Quarterly updates are too frequent if most bugs and known issues arenn't resolved prior to a new PTS

NewBlacksmurf

If possible, please consider your answer for whats to come. I intentionally have a yes or no because this poll isn't about maybe...other its a simple yes or no.
I doubt this poll will change what the developers have planned, however I do think its worth opening a discussion.

A new PTS is upon us for the first 2018 D Bones Dungeons, however I've noticed more than a few outstanding gameplay issues. Further, there are lingering system issues with paid features and services still unresolved.

While I've drifted more and more away, I do keep myself updated weekly and log in at least 4 times a month. I don't think any of us can define what cadence is best, but it would seem the 2016 and 2017 strategy has only brought about more content but we have so many issues and bugs now that the game and its tool-tips require third party add-ons or website build min/max info to play.

NewBlacksmurf

Yes I'd rather have quality over quantity

To add to this OP, I've noticed the forums have become more and more of a required step in order to overcome issues or fact check.

I know the developers read the forums so perhaps someone's comment will aid in their discussions internally about strategies and focus. Also.....updates and the developers needing to make money do not apply as they have successfully built in a model using crowns to cover lulls in between updates.

Apache_Kid

Yes I'd rather have quality over quantity

Seems like many bugs now are ONLY being fixed in these quarterly updates. Bugs like daily quests not resetting and the lore library not showing motifs known were reported the 1st week of November and are being fixed in February which seems like an awful long time to me. And this doesn't even include the bugs like the Cyrodiil quest boards and shadow image that aren't even in the PTS patch notes with a fix included. There are many of these. I wish they would put all new content on HOLD for a whole quarter and use an update to go back and fix all the old content and bugs that there currently in the game. What good is 2 new dungeons if old dungeons still have glitchy bosses or certain quests are broken or coding errors causing Xbox players to crash in DLC areas? Take a look at all the clipping and floating issues with certain costumes and armor. I could not possibly care less that we are getting an outfit system when there are a plethora of bugs and issues affecting my game-play daily.

Stop the content creation for a few months and give the game some relief. It's drowning in performance issues and bugs.

NewBlacksmurf

Yes I'd rather have quality over quantity

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Seems like many bugs now are ONLY being fixed in these quarterly updates. Bugs like daily quests not resetting and the lore library not showing motifs known were reported the 1st week of November and are being fixed in February which seems like an awful long time to me. And this doesn't even include the bugs like the Cyrodiil quest boards and shadow image that aren't even in the PTS patch notes with a fix included. There are many of these. I wish they would put all new content on HOLD for a whole quarter and use an update to go back and fix all the old content and bugs that there currently in the game. What good is 2 new dungeons if old dungeons still have glitchy bosses or certain quests are broken or coding errors causing Xbox players to crash in DLC areas? Take a look at all the clipping and floating issues with certain costumes and armor. I could not possibly care less that we are getting an outfit system when there are a plethora of bugs and issues affecting my game-play daily.

Stop the content creation for a few months and give the game some relief. It's drowning in performance issues and bugs.

and with this.....I think its odd that they are trying to keep the pace considering how many jobs they have listed and for how long some have been listed. It seems they are scarily understaffed and lacking expertise in some respects.

Smmokkee

Yes I'd rather have quality over quantity

These quarterly updates have never been to my liking.

Apache_Kid

Yes I'd rather have quality over quantity

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Seems like many bugs now are ONLY being fixed in these quarterly updates. Bugs like daily quests not resetting and the lore library not showing motifs known were reported the 1st week of November and are being fixed in February which seems like an awful long time to me. And this doesn't even include the bugs like the Cyrodiil quest boards and shadow image that aren't even in the PTS patch notes with a fix included. There are many of these. I wish they would put all new content on HOLD for a whole quarter and use an update to go back and fix all the old content and bugs that there currently in the game. What good is 2 new dungeons if old dungeons still have glitchy bosses or certain quests are broken or coding errors causing Xbox players to crash in DLC areas? Take a look at all the clipping and floating issues with certain costumes and armor. I could not possibly care less that we are getting an outfit system when there are a plethora of bugs and issues affecting my game-play daily.

