Asking for help brainstorming a build.

Ragnarock41

Waffennacht wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Is there still any interactions with heavy attack and WB?

If you can get a heavy off almost immediately after WB er Dizzying Swing, that Doyle would be insane

There is no need for that. you can just dodge roll to proc off balance, then land a heavy to proc it.

I've been mulling this over. Seems like a sensible back up plan.

I am leaning towards a combo that involves entering into combat and proccing it then rather than after already being engaged.

I like 2 choices:

Invasion, la, grip, heavy
Or
Stampede, la, grip, heavy/DS thingy depending on interactions.

I like the hard CC being close to an immobilize. CC leads to break and Roots invites roll dodge. We should assume our opponent will so both/either immediately so the combination of both seems necessary, playing both on the time taken to resolve both issues or the confusion of our opponent to successfully land the heavy.

If we rely on the off balance roll dodge we are engaged and risk the opponent countering. While viable like, it wouldn't be something I relied on for my proc alone.

This set is probably best used on a stamDK, since the class has natural tankyness, but very low damage output
But Im comparing this set to red mountain and Im really wondering is it really any better? considering it requires you to charge a full heavy attack on a CC'd enemy.

Overall 2h heavies are just too slow to make this set work, but if I were to use this set I would definitely go for SnB or dual wield, and front bar it. makes no sense to run it on my buff bar to me.

Nihility42

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Run DK for the Molten Weapons boost with major brutality or heavy attack damage or run Stam Sorc for the Bound Armaments increase to heavy attacks.

Pair Doylemesh with Sergeant's Mail. A further increase to heavy attacks.

If you want to double down on heavy attacks, you can also run the Mephala set. Creating poison with your heavy attacks that damages and reduces enemy movement speed. It should help you keep enemies within melee heavy attack range more reliably.

I'd run dual wield on the front bar with a two-hand back bar for this. That way you can have all 3 sets active on your front bar and use your back bar as a buff/healing bar. The dual wield passives will do more to buff your heavy attack damage than the SNB passives would.

And if you make sure to put 75 CP into The Atronach, you will unlock the Butcher passive that deals 5% more heavy and light attack damage to enemies under 25% health. This will allow you to use your heavy attacks as executes more reliably. You are going to want to put a decent amount of CP into Physical Weapons Expert and Master at Arms, so this shouldn't be an issue.

TBH, this is a setup that I have considered running on my stamdk since the DB sets were announced.

Great point on butcher. Love it.

I was planning on snb for the taunt to allow doylemish to occur. I feel stuns out immobilized will not be nearly as reliable. Although i could run inner fire. Dw is an option, I'll have to test the damage, survivability and utility of each.

Ive never tried sergeants mail, i wonder ***'re it would scale with off balance buff.

Dks would lack stackable burst and healing over warden wouldn't you think? I was thinking id need to backbar a 2h for forward momentum. So the brutality would be taken care of of i choose the 40% boost to heavies.

I'm fairly sure the taunt on Doyle does not mean players

Why not? Tremor has the same verbiage and the taunted debuff applies to players too

"When you hit a taunted monster with a fully-charged Heavy Attack or any enemy that is stunned or immobilized with a fully-charged Heavy Attack, you deal an additional 12040 Physical Damage. This effect can occur once every 7 seconds."

Based on the text, only applies to a taunted monster. So whether taunt applies to players is irrelevent.

Waffennacht

All initial testing is that this build is VERY strong

raasdal

I got you covered right here;

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/399703/build-video-stamina-dk-no-cp-bg-s-the-laser-serpent-proc-2-0#latest

https://youtu.be/_aNJg7BkMJM

Waffennacht

@raasdal I'm really enjoying my warden

Plague doctor + Doyle + Zaan
SnB
2H

Reverb, invasion, bone Shield, gripping, Shalk, SnB ult

FM, Netch, Lotus, Artic Blast, Bird o Prey, Permafrost

It's pretty intense.

Major Expedition, heals and dots that scale off of health

This build is crazy strong

raasdal

Waffennacht wrote: »

@raasdal I'm really enjoying my warden

Plague doctor + Doyle + Zaan
SnB
2H

Reverb, invasion, bone Shield, gripping, Shalk, SnB ult

FM, Netch, Lotus, Artic Blast, Bird o Prey, Permafrost

It's pretty intense.

Major Expedition, heals and dots that scale off of health

This build is crazy strong

That does sound insanely broken. Doylemish is perfect fit in there. What is your max health?

