Asking for help brainstorming a build.

Brutusmax1mus

Goal: Make a build based around Doylemish front bar.

The Why: Off balance provides a disgusting increase to heavy attack damage and sustain, allowing me to focus on other areas to create an enemy most haven't dealt with.

The centerpiece: Doylemish
+1206 hp
+1206 hp
+ 129 weapon and spell damage
+ When you hit a taunted monster with a fully-charged Heavy Attack or any enemy that is stunned or immobilized with a fully-charged Heavy Attack, you deal an additional 12040 Physical Damage. This effect can occur once every 7 seconds

Race: Argonian
Armor type: heavy(not farming Doylemish jewelry, f that)

These aspects are what i'd love input on:
Class, spec(mag, stam, or hybrid), 2nd set, monster set, weapon choices, mundus.

My thoughts: argonian SNB/2h warden coupling impregnable armor, triglyphs, trifood and troll king. Using warrior.

I've considered fury as well. I've got a million reasons behind why I'm wanting to do this, feel free to ask. I'm just picking brains to make sure i didn't over look something.

Checkmath

magicka dk
sword and board and lightning staff
zaan as monsterset
sry for the short answer, im in hurry.....^^

Waffennacht

Funny, I was just thinking of that DK build and was brainstorming a warden version with this build.

I was thinking Doyle + I was actually thinking something like Shackle breaker or even... plague doctor

Roll with Dr. Doyle.

Use Zaan helm

Use gap closer + Artic + Gripping + Proc damage

Use warden tankiness to survive.

Like 50k health + insane proc damage

= Kinda stupid OP Actually

Brutusmax1mus

I'm thinking shalks which decrease armor, ransack taunts allowing the condition to occur and increases your armor, dodge roll to proc tactician, offbalance, exploiter.

Heavy attack, ransack weave, enchant procs, shalk, doylemish, db hit. Targets stunned bc you heavy attacked them while offbalance. Bar swap execute weave.

Heavy attacks with green lotus will be constant healing, troll king will proc at about 20k hp!

You only need to stack weapon dmg bc heavy attacks have an awful stamina coefficient. Wpn dmg and health.

Brutusmax1mus

Checkmath wrote: »

magicka dk
sword and board and lightning staff
zaan as monsterset
sry for the short answer, im in hurry.....^^

I was considering a hybrid with a staff and snb. Could go with zaan if the dmg isn't high enough to burst. Why lightning staff? Bc it would be easier to land?

Brutusmax1mus

Also, i could use bone shield.

Checkmath

Lightning staff doesnt miss and has multiple chances to proc zaan

CatchMeTrolling

I'm running a snb front bar setup right now on my warden, if ransack is able to proc it I would use that plus reverb bash. So you could either trigger shalk, heavy attack, ransack, heavy attack ,reverb and that alone could potentially kill someone, plus dawnbreaker. Or remove the first heavy attack if everything doesn't line up quick enough with shalks.

I'm not sure about back bar, depends on playstyle but most likely anything that's going to buff your damage preferably or just go sustain. Personally I'd do damage, I run 1200 regen.

CatchMeTrolling

And by heavy attack, on the first one I mean a half charged animation cancel ransack

Brutusmax1mus

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

I'm running a snb front bar setup right now on my warden, if ransack is able to proc it I would use that plus reverb bash. So you could either trigger shalk, heavy attack, ransack, heavy attack ,reverb and that alone could potentially kill someone, plus dawnbreaker. Or remove the first heavy attack if everything doesn't line up quick enough with shalks.

I'm not sure about back bar, depends on playstyle but most likely anything that's going to buff your damage preferably or just go sustain. Personally I'd do damage, I run 1200 regen.

With offbalance resource return increase on heavy in going with no sustain aspects. I'll have all i need. I was thinking corrupting pollen for a magicka dump and aoe defile, never used it though.

jaws343

Run DK for the Molten Weapons boost with major brutality or heavy attack damage or run Stam Sorc for the Bound Armaments increase to heavy attacks.

Pair Doylemesh with Sergeant's Mail. A further increase to heavy attacks.

If you want to double down on heavy attacks, you can also run the Mephala set. Creating poison with your heavy attacks that damages and reduces enemy movement speed. It should help you keep enemies within melee heavy attack range more reliably.

