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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/508927/

Why being a "CP Elitist" Makes No Sense

  • SidewalkChalk5
    SidewalkChalk5
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    Inarre wrote: »
    Except that the original post was challenging exactly that expectation and explaining why it's not reasonable. I would recommend going back and reading it again and challenging the supporting examples in that initial argument.

    Then you're flat out wrong. It is an objective fact that, on average, higher CP is a strong indicator of superior performance. No, it's not absolute and there are exceptions, obviously. People who disagree with that statement could be accurately described as "CP elitists", but what you're describing is just called "knowing obvious facts about the game". Higher CP is a positive indicator of more time and therefore more experience, stat advantages, and probably better gear. Sorry if you can't accept the truth, but it is what it is.
    Edited by SidewalkChalk5 on February 20, 2018 10:07PM
    XBOX ONE | NA | 1300+ CP

    Magniel | Aldmeri Dominion | High Elf | Templar | DPS/Healer | Grand Master Crafter | Master Angler | Former Emperor | The Flawless Conqueror
    Alts | Dr Tankenstein's Monster | Pain-is-Weakness | Spreads-the-Light | Born-of-Shadows | Lucky O'Shroomly | Naraj-ra | Ren-dar | Anshar Balspawn
  • Cpt_Teemo
    Cpt_Teemo
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    Someone with 500CP could have started 3-4 months ago. Where someone with 800-900cop started 2-3 YEARS ago.

    Big differernce.

    When pugging you think about about your own time constraints. Maybe post a 30k+ dps parse and you wont get kicked from vet dlc content.

    Some people went from Cp 1 - 2,500 just exploiting xp as well
  • Merlin13KAGL
    Merlin13KAGL
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    Which is why the CP change was terrible. I would rather they left the vet levels in. It really doesn't matter how many CP you have, it matters where you put them.
    I <3 you so much, right now.

    +1 Awesome for being someone that gets it.

    Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...

    Earn it.

    IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.
    I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
    Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS
  • SidewalkChalk5
    SidewalkChalk5
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    Which is why the CP change was terrible. I would rather they left the vet levels in. It really doesn't matter how many CP you have, it matters where you put them.
    I <3 you so much, right now.

    +1 Awesome for being someone that gets it.

    What's so "awesome" about that? It's obvious. Where you put the points matters, clearly, but you have to have the points in order to put them anywhere. Most suboptimal distributions of 720 points will still significantly outperform an optimized distribution of 200-300 points.
    XBOX ONE | NA | 1300+ CP

    Magniel | Aldmeri Dominion | High Elf | Templar | DPS/Healer | Grand Master Crafter | Master Angler | Former Emperor | The Flawless Conqueror
    Alts | Dr Tankenstein's Monster | Pain-is-Weakness | Spreads-the-Light | Born-of-Shadows | Lucky O'Shroomly | Naraj-ra | Ren-dar | Anshar Balspawn
  • Inarre
    Inarre
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    What DOES exist is the reasonable and accurate expectation that *normally* higher CP players tend to be superior teammates. That's a fact-based observation we've made over the many long hours we spent getting ourselves to max CP. Most of us DO want at least cp160 players in veteran content, because players below cp160 are almost universally too weak for most vet dungeons (especially DLCs) and the drops they get are worthless. It's not our job to carry them in vet content when they should be staying in normal where they belong, learning mechanics and gaining xp to reach the gear cap so they can get properly outfitted.

    And no, we're not going to go into the very hardest end-game content (veteran trials, especially DLCs) with players who are not max CP, close to it, or at least already proven themselves in some way. You are not entitled to impose burdens on players who worked their way to the top and want to run with others who have earned a spot in end-game groups.
    Inarre wrote: »
    Except that the original post was challenging exactly that expectation and explaining why it's not reasonable. I would recommend going back and reading it again and challenging the supporting examples in that initial argument.

