Is stamDK (still) viable in a no-cp campaign

Pijng

Hello there.
I've heard rumours (or not) that stamDK is good in a cp campaign, but is bad in a no-cp one. I just dont have any idea about dks at all, so I wanted to ask you about their current situation.

Let me make some pattern:
1) Are dks viable in a no-cp? If no – why?
2) What playstyle should dk follow?
3) What are the best setups?

Much appreciated.

raasdal

Sure, they are still viable. Just not if you want to follow the 2H Dizzy style, which Wardens do sooo much better at.

My StamDK uses;

Troll King
Affliction
Serpent

raasdal

Should add that Doylemish is perfect for DK’s since they have the longest combined CC in the game (Fossilize). When i get the time, i will change my DK to Doylemish+Viper or Serpent + Troll.

So DK is certainly viable, but you need to work with their strengths, and not just put on Legion/Fury and think you can Dizzh Swing to victory.

Thogard

DK is viable, sure.

Kind of like how the Cleveland Browns are viable

Thraben

Pijng wrote: »

Hello there.
I've heard rumours (or not) that stamDK is good in a cp campaign, but is bad in a no-cp one. I just dont have any idea about dks at all, so I wanted to ask you about their current situation.

Let me make some pattern:
1) Are dks viable in a no-cp? If no – why?
2) What playstyle should dk follow?
3) What are the best setups?

Much appreciated.

Let´s be honest:

1) StamDK are solo very difficult to play successfully,
2) and if so, their playstyle revolves around blocking and running around rocks and trees until you see an inexperienced player who happens to be killable.

And in groups they provide the enemy group with the opportunity to fight "outnumbered" without actually being in danger.

In short: better wait for the next Summerset Chapter before you try it, because the class needs a complete rebalance.

Pijng

Thraben wrote: »

Pijng wrote: »

Hello there.
I've heard rumours (or not) that stamDK is good in a cp campaign, but is bad in a no-cp one. I just dont have any idea about dks at all, so I wanted to ask you about their current situation.

Let me make some pattern:
1) Are dks viable in a no-cp? If no – why?
2) What playstyle should dk follow?
3) What are the best setups?

Much appreciated.

Let´s be honest:

1) StamDK are solo very difficult to play successfully,
2) and if so, their playstyle revolves around blocking and running around rocks and trees until you see an inexperienced player who happens to be killable.

And in groups they provide the enemy group with the opportunity to fight "outnumbered" without actually being in danger.

In short: better wait for the next Summerset Chapter before you try it, because the class needs a complete rebalance.

Uh, that sounds sad

ChildOfLight

MagDks mains trying to switch the thread in "BUFF MAGDK, WE NEED IT" in 3...2...1

Leandor

ChildOfLight wrote: »

MagDks mains trying to switch the thread in "BUFF MAGDK, WE NEED IT" in 3...2...1

#NerfSorcs #NerfMiat #NerfNB #BuffMDK

Ragnarock41

Would you consider the worst pvp class in the game good for anything?

Anyways, I would explain it detailed but you can just make one and see for yourself. StamDK was nerfed because it was able to blockcast very efficiently in CP, and people complained A LOT about it. And the class was nerfed with CP in mind, you have to use expedition pots 7/24 and have to play as a BiS argonian to even have a chance in no-cp. And blockcasting in there? thats just daydreaming.

don't believe literally the last 3 people who claim its good on the forums, you will just waste your time by playing it. ( one thing it will make you good at is using LOS tho, you can't survive without non-stop tree-rock hugging, so good stamDks are usually masters of resourse management, LOS and perfect timing for burst.)

As an all time stamDK main, I am sad to inform you that this class is a mere shadow of its old might, and It's a complete waste of your potential skill to play one, unless all you know is holding block and using group synergy sets like fasalla/durok.

Then just make one and type +LFG in zone chat. For that task it doesn't matter what you play as anyways, any class can wear durok and run around mindlessly.

You're welcome.

PS: Forgot to mention before there is some ignorance going on here.

The fury+seventh legion build is still very strong and is able to reach crazy numbers like 6k weapon damage, with the help of berserker enchant. Only problem is that the ramp up time is too long for sotha sil. So if you think you are a good player , you can try this setup.