Stop the content creation for a few months and give the game some relief. It's drowning in performance issues and bugs.

and with this.....I think its odd that they are trying to keep the pace considering how many jobs they have listed and for how long some have been listed. It seems they are scarily understaffed and lacking expertise in some respects.

Yeah i definitely get the feeling that they are incredibly under-staffed. Like there's no way the same guy has been showing up to work for 3 months going "Dang I just cannot seem to get this shadow image skill to work right!"

I have the feeling the devs really want to improve the game and improve performance by fixing bugs and creating less bugs but I bet they have content creation goals given to them that they have to meet which doesn't leave much time for looking backwards and older stuff that needs to be fixed. Feels as if they are running on a skeleton crew. I hope they get some more people in there soon to help.

NewBlacksmurf

Yes I'd rather have quality over quantity

Apache_Kid wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Seems like many bugs now are ONLY being fixed in these quarterly updates. Bugs like daily quests not resetting and the lore library not showing motifs known were reported the 1st week of November and are being fixed in February which seems like an awful long time to me. And this doesn't even include the bugs like the Cyrodiil quest boards and shadow image that aren't even in the PTS patch notes with a fix included. There are many of these. I wish they would put all new content on HOLD for a whole quarter and use an update to go back and fix all the old content and bugs that there currently in the game. What good is 2 new dungeons if old dungeons still have glitchy bosses or certain quests are broken or coding errors causing Xbox players to crash in DLC areas? Take a look at all the clipping and floating issues with certain costumes and armor. I could not possibly care less that we are getting an outfit system when there are a plethora of bugs and issues affecting my game-play daily.

Stop the content creation for a few months and give the game some relief. It's drowning in performance issues and bugs.

and with this.....I think its odd that they are trying to keep the pace considering how many jobs they have listed and for how long some have been listed. It seems they are scarily understaffed and lacking expertise in some respects.

Yeah i definitely get the feeling that they are incredibly under-staffed. Like there's no way the same guy has been showing up to work for 3 months going "Dang I just cannot seem to get this shadow image skill to work right!"

I have the feeling the devs really want to improve the game and improve performance by fixing bugs and creating less bugs but I bet they have content creation goals given to them that they have to meet which doesn't leave much time for looking backwards and older stuff that needs to be fixed. Feels as if they are running on a skeleton crew. I hope they get some more people in there soon to help.

I think more of the issue is the director pushing....we WILL HAVE AN UPDATE and WE WILL HAVE MONTHLY monetization.

See what may have occurred is the business is good, and often times that outweighs the game quality.
As staff, you may get over worked but if the money is good and gets better ppl just stick around.

Those people often are involved with how new folks work, so I don't think the larger issue its being understaffed...its employee expectations, the employee culture and leadership. One of the guys running the show has for over 20 years been less concerned about bugs and quality even before joining Zenimax.

Dark Age of Camelot still has bugs and glitches prior to the sale of Mythic to EA that existed in 2000

Moloch1514

Yes I'd rather have quality over quantity

Problem is that the lady they brought in to run cash store is probably dictating how resources are used amongst the teams. Seems right now 95% of revenue goes to Marketing and art assets for Crown items.

Apache_Kid

Yes I'd rather have quality over quantity

Moloch1514 wrote: »

Problem is that the lady they brought in to run cash store is probably dictating how resources are used amongst the teams. Seems right now 95% of revenue goes to Marketing and art assets for Crown items.

Yeah it doesn't feel like any of the exorbitant profits from the crown-store are being invested back into the game at all in terms of infrastructure and performance upgrades.

NewBlacksmurf

Yes I'd rather have quality over quantity

Moloch1514 wrote: »

Problem is that the lady they brought in to run cash store is probably dictating how resources are used amongst the teams. Seems right now 95% of revenue goes to Marketing and art assets for Crown items.

I can't even put that on them. Lets be honest, update cadence absence of quality was an issue when it was PC only and subscription only. The only time quality was occurring was in 2013 closed BETA.....once they reached 2014 and we knew about the console delays and Imperial City delays it was all downhill.

