What do you think about animation cancelling as a means to increase DPS?

Enslaved

Romo wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

Animation canceling is one of few things that separate truly skilled players from the rest.

Many folks state this/ or the git gud bs. Not to pick on you but to all of that group:

It is not skill/ or "gud" play... most of it is ping related, bad ping and the use of this is next to impossible.

With good ping of course you become "elite" in the use of this "skill".

Yeah, ping plays a significant role, but folk with solid ping that use AC cant be called bs. They spent time to pull maximum from ESO mechanics and it shows. They are skilled.

LadyNalcarya

KingYogi415 wrote: »

Clicking light attack before casting a skill will add around 3-4K dps.

People need to stop acting like not being able to weave or ani-cancle is why they pull 15k dps instead of 40k.

This.
The reason why some people cant do more than 15k is simply because they cant keep up their dots and buffs, and thats about it. It has nothing to do with animation cancelling or anything.

zyk

I suggest people who are interested in learning more about animation cancelling to read this thread because it has some ZOS POV from Gina and Rich Lambert. I think many of the changes in this thread did not go live -- I do not clearly recall -- but it's interesting nonetheless.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/245038/official-feedback-thread-for-prioritization-of-combat-animations/p1

ESO has a system that prioritizes animations for the purpose of maintaining smooth combat. Most games have some kind of function like this, especially fighting games.

Early in ESO's life, players learned how to best use the animation priority system and called it animation cancelling as it is referred to in other games.

So yes, it is intended. I believe what ZOS meant to express was that they didn't intend for players to intentionally use the system optimally to improve performance and expose ways in which it could be OP.

It has been adjusted several times over the course of ESO's life so it's not as beneficial as it used to be. Now, it's mostly about weaves and swap cancels. If you do just those two things, you're probably getting 95% of the benefits from the system.

I don't want to sound like I am defending the system. I don't love the implementation in ESO. But there seems to be a lot of misunderstanding about what it actually does.

greylox

Animation cancelling is fine, I remember in AoC on my assassin cancelling so much i'd have huge bursts of damage in one and I liked pressing skills as quick as possible mainly as a personal challenge after I realised you could shorten casts. I didn't know it was called animation cancelling but I'm sure a lot of people do it without realising.

Sticking to a rotation is more important than being able to animation cancel anyway.

Runefang

It's 100% fine, we should use all the tools the game has made available to us.

You can avoid weaving or animation cancelling all you want and claim your moral superiority at the same time too, just don't do vet content with me please.

Sosderosii

I don't like the idea of animation cancelling because I want the game too look smooth.
Could be replaced with a more advanced tactical decision making and timing so experienced players have something in replacement.

Runefang

Every game gives you a toolkit and says "Here's what you have to beat, go for it". Using all of the toolkit or not is up to you but there's no 'righteous' way. Nobody is killing a puppy every time you bar swap cancel.

This argument is like all the others like Skyreach grinding, ganking, PvDoor for AP, shield stacking etc. Play the game your way, but don't expect it to be the best way unless you take full advantage of what the game gives you.

MehrunesFlagon

Maelstrom Staff was designed around it.

dsalter

it lets me be a seizure educed mage and not by choice else i cant compete with higher end people.
i hate having to have them to be able to compete with end game damage setup.

dsalter

Runefang wrote: »

Every game gives you a toolkit and says "Here's what you have to beat, go for it". Using all of the toolkit or not is up to you but there's no 'righteous' way. Nobody is killing a puppy every time you bar swap cancel.

This argument is like all the others like Skyreach grinding, ganking, PvDoor for AP, shield stacking etc. Play the game your way, but don't expect it to be the best way unless you take full advantage of what the game gives you.

... you do realise they never intended you to spazz out to achieve more damage right...?
they just went "screw it its now a 'feature'" rather than actually improving or fixing it.

theres no skill in abusing a bug to reach higher numbers, all it does is set the ceiling even higher for those who cant/dont abuse it.

Runefang

dsalter wrote: »

Runefang wrote: »

Every game gives you a toolkit and says "Here's what you have to beat, go for it". Using all of the toolkit or not is up to you but there's no 'righteous' way. Nobody is killing a puppy every time you bar swap cancel.

This argument is like all the others like Skyreach grinding, ganking, PvDoor for AP, shield stacking etc. Play the game your way, but don't expect it to be the best way unless you take full advantage of what the game gives you.

... you do realise they never intended you to spazz out to achieve more damage right...?
they just went "screw it its now a 'feature'" rather than actually improving or fixing it.

theres no skill in abusing a bug to reach higher numbers, all it does is set the ceiling even higher for those who cant/dont abuse it.

It's not a bug, its a feature. Certainly haven't seen ZoS say otherwise or ban those who do it.

Again you can choose to not be a "seizure induced mage" and not do it but its 100% your choice. You're defining it as "not intended", not the game maker.

Claiming there's no skill involved in it is also nonsense, doing it consistently at the right time takes practice.

dsalter

Runefang wrote: »

dsalter wrote: »

Runefang wrote: »

Every game gives you a toolkit and says "Here's what you have to beat, go for it". Using all of the toolkit or not is up to you but there's no 'righteous' way. Nobody is killing a puppy every time you bar swap cancel.