    Then you're flat out wrong. It is an objective fact that, on average, higher CP is a strong indicator of superior performance. No, it's not absolute and there are exceptions, obviously. People who disagree with that statement could be accurately described as "CP elitists", but what you're describing is just called "knowing obvious facts about the game". Higher CP is a positive indicator of more time and therefore more experience, stat advantages, and probably better gear. Sorry if you can't accept the truth, but it is what it is.

    Saying "you're wrong" isn't a strong argument.

    Saying more cp = more time is incorrect, because i can:

    A) play on xbox until cp2700 and switch platforms. I would have 5x the experience of the average capped player but be treated like an idiot
    B ) play through the content slowly without exp boosts, eso plus, pots, Mara ring or events because i wanted to learn the content
    C) reach cp720 without ever doing a single trial, dungeon or other group activity. And i could do it faster, by grinding mobs.
    Edited by Inarre on February 21, 2018 3:22PM
  • Merlin13KAGL
    Merlin13KAGL
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    Which is why the CP change was terrible. I would rather they left the vet levels in. It really doesn't matter how many CP you have, it matters where you put them.
    I <3 you so much, right now.

    +1 Awesome for being someone that gets it.

    What's so "awesome" about that? It's should be obvious. Where you put the points matters, clearly, but you have to have the points in order to put them anywhere. Most suboptimal distributions of 720 points will still significantly outperform an optimized distribution of 200-300 points.
    Fixed it for you.

    Because clearly, a lot of people don't get it.

    It's quite impressive how many put the 'li' in ob(li)vious. It's like it's a gift to some.

    It's awesome because it's one of several factors that make a difference - actually make a difference. It's why someone with 300 CP's in the right places will outparse and outplay someone with CP720 in the wrong places.

    It's an example of why the OP does not apply more often than not and why the 'fix' doesn't fix anything.

    EDIT: You can have perfect build with perfect CP placement, and if you don't have the player experience or skill, it's still not going to matter. The polar opposite is equally true.

    Edited by Merlin13KAGL on February 21, 2018 3:36PM
    Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...

    Earn it.

    IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.
    I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
    Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS
  • KraziJoe
    KraziJoe
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    I am less concerned about DPS and more concerned about Mechanics in a Vet Dungeon. With Less DPS you can, in most cases, kill something but if you don't know mechanics of the bosses, then even the best player can get a group wiped.
    I twitch as Krazi_Joe
    Lvl 50 Sorc---Eel O'Brien
    Lvl 50 DK---Anti-Monitor
    Lvl 20 NB---Smokey the Eel
    Lvl 50 Templar---WeLoveZilla
  • SidewalkChalk5
    SidewalkChalk5
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    Inarre wrote: »
    Saying more cp = more time is incorrect

    Then it's a good thing nobody said that, isn't it? More CP is an INDICATOR of more time (and experience, skill, gear, etc). It's not absolute, as I stated clearly in the same post you're replying to. But it is strongly correlated whether you like it or not. I've known plenty of excellent CP300 players and garbage CP690 players, but those are something that rational people correctly understand to be "exceptions", which do nothing to undermine the general rule. There's both a general rule and exceptions to that rule, and anyone who denies either simply does not understand the game and is in denial.
    XBOX ONE | NA | 1300+ CP

    Magniel | Aldmeri Dominion | High Elf | Templar | DPS/Healer | Grand Master Crafter | Master Angler | Former Emperor | The Flawless Conqueror
    Alts | Dr Tankenstein's Monster | Pain-is-Weakness | Spreads-the-Light | Born-of-Shadows | Lucky O'Shroomly | Naraj-ra | Ren-dar | Anshar Balspawn
  • Inarre
    Inarre
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    [snip]
    Inarre wrote: »
    Saying more cp = more time is incorrect

    Then it's a good thing nobody said that, isn't it? More CP is an INDICATOR of more time (and experience, skill, gear, etc). It's not absolute, as I stated clearly in the same post you're replying to. But it is strongly correlated whether you like it or not. I've known plenty of excellent CP300 players and garbage CP690 players, but those are something that rational people correctly understand to be "exceptions", which do nothing to undermine the general rule. There's both a general rule and exceptions to that rule, and anyone who denies either simply does not understand the game and is in denial.