It has a bit low max stamina which you can balance out with max stam/hp or stam/stam regen food, and since battle roar/ helping hands doesnt scale with stats anymore, it makes a lot more sense to stack max weapon damage instead of max stamina.

Pijng

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Would you consider the worst pvp class in the game good for anything?

Anyways, I would explain it detailed but you can just make one and see for yourself. StamDK was nerfed because it was able to blockcast very efficiently in CP, and people complained A LOT about it. And the class was nerfed with CP in mind, you have to use expedition pots 7/24 and have to play as a BiS argonian to even have a chance in no-cp. And blockcasting in there? thats just daydreaming.

don't believe literally the last 3 people who claim its good on the forums, you will just waste your time by playing it. ( one thing it will make you good at is using LOS tho, you can't survive without non-stop tree-rock hugging, so good stamDks are usually masters of resourse management, LOS and perfect timing for burst.)

As an all time stamDK main, I am sad to inform you that this class is a mere shadow of its old might, and It's a complete waste of your potential skill to play one, unless all you know is holding block and using group synergy sets like fasalla/durok.

Then just make one and type +LFG in zone chat. For that task it doesn't matter what you play as anyways, any class can wear durok and run around mindlessly.

You're welcome.

Thanks for detailed reply.
Well, uhm. I'm a lil bit upset now
Mb it would be better to lvlup magdk for now and, if things goes well (in future updates) – just reroll it to stam one?

Ragnarock41

Pijng wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Would you consider the worst pvp class in the game good for anything?

Anyways, I would explain it detailed but you can just make one and see for yourself. StamDK was nerfed because it was able to blockcast very efficiently in CP, and people complained A LOT about it. And the class was nerfed with CP in mind, you have to use expedition pots 7/24 and have to play as a BiS argonian to even have a chance in no-cp. And blockcasting in there? thats just daydreaming.

don't believe literally the last 3 people who claim its good on the forums, you will just waste your time by playing it. ( one thing it will make you good at is using LOS tho, you can't survive without non-stop tree-rock hugging, so good stamDks are usually masters of resourse management, LOS and perfect timing for burst.)

As an all time stamDK main, I am sad to inform you that this class is a mere shadow of its old might, and It's a complete waste of your potential skill to play one, unless all you know is holding block and using group synergy sets like fasalla/durok.

Then just make one and type +LFG in zone chat. For that task it doesn't matter what you play as anyways, any class can wear durok and run around mindlessly.

You're welcome.

Thanks for detailed reply.
Well, uhm. I'm a lil bit upset now
Mb it would be better to lvlup magdk for now and, if things goes well (in future updates) – just reroll it to stam one?

You should definitely try magDK with zaan while its still not nerfed

But If you wanna have some real fun, then make a pyromancer mDk, preferably a dunmer with a staff/staff build and leave third degree burn marks on the faces of pugs you slaughter. But be warned solo mDk is also very hard to pull off. You have very low mobility as a dk and even worse on a mdk. Use the chains morph that pulls you to the enemy.

If you still decided and said ''screw it, Im gonna play a stamDK anyways'', then redguard is your best friend , pick it over any other race.

SpiderCultist

I've tried to play my mDK as a "pyromancer" (destro/resto) many times in cyrodiil and I always come back to SnB. They are fun and good on paper but the reality is you will run out of resources really quick and an easy target due to your squishiness. mDKs are also in a bad spot for playing solo (for both builds).

As for sDK I am still running the 7th / werewolf hide combo and got to say: reroll a stamwarden; same gear, better performance.

ChildOfLight

ChildOfLight wrote: »

MagDks mains trying to switch the thread in "BUFF MAGDK, WE NEED IT" in 3...2...1

SpiderCultist wrote: »

[..] mDKs are also in a bad spot for playing solo (for both builds).

I knew it.

Every time some thread/post point out that sDK is the worst class in pvp, there is always someone trying to switch the topic on magDK indirectly asking for some love.

NO. MagDK is more than fine as class.
You have a tremendeous choice in terms of builds and everything works fine since it's still one of the best duel class and even in outnumbered situation it works fine!
I would ask for some nerfs eventually if you need to talk about that.

OP, If you want to mainly pvp, don't make a stamDk. The description in the Character Creation screen is just misleading. If you give a sword and a shield to a Nightblade, it works still better than the DK as stamina bruiser.


