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Why being a "CP Elitist" Makes No Sense

  • SoLooney
    SoLooney
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    which is why i do dailies with friends and guildies

    i cant put up with pugs who domt have any idea how to carry their own weight
  • WuffyCerulei
    WuffyCerulei
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    CP does not equal skill. Some people who have high CP mainly do mainly trading, questing, light pve, and whatnot. I hate it when people who have a crap ton CP like me and say people who have like a third of that CP are bad, especially with DPS. Sure, CP can make a difference with dps when they get on the higher end, but if you're CP capped and hit like a wet noodle, that's skill problem. A person with like 300 cp can hit pretty hard if they have that skill.
    Touch my sorc, and I'll have an arrow for that knee of yours.

    PC NA
    CP 1600+
    Star-Sïnger - Khajiit Magicka Sorc - EP Warlord - Flawless Conqueror
    vMA/vBRP/vDSA no death/vHel Ra HM/vAA HM/vSO HM/vMoL HM/vHoF HM/vAS +2/vCR+1/vSS HMs/vKA/vVH
    Dragon-in-Shadows - Argonian Nightblade Tank - Shadow Breaker
    Eossos - Khajiit Magicka Templar
    Death-Singer - Argonian Magicka Nightblade
    Dark-Star - Khajiit Magicka Dragonknight
    Ice-Dancer - Khajiit Magicka Warden
    Tsalli-ko - Khajiit Stamina Sorcerer
  • Knootewoot
    Knootewoot
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    You can have high CP, but could have distributed it in nonsense trees (like being a stamina 2-hander and have distributed all points into magicka damage and staff light attacks).

    CP doesn't say everything if you don't know where someone else put their points.
    ٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶
    "I am a nightblade. Blending the disciplines of the stealthy agent and subtle wizard, I move unseen and undetected, foil locks and traps, and teleport to safety when threatened, or strike like a viper from ambush. The College of Illusion hides me and fuddles or pacifies my opponents. The College of Mysticism detects my object, reflects and dispels enemy spells, and makes good my escape. The key to a nightblade's success is avoidance, by spell or by stealth; with these skills, all things are possible."
  • Mazbt
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    I give everyone a chance regardless of cps. If i'm on my geared max dps I can carry. If I'm on support role and things are just NOT dying at all I'll bow out. If it's vet I will definitely leave but if it's normally actually I'll just slot some dps skills and get us through.
    Mazari the Resurrected (AD)- PVP stamplar main
    Maz the Druid - PVP group stam warden
    - many others
    ____________
    Fantasia
  • WhitePawPrints
    WhitePawPrints
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    Goshua wrote: »
    I had a CP690 spam light bow attack in a vet dungeon. Did not know a single mechanic either. I have no idea how someone can reach 690 and not know a thing about rotation or basic mechanics. The account must have been bought or he literally got carried through grinds for months.
    ...

    its not hard, im CP 740ish and have only finished a few (ithink) of the DLC vet dungeons, maybe one normal trial

    Cadwells gold, questing in general and pvp will get you there

    Caldwell’s gold got my main to VR13, equivalent of CP130. Plus low PvP activity. Sure there is a lot more content since VR levels existed, but not tens of millions of experience more.

    I always do the normal version of a dungeon before pugging the vet version so that I can learn the basic mechanics. That’s me personally, I don’t want to intentionally screw over others so I can get a free carry.
    Dozens of core groups that I participated in have left the game. We would bring our grievances here, but after years of white knights on the forum shouting down legitimate complaints, backed up by the inconsistent and biased hammer of moderators, we have all moved onto other games. Enjoy the sinking ships you've built whiteknights.
  • Amadis001
    Amadis001
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    Here's why CP690 matters: It's not that the CP690 knows what do to better than the CP300 player, it's that they know what _not_ to do.

    Experience matters against challenging bosses and for achievement-chasing. No-death runs, for example, don't happen because all players are all super-skilled. They happen because all four players know how to avoid all the stupid deaths that they have died so many times before.That is why, in my opinion, a group of CP690 players will more consistently have smooth quick dungeon runs.

