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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8235739/
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8235739/
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ZOS, please detox this game a little bit. Show other people's CP up to a maximum of 160!
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LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭lol the max cps are voting no and the low cps are voting yes
ill agree, just being max cp doesnt mean you are compotent or skilled but its more likely a 690 will carry their own weight compared to a 160 cp.
if you want more transparency in cp, then let us see dps numbers from group mates
lol
I would love for group DPS meters to be a thing ... then maybe we'd actually get to see real in-game DPS on console!
I could also make people feel bad on my CP195 PC account when I do 50%+ of the group's DPS using a hodgepodge of all purple Training gear.
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LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Well, aside from the fact that it's so easy to level now this shouldn't be much of a problem for new players to get past, it's not the game, it's some of the people.
My friends and I have never worried about this, we don't even care if someone is at CP160. We've done vHM trials without people being at cp cap. You just are using the bad apples as the example to try and make it look like the whole community. And chances are, the players making those requirements know they aren't good enough and need someone as powerful as possible and would probably end up kicking the person for some other reason even if they didn't know their CP.
To your first sentence ... that, to me, is a big problem with the state of ESO right now.
It seems like there's a big void between CP160 and whatever people consider to be an appropriate end game viable level (CP300-400 or somewhere around there).
You're at CP160, you can queue for anything, you can start acquiring gear ... but you're kind of a black sheep. So ... continue running in circles killing zombies north of Sentinel for another 150 levels, I guess? People don't want you for normal Trial farm groups, people will instantly kick you from even the easiest vet dungeons (not always but it's not as uncommon as some people here seem to think), it's too early to effectively farm Maelstrom, etc etc.1 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LiquidPony wrote: »lol the max cps are voting no and the low cps are voting yes
ill agree, just being max cp doesnt mean you are compotent or skilled but its more likely a 690 will carry their own weight compared to a 160 cp.
if you want more transparency in cp, then let us see dps numbers from group mates
lol
I would love for group DPS meters to be a thing ... then maybe we'd actually get to see real in-game DPS on console!
I could also make people feel bad on my CP195 PC account when I do 50%+ of the group's DPS using a hodgepodge of all purple Training gear.
And there's the reason why ZOS won't let us have access to everyone else' DPS numbers. Because we the players would use it to make other people feel bad.
Its just human nature and ZOS is wise to leave that Pandora's box closed.
3 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MisterBigglesworth wrote: »No. Bring back group damage meters so people can be properly and legitimately kicked for low dps, not low CP.
I second this.
I hate you because of your low active numbers, not low passive numbers.Edited by Doctordarkspawn on February 8, 2018 7:24PM2 -
Cpt_Teemo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭MisterBigglesworth wrote: »No. Bring back group damage meters so people can be properly and legitimately kicked for low dps, not low CP.
I concur. We only want to kick the BAD dps players. Not everyone who is new to the game.
Not just dps, but tank and heals too0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MisterBigglesworth wrote: »No. Bring back group damage meters so people can be properly and legitimately kicked for low dps, not low CP.
I concur. We only want to kick the BAD dps players. Not everyone who is new to the game.
Not just dps, but tank and heals too
I can't usually tell if I've got a fake tank or a terribad healer until we hit the first boss and see them in action.0 -
JJBoomer✭✭✭✭✭So all I'm seeing here is:
I'm a good (insert numbers here) player, and I want to use PUG, which puts me with random people. Even though I hate pugging because of (reasons stated in this thread, and because of the completely transparent pitfalls of pugging in the first place). So instead of finding players I know I can trust running content with, I demand to be able to control or change the pugging system in order to exclude any player that does not fit my 100% subjective standards.
that is all this thread has become. which makes it irrelevant.
