Is Twice Born Star BiS for anything now?

Bobby_V_Rockit

Is it?! I mean its like a more survivable version of necropotence that (can) look as good as you want, chuck on lover and warrior and your a go, seems like its undervalued now.

SodanTok

There is always better choice so... no?

Vapirko

BiS is kinda silly anyway. Are there mathematically better sets? Yes. Could you make a build that still performs really well in most or all content? Yes. People get too worked up over BiS builds. The only time they really benefit you is progression HM vet trial (maybe some dungeons) content and solo content like vMA or when you're pushing the limits of what you can do in PvP. Check out the stats from a BiS build and Ill bet you can get damn close with TBS and something else.

WuffyCerulei

TBS was mainly used to have both Thief and Shadow stones. After several patches, both stones have been nerfed. Having crit in pve isn't as heavily emphasized as raw damage is now. Though having the Warrior/Apprentice paired with another is appealing, the Lover stone is only really used in cheese parses, or if you're a solo playing wandering the lands of Tamriel. The Lover is also unappealing to end-game dps, especially with stam dps. Stam dps in trials and such coordinate their sets to get to a good level of penetration. One or both tanks in the groups usually have a set that gives a certain amount of penetration, like Torug's Pact with a Crusher enchant or Alkosh. If you're wondering why TBS isn't BiS anymore, that's why. You can certainly use it, and it's not a bad set for regular gameplay or soloing. Pair it with Spriggan's, and you'd be good.

Datthaw

Speaking from a purely pvp stand point I think it's only really viable for magsorc. The thing is to get the full effect you need to run all divine, which is normally a death scentence in pvp. You need that high lvl of impenetrable to keep from getting blown up by a combo. sorcs can pull this off is the 3 shield stack, just god forbid those shields drop.

Bobby_V_Rockit

I swapped necropotence for it (pet mag sorc), I only lost about 2k magicka (using mage and apprentice) in exchange for 1k health and 1k stamina, more dodge roll and more health seem to benefit me personally more. But I am not a BiS player and only ever pug group content.

Seems like a suitable substitute if I’m not chasing scores and/or am feeling lazy

Jim_Pipp

I'm not saying TBS is BIS, but it can give hybrid builds effectively 4 x 5pc bonuses.

Most criticism of TBS is that it has sub-optimal 2,3 and 4 trait bonuses (although not for hybrids), and that 2 mundus stones are basically the same as a 5piece bonus and a mundus stone.

However both the lover and the thief mundus offer both spell and weapon penetration and both spell and weapon critical, so they are superior to any single 5 piece set. I don't have a build that uses this but I thought it was worth mentioning here.

kylewwefan

Problem with TBS is you don’t want to use it for weapons, and that’s a major appeal of crafted sets.

Emma_Overload

I don't get why people are bad-mouthing the Lover mundus; it's essential if you want to make Dawnbreaker work on a magicka PvP build, for one thing.

Anyway TBS is not that great for PvE anymore, due to the reasons others have laid out above. However, it can still be strong in PvP if you are willing to wear Impregnable as your other 5 piece set.

SodanTok

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

I swapped necropotence for it (pet mag sorc), I only lost about 2k magicka (using mage and apprentice) in exchange for 1k health and 1k stamina, more dodge roll and more health seem to benefit me personally more. But I am not a BiS player and only ever pug group content.

Seems like a suitable substitute if I’m not chasing scores and/or am feeling lazy

That is not possible at all. Were you .. ehm.. actually using pet with Necropotence?

Just being altmer with 300CP gives you 4k3k more magicka with Necro than TBS with Mage mundus fully divines. Nearly 5k if you also slot shooting star and Inner Light.

Emma_Overload

SodanTok wrote: »

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

I swapped necropotence for it (pet mag sorc), I only lost about 2k magicka (using mage and apprentice) in exchange for 1k health and 1k stamina, more dodge roll and more health seem to benefit me personally more. But I am not a BiS player and only ever pug group content.

Seems like a suitable substitute if I’m not chasing scores and/or am feeling lazy

That is not possible at all. Were you .. ehm.. actually using pet with Necropotence?

Just being altmer with 300CP gives you 4k more magicka with Necro than TBS with Mage mundus fully divines. Nearly 5k if you also slot shooting star and Inner Light.

Are you saying that the racial magicka % buff applies to gear set bonuses, but not to the Mage mundus? That's interesting.