    "Be careful, there is a Dwarven Centurion just on the other side of that door, and when you attack him, you'll pull a bunch of adds, too." It's experience like that I'm not going to find in a low-level player.
    Edited by Amadis001 on February 1, 2018 6:51PM
    // Amadis of Gaul -- DK Nord (Lvl 50 CP 1000)
  • Ley
    Ley
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    Niobium wrote: »
    One of my biggest personal issues with using CP as a guide to a player's ability is that I have an almost max CP Templar Healer. I know how to play that to its full potential, I leveled up all my CP via that toon (I quit ~VR8 and when I came back I re-rolled a Templar Healer). I know what to do.

    I also have an Argonian Warden. I only played it when new folks wanted to do low level content, jumping in to random dungeons - insane xp when coupled with first time quest xp.

    The moment that Warden hit 50 (and it didn't take long) it visually inherited my max CP. I have little idea how to play that character to its full potential - I don't even want to take it through vet dungeons. I don't have enough Skill Points and things I want aren't morphed. Skill lines I want aren't even complete yet.

    But anyone looking at that Warden would be like - oh, a 670cp, they're going to be awesome.

    No, no I'm not.

    And this is, imo, a prime example of why CP isn't the be all and end all of a person's ability. You never know if you're getting the person's primary toon that they have put all the hours in to, or some mule / crafter / easily leveled alt with little play experience on that particular class.

    Knowing how to use your character efficiently is only half the battle. Knowing game mechanics, the mechanics of different dungeons, and bosses is often far more important for the overall group performance, than you playing your character at its full potential. You've likely gained much useful knowledge and skills by playing your Templar all the way up to CP 670.

    I ran a dungeon the other day with some of the guys in my guild. One of them had recently hit 160, he was having a hard time in a normal dungeon and asked for some advice. Wasn't a big deal, we carried him through while giving him some tips. He couldn't understand how we were using so many different skills. Come to find out he didn't know you could bar swap. You're not likely to meet very many CP 690 players who don't know about bar swapping.

    Imagine you've completed a dungeon hundreds of times and have had to explain the mechanics to dozens of groups, you've been in dozens of groups that wipe over and over because they can't cope with the mechanics; it eventually gets old. You learn over time that higher CP players tend to generally out preform low CP players, you start being a little more selective of who your group with.

    CP definitely doesn't make or break a character, it does however give other players a hint at your skill level.
    Leylith - MagSorc | Leyloth - StamPlar | Leynerd - MagPlar | Leylit - StamBlade | Ley Eviticus - StamDK | Leydor - MagDen | Leylum - StamSorc | Leylux - MagBlade
  • LeagueTroll
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    Git gud then. Cp is now ez af to get. I insta kick everyone below 160.

    Then don't pug groups. If you did not set up your own "git gud" group then don't be salty and kick because you get a low CP in your group. If you are so "gud", most content my boyfriend and I can two-man so if you get one low CP, it shouldn't affect you for most 4 man dungeons (vet and normal). :|

    They want carry by me, they better ask nicely. I actually give a shot to ppl who say ‘i am new, is it possible for me to get carried?’ And i still kick most of them when they realize they don’t make the cut.

  • greylox
    greylox
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    Occasionally I get the reverse, I like running normals for the quick xp and chill and sometimes get crap for being in a 'low level' dungeon.
    PC EU

    House of the Black Lotus
    *{Smokes-in-the-Shade }* (Mag pet Sorc Argonian, prolific thief, willing participant of the dark arts, gardener of exotic...herbs)
    {Lugdum The Mechanist} (Hybrid Orc Templar, collector of ancient Ayleid smoking pipes)
    {Rantoul} (Dark Elf Magknight, likes an ale between boss fights, has been known to offer daedric princes out in a fist fight)
    {Red, The Wanderer} (Bosmer stam sorc and hunter extraordinaire)
    {Shoots-For-Stars} (Argonian Mag pet Sorc Ice mage Healer)
    *{Jinny the spark }* (Sassy Imperial Stamplar)
    {Crezzi the Drifter} (Magblade khajiit burglar, available for questionable operations)
    {Grif the Despised} (StamKnight Tank Nord, Eastmarch Master Drinker and spinner of tall yarns)
    {Geraldine Stone-Heart} (High Elf MagSorc Ice Tank, Mystic, practitioner of the ancient arts)
    *{Anawinn}* (Stam pet Ward Redguard, Mother to a bear and an unruly Hunger,Librarian, field medic and natures fist)
    {*}Mains
    { CP 900+ }