Are you able to consistently hit the heavy on your invasion / reverb? The latter would maybe work due to how broken it is - have not tested myself.

Waffennacht

raasdal wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

@raasdal I'm really enjoying my warden

Plague doctor + Doyle + Zaan
SnB
2H

Reverb, invasion, bone Shield, gripping, Shalk, SnB ult

FM, Netch, Lotus, Artic Blast, Bird o Prey, Permafrost

It's pretty intense.

Major Expedition, heals and dots that scale off of health

This build is crazy strong

That does sound insanely broken. Doylemish is perfect fit in there. What is your max health?

Are you able to consistently hit the heavy on your invasion / reverb? The latter would maybe work due to how broken it is - have not tested myself.

Without toughness approximately 41k,

Ugh hit cancel on my edit

Haven't re invested attributes in health

Approximately 21k Stam

Lots O Regen

Typing 1 handed on phone donating plasma lol

Oh Stam resource Poisons cuz evil

Brutusmax1mus

Nihility42 wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Run DK for the Molten Weapons boost with major brutality or heavy attack damage or run Stam Sorc for the Bound Armaments increase to heavy attacks.

Pair Doylemesh with Sergeant's Mail. A further increase to heavy attacks.

If you want to double down on heavy attacks, you can also run the Mephala set. Creating poison with your heavy attacks that damages and reduces enemy movement speed. It should help you keep enemies within melee heavy attack range more reliably.

I'd run dual wield on the front bar with a two-hand back bar for this. That way you can have all 3 sets active on your front bar and use your back bar as a buff/healing bar. The dual wield passives will do more to buff your heavy attack damage than the SNB passives would.

And if you make sure to put 75 CP into The Atronach, you will unlock the Butcher passive that deals 5% more heavy and light attack damage to enemies under 25% health. This will allow you to use your heavy attacks as executes more reliably. You are going to want to put a decent amount of CP into Physical Weapons Expert and Master at Arms, so this shouldn't be an issue.

TBH, this is a setup that I have considered running on my stamdk since the DB sets were announced.

Great point on butcher. Love it.

I was planning on snb for the taunt to allow doylemish to occur. I feel stuns out immobilized will not be nearly as reliable. Although i could run inner fire. Dw is an option, I'll have to test the damage, survivability and utility of each.

Ive never tried sergeants mail, i wonder ***'re it would scale with off balance buff.

Dks would lack stackable burst and healing over warden wouldn't you think? I was thinking id need to backbar a 2h for forward momentum. So the brutality would be taken care of of i choose the 40% boost to heavies.

I'm fairly sure the taunt on Doyle does not mean players

Why not? Tremor has the same verbiage and the taunted debuff applies to players too

"When you hit a taunted monster with a fully-charged Heavy Attack or any enemy that is stunned or immobilized with a fully-charged Heavy Attack, you deal an additional 12040 Physical Damage. This effect can occur once every 7 seconds."

Based on the text, only applies to a taunted monster. So whether taunt applies to players is irrelevent.

But the taunt is still applied to players, whether they attack you or not. Can someone test it with ransack on players for me please? I'm at a wedding this weekend.

Edit: ohhhhh it says monster....... hmm can someone test on a player?

Are you saying offbalance itself creates the condition too proc it?

Datolite

Waffennacht wrote: »

datoliteb16_ESO wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

datoliteb16_ESO wrote: »

You can pair it with knight slayer. You won't have much room for sustain but who cares, you're gonna be getting resources back heavy attacking all the damn time.

Think about it. Infused with oblivion rune for those shield stackers and tanks. Plus a 12k (base) hit every 7 sec.

You'd have to go magicka probably though.

Eh knight slayer is only really good against health tanks. Like 2k DMG over 2 sec is bad. Even 5k is bad.

You want to have your heavy put them irreversibly low or dead.

That's why Zaan, it improvises the lack of sustained pressure, it will also mean GG if Doyle procs under it.

The synergy is huge with immobilize Doyle and Zaan.

I'm thinking if no Dr. Then something like Bone Pirate for stats and sustain.

Where did you get 2K from? It's like 1.7 per enchant, plus weapon damage, plus the Doyle damage.

Put Zaan on top of that and you're golden.

I was referring to Slayer's damage = 10% opponent's health. Typically 20k is the most common, so a heavy attack from Slayer would deal approximately 2k DMG.

The other stats would not make a difference in evaluating Slayer's worth.

