cloak doesn't work while targeting NPCs again

Mystrius_Archaion

If you have "prevent attacking innocents" enabled, cloak doesn't activate.

Why is this bug back??!!
How was this EVER considered an attack?! That's the reason it can't be used while targeting innocents. The game treats it as an enemy targeted attack, and not a self buff like it should be.

I'm sick of these repeat bugs. FIX IT!

Mystrius_Archaion

This is still an issue.
It says "cannot attack this target because prevent attacking innocents is on", but cloak doesn't do anything to any target. It's a self buff so shouldn't even check for a target.

Jerkling

works as intended as cloak is concidered an attack since it stuns the "target(s)".

Mystrius_Archaion

Jerkling wrote: »

works as intended as cloak is concidered an attack since it stuns the "target(s)".

NO!
You said that before and you're wrong as hell!

Your light attack from stealth/invisibility will stun an enemy.
Cloak, by itself, doesn't even aggro anything because it does absolutely nothing to the enemy until you press something else.

I have never been able to spam cloak and watch anything get stunned, ever.
Don't attack, just spam cloak. Does it stun? NO!

You have no idea how it works so don't post.

Jerkling

first of all, i have never talked about cloak with you before. and second, if you have never seen cloak by itself stun NPCs you've probably never used cloak, so don't tell me i have no idea how it works. get your facts straight and get off your high horse, you condescending dope.

edit:
you can even see the stun debuff on that NPCs healthbar

Sharee

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Jerkling wrote: »

works as intended as cloak is concidered an attack since it stuns the "target(s)".

NO!
You said that before and you're wrong as hell!

Your light attack from stealth/invisibility will stun an enemy.
Cloak, by itself, doesn't even aggro anything because it does absolutely nothing to the enemy until you press something else.

I have never been able to spam cloak and watch anything get stunned, ever.
Don't attack, just spam cloak. Does it stun? NO!

You have no idea how it works so don't post.

Cloak does not aggro a mob, but once a mob is aggroed, cloak *does* stun it. As such, the ability counts as a stun against a mob, and thus triggers the "prevent attacking innocents" protection.

Mystrius_Archaion

Jerkling wrote: »

first of all, i have never talked about cloak with you before. and second, if you have never seen cloak by itself stun NPCs you've probably never used cloak, so don't tell me i have no idea how it works. get your facts straight and get off your high horse, you condescending dope.

edit:
you can even see the stun debuff on that NPCs healthbar

After you aggro them maybe to drop aggro, if at all. That's just a lazy developer crutch to get it to stop enemies from attacking rather than completely dropping aggro which it should drop threat at least if they coded properly.

It still used to work, because they fixed it temporarily, so that we could trigger it when facing an ally npc or justice neutral npc with "prevent attacking innocents" enabled.

I just want that damn fix back!

Mystrius_Archaion

Sharee wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Jerkling wrote: »

works as intended as cloak is concidered an attack since it stuns the "target(s)".

NO!
You said that before and you're wrong as hell!

Your light attack from stealth/invisibility will stun an enemy.
Cloak, by itself, doesn't even aggro anything because it does absolutely nothing to the enemy until you press something else.

I have never been able to spam cloak and watch anything get stunned, ever.
Don't attack, just spam cloak. Does it stun? NO!

You have no idea how it works so don't post.

Cloak does not aggro a mob, but once a mob is aggroed, cloak *does* stun it. As such, the ability counts as a stun against a mob, and thus triggers the "prevent attacking innocents" protection.

lazy developer workaround...

AND, they had it fixed once before so that it could be used while facing NPCs with that setting enabled. It should be fixed again the exact same way.
Another old bug that they keep bringing back...

idk

Jerkling wrote: »

works as intended as cloak is concidered an attack since it stuns the "target(s)".

@Jerkling

How does cloak stun the target?

It does not interact with any target by any manner or means. You can walk right past and next to targets and they do not know you are there.

Jerkling

i think it's pretty obvious how it works, use your god given common sense for just a moment and it should become clear to you.

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

After you aggro them maybe to drop aggro, if at all. That's just a lazy developer crutch to get it to stop enemies from attacking rather than completely dropping aggro which it should drop threat at least if they coded properly.