Being the best and most knowledgeable players in the game, then you should know all the reasons why pugging is bad, and should therefor know not to use that feature and actually look for people to group with that you know you can complete content with. I mean, that stands up to reason.Edited by JJBoomer on February 8, 2018 8:28PM5 -
Amadis001✭✭✭✭No. There is a big difference in EXPERIENCE, though not necessarily (and yet, still often) skill, between CP160 and CP690 players. I want to know what I'm getting into. A group asks me to tank a trial... if they are all high CP, I'm in. If they are all C160-CP300 players, I'm not. I'm just not into wasting my time.// Amadis of Gaul -- DK Nord (Lvl 50 CP 1000)0
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SoLooney✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »lol the max cps are voting no and the low cps are voting yes
ill agree, just being max cp doesnt mean you are compotent or skilled but its more likely a 690 will carry their own weight compared to a 160 cp.
if you want more transparency in cp, then let us see dps numbers from group mates
Because transparency isn't the goal of this.
Its the opposite of transparent, actually. The OP wants everyone above CP 160 to show up at CP 160. That means people can't kick people at a glance for being low CP for the content.
The supposed benefit of this is that now groups have to actually fight in order to assess the competence or lack thereof of the players in their groups before they kick anyone. Theoretically, this means that skilled players who currently are kicked for low DPS have a chance to show their skills while poor players who are currently benefiting from the appearance of high or max CP will now be quickly shown for the low skill players they are.
Theoretically, anyway. I'm sure we'd get many more complaints about people getting pulled into partially completed dungeons if this were implemented.
lol, it wont matter, crap dps will still get kicked for crap dps. it will delay the inevitable for what, a few min?
not hard to tell by looking at health and moves used whether the dps is bad or not
console players wont get exposed as much as pc players, that is a bad players saving grace.
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Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Most content is designed for 300 CP
Trials are designed for 600 CP
Hiding CP at 160 would just be odd#MOREORBS3 -
LegendaryArcher✭✭✭✭No.
If you are the weakest link, you are getting voted rather you are CP160 or CP690 if there is a legitimate struggle to complete the content. I would expect nothing less from others directed towards me as well. I don't want to be that guy hindering a completion for the group.
This is wishful thinking. Ideally, this is how it would go if there was a worked-in group damage meter, so that every group member could see dps and hps of every other group member and themselves. But the reality is this: click here
In the linked thread, OP has kicked a 'low cp guy' because 'dps was just not there'. Yet, if you watch his video, the 'high cp guy' is wearing sword/shield and resto, spamming flame lash without weave and doing resto staff heavy attacks. The 'low cp guy' has a lightning staff. Definitely not a pro, but his heavy attacks clear the adds and he's weaving force pulse, most likely doing between 70 and 90% of group dps, while the 'high cp guy' does 4k a best. Yet, OP has kicked (or tried to kick, since group finder bugged) the 'low cp guy'. This is the problem with the system. It forces people to grind, resulting in complete garbage players like the 'high cp guy' and problems for decent, constantly-improving low cp players that wish to play and learn their class rather than blindly grind cp.
OMG this thread. The elitism is really hard in this one.
1. OP is not asking for removal of kick function.
2. OP is not asking to somehow force you to run with bad players.
3. OP is not suggesting to take every random player from zone, regardless of their CP, into your hand-made trial party.
What OP is trying to do is to force you to give low CP players a chance! What does a chance mean? Fight the first add pack, fight the first boss. If the player is bad, you will see it and then you can kick them. It will remove the CP bias and will force you to look closer, so situations like in the post above by @Gorath can be avoided. It will stop people from kicking players instantly without giving them a chance. That's all. If it's a sorc with only frags on his bar, just bashing one button throughout the whole dungeon, feel free to kick. Fun fact, I just came back from a random vCoA2. The other DD was a 690CP sorc and was doing exactly that. Nothing else. No AoE, no other skill, no light or heavy attacks. Just hard-casting frags like his life depended on it, then waiting for magicka to regen.
Here is another quote of the, in my opinion, best post so far:Some weeks ago, I got into a vCoS on my tertiary account that had about 250CP.
I was kicked the instant the group was formed. Didn't bother waiting for the first trash pull to see if I was competent. Didn't get a chance to look at my character and see that she had a vMA staff and the title for vFalkreath HM. Didn't have a chance for me to say, "I've done vCoS literally over a hundred times." Just got kicked unceremoniously, even though I probably would've done better than most of the CP-capped DPS you'd find in group finder.