Izaki

Mechanical Acuity. Just sayin'

SodanTok

Emma_Overload wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

I swapped necropotence for it (pet mag sorc), I only lost about 2k magicka (using mage and apprentice) in exchange for 1k health and 1k stamina, more dodge roll and more health seem to benefit me personally more. But I am not a BiS player and only ever pug group content.

Seems like a suitable substitute if I’m not chasing scores and/or am feeling lazy

That is not possible at all. Were you .. ehm.. actually using pet with Necropotence?

Just being altmer with 300CP gives you 4k more magicka with Necro than TBS with Mage mundus fully divines. Nearly 5k if you also slot shooting star and Inner Light.

Are you saying that the racial magicka % buff applies to gear set bonuses, but not to the Mage mundus? That's interesting.

No, but your post made me realize something different. CP does not buff Necropotence 5th piece and neither mage mundus. Racials should buff both of them tho (and mages guild)

Still results in over 4k 3k difference between those two.

Necropotence = ((1096*3*1.2)+3150)*1.1
TBS with Mage mundus = ((1096*1.2)+3092)*1.1

//edit: forgot to actually put the divines number in
Basically it will always be over 3k worth of more magicka.

Which in no way is saying TBS is bad. But question is "Is TBS bis for anything" and answer is no. There is ALWAYS better choice.

magictucktuck

Well a lot of the best in slot sets, you're not getting the benefit of those last few percent anyways since you are probably not getting the last bit of dps out. most people in general would probably do just as good with a non "BiS" setup.

now that doesnt mean wear anything you want and do just as well lol but TWS hundings VO NMG sprig and TFS are all good choices for stam. you might be able to get a few k more dps out of one or the other if your already hitting 35k plus dps. but if your only doing 25k you can hit that with any of them, you can get higher than that with any of them lol

you can get 30k DPS with way more than those.. thats just an example (same goes for magicka, i just main stam)

Bobby_V_Rockit

SodanTok wrote: »

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

I swapped necropotence for it (pet mag sorc), I only lost about 2k magicka (using mage and apprentice) in exchange for 1k health and 1k stamina, more dodge roll and more health seem to benefit me personally more. But I am not a BiS player and only ever pug group content.

Seems like a suitable substitute if I’m not chasing scores and/or am feeling lazy

That is not possible at all. Were you .. ehm.. actually using pet with Necropotence?

Just being altmer with 300CP gives you 4k3k more magicka with Necro than TBS with Mage mundus fully divines. Nearly 5k if you also slot shooting star and Inner Light.

Yeah, that was a typo, it was more like losing 3-3.5k magicka.

Curtdogg47

I have been using TBS on my PVP Bow Build with the Warrior and Lover. The physical Penn I get from the Lover allows me to use more CP else where. And the Warrior is nice boost to weapon damage. Its like having HR and Sprigs. But I also run a glass cannon with 7 Divines which makes the Mundus bonuses very high.

I don't think TBS would be worth it if you aren't willing to go all divines. But it might work with 5 or 6 I don't know.

firedrgn

I golded a set and then theif and shadow got nerfffed.

This was a while ago. Its still a fun set and easy to change put stones to try different things. But its not bis.

Its a trade off. You give up somwthing tok get.

Bobby_V_Rockit

I thought I went full derp using tbs and asylum daggers, turns out I still out dps most pugs I find myself in.

Nifty2g

Twice born star was good to use with Shadow and Thief because Major Force (From warhorn) used to be multiplicative so using it with shadow + thief was great.

Since then it is now additive making it not so great at all, it was not the nerfs to the mundus stones, TBS was still most likely come out stronger if it was still multiplicative.

Vapirko wrote: »

BiS is kinda silly anyway. Are there mathematically better sets? Yes. Could you make a build that still performs really well in most or all content? Yes. People get too worked up over BiS builds. The only time they really benefit you is progression HM vet trial (maybe some dungeons) content and solo content like vMA or when you're pushing the limits of what you can do in PvP. Check out the stats from a BiS build and Ill bet you can get damn close with TBS and something else.

As for this comment, you won't get close with TBS and a Bis best in it's current state.

techprince

Yes, its BiS for having two mundus stones

Toast_STS

Best set for leveling as the 5th piece doesn't lose effectiveness. Just make one training set at 5 and 25 and that's all you need to get to 50.

mocap

Is it true Divine trait on TBS affect only one mundus??

SaintSubwayy

mocap wrote: »

Is it true Divine trait on TBS affect only one mundus??

if thats the chase, then its bugged.

It should buff both bonis, but im gona test that this weekend.