EDIT: If you want to play the stamDK in spite of everything, I can't just not suggest the great @Thogard guide.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/383734/build-vid-stam-bg-small-scale-pvp-build-the-narcissist-cwc-rdy/p1

SpiderCultist

Nah, I've offered honest advice to OP, he can take it or not. And I agree with you @ChildOfLight sDKs are garbage compared to other stamina classes.

Ragnarock41

SpiderCultist wrote: »

I've tried to play my mDK as a "pyromancer" (destro/resto) many times in cyrodiil and I always come back to SnB. They are fun and good on paper but the reality is you will run out of resources really quick and an easy target due to your squishiness. mDKs are also in a bad spot for playing solo (for both builds).

As for sDK I am still running the 7th / werewolf hide combo and got to say: reroll a stamwarden; same gear, better performance.

Its a non meta build that is actually pretty strong. Ive seen it work dozens of times.
But obviously SnB is besy way of playing dk cus blockcasting.

Tho as a stamDk I find dual wield or bow based builds very weak on my Dk.

Pijng

@ChildOfLight Much thanks for the link, I'll check this out.
All I do is pvp. Pve only for sets farm or when i'm tired – I just go to some vTrials and that's all.

Anyway I'll take all responses from you guys, just to see more detailed range of thoughts about sDK.

Ariades_swe

Stam dks gone downhill since the patches following 1T.
They used to be fearsome before the nerfs happened.
I havent been killed by a stamdk in a legit 1v1 in months.

Ragnarock41

Ariades_swe wrote: »

Stam dks gone downhill since the patches following 1T.
They used to be fearsome before the nerfs happened.
I havent been killed by a stamdk in a legit 1v1 in months.

1T was really fun... I miss it. We almost had a perfect game.

Skoomah

Stam DKs are viable but the margin for error is low. You have to have min max skills, gear, etc.

You can wreck with Stam DK but you have to work real hard for the kills vs before the nerfs since morrowind.

Whatever you go with, try your best to max out along the following dimensions: DPS, Heal, Tank, Sustain, Mobility

With this in mind, the best practice is through dueling. Test and adjust your build against each class until you are competitive against all classes. Set the goal at being competitive not overpowered. There are 10 classes total, magicka and stamina versions of each. DK, Templar, Warden, Nightblade, Sorc.

DK - Out tank and sustain them
Templar - Out heal them
Warden - Out burst dps them
Nightblade - Survive burst and detect them
Sorc - Out burst dps and snare them

Make sure to practice both your damage combo rotation and your defensive/heals/line of sight combo rotation.

Once you got these foundational check points down pat, then think about how you can switch to different load outs based on the situation: Cyrodiil open world, small group, raids, Battleground and different game modes, Duels.

Dressing Room add on helps you switch gear and skill bars with one click of a button.

Ocelot9x

Currently Stam dk the worst class to PvP with (at least with stamina sorc you have better mobility + sustain+ lucky burst with implosion + op negate for group play).
And that's why I'm still playing him: every meta surfer switched to stamward to get carried by zos balancing team,and I like to be the underdog.
My dragon bones build is

5 medium tavas,

jewelry (2 robust 1 health,2 weapon DMG glyphs +1 recovery)+ sword and shield Truth(sword infused with WD glyph)

Bloodspawn/trollking

Maelstrom 2h axe/asylum

Double dot posions

Speed/immovable/stam potions

I'm having fun with all the ultimate regen+the off balance from tactician and the damage from exploiter truth (but still outclassed by my other toons)

ak_pvp

Pretty much as mentioned. StamDK was the overall worst class since morrowind. It had some OW niches by way of 7th legion and permablock synergising well. But now, absolutely nothing.

Draxys

Stam DK is about as viable as using a kitchen knife to fell a tree. It’ll work on small weak trees, and I guess it’ll work on a big one if you like torturing yourself, but other things are just much better atm

Pijng

After some really complicated mind work I made the decision – just to create a stamden (pls do not throw those potatoes tomatoes at me)

I found such a build – http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=30284

Looks nice, but mb there are some better setups at the current moment and...oh gosh I just dont like that dizzy at all, is this skill really necessary?
Also, I'll make a stamdk anyway, but later.

UPD: since the build I mentioned in the above is based on the heavy armor – would it be better to swap rally for forward momentum? Cause I cant see any snare removals. And I'm a lil bit curious about Healing Thicket – what about s&b ult instead of it?
Thanks.

