Coagulated Blood Needs Help after embers/whip dodgeable

callen4492

The Magic DK skill Coagulated blood is pitifully weak compared to other heals. It's weaker than other class heals that also heal your allies, yet coag blood only heals yourself! It always has been weak but magick dk's (such as myself) don't really have another option for an auto heal. Now that embers and whip are dodgeable it can be really hard to get a good heal in a critical moment. As a secondary effect, it boosts health recovery WHICH IS A TOTAL WASTE BECAUSE MOST MAG DK's are vampires. I think one of two things need to happen to this skill.

1) It becomes a stronger heal

Or

2) There is a mobility buff added to it as a secondary, such as major expedition or break free/snare and imooblization immunity.

Let me know what you think. As a longtime mag dk, I would love this but I want to know what others think. Also, I have played quite a bit on other classes with much better healing, so I have a pretty good idea of how coag blood compares.

Thirdly, it could have some kind of ally healing effect. I would like that as well.

Finally, I have to admit. I don't use mist form like most mag dk's recommend. I simply hate the idea of that skill. I also hate the idea of having to be stage 4 vamp to use it instead of stage 3.

Let me know what you think.

-The One, The Only, ThePhatLard

ak_pvp

To be honest, nah. We aren't templars and we don't need a massive burst. It works situationally like it should. And once defile is nerfed, which it probably will be, it won't be as problematic.

Landing embers isn't much different. A range increase to 8m for both PvE and PvP would be beneficial, that skill is temperamental as hell. Dodge is a problem for powerlash because of the requirement of a CC, which is basically a dodge now indicator, then an initial hit, then the power lash hit. Giving 3 GCDs to stop it.

I personally have been messing with cauterize and bats. Cauterize doesn't heal much, non crit is 3k CP, 2.5 noCP, but its decent to keep you topped off, allowing you to save mag for an important dragon blood. Bats is a good pressure ult, "stops" cloaking near, and heals you well.

DKs need to spend our limited Wroblepoints™ on a good buff that might lift the class from bottom tier for OW for the first time in years. A buff to our once class defining wings, hopefully a snare removal and some actual usability, should be more important. Sustain too.
Cauterize should be an every 3s AoE heal though. DK healing is poor.

NyassaV

Yes lets give the class with the most CC and best single target pressure snare/immobilization immunity through class skills when no other class can do that. (Not talking about Purges) What could go wrong?

DK has a source of Major Expedition too, empowering chains. Though it would be nice if that got a duration buff

Lucky28

if anything. reduce the cost on it.

ak_pvp

NyassaV wrote: »

Yes lets give the class with the most CC and best single target pressure snare/immobilization immunity through class skills when no other class can do that. (Not talking about Purges) What could go wrong?

DK has a source of Major Expedition too, empowering chains. Though it would be nice if that got a duration buff

Sorc has more CC. Arguably better, just not integrated into their kit as well. NB has definitely better CC, no AoE root, but fear>foss, and hits from stealth. Warden has a talons look alike, but worse CC. 2/3 out of 5... Sucks to be the lock down and burn class right?

Speaking of burning Any stam class can get much better ST pressure. Bleeds are very strong, poison injection executes, something like a stamsorcs hurricane can't be purged, masters bow, and an execute to finish of with dots. 1 extra ST dot doesn't do much, especially in the purgebot/healbot for groups or cloak meta. DKs go light armour+resto and burst now.

Chains can *** right off tbh. Its a clunkier skill that rune prison, has occasional, but better height issues, and makes no sense. 1) Chains to pull you, looks goofy. 2) Expedition AFTER gapclosing. Wowee.

They need snare immunity more than any other class because of the worst mobility in game. Relying on block, which slows itself. Templar, whilst pretty bad at least has purge on top of it. Sorcs streak+lightning form (ehh) NBs, shade+path+concealed, and kind of cloak (Can't really be snared after if nothing can hit you.) wardens have warden wings. And stam as a whole has speed+stam pots.

Waffennacht

ak_pvp wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

Yes lets give the class with the most CC and best single target pressure snare/immobilization immunity through class skills when no other class can do that. (Not talking about Purges) What could go wrong?

DK has a source of Major Expedition too, empowering chains. Though it would be nice if that got a duration buff

Sorc has more CC. Arguably better, just not integrated into their kit as well. NB has definitely better CC, no AoE root, but fear>foss, and hits from stealth. Warden has a talons look alike, but worse CC. 2/3 out of 5... Sucks to be the lock down and burn class right?