I would much rather have a set that either provides additional damage to more already available skills or resources. 10% of an opponent's health isn't a whole lot for what you're giving up.

The draw here is oblivion damage, which goes through shields, and the 10% is only the icing on the cake anyway since you're basing your whole build around heavy hits. They would have a base of around 3k plus that 2k and the occasional 12k.

So add a serious magicka melee skill bar and you have two strong sources of damage. Would be great on a magplar. I ran a slayer build on my magplar and it wasn't half bad in CP. This would have made it deadly.

Waffennacht

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Nihility42 wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Run DK for the Molten Weapons boost with major brutality or heavy attack damage or run Stam Sorc for the Bound Armaments increase to heavy attacks.

Pair Doylemesh with Sergeant's Mail. A further increase to heavy attacks.

If you want to double down on heavy attacks, you can also run the Mephala set. Creating poison with your heavy attacks that damages and reduces enemy movement speed. It should help you keep enemies within melee heavy attack range more reliably.

I'd run dual wield on the front bar with a two-hand back bar for this. That way you can have all 3 sets active on your front bar and use your back bar as a buff/healing bar. The dual wield passives will do more to buff your heavy attack damage than the SNB passives would.

And if you make sure to put 75 CP into The Atronach, you will unlock the Butcher passive that deals 5% more heavy and light attack damage to enemies under 25% health. This will allow you to use your heavy attacks as executes more reliably. You are going to want to put a decent amount of CP into Physical Weapons Expert and Master at Arms, so this shouldn't be an issue.

TBH, this is a setup that I have considered running on my stamdk since the DB sets were announced.

Great point on butcher. Love it.

I was planning on snb for the taunt to allow doylemish to occur. I feel stuns out immobilized will not be nearly as reliable. Although i could run inner fire. Dw is an option, I'll have to test the damage, survivability and utility of each.

Ive never tried sergeants mail, i wonder ***'re it would scale with off balance buff.

Dks would lack stackable burst and healing over warden wouldn't you think? I was thinking id need to backbar a 2h for forward momentum. So the brutality would be taken care of of i choose the 40% boost to heavies.

I'm fairly sure the taunt on Doyle does not mean players

Why not? Tremor has the same verbiage and the taunted debuff applies to players too

"When you hit a taunted monster with a fully-charged Heavy Attack or any enemy that is stunned or immobilized with a fully-charged Heavy Attack, you deal an additional 12040 Physical Damage. This effect can occur once every 7 seconds."

Based on the text, only applies to a taunted monster. So whether taunt applies to players is irrelevent.

But the taunt is still applied to players, whether they attack you or not. Can someone test it with ransack on players for me please? I'm at a wedding this weekend.

Edit: ohhhhh it says monster....... hmm can someone test on a player?

Are you saying offbalance itself creates the condition too proc it?

Remember when you heavy attack someone off balance it knocks them down (a hard CC) which does cause it to proc.

I'm a huge fan of Invasion, LA, Grip, Heavy that's just crazy DMG + Zaan

datoliteb16_ESO wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

datoliteb16_ESO wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

datoliteb16_ESO wrote: »

You can pair it with knight slayer. You won't have much room for sustain but who cares, you're gonna be getting resources back heavy attacking all the damn time.

Think about it. Infused with oblivion rune for those shield stackers and tanks. Plus a 12k (base) hit every 7 sec.

You'd have to go magicka probably though.

Eh knight slayer is only really good against health tanks. Like 2k DMG over 2 sec is bad. Even 5k is bad.

You want to have your heavy put them irreversibly low or dead.

That's why Zaan, it improvises the lack of sustained pressure, it will also mean GG if Doyle procs under it.

The synergy is huge with immobilize Doyle and Zaan.

I'm thinking if no Dr. Then something like Bone Pirate for stats and sustain.

Where did you get 2K from? It's like 1.7 per enchant, plus weapon damage, plus the Doyle damage.

Put Zaan on top of that and you're golden.

I was referring to Slayer's damage = 10% opponent's health. Typically 20k is the most common, so a heavy attack from Slayer would deal approximately 2k DMG.

The other stats would not make a difference in evaluating Slayer's worth.

I would much rather have a set that either provides additional damage to more already available skills or resources. 10% of an opponent's health isn't a whole lot for what you're giving up.

The draw here is oblivion damage, which goes through shields, and the 10% is only the icing on the cake anyway since you're basing your whole build around heavy hits. They would have a base of around 3k plus that 2k and the occasional 12k.