    We're arguing the same thing then. No one is saying that CP is an absolute indicator of anything. So using it as an absolute ruler on which to measure players against is poor judgement. I'm glad we could agree.

    [Edited for inappropriate commentary]
    Edited by ZOS_MikaS on February 21, 2018 7:07PM
  • Sharee
    Sharee
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    Inarre wrote: »
    Inarre wrote: »
    Saying more cp = more time is incorrect

    Then it's a good thing nobody said that, isn't it? More CP is an INDICATOR of more time (and experience, skill, gear, etc). It's not absolute, as I stated clearly in the same post you're replying to. But it is strongly correlated whether you like it or not. I've known plenty of excellent CP300 players and garbage CP690 players, but those are something that rational people correctly understand to be "exceptions", which do nothing to undermine the general rule. There's both a general rule and exceptions to that rule, and anyone who denies either simply does not understand the game and is in denial.

    We're arguing the same thing then. No one is saying that CP is an absolute indicator of anything. So using it as an absolute ruler on which to measure players against is poor judgement.

    That's flawed logic.

    If aircraft made by X company tend to crash 90% more than average, you just said that avoiding flying with such aircraft is poor judgement, because you are using it's bad reputation as an absolute ruler on what plane to fly.

    Avoiding low-CP players because 90% of them are bad is a very sound judgement, if you care about the quality of your companions (and don't have anything but the CP number to judge them by, which you usually don't).

    Edited by Sharee on February 21, 2018 5:44PM
  • Juju_beans
    Juju_beans
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    This eliteness is not only happening in ESO.

    It's happening in other MMO's as well. In wow high level players are kicking fresh level capped players from the end game starting dungeons cause they want "a quick run".

    Fake tanks and fake healers also abound in wow.

    Something has changed with players the past couple of years cause I've been playing MMO's for near 20 years now.
    IMO the past 5 years has seen a huge denigration of "community" and "team". Everyone is in a hurry; they only want to get to the boss, kill him and get out.

    It's all become rush, rush, rush and dps down the boss.
  • Chaos2088
    Chaos2088
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    Yep people who rant about cp when the content was do'able with less cp a few patches ago...is just not needed.
    giphy.gif
    @Chaos2088 PC EU Server | AD-PvP
  • SidewalkChalk5
    SidewalkChalk5
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    Chaos2088 wrote: »
    Yep people who rant about cp when the content was do'able with less cp a few patches ago...is just not needed.

    This same awful argument has been repeated throughout this thread but it doesn't hold water. CP star values have changed, and base abilities and other game aspects (mundus stones, for instance) have been nerfed to compensate for the CP power creep. The content is still doable of course, but a 561 today will have a harder time than a 561 back when 561 was the cap.
    XBOX ONE | NA | 1300+ CP

    Magniel | Aldmeri Dominion | High Elf | Templar | DPS/Healer | Grand Master Crafter | Master Angler | Former Emperor | The Flawless Conqueror
    Alts | Dr Tankenstein's Monster | Pain-is-Weakness | Spreads-the-Light | Born-of-Shadows | Lucky O'Shroomly | Naraj-ra | Ren-dar | Anshar Balspawn
  • Radinyn
    Radinyn
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    I was 200 CP tank and had 60% dps with 3x 690CP in my team
  • LordSemaj
    LordSemaj
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    Sharee wrote: »
    Inarre wrote: »
    Inarre wrote: »
    Saying more cp = more time is incorrect

    Then it's a good thing nobody said that, isn't it? More CP is an INDICATOR of more time (and experience, skill, gear, etc). It's not absolute, as I stated clearly in the same post you're replying to. But it is strongly correlated whether you like it or not. I've known plenty of excellent CP300 players and garbage CP690 players, but those are something that rational people correctly understand to be "exceptions", which do nothing to undermine the general rule. There's both a general rule and exceptions to that rule, and anyone who denies either simply does not understand the game and is in denial.