Speaking of burning Any stam class can get much better ST pressure. Bleeds are very strong, poison injection executes, something like a stamsorcs hurricane can't be purged, masters bow, and an execute to finish of with dots. 1 extra ST dot doesn't do much, especially in the purgebot/healbot for groups or cloak meta. DKs go light armour+resto and burst now.

Chains can *** right off tbh. Its a clunkier skill that rune prison, has occasional, but better height issues, and makes no sense. 1) Chains to pull you, looks goofy. 2) Expedition AFTER gapclosing. Wowee.

They need snare immunity more than any other class because of the worst mobility in game. Relying on block, which slows itself. Templar, whilst pretty bad at least has purge on top of it. Sorcs streak+lightning form (ehh) NBs, shade+path+concealed, and kind of cloak (Can't really be snared after if nothing can hit you.) wardens have warden wings. And stam as a whole has speed+stam pots.

Gotta be honest, there's nothing that would stop a mobile DK

ak_pvp

Waffennacht wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

Yes lets give the class with the most CC and best single target pressure snare/immobilization immunity through class skills when no other class can do that. (Not talking about Purges) What could go wrong?

DK has a source of Major Expedition too, empowering chains. Though it would be nice if that got a duration buff

Sorc has more CC. Arguably better, just not integrated into their kit as well. NB has definitely better CC, no AoE root, but fear>foss, and hits from stealth. Warden has a talons look alike, but worse CC. 2/3 out of 5... Sucks to be the lock down and burn class right?

Speaking of burning Any stam class can get much better ST pressure. Bleeds are very strong, poison injection executes, something like a stamsorcs hurricane can't be purged, masters bow, and an execute to finish of with dots. 1 extra ST dot doesn't do much, especially in the purgebot/healbot for groups or cloak meta. DKs go light armour+resto and burst now.

Chains can *** right off tbh. Its a clunkier skill that rune prison, has occasional, but better height issues, and makes no sense. 1) Chains to pull you, looks goofy. 2) Expedition AFTER gapclosing. Wowee.

They need snare immunity more than any other class because of the worst mobility in game. Relying on block, which slows itself. Templar, whilst pretty bad at least has purge on top of it. Sorcs streak+lightning form (ehh) NBs, shade+path+concealed, and kind of cloak (Can't really be snared after if nothing can hit you.) wardens have warden wings. And stam as a whole has speed+stam pots.

Gotta be honest, there's nothing that would stop a mobile DK

Probably running out of Mag tbh. 4k every 4s is expensive. I don't want a mobile DK. I want a dragon-knight. Slow, steady, wingy. It wouldn't be faster than your current DKs, just using wings instead of commisting magicka suicide. They tried to band aid mobility with a gapcloser, and I want that stuff gone.

Savos_Saren

ak_pvp wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

Yes lets give the class with the most CC and best single target pressure snare/immobilization immunity through class skills when no other class can do that. (Not talking about Purges) What could go wrong?

DK has a source of Major Expedition too, empowering chains. Though it would be nice if that got a duration buff

Sorc has more CC. Arguably better, just not integrated into their kit as well. NB has definitely better CC, no AoE root, but fear>foss, and hits from stealth. Warden has a talons look alike, but worse CC. 2/3 out of 5... Sucks to be the lock down and burn class right?

Speaking of burning Any stam class can get much better ST pressure. Bleeds are very strong, poison injection executes, something like a stamsorcs hurricane can't be purged, masters bow, and an execute to finish of with dots. 1 extra ST dot doesn't do much, especially in the purgebot/healbot for groups or cloak meta. DKs go light armour+resto and burst now.

Chains can *** right off tbh. Its a clunkier skill that rune prison, has occasional, but better height issues, and makes no sense. 1) Chains to pull you, looks goofy. 2) Expedition AFTER gapclosing. Wowee.

They need snare immunity more than any other class because of the worst mobility in game. Relying on block, which slows itself. Templar, whilst pretty bad at least has purge on top of it. Sorcs streak+lightning form (ehh) NBs, shade+path+concealed, and kind of cloak (Can't really be snared after if nothing can hit you.) wardens have warden wings. And stam as a whole has speed+stam pots.