I'd run dual wield on the front bar with a two-hand back bar for this. That way you can have all 3 sets active on your front bar and use your back bar as a buff/healing bar. The dual wield passives will do more to buff your heavy attack damage than the SNB passives would.

And if you make sure to put 75 CP into The Atronach, you will unlock the Butcher passive that deals 5% more heavy and light attack damage to enemies under 25% health. This will allow you to use your heavy attacks as executes more reliably. You are going to want to put a decent amount of CP into Physical Weapons Expert and Master at Arms, so this shouldn't be an issue.

TBH, this is a setup that I have considered running on my stamdk since the DB sets were announced.

Brutusmax1mus

jaws343 wrote: »

Run DK for the Molten Weapons boost with major brutality or heavy attack damage or run Stam Sorc for the Bound Armaments increase to heavy attacks.

Pair Doylemesh with Sergeant's Mail. A further increase to heavy attacks.

If you want to double down on heavy attacks, you can also run the Mephala set. Creating poison with your heavy attacks that damages and reduces enemy movement speed. It should help you keep enemies within melee heavy attack range more reliably.

I'd run dual wield on the front bar with a two-hand back bar for this. That way you can have all 3 sets active on your front bar and use your back bar as a buff/healing bar. The dual wield passives will do more to buff your heavy attack damage than the SNB passives would.

And if you make sure to put 75 CP into The Atronach, you will unlock the Butcher passive that deals 5% more heavy and light attack damage to enemies under 25% health. This will allow you to use your heavy attacks as executes more reliably. You are going to want to put a decent amount of CP into Physical Weapons Expert and Master at Arms, so this shouldn't be an issue.

TBH, this is a setup that I have considered running on my stamdk since the DB sets were announced.

Great point on butcher. Love it.

I was planning on snb for the taunt to allow doylemish to occur. I feel stuns out immobilized will not be nearly as reliable. Although i could run inner fire. Dw is an option, I'll have to test the damage, survivability and utility of each.

Ive never tried sergeants mail, i wonder ***'re it would scale with off balance buff.

Dks would lack stackable burst and healing over warden wouldn't you think? I was thinking id need to backbar a 2h for forward momentum. So the brutality would be taken care of of i choose the 40% boost to heavies.

Waffennacht

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Run DK for the Molten Weapons boost with major brutality or heavy attack damage or run Stam Sorc for the Bound Armaments increase to heavy attacks.

Pair Doylemesh with Sergeant's Mail. A further increase to heavy attacks.

If you want to double down on heavy attacks, you can also run the Mephala set. Creating poison with your heavy attacks that damages and reduces enemy movement speed. It should help you keep enemies within melee heavy attack range more reliably.

I'd run dual wield on the front bar with a two-hand back bar for this. That way you can have all 3 sets active on your front bar and use your back bar as a buff/healing bar. The dual wield passives will do more to buff your heavy attack damage than the SNB passives would.

And if you make sure to put 75 CP into The Atronach, you will unlock the Butcher passive that deals 5% more heavy and light attack damage to enemies under 25% health. This will allow you to use your heavy attacks as executes more reliably. You are going to want to put a decent amount of CP into Physical Weapons Expert and Master at Arms, so this shouldn't be an issue.

TBH, this is a setup that I have considered running on my stamdk since the DB sets were announced.

Great point on butcher. Love it.

I was planning on snb for the taunt to allow doylemish to occur. I feel stuns out immobilized will not be nearly as reliable. Although i could run inner fire. Dw is an option, I'll have to test the damage, survivability and utility of each.

Ive never tried sergeants mail, i wonder ***'re it would scale with off balance buff.

Dks would lack stackable burst and healing over warden wouldn't you think? I was thinking id need to backbar a 2h for forward momentum. So the brutality would be taken care of of i choose the 40% boost to heavies.

I'm fairly sure the taunt on Doyle does not mean players

jaws343

Waffennacht wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Run DK for the Molten Weapons boost with major brutality or heavy attack damage or run Stam Sorc for the Bound Armaments increase to heavy attacks.

Pair Doylemesh with Sergeant's Mail. A further increase to heavy attacks.

If you want to double down on heavy attacks, you can also run the Mephala set. Creating poison with your heavy attacks that damages and reduces enemy movement speed. It should help you keep enemies within melee heavy attack range more reliably.

I'd run dual wield on the front bar with a two-hand back bar for this. That way you can have all 3 sets active on your front bar and use your back bar as a buff/healing bar. The dual wield passives will do more to buff your heavy attack damage than the SNB passives would.