    We're arguing the same thing then. No one is saying that CP is an absolute indicator of anything. So using it as an absolute ruler on which to measure players against is poor judgement.

    That's flawed logic.

    If aircraft made by X company tend to crash 90% more than average, you just said that avoiding flying with such aircraft is poor judgement, because you are using it's bad reputation as an absolute ruler on what plane to fly.

    Avoiding low-CP players because 90% of them are bad is a very sound judgement, if you care about the quality of your companions (and don't have anything but the CP number to judge them by, which you usually don't).

    I agree with you. The logic is sound but some people see the logic as unfair and so argue against it. Logic isn't chained by such trivial concepts nor does it refrain from something because it might hurt someone's feelings.

    I think that's what these CP topics really devolve into. Some people favoring the measure because it's the best available while others are offended that they have to be measured at all and apply subjective feelings to the idea. I say subjective because not everyone finds it offensive to be measured. It's the normal way of the world in any position you apply to or carry to be valued according to seemingly arbitrary predictors of your performance.

    Unfair judgements happen. We live with it and move on knowing that they are outliers rather than the norm. Yet it shocks me to see how people think we can and should eliminate all outliers from being possible. No, I think if something is accurate most of the time, that's good enough for a measure.
  • Sawzallz
    Sawzallz
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    Here's what I think what's say I'm cp 260 and I have 392 skill points now if I enter a dungeon people are going to automatically kick me cause I'm cp 260 I also get annoyed when I play healer and someone dies cause they wanna run across the room away from the other 3 people and die and say "thanks healer" please don't be like these people.
  • LeagueTroll
    LeagueTroll
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    Radinyn wrote: »
    I was 200 CP tank and had 60% dps with 3x 690CP in my team

    Look like bad players have high cp too now. Community did not do enough to make them git gud.
  • Jeremy
    Jeremy
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    Inarre wrote: »
    "CP Elitists" (AKA players who gauge whether or not other players are good enough to run dungeons with them based on their CP) have been appearing more and more often in my PUG groups, often resulting in the Elitist leaving our group to repeat this behavior somewhere else 15 minutes later... So I wanted to put some thoughts to the community to hopefully put this ideal in perspective.

    CP Elitists completed the same content with people 129CP less a year and a half ago.
    Being an Elitist when the CP cap was 561 meant the "most elite" completed content with 561CP. A year and a half later, the majority of the veteran content out there is exactly the same as it was in One Tamriel, only the players have gained CP. With this in mind, you could say instant vote-kicking someone between 690 and 561CP is basically admitting maxCP a year ago was not good enough to run the content. And of course, we know that to be false, since we all completed content!

    CP has been frontloaded for almost a year, meaning the benefits of more CP is less effective
    I used the Morrowind CP optimal distribution for a mage with the same CP build as a rough starting point to calculate the average percent difference in damage for each CP level. This is just a very basic comparison, but the difference was laughable.
    • The average difference between a character with 690CP and a fresh vet at 160CP is is approximately 19.79%
    • The average difference between a character with 690CP and 300CP is approximately 13.26%
    • The average difference between a character with 690CP and 561CP is approximately 3.93%
    If this is accurate, it suggests that Elitists are always kicking based on less than 20% and often vote-kicking players for less than a 5% character power difference. Which brings me to my next point...

    Skills and knowledge mean far more than CP ever will
    If Combat prayer adds 8% damage, and 129 CP adds 4% damage, which is more important? Of course, the elitist will say "Well, I want a cp690 healer who runs combat prayer", and sure, that is ideal, but... we have ALL run PUG's and they are rarely ideal. In fact, there are many max cp players who have 0 clue what they are doing. Instantly kicking someone based on CP rather than skill says that the CP is more important. Which mathematically makes no sense.