Of course, an experienced player on an alt account is not a common thing, and of course most low-CP players are pretty inexperienced and bad. But I will never vote for a kick until at least after the first few trash pulls so I can see if they look like they know what they're doing or if they're one of those people spamming light attacks. And if they are really bad, then sure, I'm okay with kicking them, even if they are CP-capped.
But a lot of people don't give you that kind of courtesy. I got queued into a vWGT on a CP-capped account, and the group had a low-CP DPS. Before we even went up the ladder, someone in the group was trying to vote-kick them off. I vetoed every vote, and the idiot would just start another vote. Did they ever get tired of clicking Vote to Kick over and over and over, only for the vote to instantly fail each time? Right before the first boss, I got tired of vetoing every vote, and I said to the group that whoever is initiating the vote should stop wasting their time because the low-CP DPS looked like s/he was competent and was using what looked like an okay rotation of skills and I will not vote to kick someone just because they're low CP. The healer at that point ragequit--apparently they were the *** doing the nonstop votes. We picked up a replacement healer who was also low CP, and we cleared the vWGT. Was it rough in certain places? Sure. But how do you expect people to learn if you don't give them the chance to?
So yes, I fully support hiding the CP past 160. That was the way it used to be before the VR removal. And what it'll do is force people to actually look at the things that matter before kicking.
In short: I'm not against kicking players, per se. And you can still kick players if the display was limited to 160. But you'd be forced to either look at how they do on the initial trash or ask them if they are familiar with the dungeon. You'd be forced to kick someone based on merit instead of just a dumb number by their name. Apparently, this is too radical of an idea for most of the people in this thread.
Edited by LegendaryArcher on February 8, 2018 9:25PMPAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates4 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »lol the max cps are voting no and the low cps are voting yes
ill agree, just being max cp doesnt mean you are compotent or skilled but its more likely a 690 will carry their own weight compared to a 160 cp.
if you want more transparency in cp, then let us see dps numbers from group mates
Because transparency isn't the goal of this.
Its the opposite of transparent, actually. The OP wants everyone above CP 160 to show up at CP 160. That means people can't kick people at a glance for being low CP for the content.
The supposed benefit of this is that now groups have to actually fight in order to assess the competence or lack thereof of the players in their groups before they kick anyone. Theoretically, this means that skilled players who currently are kicked for low DPS have a chance to show their skills while poor players who are currently benefiting from the appearance of high or max CP will now be quickly shown for the low skill players they are.
Theoretically, anyway. I'm sure we'd get many more complaints about people getting pulled into partially completed dungeons if this were implemented.
lol, it wont matter, crap dps will still get kicked for crap dps. it will delay the inevitable for what, a few min?
not hard to tell by looking at health and moves used whether the dps is bad or not
console players wont get exposed as much as pc players, that is a bad players saving grace.
But that's the whole point!
Good players have a chance to show good DPS, no matter their CP. Bad players get shown up for bad DPS no matter their CP.
Whereas now, good players don't even get a few minutes to prove themselves and bad players skate by until people realize that the CP 690 has no clue.
I may not agree withthe OP's idea, but at least I understand what they are trying to do.4 -
LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »lol the max cps are voting no and the low cps are voting yes
ill agree, just being max cp doesnt mean you are compotent or skilled but its more likely a 690 will carry their own weight compared to a 160 cp.
if you want more transparency in cp, then let us see dps numbers from group mates
Because transparency isn't the goal of this.
Its the opposite of transparent, actually. The OP wants everyone above CP 160 to show up at CP 160. That means people can't kick people at a glance for being low CP for the content.
The supposed benefit of this is that now groups have to actually fight in order to assess the competence or lack thereof of the players in their groups before they kick anyone. Theoretically, this means that skilled players who currently are kicked for low DPS have a chance to show their skills while poor players who are currently benefiting from the appearance of high or max CP will now be quickly shown for the low skill players they are.