This argument is like all the others like Skyreach grinding, ganking, PvDoor for AP, shield stacking etc. Play the game your way, but don't expect it to be the best way unless you take full advantage of what the game gives you.

... you do realise they never intended you to spazz out to achieve more damage right...?
they just went "screw it its now a 'feature'" rather than actually improving or fixing it.

theres no skill in abusing a bug to reach higher numbers, all it does is set the ceiling even higher for those who cant/dont abuse it.

It's not a bug, its a feature. Certainly haven't seen ZoS say otherwise or ban those who do it.

Again you can choose to not be a "seizure induced mage" and not do it but its 100% your choice. You're defining it as "not intended", not the game maker.

Claiming there's no skill involved in it is also nonsense, doing it consistently at the right time takes practice.

you clearly have no idea, the thing along with weaving which is PARTIALLY designed are game changers, you think people clear hardmode raids NOT abusing AC?
i'v been in groups that will literally kick you for not doing it because you just wont meet damage amounts without it.
new raids and hard modes of anything are designed AROUND AC.

and FYI, features are shown and taught. bugs are not. so master where is my AC tutorial when i made an alt eh?

DoctorESO

Is animation cancelling part of the Level Up/Skills Advisor yet?

dsalter

DoctorESO wrote: »

Is animation cancelling part of the Level Up/Skills Advisor yet?

nope.

Joy_Division

Have people who don't like "animation cancel" and are so biased to believe it's an "exploit" when the developers have unequivocally said they have embraced it ever thought of how unplayable ESO's combat would be without it?

It would be pretty much impossible to play a templar competitively because the class has zero means of preventing damage, which is what you'd have to do if you were not allowed to cancel the dumb channeled skills we have and block/dodge/avoid incoming attacks. That you think everything would just be fine without "animation canceling" tells me you do not play competitive content. And this isn't just a Pvp thing. If anything, prioritizing (that what "animation-canceling" is by the way) block and dodge are absolutely essential to avoiding one-shots in PvE trials and end-game content. There is a reason the game was originally designed to do prioritize actions. Yes, it was intended.

Without the ability to hold down block and cast breath of life, you've just consigned Templars to miserable deaths. The class has zero other defenses and zero mobility. Just delete the class and roll a sorcerer because they can precast a shield and actually don't want to block-cast anything.

The nonsense about "macros" and getting hit with 5 skills at the same time makes people sound ignorant. There is a one-second global cooldown between skills that cannot be overridden by a marco or "animation canceling." If I hit someone with 5 skills at the same time, that's because I am good at the game and know how to set up a burst (Purifying Light explodes after 6 seconds, Unstable Core explodes after 5 seconds, Meteor takes about 4 seconds to land, Reflective Light is a constant DoT, and one Puncturing Sweeps attack has 4 hits in one second) and that someone is bad for not disrupting my attack routine.

Twenty0zTsunami

Kova wrote: »

Jayman1000 wrote: »

Kova wrote: »

I don't get it. I don't understand why it's so hard for someone to just tap a fetching button after an attack. It is LITERALLY one more button. There isn't some big secret or technique. Just.......tap.......a.............button....

It's not that it is hard, that is not the reason. It's because I simply just don't enjoy doing it, it feels... I don't know. It feels like it's sort of a n exploit that I constantly have to do if I want to max dps. Very unsatisfying gameplay.

I understand that. But it's been 4 years. We're sure it's not an exploit at this point.

definitely an exploit.

Jayman1000

temjiu wrote: »

I rarely see people doing it because they "Like" it.

Now that is interesting. See, personally, I play the game to have fun. Yes, I only do things in the game I like and find fun, and if there are things I do not like... well, I don't do it. Like animation cancelling. If a game has too much stuff that I don't like or core gameplay is something I don't like, I simply stop playing and do something else. Luckily ESO offers many ways to enjoy yourself, animation cancelling thank god is not essential. But as a number of posts in the this thread has shown I think it is clear that many players DO enjoy it, and good for them, they are the lucky ones. I wish I could enjoy it too.

LadyNalcarya

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

Maelstrom Staff was designed around it.

Actually a lot of stuff is designed around it. Nb bow skill, for example. Even the way ulti gain works forces you to use attacks between skills. Back in the days it was tied to crits but then it was changed to attacks/blocking/healing someone who is gaining ult.

jnelson1182

I'm a lil confused, in eso does animation cancelling directly increase my dps in any or does it raise my DMG because it allows me to speed up my rotations by cancelling skills that do take time to cast allowing me to cast more instant skills.

rikimm16_ESO

Animation cancelling should be removed and skills balanced.

DarkAedin

jnelson1182 wrote: »

I'm a lil confused, in eso does animation cancelling directly increase my dps in any or does it raise my DMG because it allows me to speed up my rotations by cancelling skills that do take time to cast allowing me to cast more instant skills.