    Or in other words, CP doesn’t matter as much as knowledge and teamwork does. And I'm not even going to get into how 690 CPs can be invested to be absolutely worthless. Or the limited effect 690CPs actually has on roles like tanking and healing. Or even, the fact that before we couldn't even see each others CP!

    In conclusion I would like to ask the community to re-think the inclination to vote-kick the next time you see a lower CP player in your PUG group, or even the importance of recruiting max-level CP players to your premades. CP really means very little in the grand scheme of veteran dungeons.

    It's never made sense to judge another player by their CP.

    You can be a good or bad player regardless of how much CP you have. Which is why I always give players a chance before I vote to kick. And if other players have a problem with that and decide to leave the group because of that then so be it.
    Edited by Jeremy on February 21, 2018 9:00PM
  • Juju_beans
    Juju_beans
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    LordSemaj wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    Inarre wrote: »
    Inarre wrote: »
    Saying more cp = more time is incorrect

    Then it's a good thing nobody said that, isn't it? More CP is an INDICATOR of more time (and experience, skill, gear, etc). It's not absolute, as I stated clearly in the same post you're replying to. But it is strongly correlated whether you like it or not. I've known plenty of excellent CP300 players and garbage CP690 players, but those are something that rational people correctly understand to be "exceptions", which do nothing to undermine the general rule. There's both a general rule and exceptions to that rule, and anyone who denies either simply does not understand the game and is in denial.

    We're arguing the same thing then. No one is saying that CP is an absolute indicator of anything. So using it as an absolute ruler on which to measure players against is poor judgement.

    That's flawed logic.

    If aircraft made by X company tend to crash 90% more than average, you just said that avoiding flying with such aircraft is poor judgement, because you are using it's bad reputation as an absolute ruler on what plane to fly.

    Avoiding low-CP players because 90% of them are bad is a very sound judgement, if you care about the quality of your companions (and don't have anything but the CP number to judge them by, which you usually don't).

    I agree with you. The logic is sound but some people see the logic as unfair and so argue against it. Logic isn't chained by such trivial concepts nor does it refrain from something because it might hurt someone's feelings.

    I think that's what these CP topics really devolve into. Some people favoring the measure because it's the best available while others are offended that they have to be measured at all and apply subjective feelings to the idea. I say subjective because not everyone finds it offensive to be measured. It's the normal way of the world in any position you apply to or carry to be valued according to seemingly arbitrary predictors of your performance.

    Unfair judgements happen. We live with it and move on knowing that they are outliers rather than the norm. Yet it shocks me to see how people think we can and should eliminate all outliers from being possible. No, I think if something is accurate most of the time, that's good enough for a measure.

    That's all well and good but when you sign up for a random and with a pug those low levels have just as much a right to be there as you.

    If you want to be so selective then you should not be doing random dungeon pug groups. Put your group together with the high cp you require.
  • Sharee
    Sharee
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    Juju_beans wrote: »
    LordSemaj wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    Inarre wrote: »
    Inarre wrote: »
    Saying more cp = more time is incorrect

    Then it's a good thing nobody said that, isn't it? More CP is an INDICATOR of more time (and experience, skill, gear, etc). It's not absolute, as I stated clearly in the same post you're replying to. But it is strongly correlated whether you like it or not. I've known plenty of excellent CP300 players and garbage CP690 players, but those are something that rational people correctly understand to be "exceptions", which do nothing to undermine the general rule. There's both a general rule and exceptions to that rule, and anyone who denies either simply does not understand the game and is in denial.

    We're arguing the same thing then. No one is saying that CP is an absolute indicator of anything. So using it as an absolute ruler on which to measure players against is poor judgement.

    That's flawed logic.