So add a serious magicka melee skill bar and you have two strong sources of damage. Would be great on a magplar. I ran a slayer build on my magplar and it wasn't half bad in CP. This would have made it deadly.

I had a build like this, was great when more health builds were popular. It's just too slow for me. Though mag version could be interesting

I'm telling you gents the Healthden is stupid broken OP.

Can you deal with 50kish health with like 3k hps? With Zaan and gripping and blast (they deal good damage) then the heavy is just omg

Brutusmax1mus

Waffennacht wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Nihility42 wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Run DK for the Molten Weapons boost with major brutality or heavy attack damage or run Stam Sorc for the Bound Armaments increase to heavy attacks.

Pair Doylemesh with Sergeant's Mail. A further increase to heavy attacks.

If you want to double down on heavy attacks, you can also run the Mephala set. Creating poison with your heavy attacks that damages and reduces enemy movement speed. It should help you keep enemies within melee heavy attack range more reliably.

I'd run dual wield on the front bar with a two-hand back bar for this. That way you can have all 3 sets active on your front bar and use your back bar as a buff/healing bar. The dual wield passives will do more to buff your heavy attack damage than the SNB passives would.

And if you make sure to put 75 CP into The Atronach, you will unlock the Butcher passive that deals 5% more heavy and light attack damage to enemies under 25% health. This will allow you to use your heavy attacks as executes more reliably. You are going to want to put a decent amount of CP into Physical Weapons Expert and Master at Arms, so this shouldn't be an issue.

TBH, this is a setup that I have considered running on my stamdk since the DB sets were announced.

Great point on butcher. Love it.

I was planning on snb for the taunt to allow doylemish to occur. I feel stuns out immobilized will not be nearly as reliable. Although i could run inner fire. Dw is an option, I'll have to test the damage, survivability and utility of each.

Ive never tried sergeants mail, i wonder ***'re it would scale with off balance buff.

Dks would lack stackable burst and healing over warden wouldn't you think? I was thinking id need to backbar a 2h for forward momentum. So the brutality would be taken care of of i choose the 40% boost to heavies.

I'm fairly sure the taunt on Doyle does not mean players

Why not? Tremor has the same verbiage and the taunted debuff applies to players too

"When you hit a taunted monster with a fully-charged Heavy Attack or any enemy that is stunned or immobilized with a fully-charged Heavy Attack, you deal an additional 12040 Physical Damage. This effect can occur once every 7 seconds."

Based on the text, only applies to a taunted monster. So whether taunt applies to players is irrelevent.

But the taunt is still applied to players, whether they attack you or not. Can someone test it with ransack on players for me please? I'm at a wedding this weekend.

Edit: ohhhhh it says monster....... hmm can someone test on a player?

Are you saying offbalance itself creates the condition too proc it?

Remember when you heavy attack someone off balance it knocks them down (a hard CC) which does cause it to proc.

I'm a huge fan of Invasion, LA, Grip, Heavy that's just crazy DMG + Zaan

datoliteb16_ESO wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

datoliteb16_ESO wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

datoliteb16_ESO wrote: »

You can pair it with knight slayer. You won't have much room for sustain but who cares, you're gonna be getting resources back heavy attacking all the damn time.

Think about it. Infused with oblivion rune for those shield stackers and tanks. Plus a 12k (base) hit every 7 sec.

You'd have to go magicka probably though.

Eh knight slayer is only really good against health tanks. Like 2k DMG over 2 sec is bad. Even 5k is bad.

You want to have your heavy put them irreversibly low or dead.

That's why Zaan, it improvises the lack of sustained pressure, it will also mean GG if Doyle procs under it.

The synergy is huge with immobilize Doyle and Zaan.

I'm thinking if no Dr. Then something like Bone Pirate for stats and sustain.

Where did you get 2K from? It's like 1.7 per enchant, plus weapon damage, plus the Doyle damage.

Put Zaan on top of that and you're golden.

I was referring to Slayer's damage = 10% opponent's health. Typically 20k is the most common, so a heavy attack from Slayer would deal approximately 2k DMG.

The other stats would not make a difference in evaluating Slayer's worth.

I would much rather have a set that either provides additional damage to more already available skills or resources. 10% of an opponent's health isn't a whole lot for what you're giving up.

The draw here is oblivion damage, which goes through shields, and the 10% is only the icing on the cake anyway since you're basing your whole build around heavy hits. They would have a base of around 3k plus that 2k and the occasional 12k.

