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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8235739/
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8235739/
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Whats up with ESO combat?
daren.j.alirwb17_ESO
Soul Shriven
Okay starting of I must say this is going to be a bit long, and disclaimer I'm not the best player nor do I have all the answers. However I need to get this off my chest as it is something I have noticed and had an issue with for a while now and I think the community has become so used to it that it almost seems that no one is taking notice of it.
My problem is that the devs seem to have an issue with characters becoming more powerful that they already are. If you look at the last 4 game updates we have gained what 40cp on each tree? Does anyone feel their character gained any extra dps (as a dps), survivability (As a tank) or hps (as a healer)? I don't, and I noticed its because every time there is an update the devs tweak something that sets us back or more frankly keep us in the same position.
Is that fair? Does it make sense for them to spend time micromanaging the performance of our characters to ensure they don't go out of what seems to be the devs comfort zone?
What is the reason for this?
At first when all these "balance" changes were happening then you know it seemed like it made sense. Now if you look at it closely the only thing they are really doing is limiting our ability to perform better with what we have. Its either they are tweaking the sets to limit our dps, they adjust our skills to limit dps, they mess with our sustain to limit our dps, tweak tweak tweak. Like really? Why is it so much of an issue for someone to do 2-3k more dps per patch,, if you are a decent player? Its not like people are walking over your trials, crap if your lucky you can pug a good group to do some of the new dungeons but yet they seem to want to keep us down as much as possible instead of creating different types of content to give players different options to group and do stuff.
Players should feel their characters become more powerful, and new content should be released to match this new power they receive, and then maybe its a little easier to complete the older content. This system where you want everyone to go everywhere and be able to participate in everything is what needs to be "tweaked" You are keeping back the higher lvl players who have been playing the game for ages and allowing players who just started to advance freely, meanwhile when maxed cp players earn more cp it amounts to nothing because now they changed mundus stones or they adjust the skills or something that keeps us in the zone. Am I the only one seeing something wrong with this mentality?
Maybe a solution could be when new content comes out the lvl of the mobs on that content is higher (somewhat like the old days) that way players of a higher caliber can feel challenged players of medium caliber can maybe now do the older content more comfortably and try their hands at the harder content and low caliber players stay away from things that they are not able to handle or do normal, but you let people grow as they should not hold us back.
Honestly I don't know how these things would affect PvP, I am not a PvPer. To me they are not the same and if they are not they should be treated differently. 'Needed' balance adjustments for PvP should not affect pve. You already have a different zone for PvP why not expand on that idea and make more PvP only rules and allow them to coexist so no matter what environment someone is, they are experiencing the game in a way that is suited to them and not feeling the consequences of another play environment where things are somewhat opposite.
I would like to hear peoples thoughts on this topic. I will have other topics like this where I'm going to talk about guilds, and sets/crafting.
Please understand I am not bashing the devs but i would like to see combat improved and advance and I would appreciate that you read this objectively and keep negative comments to yourself.
My problem is that the devs seem to have an issue with characters becoming more powerful that they already are. If you look at the last 4 game updates we have gained what 40cp on each tree? Does anyone feel their character gained any extra dps (as a dps), survivability (As a tank) or hps (as a healer)? I don't, and I noticed its because every time there is an update the devs tweak something that sets us back or more frankly keep us in the same position.
Is that fair? Does it make sense for them to spend time micromanaging the performance of our characters to ensure they don't go out of what seems to be the devs comfort zone?
What is the reason for this?
At first when all these "balance" changes were happening then you know it seemed like it made sense. Now if you look at it closely the only thing they are really doing is limiting our ability to perform better with what we have. Its either they are tweaking the sets to limit our dps, they adjust our skills to limit dps, they mess with our sustain to limit our dps, tweak tweak tweak. Like really? Why is it so much of an issue for someone to do 2-3k more dps per patch,, if you are a decent player? Its not like people are walking over your trials, crap if your lucky you can pug a good group to do some of the new dungeons but yet they seem to want to keep us down as much as possible instead of creating different types of content to give players different options to group and do stuff.
Players should feel their characters become more powerful, and new content should be released to match this new power they receive, and then maybe its a little easier to complete the older content. This system where you want everyone to go everywhere and be able to participate in everything is what needs to be "tweaked" You are keeping back the higher lvl players who have been playing the game for ages and allowing players who just started to advance freely, meanwhile when maxed cp players earn more cp it amounts to nothing because now they changed mundus stones or they adjust the skills or something that keeps us in the zone. Am I the only one seeing something wrong with this mentality?
Maybe a solution could be when new content comes out the lvl of the mobs on that content is higher (somewhat like the old days) that way players of a higher caliber can feel challenged players of medium caliber can maybe now do the older content more comfortably and try their hands at the harder content and low caliber players stay away from things that they are not able to handle or do normal, but you let people grow as they should not hold us back.
Honestly I don't know how these things would affect PvP, I am not a PvPer. To me they are not the same and if they are not they should be treated differently. 'Needed' balance adjustments for PvP should not affect pve. You already have a different zone for PvP why not expand on that idea and make more PvP only rules and allow them to coexist so no matter what environment someone is, they are experiencing the game in a way that is suited to them and not feeling the consequences of another play environment where things are somewhat opposite.