    If aircraft made by X company tend to crash 90% more than average, you just said that avoiding flying with such aircraft is poor judgement, because you are using it's bad reputation as an absolute ruler on what plane to fly.

    Avoiding low-CP players because 90% of them are bad is a very sound judgement, if you care about the quality of your companions (and don't have anything but the CP number to judge them by, which you usually don't).

    I agree with you. The logic is sound but some people see the logic as unfair and so argue against it. Logic isn't chained by such trivial concepts nor does it refrain from something because it might hurt someone's feelings.

    I think that's what these CP topics really devolve into. Some people favoring the measure because it's the best available while others are offended that they have to be measured at all and apply subjective feelings to the idea. I say subjective because not everyone finds it offensive to be measured. It's the normal way of the world in any position you apply to or carry to be valued according to seemingly arbitrary predictors of your performance.

    Unfair judgements happen. We live with it and move on knowing that they are outliers rather than the norm. Yet it shocks me to see how people think we can and should eliminate all outliers from being possible. No, I think if something is accurate most of the time, that's good enough for a measure.

    That's all well and good but when you sign up for a random and with a pug those low levels have just as much a right to be there as you.

    Those pugs have as much right to be there as you, but not the right to be there with you. It is your free time you are spending, and only you have the right to decide whether you want to group with someone or not, and he has absolutely no right to demand your company.
    Juju_beans wrote: »
    If you want to be so selective then you should not be doing random dungeon pug groups. Put your group together with the high cp you require.

    That argument cuts both ways. If you do not want risking that some people might kick you because of your low CP then you should not be doing random dungeons. Put a group together with the people who do not mind your CP.
    Edited by Sharee on February 21, 2018 9:17PM
  • Inarre
    Inarre
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    Sharee wrote: »
    Inarre wrote: »
    Inarre wrote: »
    i more cp = more time is incorrect

    Then it's a good thing nobody said that, isn't it? More CP is an INDICATOR of more time (and experience, skill, gear, etc). It's not absolute, as I stated clearly in the same post you're replying to. But it is strongly correlated whether you like it or not. I've known plenty of excellent CP300 players and garbage CP690 players, but those are something that rational people correctly understand to be "exceptions", which do nothing to undermine the general rule. There's both a general rule and exceptions to that rule, and anyone who denies either simply does not understand the game and is in denial.

    We're arguing the same thing then. No one is saying that CP is an absolute indicator of anything. So using it as an absolute ruler on which to measure players against is poor judgement.

    That's flawed logic.

    If aircraft made by X company tend to crash 90% more than average, you just said that avoiding flying with such aircraft is poor judgement, because you are using it's bad reputation as an absolute ruler on what plane to fly.

    Avoiding low-CP players because 90% of them are bad is a very sound judgement, if you care about the quality of your companions (and don't have anything but the CP number to judge them by, which you usually don't).

    Well i think your example is debatable, there is no evidence that 90% of low cp players are bad, or a definition of what bad is. That said you are entitled to your opinion and experience. The post was simply to point out that the stats behind low cp in and of themselves should not be reason to kick players from dungeons.

    My own metaphor I would say is, instead of an airline with a 90% more than average chance to crash, I think its more likely that we have an airline with say, 30% (= to the stats increase) more chance of having WiFi, (since players of any cp level can always adequately complete content) If you can afford that airline and you want wifi (max cp) you would buy tickets from that airline (make your own squad).