And if you make sure to put 75 CP into The Atronach, you will unlock the Butcher passive that deals 5% more heavy and light attack damage to enemies under 25% health. This will allow you to use your heavy attacks as executes more reliably. You are going to want to put a decent amount of CP into Physical Weapons Expert and Master at Arms, so this shouldn't be an issue.

TBH, this is a setup that I have considered running on my stamdk since the DB sets were announced.

Great point on butcher. Love it.

I was planning on snb for the taunt to allow doylemish to occur. I feel stuns out immobilized will not be nearly as reliable. Although i could run inner fire. Dw is an option, I'll have to test the damage, survivability and utility of each.

Ive never tried sergeants mail, i wonder ***'re it would scale with off balance buff.

Dks would lack stackable burst and healing over warden wouldn't you think? I was thinking id need to backbar a 2h for forward momentum. So the brutality would be taken care of of i choose the 40% boost to heavies.

I'm fairly sure the taunt on Doyle does not mean players

Yeah, I think the set only works on immobilized/stunned players/enemies and the taunt only works on PVE enemies.

And as far as stackable burst with the DK: Buff up on back bar with Forward momentum and Molten Armaments for the heavy attack damage, and then switch to front bar and drop Deadly Cloak, Rending Slash/Blood Craze, Venomous Claw, Petrify, Heavy attack until dead. That would be your main combo. Use Take Flight on cool down for added burst or as an execute when needed.

And healing on the DK is pretty strong. Forward Momentum, Vigor, Cauterize should provide ample amounts of healing. Personally, I like to use Rally over Forward Momentum due to the burst heal being extremely helpful.

I do think the Warden has a stronger burst and greater healing, but I think the Warden has a harder to land combo and attempting to land a stun using a Warden is difficult. Whereas, Petrify is instant and goes through block. The DK burst is much more reliable imo.

jaws343

You could even run Corrosive armor to ignore all physical resistance. Your heavy attacks are going to do an insane amount of damage while ignoring resistance.

Waffennacht

jaws343 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Run DK for the Molten Weapons boost with major brutality or heavy attack damage or run Stam Sorc for the Bound Armaments increase to heavy attacks.

Pair Doylemesh with Sergeant's Mail. A further increase to heavy attacks.

If you want to double down on heavy attacks, you can also run the Mephala set. Creating poison with your heavy attacks that damages and reduces enemy movement speed. It should help you keep enemies within melee heavy attack range more reliably.

I'd run dual wield on the front bar with a two-hand back bar for this. That way you can have all 3 sets active on your front bar and use your back bar as a buff/healing bar. The dual wield passives will do more to buff your heavy attack damage than the SNB passives would.

And if you make sure to put 75 CP into The Atronach, you will unlock the Butcher passive that deals 5% more heavy and light attack damage to enemies under 25% health. This will allow you to use your heavy attacks as executes more reliably. You are going to want to put a decent amount of CP into Physical Weapons Expert and Master at Arms, so this shouldn't be an issue.

TBH, this is a setup that I have considered running on my stamdk since the DB sets were announced.

Great point on butcher. Love it.

I was planning on snb for the taunt to allow doylemish to occur. I feel stuns out immobilized will not be nearly as reliable. Although i could run inner fire. Dw is an option, I'll have to test the damage, survivability and utility of each.

Ive never tried sergeants mail, i wonder ***'re it would scale with off balance buff.

Dks would lack stackable burst and healing over warden wouldn't you think? I was thinking id need to backbar a 2h for forward momentum. So the brutality would be taken care of of i choose the 40% boost to heavies.

I'm fairly sure the taunt on Doyle does not mean players

Yeah, I think the set only works on immobilized/stunned players/enemies and the taunt only works on PVE enemies.

And as far as stackable burst with the DK: Buff up on back bar with Forward momentum and Molten Armaments for the heavy attack damage, and then switch to front bar and drop Deadly Cloak, Rending Slash/Blood Craze, Venomous Claw, Petrify, Heavy attack until dead. That would be your main combo. Use Take Flight on cool down for added burst or as an execute when needed.

And healing on the DK is pretty strong. Forward Momentum, Vigor, Cauterize should provide ample amounts of healing. Personally, I like to use Rally over Forward Momentum due to the burst heal being extremely helpful.

