Add snare removal to dodge roll

Domander · January 2018

I'd like to see this implemented so that there is a reliable counter to all the snares out there, dodge roll is already balanced to not be spammable.

I don't think there needs to be a snare immunity.

It would be good for the game to have some counter play that didn't rely on a few abilities.

DoctorESO · January 2018

Solariken · January 2018

No way amigo, that's way too powerful to attach to dodge roll. IMO they should put a short snare/root immunity in Expert Hunter (Fighters Guild).

Domander · January 2018

Solariken wrote: »

No way amigo, that's way too powerful to attach to dodge roll. IMO they should put a short snare/root immunity in Expert Hunter (Fighters Guild).

Almost all snares are spamable/ reapplicable

If you are in a snare aoe the dodge roll would do exactly the same thing it does now.

Waffennacht · January 2018

It would end up helping everybody but medium really.

Shuffle would lose a lot of appeal

Heavy would be untied from 2H

I would see a lot more builds migrating away from medium.

Definitely would buff many magicka builds (maybe buff isn't the right word but I know I would love snare removal without having to build for it)

- and anything that I like that much is usually considered OP

Domander · January 2018

Waffennacht wrote: »

It would end up helping everybody but medium really.

Shuffle would lose a lot of appeal

Heavy would be untied from 2H

I would see a lot more builds migrating away from medium.

Definitely would buff many magicka builds (maybe buff isn't the right word but I know I would love snare removal without having to build for it)

- and anything that I like that much is usually considered OP

It would really open up and diversify builds, I think shuffle could be given a duration increase to help compensate. Medium has the cheapest dodge roll and is supposed to have an edge in mobility so it would help there as well.

Heavy and Light don't like to dodge roll too much, but at least it would be an option.

olsborg · January 2018

That would be great, specially for magicka builds.

SodanTok · January 2018

Would be fair solution to snares, but would again increase the gap between medium and other builds. All what medium really has is more dodge rolls, there is no benefit that makes dodge rolls better by being medium and everyone can dodge occasionally (on magicka) or pretty often (on heavy) gaining literally the same benefit of it. The reverse is not true for blocking or worse... shields.

Zer0oo · January 2018

Snare immunity to as long as you have a shield up? Magicka light chars could finally move again and it would have an counter since you would be snared if they shields are down. Eventhough stam already has some counter to snare it would add a few more interesting counters(ign shield, bone shield, blazing shield ...) without giving up a burst heal or without spamming shuffle.

Dreth · January 2018

Like this idea.Too many snares already and anything that promotes build divsersity is a good thing imo.

ToRelax · January 2018

We do need something to reliably purge/suppress snares at a reasonable cost. Dodge roll is already a powerful and common tool, so adding to that would make dealing with snares almost free.

JobooAGS · January 2018

Would one way to buff medium is to increase aoe resistance while dodge rolling?

Domander · January 2018

JobooAGS wrote: »

Would one way to buff medium is to increase aoe resistance while dodge rolling?

I've thought for a long time that medium should get some extra aoe mitigation.

Domander · January 2018

ToRelax wrote: »

We do need something to reliably purge/suppress snares at a reasonable cost. Dodge roll is already a powerful and common tool, so adding to that would make dealing with snares almost free.

I agree a general counter to snares is needed. I figured it made sense to add it to dodge roll, I mean you can roll out of a root but not a snare?

Most snares are secondary effects so they will likely get reapplied soon after the dodge roll. I don't think this is a bad thing, a lot of snares are with purpose.

Solariken · January 2018

ToRelax wrote: »

We do need something to reliably purge/suppress snares at a reasonable cost. Dodge roll is already a powerful and common tool, so adding to that would make dealing with snares almost free.

This is what I was basically trying to say before - I'm in full support of adding counterplay to snares but dodgeroll could easily me made hella OP.

What about this - using roll dodge without the fatigue debuff purges all snares on you.

This would basically put a 4 second cooldown on rolling for snare purge.