    If you couldn't afford it youd have to go with the airline with less chance of wifi (group finder)

    In the end im not here to argue with people if they want to kick people from their pug groups. I dont agree with it, and I don't think logically or mathematically it makes sense. I wanted to bring awareness to the issue and everyone here who argued in favour of kicking low cp players helped me do that, so thank you. I will be sending this to zos as feedback with request that they reevaluate their group finder settings to hopefully allow low cp players to use group finder to find groups and lower their chances of negative experiences due to cp prejudice. I think changes would make both sides happier (though it may increase queue times) and overall increase the games longevity through encouraging new players rather than excluding them.
  • salsahavok
    salsahavok
    Soul Shriven
    For me CP means nothing

    I was able to do this on CP 302


    And no, for those too lazy to click the link, I was not carried or pay anything since my name is on the leaderboard. As shown in the video
    CP 720 in PS4 EU, CP 670 in PS4 NA
    EU
    PVE
    High Elf Magicka Sorcerer called Salsa Havok
    Argonian Dragonknight called Highland Noble

    PVP
    Dark Elf Nightblade called Dark Salsa
    Argonian Templar called Sara-Zish

    NA
    PVE
    Argonian Dragonknight called Salsahavok

    Done HM VMOL, HM VSO, HM AA, HM HRC, HM VHOF, HM VAS

    PS4 EU and PS4 NA
  • MissBizz
    MissBizz
    Community Ambassador
    As someone mentioned earlier.. how you handle the situation matters.

    "Why are you even doing dungeons before CP160??"
    "KICK ME"
    "Fine I'll just stand here and do nothing"
    *continutes to troll*
    This is in vet wayrest sewers 2 by the way. Not a difficult dungeon. I was healing (max CP), and we have a "lowbie" DPS and tank, in the CP140-150 range... and then a max cp DPS spewing out the above comments.

    I was so annoyed at that DPS. We eventually kicked him (I didn't want to because I know that skirts them around the timeout) but we needed someone.

    During the dungeon I asked if anyone was doing the quest (so I'll wait around at the end) or if it was anyones first time. The DPS spoke up that it was their first time doing this dungeon. Essentially I just told them the "important" mechanics. (break free of fire, use altars etc.). After we picked up a new DPS (who also happened to be max CP) we went on our merry way and did the dungeon.

    0 wipes. That CP140ish DPS actually read the tips I typed out, did the mechanics, and accepted some food from me (they were a little low on health). The fights didn't last forever and it was still a relatively quick dungeon, complete with hard mode. After the dungeon, the DPS and I started chatting and they started asking questions. I explained how CP160 was max level for gear, they asked how to find recipes so they could make their own food etc. Genuinely interested in learning the game and improving.

    If you would just go on your way and do the dungeon instead of refusing to help (OR LEAVE), it would have been pretty quick and painless. No, instead they chose to spew out terrible comments.

    Like, I get it. If this was vet scalecaller peak and you were worried you didn't have enough time, say a quick goodbye in chat and leave. Don't be rude.

    Also, I know what it's like to be on the other side of the fence. Before that dungeon, I DPS'd in a pug. Healer was a guildmate, I DPS'd, and we picked up a lower lever DPS and max CP tank. This was for vet Arx. I was doing 78% of the DPS. Know what? We stuck it out and dungeon went fine, once again complete with hard mode. That DPS didn't speak up in chat though.

    Maybe some people expect to get carried, but don't just assume that off the bat. Some people are actually trying to learn the game and want to get better - refusing to play with them isn't helping.

    [edit] and for what it's worth... my DPS was really bad even when I was almost max CP. I didn't start getting better until I took the time to notice and improve it. CP doesn't really mean they're great. I'm max CP, I have a tank.. and know what? I'm a pretty terrible tank.
    Edited by MissBizz on February 22, 2018 4:35PM
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  • Dubhliam
    Dubhliam
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    I had a group of 4 for veteran Falkreath Hold.
    I was tanking, CP720 - on Discord
    Healer CP720 "what, I don't need that shieat!"
    DD CP720 - on DIscord
    DD CP327 - on Discord

    The first boss took forever, and the healer said something along the lines:
    "can we even finish with a CP 327?"
    at which point I asked the max CP guy if he had improved his DPS since last time because I know his capabilities.
    He voluntarily left the group, much to the healer's surprise.
    Healer almost left too, but I managed to find a replacement just in time (a good DPS player).