So add a serious magicka melee skill bar and you have two strong sources of damage. Would be great on a magplar. I ran a slayer build on my magplar and it wasn't half bad in CP. This would have made it deadly.

I had a build like this, was great when more health builds were popular. It's just too slow for me. Though mag version could be interesting

I'm telling you gents the Healthden is stupid broken OP.

Can you deal with 50kish health with like 3k hps? With Zaan and gripping and blast (they deal good damage) then the heavy is just omg

Waffennacht wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Nihility42 wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Run DK for the Molten Weapons boost with major brutality or heavy attack damage or run Stam Sorc for the Bound Armaments increase to heavy attacks.

Pair Doylemesh with Sergeant's Mail. A further increase to heavy attacks.

If you want to double down on heavy attacks, you can also run the Mephala set. Creating poison with your heavy attacks that damages and reduces enemy movement speed. It should help you keep enemies within melee heavy attack range more reliably.

I'd run dual wield on the front bar with a two-hand back bar for this. That way you can have all 3 sets active on your front bar and use your back bar as a buff/healing bar. The dual wield passives will do more to buff your heavy attack damage than the SNB passives would.

And if you make sure to put 75 CP into The Atronach, you will unlock the Butcher passive that deals 5% more heavy and light attack damage to enemies under 25% health. This will allow you to use your heavy attacks as executes more reliably. You are going to want to put a decent amount of CP into Physical Weapons Expert and Master at Arms, so this shouldn't be an issue.

TBH, this is a setup that I have considered running on my stamdk since the DB sets were announced.

Great point on butcher. Love it.

I was planning on snb for the taunt to allow doylemish to occur. I feel stuns out immobilized will not be nearly as reliable. Although i could run inner fire. Dw is an option, I'll have to test the damage, survivability and utility of each.

Ive never tried sergeants mail, i wonder ***'re it would scale with off balance buff.

Dks would lack stackable burst and healing over warden wouldn't you think? I was thinking id need to backbar a 2h for forward momentum. So the brutality would be taken care of of i choose the 40% boost to heavies.

I'm fairly sure the taunt on Doyle does not mean players

Why not? Tremor has the same verbiage and the taunted debuff applies to players too

"When you hit a taunted monster with a fully-charged Heavy Attack or any enemy that is stunned or immobilized with a fully-charged Heavy Attack, you deal an additional 12040 Physical Damage. This effect can occur once every 7 seconds."

Based on the text, only applies to a taunted monster. So whether taunt applies to players is irrelevent.

But the taunt is still applied to players, whether they attack you or not. Can someone test it with ransack on players for me please? I'm at a wedding this weekend.

Edit: ohhhhh it says monster....... hmm can someone test on a player?

Are you saying offbalance itself creates the condition too proc it?

Remember when you heavy attack someone off balance it knocks them down (a hard CC) which does cause it to proc.

I'm a huge fan of Invasion, LA, Grip, Heavy that's just crazy DMG + Zaan

datoliteb16_ESO wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

datoliteb16_ESO wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

datoliteb16_ESO wrote: »

You can pair it with knight slayer. You won't have much room for sustain but who cares, you're gonna be getting resources back heavy attacking all the damn time.

Think about it. Infused with oblivion rune for those shield stackers and tanks. Plus a 12k (base) hit every 7 sec.

You'd have to go magicka probably though.

Eh knight slayer is only really good against health tanks. Like 2k DMG over 2 sec is bad. Even 5k is bad.

You want to have your heavy put them irreversibly low or dead.

That's why Zaan, it improvises the lack of sustained pressure, it will also mean GG if Doyle procs under it.

The synergy is huge with immobilize Doyle and Zaan.

I'm thinking if no Dr. Then something like Bone Pirate for stats and sustain.

Where did you get 2K from? It's like 1.7 per enchant, plus weapon damage, plus the Doyle damage.

Put Zaan on top of that and you're golden.

I was referring to Slayer's damage = 10% opponent's health. Typically 20k is the most common, so a heavy attack from Slayer would deal approximately 2k DMG.

The other stats would not make a difference in evaluating Slayer's worth.

I would much rather have a set that either provides additional damage to more already available skills or resources. 10% of an opponent's health isn't a whole lot for what you're giving up.

The draw here is oblivion damage, which goes through shields, and the 10% is only the icing on the cake anyway since you're basing your whole build around heavy hits. They would have a base of around 3k plus that 2k and the occasional 12k.