Theres a priority system that goes block/dodge/bar swap > ability > heavy/light attack.
One of each can be done in a 1sec window.
For dmg we just light attack and cast an ability right after for maximum dmg output (just like auto attacks in other games only we have to actively do it) and bar swap ur last ability animation on that bar to go to ur other bar. Simple stuff really. Just a bit of practice to get it down.
Advice for a new player would be to learn what ur rotation is then start slow. Let muscle memory kick in in the natural course and then speed up.

And no, animation cancelling does not allow u to bypass that 1sec gcd (global cool down)

LadyLethalla

What do I think about ani-cancelling? Not much, since my potato internet won't even let me reliably light attack...

dsalter

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

Maelstrom Staff was designed around it.

Actually a lot of stuff is designed around it. Nb bow skill, for example. Even the way ulti gain works forces you to use attacks between skills. Back in the days it was tied to crits but then it was changed to attacks/blocking/healing someone who is gaining ult.

thats weaving. AC is a different thing.

Ramber

dsalter wrote: »

Runefang wrote: »

dsalter wrote: »

Runefang wrote: »

Every game gives you a toolkit and says "Here's what you have to beat, go for it". Using all of the toolkit or not is up to you but there's no 'righteous' way. Nobody is killing a puppy every time you bar swap cancel.

This argument is like all the others like Skyreach grinding, ganking, PvDoor for AP, shield stacking etc. Play the game your way, but don't expect it to be the best way unless you take full advantage of what the game gives you.

... you do realise they never intended you to spazz out to achieve more damage right...?
they just went "screw it its now a 'feature'" rather than actually improving or fixing it.

theres no skill in abusing a bug to reach higher numbers, all it does is set the ceiling even higher for those who cant/dont abuse it.

It's not a bug, its a feature. Certainly haven't seen ZoS say otherwise or ban those who do it.

Again you can choose to not be a "seizure induced mage" and not do it but its 100% your choice. You're defining it as "not intended", not the game maker.

Claiming there's no skill involved in it is also nonsense, doing it consistently at the right time takes practice.

you clearly have no idea, the thing along with weaving which is PARTIALLY designed are game changers, you think people clear hardmode raids NOT abusing AC?
i'v been in groups that will literally kick you for not doing it because you just wont meet damage amounts without it.
new raids and hard modes of anything are designed AROUND AC.

and FYI, features are shown and taught. bugs are not. so master where is my AC tutorial when i made an alt eh?

Runefang

dsalter wrote: »

Runefang wrote: »

dsalter wrote: »

Runefang wrote: »

Every game gives you a toolkit and says "Here's what you have to beat, go for it". Using all of the toolkit or not is up to you but there's no 'righteous' way. Nobody is killing a puppy every time you bar swap cancel.

This argument is like all the others like Skyreach grinding, ganking, PvDoor for AP, shield stacking etc. Play the game your way, but don't expect it to be the best way unless you take full advantage of what the game gives you.

... you do realise they never intended you to spazz out to achieve more damage right...?
they just went "screw it its now a 'feature'" rather than actually improving or fixing it.

theres no skill in abusing a bug to reach higher numbers, all it does is set the ceiling even higher for those who cant/dont abuse it.

It's not a bug, its a feature. Certainly haven't seen ZoS say otherwise or ban those who do it.

Again you can choose to not be a "seizure induced mage" and not do it but its 100% your choice. You're defining it as "not intended", not the game maker.

Claiming there's no skill involved in it is also nonsense, doing it consistently at the right time takes practice.

you clearly have no idea, the thing along with weaving which is PARTIALLY designed are game changers, you think people clear hardmode raids NOT abusing AC?
i'v been in groups that will literally kick you for not doing it because you just wont meet damage amounts without it.
new raids and hard modes of anything are designed AROUND AC.

and FYI, features are shown and taught. bugs are not. so master where is my AC tutorial when i made an alt eh?

So you don't like animation cancelling but you also acknowledge that the creator of the game is designing trials and hard modes around it?

Seems like they approve of it then.

Lynx7386

Splattercat_83 wrote: »

This is a public service announcement from your friendly neighbor hood splatter cat. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS ANIMATION CANCELING SINCE THEIVES GUILD DLC. Thank you for your time and attention.

Must be fake news, you're wrong.

Betsararie

It requires skill.

If you are unable to do it, that does not mean it shouldn't be in the game

Sneaky-Snurr

I dread using AC but to be able to match the competitiveness in both PvE and PvP landscape, you need to learn how to AC efficiently and effectively.
I'm very well-versed with executing AC but the fact remains that it is actually a bug from the combat priority system. ZoS just have no way/idea on how to fix AC and so they incorporated it as a 'feature'. Stop saying that AC is built into the game on purpose because what it actually really is, is called a bug (and bugs are all unintended outcomes of coding so there you have it).
ZoS even confirmed that it is unintended in the first place.

generalmyrick

I consider my DPS in pve and pvp combat superior to those who beat with animation cancelling.

LadyNalcarya

dsalter wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

Maelstrom Staff was designed around it.

Actually a lot of stuff is designed around it. Nb bow skill, for example. Even the way ulti gain works forces you to use attacks between skills. Back in the days it was tied to crits but then it was changed to attacks/blocking/healing someone who is gaining ult.

thats weaving. AC is a different thing.

Yeah but people in this thread claim its the same.