I do think the Warden has a stronger burst and greater healing, but I think the Warden has a harder to land combo and attempting to land a stun using a Warden is difficult. Whereas, Petrify is instant and goes through block. The DK burst is much more reliable imo.

I was thinking gripping for immobilize, then heavy, I am thinking an immobilize is much more reliable than trying to land a heavy on a stunned opponent (plus if they are stunned for that long they probably would die anyway)

Plus synergy with Zaan + immobilize

Possible use Invasion for I think the longest stun in game?

I dunno how tanky of a build to go for.

More like @Rouder or a more offensive build

Minno

you all are making me want to go back to heavy armor lol.

jaws343

If you do go Warden, you could even run Permafrost for the extra stun chances and the major protection.

Waffennacht

jaws343 wrote: »

If you do go Warden, you could even run Permafrost for the extra stun chances and the major protection.

That's actually more practical.

Hit perma, wind up heavy, perma stunns, heavy connects

Datolite

You can pair it with knight slayer. You won't have much room for sustain but who cares, you're gonna be getting resources back heavy attacking all the damn time.

Think about it. Infused with oblivion rune for those shield stackers and tanks. Plus a 12k (base) hit every 7 sec.

You'd have to go magicka probably though.

Waffennacht

datoliteb16_ESO wrote: »

You can pair it with knight slayer. You won't have much room for sustain but who cares, you're gonna be getting resources back heavy attacking all the damn time.

Think about it. Infused with oblivion rune for those shield stackers and tanks. Plus a 12k (base) hit every 7 sec.

You'd have to go magicka probably though.

Eh knight slayer is only really good against health tanks. Like 2k DMG over 2 sec is bad. Even 5k is bad.

You want to have your heavy put them irreversibly low or dead.

That's why Zaan, it improvises the lack of sustained pressure, it will also mean GG if Doyle procs under it.

The synergy is huge with immobilize Doyle and Zaan.

I'm thinking if no Dr. Then something like Bone Pirate for stats and sustain.

Datolite

Waffennacht wrote: »

datoliteb16_ESO wrote: »

You can pair it with knight slayer. You won't have much room for sustain but who cares, you're gonna be getting resources back heavy attacking all the damn time.

Think about it. Infused with oblivion rune for those shield stackers and tanks. Plus a 12k (base) hit every 7 sec.

You'd have to go magicka probably though.

Eh knight slayer is only really good against health tanks. Like 2k DMG over 2 sec is bad. Even 5k is bad.

You want to have your heavy put them irreversibly low or dead.

That's why Zaan, it improvises the lack of sustained pressure, it will also mean GG if Doyle procs under it.

The synergy is huge with immobilize Doyle and Zaan.

I'm thinking if no Dr. Then something like Bone Pirate for stats and sustain.

Where did you get 2K from? It's like 1.7 per enchant, plus weapon damage, plus the Doyle damage.

Put Zaan on top of that and you're golden.

Brutusmax1mus

Waffennacht wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Run DK for the Molten Weapons boost with major brutality or heavy attack damage or run Stam Sorc for the Bound Armaments increase to heavy attacks.

Pair Doylemesh with Sergeant's Mail. A further increase to heavy attacks.

If you want to double down on heavy attacks, you can also run the Mephala set. Creating poison with your heavy attacks that damages and reduces enemy movement speed. It should help you keep enemies within melee heavy attack range more reliably.

I'd run dual wield on the front bar with a two-hand back bar for this. That way you can have all 3 sets active on your front bar and use your back bar as a buff/healing bar. The dual wield passives will do more to buff your heavy attack damage than the SNB passives would.

And if you make sure to put 75 CP into The Atronach, you will unlock the Butcher passive that deals 5% more heavy and light attack damage to enemies under 25% health. This will allow you to use your heavy attacks as executes more reliably. You are going to want to put a decent amount of CP into Physical Weapons Expert and Master at Arms, so this shouldn't be an issue.

TBH, this is a setup that I have considered running on my stamdk since the DB sets were announced.

Great point on butcher. Love it.

I was planning on snb for the taunt to allow doylemish to occur. I feel stuns out immobilized will not be nearly as reliable. Although i could run inner fire. Dw is an option, I'll have to test the damage, survivability and utility of each.

Ive never tried sergeants mail, i wonder ***'re it would scale with off balance buff.

Dks would lack stackable burst and healing over warden wouldn't you think? I was thinking id need to backbar a 2h for forward momentum. So the brutality would be taken care of of i choose the 40% boost to heavies.