So add a serious magicka melee skill bar and you have two strong sources of damage. Would be great on a magplar. I ran a slayer build on my magplar and it wasn't half bad in CP. This would have made it deadly.

I had a build like this, was great when more health builds were popular. It's just too slow for me. Though mag version could be interesting

I'm telling you gents the Healthden is stupid broken OP.

Can you deal with 50kish health with like 3k hps? With Zaan and gripping and blast (they deal good dama6ge) then the heavy is just omg

You're saying it procs when you heavy attack an offbalance opponent and stun them all at once, or you must do anther heavy after the one that stunned them?? Please be the first iteration. Please.

Brutusmax1mus

My build is currently 552 front bar doylemish, always up tk and impregnable, 4 infused triglyph and 4 welfitted triglyphs. I'm gonna try fury next. What are you wearing @Waffennacht ?

raasdal

Waffennacht wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Nihility42 wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Run DK for the Molten Weapons boost with major brutality or heavy attack damage or run Stam Sorc for the Bound Armaments increase to heavy attacks.

Pair Doylemesh with Sergeant's Mail. A further increase to heavy attacks.

If you want to double down on heavy attacks, you can also run the Mephala set. Creating poison with your heavy attacks that damages and reduces enemy movement speed. It should help you keep enemies within melee heavy attack range more reliably.

I'd run dual wield on the front bar with a two-hand back bar for this. That way you can have all 3 sets active on your front bar and use your back bar as a buff/healing bar. The dual wield passives will do more to buff your heavy attack damage than the SNB passives would.

And if you make sure to put 75 CP into The Atronach, you will unlock the Butcher passive that deals 5% more heavy and light attack damage to enemies under 25% health. This will allow you to use your heavy attacks as executes more reliably. You are going to want to put a decent amount of CP into Physical Weapons Expert and Master at Arms, so this shouldn't be an issue.

TBH, this is a setup that I have considered running on my stamdk since the DB sets were announced.

Great point on butcher. Love it.

I was planning on snb for the taunt to allow doylemish to occur. I feel stuns out immobilized will not be nearly as reliable. Although i could run inner fire. Dw is an option, I'll have to test the damage, survivability and utility of each.

Ive never tried sergeants mail, i wonder ***'re it would scale with off balance buff.

Dks would lack stackable burst and healing over warden wouldn't you think? I was thinking id need to backbar a 2h for forward momentum. So the brutality would be taken care of of i choose the 40% boost to heavies.

I'm fairly sure the taunt on Doyle does not mean players

Why not? Tremor has the same verbiage and the taunted debuff applies to players too

"When you hit a taunted monster with a fully-charged Heavy Attack or any enemy that is stunned or immobilized with a fully-charged Heavy Attack, you deal an additional 12040 Physical Damage. This effect can occur once every 7 seconds."

Based on the text, only applies to a taunted monster. So whether taunt applies to players is irrelevent.

But the taunt is still applied to players, whether they attack you or not. Can someone test it with ransack on players for me please? I'm at a wedding this weekend.

Edit: ohhhhh it says monster....... hmm can someone test on a player?

Are you saying offbalance itself creates the condition too proc it?

Remember when you heavy attack someone off balance it knocks them down (a hard CC) which does cause it to proc.

I'm a huge fan of Invasion, LA, Grip, Heavy that's just crazy DMG + Zaan

datoliteb16_ESO wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

datoliteb16_ESO wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

datoliteb16_ESO wrote: »

You can pair it with knight slayer. You won't have much room for sustain but who cares, you're gonna be getting resources back heavy attacking all the damn time.

Think about it. Infused with oblivion rune for those shield stackers and tanks. Plus a 12k (base) hit every 7 sec.

You'd have to go magicka probably though.

Eh knight slayer is only really good against health tanks. Like 2k DMG over 2 sec is bad. Even 5k is bad.

You want to have your heavy put them irreversibly low or dead.

That's why Zaan, it improvises the lack of sustained pressure, it will also mean GG if Doyle procs under it.

The synergy is huge with immobilize Doyle and Zaan.

I'm thinking if no Dr. Then something like Bone Pirate for stats and sustain.

Where did you get 2K from? It's like 1.7 per enchant, plus weapon damage, plus the Doyle damage.

Put Zaan on top of that and you're golden.

I was referring to Slayer's damage = 10% opponent's health. Typically 20k is the most common, so a heavy attack from Slayer would deal approximately 2k DMG.

The other stats would not make a difference in evaluating Slayer's worth.