I wish ZoS would listen to my suggestion. I say remove Major Expedition from Chains and put Minor Expedition on Spiked Armor. That way- there's no threat of DKs being too mobile... but we also don't have to rely on a gap closer.

I still don't understand how major expedition on a gap closer is supposed to help me catch up to/get away from a fight that's all the way across the Battlegrounds arena. Same can be applied to catching up to a fight at a keep. Minor Expedition on a common skill would help tremendously.

BohnT

ak_pvp wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

Yes lets give the class with the most CC and best single target pressure snare/immobilization immunity through class skills when no other class can do that. (Not talking about Purges) What could go wrong?

DK has a source of Major Expedition too, empowering chains. Though it would be nice if that got a duration buff

Sorc has more CC. Arguably better, just not integrated into their kit as well. NB has definitely better CC, no AoE root, but fear>foss, and hits from stealth. Warden has a talons look alike, but worse CC. 2/3 out of 5... Sucks to be the lock down and burn class right?

Speaking of burning Any stam class can get much better ST pressure. Bleeds are very strong, poison injection executes, something like a stamsorcs hurricane can't be purged, masters bow, and an execute to finish of with dots. 1 extra ST dot doesn't do much, especially in the purgebot/healbot for groups or cloak meta. DKs go light armour+resto and burst now.

Chains can *** right off tbh. Its a clunkier skill that rune prison, has occasional, but better height issues, and makes no sense. 1) Chains to pull you, looks goofy. 2) Expedition AFTER gapclosing. Wowee.

They need snare immunity more than any other class because of the worst mobility in game. Relying on block, which slows itself. Templar, whilst pretty bad at least has purge on top of it. Sorcs streak+lightning form (ehh) NBs, shade+path+concealed, and kind of cloak (Can't really be snared after if nothing can hit you.) wardens have warden wings. And stam as a whole has speed+stam pots.

DK is the class that actually makes good use of the hard and soft CCs it has. Sorcs don't gain anything in a 1v1 spamming encase, rune prison only stuns while fossilize does decent damage (3-4k) in cyro, roots the enemy or sets them off balance and talons are just a great skill overall. DK actually benefits from the lock down. If you are close to a sorc that's not scary but when a DK locks you down you'll feel it.

DK has great pressure with Dots + burst via whip + FoO+ inhales second hit. Something most stam dot builds lack.
Also we have one class with purge and no one will keep purging all dots for the whole fight that's not sustainabl it just takes more time.

Just use chains once and stop claiming it's bad. It's the best gapcloser in the game.
-undodgeable
-actually works now in 99% of all cases and when it fails all others would have failed too
-less vulnerable to lag as you stick to your enemy and Port to him even when he's running out of range
-fire damage = good chance to proc burning and 25% damage boost against vamps (more than 50% of all players)
-major expedition for 8 seconds which is a great thing because you are now more mobile than the person you want to kill so he has an even harder time escaping
-empower for your next skill
Please just slot the skill and use it is absolutely awesome.

The last thing is absolutely needed. Give us snare removal on reflective plate

montjie

only zerglings use chains from my experiences

reiverx

Chains would be awesome if Cyrodiil was a football field. For now, it's just awful and not worth sacrificing a slot for.

DDuke

Savos_Saren wrote: »

I still don't understand how major expedition on a gap closer is supposed to help me catch up to/get away from a fight that's all the way across the Battlegrounds arena. Same can be applied to catching up to a fight at a keep. Minor Expedition on a common skill would help tremendously.

The Major Expedition helps you keep up with anyone. It means a stam build can't just Shuffle->Dodge with speed potions to get out of your whip range in a jiffy and force you to spam Empowering Chains again.

Why on earth would you not want Major Expedition on a class with pretty much exclusively melee damage? That's literally the best buff you can have, whether you're escaping or chasing someone.

Now, barring the Major Expedition the skill has just about as many uses in getting away from a fight as Ambush or Crit Rush, but those situations do exist.

Joy_Division

Savos_Saren wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

Yes lets give the class with the most CC and best single target pressure snare/immobilization immunity through class skills when no other class can do that. (Not talking about Purges) What could go wrong?

DK has a source of Major Expedition too, empowering chains. Though it would be nice if that got a duration buff

Sorc has more CC. Arguably better, just not integrated into their kit as well. NB has definitely better CC, no AoE root, but fear>foss, and hits from stealth. Warden has a talons look alike, but worse CC. 2/3 out of 5... Sucks to be the lock down and burn class right?