I'm fairly sure the taunt on Doyle does not mean players

Why not? Tremor has the same verbiage and the taunted debuff applies to players too

jaws343

Waffennacht wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

If you do go Warden, you could even run Permafrost for the extra stun chances and the major protection.

That's actually more practical.

Hit perma, wind up heavy, perma stunns, heavy connects

Yeah if I ran this on a Warden, I would actually back bar the shalks and run steel tornado on the front bar. Weaving steel tornado and heavy attacks during a Permafrost ultimate could be devastating. This would allow you to kill 1v1 and provide options for 1vx. Having the ability to kill multiple players at once while outnumbered would be crucial.

Brutusmax1mus

jaws343 wrote: »

You could even run Corrosive armor to ignore all physical resistance. Your heavy attacks are going to do an insane amount of damage while ignoring resistance.

Ohhh niiiice

Brutusmax1mus

Also, vanguard works the same. When you taunt an enemy player, x can happen.

jaws343

datoliteb16_ESO wrote: »

You can pair it with knight slayer. You won't have much room for sustain but who cares, you're gonna be getting resources back heavy attacking all the damn time.

Think about it. Infused with oblivion rune for those shield stackers and tanks. Plus a 12k (base) hit every 7 sec.

You'd have to go magicka probably though.

I ran Knight Slayer and infused Torags Pact with oblivion enchants on a Magblade a while back. It was fun and dealt some damage, but many classes could reflect it right back at me or dodge it fairly easily. It mostly only worked from cloak. But a fire heavy followed up by swallow soul/impale was a two-three shot most of the time. Unfortunately, outside of long range in and out of cloak play, the build wasn't effective once pressured and it did terrible outside of battle grounds.

Waffennacht

datoliteb16_ESO wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

datoliteb16_ESO wrote: »

You can pair it with knight slayer. You won't have much room for sustain but who cares, you're gonna be getting resources back heavy attacking all the damn time.

Think about it. Infused with oblivion rune for those shield stackers and tanks. Plus a 12k (base) hit every 7 sec.

You'd have to go magicka probably though.

Eh knight slayer is only really good against health tanks. Like 2k DMG over 2 sec is bad. Even 5k is bad.

You want to have your heavy put them irreversibly low or dead.

That's why Zaan, it improvises the lack of sustained pressure, it will also mean GG if Doyle procs under it.

The synergy is huge with immobilize Doyle and Zaan.

I'm thinking if no Dr. Then something like Bone Pirate for stats and sustain.

Where did you get 2K from? It's like 1.7 per enchant, plus weapon damage, plus the Doyle damage.

Put Zaan on top of that and you're golden.

I was referring to Slayer's damage = 10% opponent's health. Typically 20k is the most common, so a heavy attack from Slayer would deal approximately 2k DMG.

The other stats would not make a difference in evaluating Slayer's worth.

I would much rather have a set that either provides additional damage to more already available skills or resources. 10% of an opponent's health isn't a whole lot for what you're giving up.

Waffennacht

Is there still any interactions with heavy attack and WB?

If you can get a heavy off almost immediately after WB er Dizzying Swing, that Doyle would be insane

Ragnarock41

Waffennacht wrote: »

Is there still any interactions with heavy attack and WB?

If you can get a heavy off almost immediately after WB er Dizzying Swing, that Doyle would be insane

There is no need for that. you can just dodge roll to proc off balance, then land a heavy to proc it.

Waffennacht

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Is there still any interactions with heavy attack and WB?

If you can get a heavy off almost immediately after WB er Dizzying Swing, that Doyle would be insane

There is no need for that. you can just dodge roll to proc off balance, then land a heavy to proc it.

I've been mulling this over. Seems like a sensible back up plan.

I am leaning towards a combo that involves entering into combat and proccing it then rather than after already being engaged.

I like 2 choices:

Invasion, la, grip, heavy
Or
Stampede, la, grip, heavy/DS thingy depending on interactions.

I like the hard CC being close to an immobilize. CC leads to break and Roots invites roll dodge. We should assume our opponent will so both/either immediately so the combination of both seems necessary, playing both on the time taken to resolve both issues or the confusion of our opponent to successfully land the heavy.

If we rely on the off balance roll dodge we are engaged and risk the opponent countering. While viable like, it wouldn't be something I relied on for my proc alone.