    Caretaker of Battle Island (Grand Topal), the holiday destination for the discerning warrior
    Residing in Stay-Moist Mansion-Shadowfen - The Smoking Den (as of 6th feb 2017)

  • eserras7b16_ESO
    eserras7b16_ESO
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    Look, good players carry the group. The ones that are scared, they're not so good themselves.
    Eptackt - Argonian Templar
    Belegrand - Redguard Nightblade
  • CelestialSlayer
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    I did the dungeon where there are loads of beastmen for the first time in normal last night. I had never done it before and neither had anyone from the group. Needless to say we wiped constantly, and don't get me started on the three invincible guys! Anyway some people left, some people asked to be kicked (lol). But we stuck through it, and a healer and I who started from the start made it. I shared repair kits with them and we got through it. Guess what I have a new friend in my friend list. Sometimes ask yourselves - why play an mmo if you can't stand people. True some people aren't good, and some people might have to go because they can't work as a team, but sometimes you can have a laugh at how bad you fail, stop, make a plan and succeed. Needless to say I went to bed far to late last night...
  • NinchiTV
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    The average difference between a character with 690CP and a fresh vet at 160CP is is approximately 19.79%
    The average difference between a character with 690CP and 300CP is approximately 13.26%
    The average difference between a character with 690CP and 561CP is approximately 3.93%

    Got ya, so we only boot < 300cp


  • DoctorESO
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    .
    Edited by DoctorESO on September 23, 2018 1:53AM
  • Narvuntien
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    I agree with your post, being able to play is definitely more important than cp number.

    I feel like the issue isn't the CP number itself but an influx of new players since One tamerial and particularly morrowind.

    Cp can be a pretty good indicator of how long someone has played and people that have been around longer both have had more time to learn and are more likely to have been MMO players not skyrim players. Those that turbo grinded to cp 690, surely they are MMO players because no normal person would do that. :P.

    There are people that play this game that are MMO players and players that are elder scrolls fans.. The original version of the game was too much of an MMO and that put off ES fans. Since one tamerial there has been a push towards being more ES like and so newer players are more likely to take issue with the MMO elements of the game, including strict dungeon roles.

    I am one of the new players and the MMO parts of the game just grate on me all the time.
    Edited by Narvuntien on February 2, 2018 4:08AM
  • thomas1970b16_ESO
    thomas1970b16_ESO
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    I vote kick people or leave myself if a sub 160 cp join a vet dungeon.
  • Ep1kMalware
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    I did vmol with a cp240 dro-ma'thra destroyer. I've seen a cp 240 flawless conquerer. Cp does make a mathematical difference, but it is not a huge deal to me.

    Either they perform ormthsy don't perform. All I really care about at the end of the day.
  • resdayn00
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    I almost always give a chance to low-cp players, as I mostly care about performance rather than cp. I finished vCoS with a relatively low number of wipes with a group of cp160+, cp190+, cp270+ and me as cp640+. After I explained mechanics in detail they could do it. Whereas there were times when cp400+ players couldn’t go past Chudan in vRoM even after explaining the mechanics multiple times. Of course it’s so much easier and more enjoyable when everyone knows what to do and we just burn through the dungeon without having to worry about someone not understanding it. But again, one of the best healers I know is around cp470+, and I know multiple people who are under max-cp but can do any content with extreme performance.