Speaking of burning Any stam class can get much better ST pressure. Bleeds are very strong, poison injection executes, something like a stamsorcs hurricane can't be purged, masters bow, and an execute to finish of with dots. 1 extra ST dot doesn't do much, especially in the purgebot/healbot for groups or cloak meta. DKs go light armour+resto and burst now.

Chains can *** right off tbh. Its a clunkier skill that rune prison, has occasional, but better height issues, and makes no sense. 1) Chains to pull you, looks goofy. 2) Expedition AFTER gapclosing. Wowee.

They need snare immunity more than any other class because of the worst mobility in game. Relying on block, which slows itself. Templar, whilst pretty bad at least has purge on top of it. Sorcs streak+lightning form (ehh) NBs, shade+path+concealed, and kind of cloak (Can't really be snared after if nothing can hit you.) wardens have warden wings. And stam as a whole has speed+stam pots.

I still don't understand how major expedition on a gap closer is supposed to help me catch up to/get away from a fight that's all the way across the Battlegrounds arena. Same can be applied to catching up to a fight at a keep. Minor Expedition on a common skill would help tremendously.

I would love major expedition on Toppling Charge

BohnT

Joy_Division wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

Yes lets give the class with the most CC and best single target pressure snare/immobilization immunity through class skills when no other class can do that. (Not talking about Purges) What could go wrong?

DK has a source of Major Expedition too, empowering chains. Though it would be nice if that got a duration buff

Sorc has more CC. Arguably better, just not integrated into their kit as well. NB has definitely better CC, no AoE root, but fear>foss, and hits from stealth. Warden has a talons look alike, but worse CC. 2/3 out of 5... Sucks to be the lock down and burn class right?

Speaking of burning Any stam class can get much better ST pressure. Bleeds are very strong, poison injection executes, something like a stamsorcs hurricane can't be purged, masters bow, and an execute to finish of with dots. 1 extra ST dot doesn't do much, especially in the purgebot/healbot for groups or cloak meta. DKs go light armour+resto and burst now.

Chains can *** right off tbh. Its a clunkier skill that rune prison, has occasional, but better height issues, and makes no sense. 1) Chains to pull you, looks goofy. 2) Expedition AFTER gapclosing. Wowee.

They need snare immunity more than any other class because of the worst mobility in game. Relying on block, which slows itself. Templar, whilst pretty bad at least has purge on top of it. Sorcs streak+lightning form (ehh) NBs, shade+path+concealed, and kind of cloak (Can't really be snared after if nothing can hit you.) wardens have warden wings. And stam as a whole has speed+stam pots.

I still don't understand how major expedition on a gap closer is supposed to help me catch up to/get away from a fight that's all the way across the Battlegrounds arena. Same can be applied to catching up to a fight at a keep. Minor Expedition on a common skill would help tremendously.

I would love major expedition on Toppling Charge

I would love to have major expedition on at least one ability on templar even if it's Sun shield

Savos_Saren

DDuke wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

I still don't understand how major expedition on a gap closer is supposed to help me catch up to/get away from a fight that's all the way across the Battlegrounds arena. Same can be applied to catching up to a fight at a keep. Minor Expedition on a common skill would help tremendously.

The Major Expedition helps you keep up with anyone. It means a stam build can't just Shuffle->Dodge with speed potions to get out of your whip range in a jiffy and force you to spam Empowering Chains again.

Why on earth would you not want Major Expedition on a class with pretty much exclusively melee damage? That's literally the best buff you can have, whether you're escaping or chasing someone.

Now, barring the Major Expedition the skill has just about as many uses in getting away from a fight as Ambush or Crit Rush, but those situations do exist.

Don't get me wrong- I want Major Expedition on my mDK. But people complain that a tanky class shouldn't have mobility... and apparently Wrobel agrees. My compromise was to put minor expedition on an ability that doesn't require you to gap close.

However, I would LOVE for Major Expedition to be on Spiked Armor instead. That way, as you buff up, you can get to the fight faster and then gap close to the enemy.

I can't count the times that I've been chasing after someone and spamming my chains button... but they're always juuuuuust out of range. If major expedition was on a non-target ability, it would help tremendously.

Savos_Saren

Joy_Division wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

Yes lets give the class with the most CC and best single target pressure snare/immobilization immunity through class skills when no other class can do that. (Not talking about Purges) What could go wrong?