Thogard

ChildOfLight wrote: »

ChildOfLight wrote: »

MagDks mains trying to switch the thread in "BUFF MAGDK, WE NEED IT" in 3...2...1

SpiderCultist wrote: »

[..] mDKs are also in a bad spot for playing solo (for both builds).

I knew it.

Every time some thread/post point out that sDK is the worst class in pvp, there is always someone trying to switch the topic on magDK indirectly asking for some love.

NO. MagDK is more than fine as class.
You have a tremendeous choice in terms of builds and everything works fine since it's still one of the best duel class and even in outnumbered situation it works fine!
I would ask for some nerfs eventually if you need to talk about that.

OP, If you want to mainly pvp, don't make a stamDk. The description in the Character Creation screen is just misleading. If you give a sword and a shield to a Nightblade, it works still better than the DK as stamina bruiser.


EDIT: If you want to play the stamDK in spite of everything, I can't just not suggest the great @Thogard guide.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/383734/build-vid-stam-bg-small-scale-pvp-build-the-narcissist-cwc-rdy/p1

Thank you for the shout out! I still stand by that build. It requires 0 updates to be successful in the new patch. For no Cp, perhaps drop a wep dmg glyph and add a Stam Regen glyph, as needed.

TheMystid

I pretty much given up playing anything "meta" on my stamDk, since it makes little sense to play meta on an outdated class.

I've had some fun and (occasional) success against top tier players running a full DoT build with BS/fortified brass/agility and 2h vma sharp axe (with heal reduction or drain stamina poison in no cp) and vma axe+dagger (sharpned&infused + disease).
The build revolves around empowering Rend (dual wield ulti) with cruel flurry, and go full aggressive during the 16sec HoT (which ticks for ~4.5k) by also empowering claw and blood craze, and using Shattering rocks everytime cruel flurry procs to be sure they dont dodge the DoT and get the off balance...


Its a hard build to pull off and I wouldnt recommend it, but dueling wise the pressure it applies is incredibly high; 1 vx x wise the vMA dual wield has always been clunky and unreliable, yet a good Rend can make you unkillable for 16 sec.

And... no chance against templars/purge.

raasdal

I'll get back to you with my Doylemish build once it is completely finished, for those wanting something broken AF to play as StamDK

Pijng

raasdal wrote: »

I'll get back to you with my Doylemish build once it is completely finished, for those wanting something broken AF to play as StamDK

Hah, well, that would be great, cant wait to see completed build.

Qbiken

raasdal wrote: »

I'll get back to you with my Doylemish build once it is completely finished, for those wanting something broken AF to play as StamDK

Doylemish such a nice set (DK+Werewolf) Pre.buff with MA before going into WW-form and RIP

Hutch679

I mean you could drive a forklift to work I guess, but a car gets the job done better. Personally I'd rather drive the car.

leandro.800ub17_ESO

raasdal wrote: »

I'll get back to you with my Doylemish build once it is completely finished, for those wanting something broken AF to play as StamDK

I still dont know it proc works on players or not given the tool tip.
Can you taunt a player and then full heavy atack to proc it?

Jjitsuboy98

TheMystid wrote: »

I pretty much given up playing anything "meta" on my stamDk, since it makes little sense to play meta on an outdated class.

I've had some fun and (occasional) success against top tier players running a full DoT build with BS/fortified brass/agility and 2h vma sharp axe (with heal reduction or drain stamina poison in no cp) and vma axe+dagger (sharpned&infused + disease).
The build revolves around empowering Rend (dual wield ulti) with cruel flurry, and go full aggressive during the 16sec HoT (which ticks for ~4.5k) by also empowering claw and blood craze, and using Shattering rocks everytime cruel flurry procs to be sure they dont dodge the DoT and get the off balance...


Its a hard build to pull off and I wouldnt recommend it, but dueling wise the pressure it applies is incredibly high; 1 vx x wise the vMA dual wield has always been clunky and unreliable, yet a good Rend can make you unkillable for 16 sec.

And... no chance against templars/purge.

Try running with duroks and a bunch of points into befoul. Doesn't take long to get guys into execute range. Rend is powerful for sure. I find the only builds that give some fight in a duel are anyone with a decent shield that plays it well.