It still used to work, because they fixed it temporarily, so that we could trigger it when facing an ally npc or justice neutral npc with "prevent attacking innocents" enabled.

I just want that damn fix back!

"if at all", lol. it has to work like this, exactly like this, every time, all the time, because that's just what cloaking/invisibility does. what else would you have NPCs do? they still know you are around so why would they drop aggro (even though i'd also rather have them drop aggro completely to be honest, especially if you're sneaking as well)? so it's not a lazy crutch, it makes sense this way.

and i never have experienced cloak not working like that, so i have no idea what temporary fix you are talking about. but whatever.

point is, cloak obviously interacts with "targets", even if they are not hostile/aggroed yet, so it triggers the <prevent attacking innocents> parameter.

Excaltic

I can confirm this bug, extremely annoying... typical that this is STILL not fixed...

Not working as intended, unless the dev's intend to have buggy gameplay or skills.

Mystrius_Archaion

Jerkling wrote: »

i think it's pretty obvious how it works, use your god given common sense for just a moment and it should become clear to you.

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

After you aggro them maybe to drop aggro, if at all. That's just a lazy developer crutch to get it to stop enemies from attacking rather than completely dropping aggro which it should drop threat at least if they coded properly.

It still used to work, because they fixed it temporarily, so that we could trigger it when facing an ally npc or justice neutral npc with "prevent attacking innocents" enabled.

I just want that damn fix back!

"if at all", lol. it has to work like this, exactly like this, every time, all the time, because that's just what cloaking/invisibility does. what else would you have NPCs do? they still know you are around so why would they drop aggro (even though i'd also rather have them drop aggro completely to be honest, especially if you're sneaking as well)? so it's not a lazy crutch, it makes sense this way.

Is this the first game you have ever played with an invisibility power?

I've played games more than a decade older than this one that did it correctly and better. This is an old mechanic and this entire game is based on old mechanics and old code. They just didn't copy paste like they should have.

City of Heroes launched in 2004 with perfect invisibility powers that caused enemies to not notice players until aggroed and then to lose aggro when invisibility was applied again(when allowed because things prevented it just like this game). That was 10 years before this game even launched, same time as World of Warcraft which has similar abilities.

This is the first game I have ever played that has a player invisibility buff that can't be triggered when facing a neutral/non-hostile NPC But, this game even had it right for a time as they can and did code to avoid this problem but brought the same problem back!

1) Obviously, they have code that determines threat level of a target so that taunting works and healing draws aggro when not damaging an enemy and so that the highest damage draws the most aggro so they can set an aggro number that could even be ZERO to stop aggro.

2) Obviously, the NPCs don't turn hostile if you disable "prevent attacking innocents" and don't attack them. You can still walk by them without even being noticed. So, there is a toggle "aggressive or passive" flag that this skill could toggle to stop attacks.

3) Given the above, they could code Cloak to either drop threat number, even with code to add back the same number when it expires, to stop attacks or to toggle the passive/aggressive toggle flag to stop attacks, or they could just code Cloak to check the enemy status "passive/aggressive" before checking if "target is protected/not protected" so that we could use this while looking at an NPC

Yes, the coded in enemy stun, which doesn't really stun as they can still move and attack other players, is just a developer's lazy crutch to use to simulate other code that would work better and more reliable in every situation and actually be intuitive to the players for a self buff which doesn't say anything about affecting enemies in the tooltip.



The whole reason why this is an issue is the fact that invisibility is very helpful in cities when trying to avoid guards, but not if it isn't working for some dumb invisible reason.
You would only ever know it stuns anything if you toggle on seeing enemy status effects(which I don't to keep a clean view and which is default disabled) and, even if you knew that, you still would not normally think a neutral NPC is still considered an enemy when they are not red highlighted already attacking or ready to attack.
This is not intuitive and it doesn't work as it should.

Jerkling

why are you trying to explain to me how they could make this skill work differently or how skills like this work/worked in other games? i don't particularly care actually.
that aggroed NPC don't drop aggro on cloak makes perfect sense and that the skill won't work on neutral NPCs when prevent attacking innocents is checked is, granted, annoying but that's just how it is, so it's not actually a bug. i'm using cloak on my main all the time and to my knowledge it never worked any different than it does right now.

could ZOS improve upon this skill? no doubt! is the skill bugged? i don't think so.