    Understanding the content, your class, and the game mechanics means so much more than cp. Give a chance and see how others perform before you kick someone.
    PC EU - Ebonheart Pact
    Resdayn Indoril, Dunmer Magicka Nightblade - Main

    Pactum Dunmeri | Ard Feainn | Aetherius Art | Kley Guild

    Achievement points: 26k+
  • Bobby_V_Rockit
    Bobby_V_Rockit
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    You may see me leave a random pug inmediately after entering the dungeon because I dont like that particular dungeon. In fact, I’ll only play wgt or icp of the DLC, wont bother with others. Its not a slight against others as much as it is knowing I dont have the deeps to complete it. That said, even on normal mode CoS cheeses me off so I avoid it.

    Edit: I’m cp893, I leave because I’m a crappy player and dont like holding up others, not because I think I’m better, but because I know I’m probably worse
    Edited by Bobby_V_Rockit on February 2, 2018 11:24AM
  • Merlin13KAGL
    Merlin13KAGL
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    I'm gonna call "***" on some of the posts and reasoning here.

    This is why most dungeons start with some warm-up trash mobs.

    In any case, you're going to know by the first mini-boss whether your group can cut it. (If you can't gauge it by then, then you are likely the one that's inexperienced.

    This may mean offering some helpful advice on mechanics or skill choice. This may mean flat out 'calling it' because it will waste everyone's time.

    As to those saying the dungeon will take an hour if below cpXXX, I certainly hope you're talking about the DLC dungeons or No Death / Hard Mode situations, because someone skilled in four man, the vet versions are far from out of reach.

    And to those that say you can't possibly understand the mechanics of the game at <CP160, just because you grinded your way to CP level does not mean everyone else did.

    Unless the person is sitting at 11k health, refusing to eat food or follow any manner of instructions, take the fight to the first mini-boss before determining whether or not to continue ~ DLC dungeons being the exception.

    At least have the courtesy or the guts to tell the person why they need replaced - often times, the experience (of getting their ass handed to them) will be enough for them to depart on their own.
    Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...

    Earn it.

    IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.
    I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
    Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS
  • Inarre
    Inarre
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    Diminish wrote: »
    Your post almost makes me feel bad for voting to kick that 584 CP DPS that joined our vBF PUG the other night. Then I remembered him running circles around Earthgore Amalgam relentlessly spamming like attacks on his sword and board DK, and I all the sudden felt much better about my decision.

    It isn't about the CP that gets you kicked. It's about how you play. Sorry to say, if you suck, and you are dragging everyone down with you, Elitist or not... you're getting the vote. I don't care if your are CP 10 or CP 690+

    I'm quoting you but this is a common comment so it applies to @FloppyTouch and a few others too. There is a difference between vote kicking a low cp player before you've taken a single step in the dungeon and vote kicking them at the last boss after observing that they don't have the skill that it takes to complete. I wouldn't disagree with you and have done this myself. In that instance you gave them a fair shake. No harm no foul. Though of course the nice person with time would try to mention why so they learn.
  • LeagueTroll
    LeagueTroll
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    I'm gonna call "***" on some of the posts and reasoning here.

    This is why most dungeons start with some warm-up trash mobs.

    In any case, you're going to know by the first mini-boss whether your group can cut it. (If you can't gauge it by then, then you are likely the one that's inexperienced.

    This may mean offering some helpful advice on mechanics or skill choice. This may mean flat out 'calling it' because it will waste everyone's time.

    As to those saying the dungeon will take an hour if below cpXXX, I certainly hope you're talking about the DLC dungeons or No Death / Hard Mode situations, because someone skilled in four man, the vet versions are far from out of reach.

    And to those that say you can't possibly understand the mechanics of the game at <CP160, just because you grinded your way to CP level does not mean everyone else did.

    Unless the person is sitting at 11k health, refusing to eat food or follow any manner of instructions, take the fight to the first mini-boss before determining whether or not to continue ~ DLC dungeons being the exception.

    At least have the courtesy or the guts to tell the person why they need replaced - often times, the experience (of getting their ass handed to them) will be enough for them to depart on their own.

    Since when most lowbie eat food? Lowbie are more like never eat food. And yes I straight up tell shite players they are shite.
  • dday3six
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    Do you know why we’re having this conversation?