KingExecration · January 2018

As a magplar I fully support this. I'd drop vamp and mist with wellfitted amber plasm with trans and skoria, I would for once not get bogged down by zerglings.

Domander · January 2018

Solariken wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

We do need something to reliably purge/suppress snares at a reasonable cost. Dodge roll is already a powerful and common tool, so adding to that would make dealing with snares almost free.

This is what I was basically trying to say before - I'm in full support of adding counterplay to snares but dodgeroll could easily me made hella OP.

What about this - using roll dodge without the fatigue debuff purges all snares on you.

This would basically put a 4 second cooldown on rolling for snare purge.

That sounds reasonable.

WrathOfInnos · January 2018

This is a great idea, immobilization immunity should also apply to snares.

Vaoh · January 2018

Not a bad solution.

I'd rather snares were removed from like 80% of the skills in this game though. Roots are already not an issue, since you can dodge roll out of them and it should be possible for enemies to root you since that is key in some builds. It's the fact that practically everything snares you that has caused this whole issue.

Ragnarock41 · January 2018

Why?

Medium is just starting to get some value in cyrodiil.

Do you wanna take that away too?

If anything shuffle needs a %40-50 cost reduction to be on-par with forward momentum.

Kode · January 2018

That would make high stamina builds basically immune to snare and root because they wouldn't hesitate to roll out. Oh wait, they are already immune with forward momentum.

Vaoh · January 2018

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Why?

Medium is just starting to get some value in cyrodiil.

Do you wanna take that away too?

If anything shuffle needs a %40-50 cost reduction to be on-par with forward momentum.

Medium Armor needs a buff in itself. Shuffle isn't what gives value to Medium Armor. Forward Momentum >>>>>> Shuffle

Ragnarock41 · January 2018

Vaoh wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Why?

Medium is just starting to get some value in cyrodiil.

Do you wanna take that away too?

If anything shuffle needs a %40-50 cost reduction to be on-par with forward momentum.

Medium Armor needs a buff in itself. Shuffle isn't what gives value to Medium Armor. Forward Momentum >>>>>> Shuffle

Forward momentum = no rally.

The only reason people are starting to use medium nowadays, is because the mobility it offers is somewhat valueable in cyrodiil.
And they don't want to give up rally. not everyone rerolled into stamdens yet.

and no, medium armor doesnt need buffs, it needs better sets.
Im currently using medium impreg/ medium brass right now, because Im more mobile and I can keep my rally heal that way.
And I have a lot more resistances than I had with heavy armor, suprisingly Im more tanky with these sets.

IF dodge rolls gave snare immunity or even snare removal, medium would totally and completely die in PvP.

Shuffle costs needs to be toned down back to 2-3k so It can be spammed like forward momentum, that way both heavy and medium have trade-offs.

Yubarius · January 2018

I have a friend who in my teamspeak a few days ago, said there needs to be an unpurgable 50% snare in the game because too many people run shuffle/forward momentum.... lul.

AllPlayAndNoWork · January 2018

Just no......

DDuke · January 2018

Kiting is hard enough already in this game, I don't think having such an universal, easy way to remove snares is a good idea - especially when it heavily favours the S&B Troll King meta stam builds that run around without a gap closer, and the only way to really beat them on most builds is to kite them...

I get why people would like a snare removal though (from 1vX/zerg fighting perspective), but this is not the solution.

Domander · January 2018

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Why?

Medium is just starting to get some value in cyrodiil.

Do you wanna take that away too?

If anything shuffle needs a %40-50 cost reduction to be on-par with forward momentum.

Medium Armor needs a buff in itself. Shuffle isn't what gives value to Medium Armor. Forward Momentum >>>>>> Shuffle

Forward momentum = no rally.

The only reason people are starting to use medium nowadays, is because the mobility it offers is somewhat valueable in cyrodiil.
And they don't want to give up rally. not everyone rerolled into stamdens yet.

and no, medium armor doesnt need buffs, it needs better sets.
Im currently using medium impreg/ medium brass right now, because Im more mobile and I can keep my rally heal that way.
And I have a lot more resistances than I had with heavy armor, suprisingly Im more tanky with these sets.