I would like to hear peoples thoughts on this topic. I will have other topics like this where I'm going to talk about guilds, and sets/crafting.
Please understand I am not bashing the devs but i would like to see combat improved and advance and I would appreciate that you read this objectively and keep negative comments to yourself.
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VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ESO is not designed to have obsolete content with newer content designed to account for power creep, not after One Tamriel. The closest you'll get to that is the new Trials and DLC dungeons.
So the answer is that while players will have some power creep, progression in this game is created by players chasing the meta, then ZOS changing the meta, and players rushing off to get the latest BIS gear and meta skills/class again. If players get too powerful such that certain content is obsolete, expect ZOS to "adjust" various parts of the game to bring everything back in line. Morrowind's sustain nerfs were aimed at areas of PVP and PVE where players were outperforming ZOS' content and would have otherwise forced ZOS to create more difficult content that the majority of players couldn't play.
One of the reasons for One Tamriel was to bring the game more in line with the traditional Elder Scrolls experience where players can go anywhere and do anything at any level. So I don't expect that design philosophy to change anytime soon.2 -
Colecovision✭✭✭✭✭
✭For the record oblivion brought us care bear scaling. In morrowind you could go anywhere, but it’s best to bring an intervention scroll since it might be your only way of getting back alive.0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Colecovision wrote: »For the record oblivion brought us care bear scaling. In morrowind you could go anywhere, but it’s best to bring an intervention scroll since it might be your only way of getting back alive.
Sort of? In Oblivion, if you messed up your build, you could scale yourself right into unplayability. As for Skyrim:
Before One Tamriel, ESO railroaded us through certain zones where you could only fight stuff that was within 5 level sof you due to no exp or an artificial miss mechanic. I don't miss the railroad.
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Liofa✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes , what you are saying is true . We do get buffs but we also get nerfs . Sometimes nerfs are bigger than buffs . Sometimes the opposite . There was a time when Magicka Sorcerers could get 60k Single Target on trial bosses . Now , if they can get 50k , it is considered really high . There are only a few players left who can reach more than 50k+ and that's with a really good group and exceptional buffs . Similar with many other classes . Some classes can reach 70k+ in short fights , which was not even mathematically possible back then , so there is that .
In my opinion , what should be done is this . Keep empowering players on every big patch but scale dungeons too . I mean , we still have the same Rakkhat after a year , even the hardest fight against him can be nuked easily by a decent group after enough practice . Ain't no one wants to see their DPS getting lower and no one wants to kill the same boss over and over with the same difficulty . That's exactly what happened on One Tamriel patch . Craglorn trials were incredibly easy , not they are somewhat decent . They are still kinda easy and some fights let you skip mechanics which makes it boring .
I am playing a PvE tank mainly we never ever seen a proper alone buff to PvE tanks since I started the game . Only buff we get is CP increase , that's all . Every time ZOS introduced something that makes PvE tanks better , they took something away . Rest of the changes are direct nerfs . I still play it because I have very good friends in the game and it is fun . Seeing my character getting weaker is not .2 -
daren.j.alirwb17_ESOSoul Shriven
I understand this and maybe it is for the best to allow people to have loads of content to do, even if they don't need anything from doing the content. When I talk about crafting you would see where we can make these dungeons and trials more useful to the game instead of just doing it for pledges.VaranisArano wrote: »ESO is not designed to have obsolete content with newer content designed to account for power creep, not after One Tamriel. The closest you'll get to that is the new Trials and DLC dungeons.
[quote="So the answer is that while players will have some power creep, progression in this game is created by players chasing the meta, then ZOS changing the meta, and players rushing off to get the latest BIS gear and meta skills/class again. If players get too powerful such that certain content is obsolete, expect ZOS to "adjust" various parts of the game to bring everything back in line. Morrowind's sustain nerfs were aimed at areas of PVP and PVE where players were outperforming ZOS' content and would have otherwise forced ZOS to create more difficult content that the majority of players couldn't play.[/quote] I understand that they don't want us to walk over the content they already have but maybe they could find more intricate ways of doing that instead of stopping player progression. Also what your saying is for some people they will NEVER be able to do some of the content out there, because of how the game is set up to keep us in line they would never advance far enough just off of lvls to be effective. Believe me, there are loads of people who don't know how to set match, how to set their bars, how to swap weapons effectively, how to tank properly and do lots of other things that would make them somewhat useful in groups. So at no point will they be able to do certain content. Will they stay and play the game, when they themselves might feel they are not good enough.
[quote="One of the reasons for One Tamriel was to bring the game more in line with the traditional Elder Scrolls experience where players can go anywhere and do anything at any level. So I don't expect that design philosophy to change anytime soon.[/quote] and I have no problem with this, I made reference to is it because for lower lvl players they are buffed so they can do things they were not able to do in the past. But players that are maxed cp are being kept back from growing when more cp comes out, because they will change like you say the meta and bis gear which keeps us in line.
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