe hurt your feelings because he will laugh at your damage output unless you have defiles.

Veg

ChildOfLight wrote: »

Spreading misinformation, claiming stamDk is viable because of Brawler and Talons just drives me crazy.
Any half good player (or group of players) will make you eat your own *** if you just dare to waste precious slots for those skills.

Reality is stamDK is light years behind MagDKs PVP wise.
The class is just designed to be magika based despite the crying walltexts MagikaForumKnights are spreading all around the forum, trying to attribute all the nerfhammers hitting the class through this year to themselves.

Eg. you can easily reach a tooltip on Flame Lash (not considering the powered one) of 16.5k - 17k
The only way stamDk can reach simil numbers on a direct damage skill is having around 4k of weapon damage and using Dizzying Swing that has a cast time and is HIGHLY unreliable.
Not talking about the class passives and how they just heavily favours magika .

I just played my character too much, spending too many resources, gold and whatever to come back.
But I hate this game for having me misleading during the character creation screen 2 years ago

Easy there.. no one is going to have to 16k tooltip on flame lash. Thats an exaggeration and you know it. around 13k is already min maxed with temporary buffs.

Not disagreeing with stamDK's being trash but lets not put mDK's on a gold platter because of it. Both sides of the class are bad at getting kills compared to the warden, stamplar and stamblade power houses.

Ragnarock41

Veg wrote: »

ChildOfLight wrote: »

Spreading misinformation, claiming stamDk is viable because of Brawler and Talons just drives me crazy.
Any half good player (or group of players) will make you eat your own *** if you just dare to waste precious slots for those skills.

Reality is stamDK is light years behind MagDKs PVP wise.
The class is just designed to be magika based despite the crying walltexts MagikaForumKnights are spreading all around the forum, trying to attribute all the nerfhammers hitting the class through this year to themselves.

Eg. you can easily reach a tooltip on Flame Lash (not considering the powered one) of 16.5k - 17k
The only way stamDk can reach simil numbers on a direct damage skill is having around 4k of weapon damage and using Dizzying Swing that has a cast time and is HIGHLY unreliable.
Not talking about the class passives and how they just heavily favours magika .

I just played my character too much, spending too many resources, gold and whatever to come back.
But I hate this game for having me misleading during the character creation screen 2 years ago

Easy there.. no one is going to have to 16k tooltip on flame lash. Thats an exaggeration and you know it. around 13k is already min maxed with temporary buffs.

Not disagreeing with stamDK's being trash but lets not put mDK's on a gold platter because of it. Both sides of the class are bad at getting kills compared to the warden, stamplar and stamblade power houses.

I want to say that both Dks are kind of trash, but magDk is less stinky trash. Hopefully the new chapter will bring some good changes and pls no more ''this is a buff if you're naked'' kind of buffs. I can dream I guess.

ChildOfLight

Blobs streaming right now.
Ask him to show his lash tooltip.

Ragnarock41

ChildOfLight wrote: »

Blobs streaming right now.
Ask him to show his lash tooltip.

honestly on the flame lash topic, you could give stamDKs a flame lash that has like 10k tooltip at 4k weapon damage, and it would still be better than dizzying swing for them.

Flame lash is VERY strong, but its one of the only things left good about magDk, and it recently took a nerf too.