IF dodge rolls gave snare immunity or even snare removal, medium would totally and completely die in PvP.

Shuffle costs needs to be toned down back to 2-3k so It can be spammed like forward momentum, that way both heavy and medium have trade-offs.

Here's the thing though, what if someone wants to use something other than 2h or medium armor? There needs to be a more universal counter to being snared.

If purge and rapids weren't so crazy expensive to use then this wouldn't be so needed.

ToRelax · January 2018

Domander wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Why?

Medium is just starting to get some value in cyrodiil.

Do you wanna take that away too?

If anything shuffle needs a %40-50 cost reduction to be on-par with forward momentum.

Medium Armor needs a buff in itself. Shuffle isn't what gives value to Medium Armor. Forward Momentum >>>>>> Shuffle

Forward momentum = no rally.

The only reason people are starting to use medium nowadays, is because the mobility it offers is somewhat valueable in cyrodiil.
And they don't want to give up rally. not everyone rerolled into stamdens yet.

and no, medium armor doesnt need buffs, it needs better sets.
Im currently using medium impreg/ medium brass right now, because Im more mobile and I can keep my rally heal that way.
And I have a lot more resistances than I had with heavy armor, suprisingly Im more tanky with these sets.

IF dodge rolls gave snare immunity or even snare removal, medium would totally and completely die in PvP.

Shuffle costs needs to be toned down back to 2-3k so It can be spammed like forward momentum, that way both heavy and medium have trade-offs.

Here's the thing though, what if someone wants to use something other than 2h or medium armor? There needs to be a more universal counter to being snared.

If purge and rapids weren't so crazy expensive to use then this wouldn't be so needed.

I agree there needs to be something universally accessible, but still tied to a skill so it requires a tradeoff to use. Purge somewhat works if you can afford it, but it's about as far from reliable as it gets, as the snares can be instantly reapplied and are often not removed with one cast in the first place.
What I could get behind on dodge roll is a snare reduction, something like 50% reduced effect from snares for 4 seconds? That wouldn't replace a more powerful snare purge/immunity though.

Ragnarock41 · January 2018

Domander wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Why?

Medium is just starting to get some value in cyrodiil.

Do you wanna take that away too?

If anything shuffle needs a %40-50 cost reduction to be on-par with forward momentum.

Medium Armor needs a buff in itself. Shuffle isn't what gives value to Medium Armor. Forward Momentum >>>>>> Shuffle

Forward momentum = no rally.

The only reason people are starting to use medium nowadays, is because the mobility it offers is somewhat valueable in cyrodiil.
And they don't want to give up rally. not everyone rerolled into stamdens yet.

and no, medium armor doesnt need buffs, it needs better sets.
Im currently using medium impreg/ medium brass right now, because Im more mobile and I can keep my rally heal that way.
And I have a lot more resistances than I had with heavy armor, suprisingly Im more tanky with these sets.

IF dodge rolls gave snare immunity or even snare removal, medium would totally and completely die in PvP.

Shuffle costs needs to be toned down back to 2-3k so It can be spammed like forward momentum, that way both heavy and medium have trade-offs.

Here's the thing though, what if someone wants to use something other than 2h or medium armor? There needs to be a more universal counter to being snared.

If purge and rapids weren't so crazy expensive to use then this wouldn't be so needed.

I think you didnt read it carefully.
If you want what medium armor offers, then you have to run medium armor. there is no ifs or buts about it.

Now I do agree snares are everywhere and I absolutely hate them, but I also think this gives medium armor a purpose in PvP.
Which is good.

You might think Im a biased stamblade, but no, Im actually a stamDk player, and I affected very bad by the shuffle change. I had to make a decision between medium armor + rally and heavy + forward momentum. But for the overal balance of the game, it was a good change.

It is unfair to some, but its a needed change that should have been done ages ago.