I would much rather have a set that either provides additional damage to more already available skills or resources. 10% of an opponent's health isn't a whole lot for what you're giving up.

The draw here is oblivion damage, which goes through shields, and the 10% is only the icing on the cake anyway since you're basing your whole build around heavy hits. They would have a base of around 3k plus that 2k and the occasional 12k.

So add a serious magicka melee skill bar and you have two strong sources of damage. Would be great on a magplar. I ran a slayer build on my magplar and it wasn't half bad in CP. This would have made it deadly.

I had a build like this, was great when more health builds were popular. It's just too slow for me. Though mag version could be interesting

I'm telling you gents the Healthden is stupid broken OP.

Can you deal with 50kish health with like 3k hps? With Zaan and gripping and blast (they deal good damage) then the heavy is just omg

Don't make me grind the Warden. Don't make me grind the Warden. Don't make me grind the Warden.....

Waffennacht

@Brutusmax1mus I'm running plague Dr. Zaan and Doyle.

SnB front
2H back

I'm undecided about going up to 50k health or if 40k is where I wanna stay.

ATM resources aren't a concern, but I need to test different circumstances.

I'll check tool tips today. I had to go to bed before I could test too much.

But it was very impressive. And Artic is a very good NB counter.

I may even want my SnB weapon be charged trying to chill opponents more often.

Lotus, Artic, Bone Shield, Gripping, all scale to health
Zaan gives sustained pressure
Doyle can take out half a person's health single handledly

(Hint: because it adds damage to the heavy,.... I think it can crit....)

O.0

raasdal

Waffennacht wrote: »

@Brutusmax1mus I'm running plague Dr. Zaan and Doyle.

SnB front
2H back

I'm undecided about going up to 50k health or if 40k is where I wanna stay.

ATM resources aren't a concern, but I need to test different circumstances.

I'll check tool tips today. I had to go to bed before I could test too much.

But it was very impressive. And Artic is a very good NB counter.

I may even want my SnB weapon be charged trying to chill opponents more often.

Lotus, Artic, Bone Shield, Gripping, all scale to health
Zaan gives sustained pressure
Doyle can take out half a person's health single handledly

(Hint: because it adds damage to the heavy,.... I think it can crit....)

O.0

Just FYI, Doylemish is a seperate hit, and does not actually add to the heavy, like for example vMSA Destro and other items / mechanics. So unfortunately it cannot crit. Easy to test here on PC

Jsmalls

Immobilize poison on your heavy attack bar? Also gives you CC immunity for 4 seconds. There are a lot of other heavy attack sets though, are you against running the of those in combination?

Brutusmax1mus

Jsmalls wrote: »

Immobilize poison on your heavy attack bar? Also gives you CC immunity for 4 seconds. There are a lot of other heavy attack sets though, are you against running the of those in combination?

No, but im not necessarily only trying to make my heavy attacks hit harder.

Waffennacht

Lack of armor pieces is bugging me ATM. In CP the build is very solid, in No CP I'm having sustain issues (big surprise right?)

But a lot of ideas I have unfortunately can't be tested yet because apparently I have far less chest pieces than I would've thought.

Probably gonna try a mag version for no CP because I have a lot more sets for mag.

I don't wanna farm again so soon lol

raasdal

@Waffennacht

You mention in this thread about off-balance. I know that Heavy Attack on off-balance target Stuns. Have you specifically tested how Doylemish interacts with that? I am curious if the Stun will register like for example Enchants, which are counted before the actual hit. That would make you able to proc Doylemish, since the heavy would be calculated after the stun.

The above would open up really weird combos, like Talons --> Whip --> Heavy (Stun+Doylemish) into Power Lash

Waffennacht

@raasdal I just logged in to ask the same thing. I do not have x5 Doyle armor, nor any jewelry yet, nor a bow (have 4 armor, sword and shield) so I literally found out I can't test it very easily lmfao.

But I was thinking if it did work (which it may - because as you said it's a separate hit - one that requires a check of previous states, meaning the actual heavy would register first, trigger stun, Doyle check, proc) so a gank heavy attack bow build very well may work!

Brutusmax1mus

Waffennacht wrote: »

@raasdal I just logged in to ask the same thing. I do not have x5 Doyle armor, nor any jewelry yet, nor a bow (have 4 armor, sword and shield) so I literally found out I can't test it very easily lmfao.