    Because the entire dungeon set up for ESO is *** at building competency. CPs aren’t the real issue. The real issue is the gap between overland content and dungeons. With no solid starting foundation and subsequent build up of progression for dungeoneering to train players how to advance in them. We find many newer, often lower CP players at a loss for how to approach dungeons. The learning curve is a cliff and we all suffer for it.

    ZOS needs to set up and address the failings of the system. Many people riff on the ‘slower’ combat of FFXIV compared to ESO. Well you know what FFXIV excels at? That’s right, introducing and preparing players for dungeons. The system needs to be overhauled simple as that.
  • Inarre
    Inarre
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    dday3six wrote: »
    Do you know why we’re having this conversation?

    Because the entire dungeon set up for ESO is *** at building competency. CPs aren’t the real issue. The real issue is the gap between overland content and dungeons. With no solid starting foundation and subsequent build up of progression for dungeoneering to train players how to advance in them. We find many newer, often lower CP players at a loss for how to approach dungeons. The learning curve is a cliff and we all suffer for it.

    ZOS needs to set up and address the failings of the system. Many people riff on the ‘slower’ combat of FFXIV compared to ESO. Well you know what FFXIV excels at? That’s right, introducing and preparing players for dungeons. The system needs to be overhauled simple as that.

    You're not wrong but this isn't the complete issue either. Zos went to great lengths to conceal group DPS API so we couldn't judge or be judged for our group contributions, yet they revealed CP in the same breath. This numerical badge of "1337"ism is a great big neon sign above players heads that either says "I grinded hours in this game" or "I most likely contribute less to the team than another person and possibly have no clue what I'm doing either".

    It's not accurate of course, like others mentioned I have 690CP above my head but I can hop on my warden and do like 500 DPS and no one would be any wiser since they can't see my total of like 30 skill points and blue gear. But it's there nonetheless. There is absolutely no reason to have CP visible except for epeen.

    The only exception I can think of to this is that Zos wants it visible for a "help the newbie" badge. If so, they should implement signs like the sprout in FFXIV so that other players know to go easy on them. That is one thing I give to FFXIV (though I have to say I agree that the combat is shite) I have always had really kind, friendly players help me through dungeons there and help me learn about my class.

    I think ZOS is heading in the right direction with the level up feature they are introducing this month... But the CP thing is not necessary. And it's clear by the responses here that the community's opinions differ wildly, and those that have no qualms with being absolute douchecanoes to new players won't really be swayed.
  • Prof_Bawbag
    Prof_Bawbag
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    Don't agree with the "Because the entire dungeon set up for ESO is *** at building competency.". I think dungeons such as vFG1, vCoA1, vBC1, vCoH1 etc are a half way house between being forgiving a la overland and having somewhat of challenge attached for a newcomer to vet dungeons.

    It's how I initially learned. It helped me prepare for the likes of CoA2 etc. Not a hope in hell I'd have completed vCoA2 without constant wipes etc had I not cut my teeth on the above vet dungeons. Instead, my 1st run through vCoA2 only resulted in 2 deaths.
    Edited by Prof_Bawbag on February 3, 2018 12:24AM
    Carebear Master Race
  • SkyIsTheLimit1206
    SkyIsTheLimit1206
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    Just a note: Some "low CP" players are low CP not because of inexperience but because they made lots of alts

    For example been playing half a year, only CP300 because of 4 alts
    With strength and intelligence comes hard work.

    Which is why not a lot of people are strong nor intelligent.
  • Bobby_V_Rockit
    Bobby_V_Rockit
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    Just a note: Some "low CP" players are low CP not because of inexperience but because they made lots of alts

    For example been playing half a year, only CP300 because of 4 alts

    Its for this reason i never agree to vote kick someone lvl49 or under
  • Vermintide
    Vermintide
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    A good player carries the group and teaches the less experienced players what they are doing wrong. A bad player simply whines, blames everyone else, and then quits.

    So next time you come up to one of these guys, take comfort that it's them who are likely to suck at the game.

    If anything my favourite experiences on this game are when you scrape through a dungeon as basically a 2 or 3 man, but instead of considering the less effective players as dead weight, you manage to gift them a little skill and understanding on the way through.
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