And I explained why forward momentum is fine , in the quote above. Its an opportunity cost. snare immunity for my only burst heal, I don't know about you but Its a decision that makes or breaks a build if you ask me.

Domander · January 2018

ToRelax wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Why?

Medium is just starting to get some value in cyrodiil.

Do you wanna take that away too?

If anything shuffle needs a %40-50 cost reduction to be on-par with forward momentum.

Medium Armor needs a buff in itself. Shuffle isn't what gives value to Medium Armor. Forward Momentum >>>>>> Shuffle

Forward momentum = no rally.

The only reason people are starting to use medium nowadays, is because the mobility it offers is somewhat valueable in cyrodiil.
And they don't want to give up rally. not everyone rerolled into stamdens yet.

and no, medium armor doesnt need buffs, it needs better sets.
Im currently using medium impreg/ medium brass right now, because Im more mobile and I can keep my rally heal that way.
And I have a lot more resistances than I had with heavy armor, suprisingly Im more tanky with these sets.

IF dodge rolls gave snare immunity or even snare removal, medium would totally and completely die in PvP.

Shuffle costs needs to be toned down back to 2-3k so It can be spammed like forward momentum, that way both heavy and medium have trade-offs.

Here's the thing though, what if someone wants to use something other than 2h or medium armor? There needs to be a more universal counter to being snared.

If purge and rapids weren't so crazy expensive to use then this wouldn't be so needed.

I agree there needs to be something universally accessible, but still tied to a skill so it requires a tradeoff to use. Purge somewhat works if you can afford it, but it's about as far from reliable as it gets, as the snares can be instantly reapplied and are often not removed with one cast in the first place.
What I could get behind on dodge roll is a snare reduction, something like 50% reduced effect from snares for 4 seconds? That wouldn't replace a more powerful snare purge/immunity though.

Yeah that could work, like an antisnare movement bonus that only works against snares applied to you.. if they can do it that way.

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Why?

Medium is just starting to get some value in cyrodiil.

Do you wanna take that away too?

If anything shuffle needs a %40-50 cost reduction to be on-par with forward momentum.

Medium Armor needs a buff in itself. Shuffle isn't what gives value to Medium Armor. Forward Momentum >>>>>> Shuffle

Forward momentum = no rally.

The only reason people are starting to use medium nowadays, is because the mobility it offers is somewhat valueable in cyrodiil.
And they don't want to give up rally. not everyone rerolled into stamdens yet.

and no, medium armor doesnt need buffs, it needs better sets.
Im currently using medium impreg/ medium brass right now, because Im more mobile and I can keep my rally heal that way.
And I have a lot more resistances than I had with heavy armor, suprisingly Im more tanky with these sets.

IF dodge rolls gave snare immunity or even snare removal, medium would totally and completely die in PvP.

Shuffle costs needs to be toned down back to 2-3k so It can be spammed like forward momentum, that way both heavy and medium have trade-offs.

Here's the thing though, what if someone wants to use something other than 2h or medium armor? There needs to be a more universal counter to being snared.

If purge and rapids weren't so crazy expensive to use then this wouldn't be so needed.

I think you didnt read it carefully.
If you want what medium armor offers, then you have to run medium armor. there is no ifs or buts about it.

Now I do agree snares are everywhere and I absolutely hate them, but I also think this gives medium armor a purpose in PvP.
Which is good.

You might think Im a biased stamblade, but no, Im actually a stamDk player, and I affected very bad by the shuffle change. I had to make a decision between medium armor + rally and heavy + forward momentum. But for the overal balance of the game, it was a good change.

It is unfair to some, but its a needed change that should have been done ages ago.

And I explained why forward momentum is fine , in the quote above. Its an opportunity cost. snare immunity for my only burst heal, I don't know about you but Its a decision that makes or breaks a build if you ask me.

and.... if you were magicka? Would you run medium armor? What if you don't want to run a dodge buff? I do think shuffle would need to be buffed along with a change like this, it's funny noone ever talks about the other morph, like the main reason for the (base) ability is to desnare.

I really think it would be a huge buff to medium, if anything.