    We continued to run vFH and we would have done it with zero deaths if only the healer was on DIscord with us.

    Get to know the player, don't judge by his CPs.
    >>>Detailed Justice System Concept thread<<<
  • KochDerDamonen
    KochDerDamonen
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    Simply put, the only things you can see that could objectively demonstrate a player's power are CP and an achievement if applicable to the situation. CP can be arbitrarily grinded, and achievements can be carried for. Unfortunately, saying "skilled player" wanted either means people will come to you with their CP/achievements, or that you just have to take their word for it and drag them into a dungeon.

    For a lot of people, when they run three (or thirty-six, or w/e ridiculous number of dailies) dungeons a day, there isn't time for cross-your-fingers-and-go with randoms. So they hold a standard for people they'll party with, and ask for proof of it up front. Does it still fail sometimes? Of course it does, not as much as not bothering to sort at all.

    When I was still playing regularly, and regularly doing dungeons, I was the guy who would insist on teaching instead of kicking. These parties were never for me either, so I would form my own or try the dungeonfinder instead. If there's people who don't wish to party up with you, then pass them over? :p
    If you quote someone, and intend for them to see what you have said, be sure to Mention them with @[insert name].
  • Dubhliam
    Dubhliam
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Simply put, the only things you can see that could objectively demonstrate a player's power are CP and an achievement if applicable to the situation. CP can be arbitrarily grinded, and achievements can be carried for. Unfortunately, saying "skilled player" wanted either means people will come to you with their CP/achievements, or that you just have to take their word for it and drag them into a dungeon.

    For a lot of people, when they run three (or thirty-six, or w/e ridiculous number of dailies) dungeons a day, there isn't time for cross-your-fingers-and-go with randoms. So they hold a standard for people they'll party with, and ask for proof of it up front. Does it still fail sometimes? Of course it does, not as much as not bothering to sort at all.

    When I was still playing regularly, and regularly doing dungeons, I was the guy who would insist on teaching instead of kicking. These parties were never for me either, so I would form my own or try the dungeonfinder instead. If there's people who don't wish to party up with you, then pass them over? :p

    Yes, some achievements can be carried through.

    Look for the ones that can't:
    vMA Flawless and all DLC Challengers.
    I can vouch for any player that has 5+ Challengers.
    >>>Detailed Justice System Concept thread<<<
  • morrowjen
    morrowjen
    ✭✭✭
    O_LYKOS wrote: »
    CP is just a measure of time played. Nothing else. Granted you'd expect someone with such high cp to understand their character, roll, skills etc but this isn't always the case. A cp 300 can easily put more time and effort in to their characters skills and rotation and pull more dps than a lazy 690.

    There's also the fact that some of us with alts intentionally don't spend all of our CP in order to make the game more challenging when playing that character. A cp elitist wouldn't boot one of those characters but they'd also never know that none of the cp was being used or that only part of it was.

    I understand that people have limited time to spend on a game but really if you're so time strapped that you're booting people over CP without evaluating their play then you need to be playing with trusted guildies and/or friends.
  • Juju_beans
    Juju_beans
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    morrowjen wrote: »
    O_LYKOS wrote: »
    CP is just a measure of time played. Nothing else. Granted you'd expect someone with such high cp to understand their character, roll, skills etc but this isn't always the case. A cp 300 can easily put more time and effort in to their characters skills and rotation and pull more dps than a lazy 690.

    There's also the fact that some of us with alts intentionally don't spend all of our CP in order to make the game more challenging when playing that character. A cp elitist wouldn't boot one of those characters but they'd also never know that none of the cp was being used or that only part of it was.

    I understand that people have limited time to spend on a game but really if you're so time strapped that you're booting people over CP without evaluating their play then you need to be playing with trusted guildies and/or friends.

    I don't spend any of my CP on alts under 50 because I want to play them as they are..not buffed up with passives.

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