Theoretically, anyway. I'm sure we'd get many more complaints about people getting pulled into partially completed dungeons if this were implemented.
lol, it wont matter, crap dps will still get kicked for crap dps. it will delay the inevitable for what, a few min?
not hard to tell by looking at health and moves used whether the dps is bad or not
console players wont get exposed as much as pc players, that is a bad players saving grace.
But it's not inevitable ... because not all low CP players are bad.
Bunch of brick walls up in here.0 -
Dapper Dinosaur✭✭✭✭✭Yeah, this is a great idea, let's allow all the 300s and lower to get put into a group for veteran mazzatun, cradle, bloodroot, and falkreath and not allow the players that actually can play in the dungeon to see the player's weakness immediately. Who doesn't love having their time wasted from the start?1
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MehrunesFlagon✭✭✭✭✭
✭Not only should it show the cp level,but we should be able to see gear,skill bars etc....1 -
Epona222✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭No. It's only the max gear level that is 160, the max CP level is much higher and has an impact on combat performance.
Some DLC vet dungeons and some trials require more than people being able to wear maxed gear.GM - Ghost Sea Trading Co - NA PC
Epona was a Romano-Celtic goddess dating back to around 1800 to 2000 years before computer games were invented.0 -
duendology✭✭✭✭✭MehrunesFlagon wrote: »Not only should it show the cp level,but we should be able to see gear,skill bars etc....
Ugh nope.PC/NA
- Redguard StamBlade dps ["bowtard" crafty girl who likes spinning with daggers too.]
- Breton SorcMag dps [She's got an identity crisis, but I believe in her.]
- Dunmer Templar dps/healer [she's a healer, then again she likes inferno staff too...]
And..
- High Elf SorcMag dps [It's quite possible his daddy was a Nord.]
I am an old-fashioned Goth0 -
LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Don't know what is toxic about end game players wanting to have a good experience instead of carrying people, but whatever.
There are tons of ways around that for newer players. How about finding a guild that is okay with helping newer players?
ESO already has pretty much no transparency, and it honestly kind of sucks. You cant see what gear other people are wearing, how they are skilled, their DPS or what achievements they have. Before I stared with ESO I was playing other MMOs where you could see those things and in my opinion it helped toxicity a lot, as you could check what you are getting into, people couldn't lie about how good they are and you pretty much never had to kick anybody as you simply didn't play with those people in the first place. It also makes it easier for newer Players to understand why they are weaker then others, as they can see the difference in Gear and Skills.
This is so ridiculously lolworthy and oblivious.
If you're so dead set on speedrunning dungeons and not giving low CP players a chance, then join a guild of likeminded folks and run the pledges with them. So-called "end game players" do not have a monopoly on the Activity Finder.
Demanding that low CP players should avoid the activity finder so that hoity-toity "end game players" don't have 5 minutes of their precious time wasted is the very definition of toxic. And it's hypocritical as hell to boot.4 -
Jura23✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm surprised how many ppl in this thread want to display their CP. I couldn't care less.Georgion - Bosmer/Templar - PC/EU1 -
Jura23✭✭✭✭✭
✭SydneyGrey wrote: »As a healer, I appreciate being able to see people's CP levels, because it gives me a clue as to who is going to need healing the most. If I'm in a dungeon with a level 690 and a level 42, guess who is going to need my services more?
I'd never vote to kick someone just because they're low CP, because if you do group finder, you're going to get people who are low CP. That's just how it is. If people only want to play with high CP players, then they need to find a good dungeon guild and not do group finder.
I can't stand people who use group finder, and then whine about getting put in with low CPs. Um, you used group finder. What did you expect?
afaik this game has no target healing, so I just watch healthbars.Georgion - Bosmer/Templar - PC/EU1 -
DieAlteHexe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I'm surprised how many ppl in this thread want to display their CP. I couldn't care less.
Same here. To me it's an indicator of my progress and nothing else. And my progress has little to do with PvP or dungeons.
Plus, points to spend are always nice.