DK has a source of Major Expedition too, empowering chains. Though it would be nice if that got a duration buff

Sorc has more CC. Arguably better, just not integrated into their kit as well. NB has definitely better CC, no AoE root, but fear>foss, and hits from stealth. Warden has a talons look alike, but worse CC. 2/3 out of 5... Sucks to be the lock down and burn class right?

Speaking of burning Any stam class can get much better ST pressure. Bleeds are very strong, poison injection executes, something like a stamsorcs hurricane can't be purged, masters bow, and an execute to finish of with dots. 1 extra ST dot doesn't do much, especially in the purgebot/healbot for groups or cloak meta. DKs go light armour+resto and burst now.

Chains can *** right off tbh. Its a clunkier skill that rune prison, has occasional, but better height issues, and makes no sense. 1) Chains to pull you, looks goofy. 2) Expedition AFTER gapclosing. Wowee.

They need snare immunity more than any other class because of the worst mobility in game. Relying on block, which slows itself. Templar, whilst pretty bad at least has purge on top of it. Sorcs streak+lightning form (ehh) NBs, shade+path+concealed, and kind of cloak (Can't really be snared after if nothing can hit you.) wardens have warden wings. And stam as a whole has speed+stam pots.

I still don't understand how major expedition on a gap closer is supposed to help me catch up to/get away from a fight that's all the way across the Battlegrounds arena. Same can be applied to catching up to a fight at a keep. Minor Expedition on a common skill would help tremendously.

I would love major expedition on Toppling Charge

And I wouldn't deny you that, either. This game has evolved to where all the arch-type classes now fulfill all roles. (Play as you want) So, Templars aren't supposed to be restricted to healing. DKs aren't supposed to be restricted to tanking. NBs/Sorcs aren't supposed to be DPS only.

Warden actually shows that you can have mobility, heals, DPS, and Tankiness on a single class. With the next balance update- I hope ZoS affords the other classes the same balance... but everyone still has their own unique skills.

Maulkin

ak_pvp wrote: »

Landing embers isn't much different. A range increase to 8m for both PvE and PvP would be beneficial, that skill is temperamental as hell.

*** yes. So many times you fail to hit a target that is just walking away from you.

I do like chains though, that's where I'll disagree with you. Finding a space for it can be hard because there's so many necessary skills. But as it stands it's good. Undodgeable/Unmissable gap closer, bit of damage, a snare (through Warmth passive), Empower, 6" major expedition. It offers a lot.

I would prefer if the Major Expedition was on Scales instead, so it can also be used defensively, with Chains becoming a root instead. That would synergise better with whip for Chains->Whip->Petrify->Flame Lash combo. But I can't argue that it's not offering a lot as is.

ak_pvp

DDuke wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

I still don't understand how major expedition on a gap closer is supposed to help me catch up to/get away from a fight that's all the way across the Battlegrounds arena. Same can be applied to catching up to a fight at a keep. Minor Expedition on a common skill would help tremendously.

The Major Expedition helps you keep up with anyone. It means a stam build can't just Shuffle->Dodge with speed potions to get out of your whip range in a jiffy and force you to spam Empowering Chains again.

Why on earth would you not want Major Expedition on a class with pretty much exclusively melee damage? That's literally the best buff you can have, whether you're escaping or chasing someone.

Now, barring the Major Expedition the skill has just about as many uses in getting away from a fight as Ambush or Crit Rush, but those situations do exist.

Because its holding the class back. Its not a mobile class, and shouldn't be. Not that it matters when you are snared 70%+ for just existing as a DK. Snare removal should be the only mobility it should have.

Their lockdown should be what keeps enemies near, but it was nerfed. The signature damage ability that takes 3 GCDs to land was made dodgable, so now lash really only lands less than every 7s against mobile targets, talons into lash is almost never. And the second proc from 1 cc has a 1s uptime so is wasted. Never mind if an enemy escapes, I can't even hit them up close.

Chains is awful for escape, snare, low expd uptime, and tied to a gapcloser. And I am pretty sure for however long it exists, DK will remain bottom tier for OW, because people will say, "oh, chains exists, no need to make DK mobile." Its fits so poorly into ZOS's ideal DK build that most DKs don't run it. Even the dw/destro and resto builds. I would swap chains for 15m foss any day.