But I was thinking if it did work (which it may - because as you said it's a separate hit - one that requires a check of previous states, meaning the actual heavy would register first, trigger stun, Doyle check, proc) so a gank heavy attack bow build very well may work!

raasdal wrote: »

@Waffennacht

You mention in this thread about off-balance. I know that Heavy Attack on off-balance target Stuns. Have you specifically tested how Doylemish interacts with that? I am curious if the Stun will register like for example Enchants, which are counted before the actual hit. That would make you able to proc Doylemish, since the heavy would be calculated after the stun.

The above would open up really weird combos, like Talons --> Whip --> Heavy (Stun+Doylemish) into Power Lash

I just got home and have tested it, but for some reason my heavy attacks after i proc off balance aren't stunning. Done it about 20 times, several different characters.

Waffennacht

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

@raasdal I just logged in to ask the same thing. I do not have x5 Doyle armor, nor any jewelry yet, nor a bow (have 4 armor, sword and shield) so I literally found out I can't test it very easily lmfao.

But I was thinking if it did work (which it may - because as you said it's a separate hit - one that requires a check of previous states, meaning the actual heavy would register first, trigger stun, Doyle check, proc) so a gank heavy attack bow build very well may work!

raasdal wrote: »

@Waffennacht

You mention in this thread about off-balance. I know that Heavy Attack on off-balance target Stuns. Have you specifically tested how Doylemish interacts with that? I am curious if the Stun will register like for example Enchants, which are counted before the actual hit. That would make you able to proc Doylemish, since the heavy would be calculated after the stun.

The above would open up really weird combos, like Talons --> Whip --> Heavy (Stun+Doylemish) into Power Lash

I just got home and have tested it, but for some reason my heavy attacks after i proc off balance aren't stunning. Done it about 20 times, several different characters.

Can you test from stealth?

Off- balance may be bugged with all the changes they've been trying. Or it just may be different now.

I appreciate your testing

@Brutusmax1mus

Brutusmax1mus

For some reason i just had to have my wife literally hit me and now it's stunning, wtf. But it did not proc doylemish ill post a video

Brutusmax1mus

YouTube unavailable atm wtf psn.. But no it doesn't proc after the offbalance heavy attack stun

Brutusmax1mus

Waffennacht wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

@raasdal I just logged in to ask the same thing. I do not have x5 Doyle armor, nor any jewelry yet, nor a bow (have 4 armor, sword and shield) so I literally found out I can't test it very easily lmfao.

But I was thinking if it did work (which it may - because as you said it's a separate hit - one that requires a check of previous states, meaning the actual heavy would register first, trigger stun, Doyle check, proc) so a gank heavy attack bow build very well may work!

raasdal wrote: »

@Waffennacht

You mention in this thread about off-balance. I know that Heavy Attack on off-balance target Stuns. Have you specifically tested how Doylemish interacts with that? I am curious if the Stun will register like for example Enchants, which are counted before the actual hit. That would make you able to proc Doylemish, since the heavy would be calculated after the stun.

The above would open up really weird combos, like Talons --> Whip --> Heavy (Stun+Doylemish) into Power Lash

I just got home and have tested it, but for some reason my heavy attacks after i proc off balance aren't stunning. Done it about 20 times, several different characters.

Can you test from stealth?

Off- balance may be bugged with all the changes they've been trying. Or it just may be different now.

I appreciate your testing

@Brutusmax1mus

Sure, specifically a heavy bow?

Brutusmax1mus

I actually don't have 5 body of doylenish, so i could only test snb heavy from stealth. It did not proc it.

Brutusmax1mus

Saved, miss typed

Waffennacht

@Brutusmax1mus thank you very much. That's unfortunate, but why we test!

The last idea I have is if you can get a 2h heavy in after DS. Outside of that I suppose magicka is the last ideas I could come up with. (But meh landing a heavy destro non lightning staff)

Brutusmax1mus

Let me get 5 body pieces so i can test this better. The stun window after 9ffbalance isn't long.

raasdal

Waffennacht wrote: »

@Brutusmax1mus thank you very much. That's unfortunate, but why we test!

The last idea I have is if you can get a 2h heavy in after DS. Outside of that I suppose magicka is the last ideas I could come up with. (But meh landing a heavy destro non lightning staff)

It specifically says it must be Melee Heavy Attack. So procs from Bows, or any Magicka Staff would be broken/bugged.

And thank you @Brutusmax1mus for testing with the off balance hit.

And i am envious of all your Doylemish weapons and shields I need a Doylemish 1H, to try my MagDK with Doylemish+Caluurion