Dirty, filthy casual aka Nancy, the Wallet Warrior Carebear Potato Whale Snowflake1 -
Jura23✭✭✭✭✭
✭MehrunesFlagon wrote: »Not only should it show the cp level,but we should be able to see gear,skill bars etc....
You can ask them to tell u.Georgion - Bosmer/Templar - PC/EU0 -
method__01✭✭✭✭✭another CP thread...why the hell zos must low my cp to reach a guy whos playing 1 hour daily?
play more.grind more and reach any CP level you want but let me play with my very hard -solo- earned cp
Edited by method__01 on February 9, 2018 4:37AMPC EU/NA /// PS4 EU/NA
Vasanha
This one hears nothing. Sees nothing. This one only sweeps.
desperately need a survey assistant0 -
Don't know what is toxic about end game players wanting to have a good experience instead of carrying people, but whatever.
There are tons of ways around that for newer players. How about finding a guild that is okay with helping newer players?
ESO already has pretty much no transparency, and it honestly kind of sucks. You cant see what gear other people are wearing, how they are skilled, their DPS or what achievements they have. Before I stared with ESO I was playing other MMOs where you could see those things and in my opinion it helped toxicity a lot, as you could check what you are getting into, people couldn't lie about how good they are and you pretty much never had to kick anybody as you simply didn't play with those people in the first place. It also makes it easier for newer Players to understand why they are weaker then others, as they can see the difference in Gear and Skills.
There's an even easier way around it for players that aren't new; don't pug if you can't handle pugs.2 -
0
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Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭central_scrutinizer wrote: »Don't know what is toxic about end game players wanting to have a good experience instead of carrying people, but whatever.
There are tons of ways around that for newer players. How about finding a guild that is okay with helping newer players?
ESO already has pretty much no transparency, and it honestly kind of sucks. You cant see what gear other people are wearing, how they are skilled, their DPS or what achievements they have. Before I stared with ESO I was playing other MMOs where you could see those things and in my opinion it helped toxicity a lot, as you could check what you are getting into, people couldn't lie about how good they are and you pretty much never had to kick anybody as you simply didn't play with those people in the first place. It also makes it easier for newer Players to understand why they are weaker then others, as they can see the difference in Gear and Skills.
There's an even easier way around it for players that aren't new; don't pug if you can't handle pugs.
Awesome suggestion. If all good players do that then inevitably the bad ones won’t be able to clear the dungeons anymore, which will lead to QQ, which then will prompt ZOS to nerf the dungeons. That way we’re all losing out.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.1 -
Bbsample197✭✭✭✭MisterBigglesworth wrote: »No. Bring back group damage meters so people can be properly and legitimately kicked for low dps, not low CP.
"LFG FG1 cp690+" i swear ive seen that once a week
yes to this!!!! bring back group damage meter!! i dont care how low cp you are but if youre doing waay more dps than the cp690 ones seriously though after the new lif festival im seeing alot of 690 who doesnt dodge a red circle!!! thinking they could survive the attack just cause theyre max cp.1 -
Bbsample197✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »LiquidPony wrote: »lol the max cps are voting no and the low cps are voting yes
ill agree, just being max cp doesnt mean you are compotent or skilled but its more likely a 690 will carry their own weight compared to a 160 cp.
if you want more transparency in cp, then let us see dps numbers from group mates
lol
I would love for group DPS meters to be a thing ... then maybe we'd actually get to see real in-game DPS on console!
I could also make people feel bad on my CP195 PC account when I do 50%+ of the group's DPS using a hodgepodge of all purple Training gear.
And there's the reason why ZOS won't let us have access to everyone else' DPS numbers. Because we the players would use it to make other people feel bad.
Its just human nature and ZOS is wise to leave that Pandora's box closed.
arent people doing the same thing with their max cp shoving it others faces so they can feel superior to everyone else?0 -
bloodthirstyvampire✭✭✭✭✭
✭Rohamad_Ali wrote: »Just finish leveling up . It's not even hard anymore .
Not everybody is in absolute bis and played the game for years2
This discussion has been closed.