In closed beta this is when it all started....we would see these all the time and it took months to even get a comment on them.
This isn't photo shop....you would see multiples of these during gameplay before crashing.




Next.. with the first big update which was prior to Craglorn. We called it the lighting update...I think I stopped my sub the first time then and support would send me 3-7 day passes to trouble shoot bugs with that update for 2-3 months.

KanedaSyndrome

Yes I'd rather have quality over quantity

The wording is a bit biased in the answers, but with the situation as you put it, my answer is yes.

We definitely need someone to address the outstanding issues, while someone is delivering new content in parallel. I'm afraid that they may be operating with the concept of good enough when it comes to the core gameplay and its issues.

NewBlacksmurf

Yes I'd rather have quality over quantity

KanedaSyndrome wrote: »

The wording is a bit biased in the answers, but with the situation as you put it, my answer is yes.

We definitely need someone to address the outstanding issues, while someone is delivering new content in parallel. I'm afraid that they may be operating with the concept of good enough when it comes to the core gameplay and its issues.

@KanedaSyndrome How would you have worded your response if given different wording in the poll...
That is good feedback to share I think

idk

It's not about quantity over quality. I'd expect op is aware different teams work on different aspects of game he game. Plain and simple that's it.

rhapsodious

I think almost of the base would prefer quality over quantity, but their investors and stakeholders think differently. They want new content that makes money so that they're convinced to continue giving Zenimax their money. Bug fixes and the like are definitely important, but they just don't have as high of an ROI as stuff that actually gets added to the game. Players aren't going to flock to an update where the main advertising point is "we fixed a lot of bugs", since 90% of the game works fine or well enough (Yes, you can argue that part of that 10% is fundamentally broken. But the point remains that the game as a whole mostly works).

Stuff like lorebooks not showing up in Eidetic Memory or NPC speaking animations being wonky is annoying, yes, but it's not important in the long run, so it waits until a major patch, whereas stuff like main zone quests that are bugged in a manner that prevents completion are pushed up the priority pipeline and usually get faster fixes in an incremental.

I think it's a combination of not having the resources/Zenimax Media focusing more on content delivery than improving on what's already there. It's not a terrible decision from a business perspective, but it's definitely discouraging for players if they feel like their concerns are ignored. And sure, some of the issues addressed time and again have been in need of love for a long amount of time, please don't think I'm blindly defending all of their decisions. However I think the vast majority of their developers want to fix the bugs as much as we want them to be fixed. It's just not a productive use of time to get the art team to try to fix the lag in Cyrodiil. :P

Motherball

I would choose quality over quantity to a certain extent. If a bug took a year to fix even with a devoted team, I may rather have some new content, especially if it’s good content.

Apache_Kid

Yes I'd rather have quality over quantity

idk wrote: »

It's not about quantity over quality. I'd expect op is aware different teams work on different aspects of game he game. Plain and simple that's it.

Well the team that works on fixing bugs and issues with older content seems to moving at a snails pace.

BlazingDynamo

Yes I'd rather have quality over quantity

I like quarterly updates but I would much rather see 2 large dlcs or even one and the rest of the updates just bug fixes and quality of life improvements.

Bring back loyalty rewards for eso+ members so that we don't feel like staying subbed is a waste of money.

SodanTok

People resolving bugs aren't the same people making dungeons. Possible one of the reason why are dungeons separating the bigger content DLCs.

Apache_Kid

Yes I'd rather have quality over quantity

SodanTok wrote: »

People resolving bugs aren't the same people making dungeons. Possible one of the reason why are dungeons separating the bigger content DLCs.

There are plenty of things wrong with older dungeons that can be fixed if someone took the time to go back and look. Doors that won't open sometimes, bosses getting stuck on platforms, dialouge happening at the wrong time, certain bosses sometimes not being recognized as being killed so acheivments don't proc upon completion, the list goes on.

Fix our old dungeons before we get new ones.

Beardimus

Yes I'd rather have quality over quantity

The pace of content does seem relentless, its too fast for me as I'm a PvE completed finisher etc.

But do conquer id like to see things fixed (vMA) before next stuff.

Content is Important, but I'd happily mid one update worry's of new stuff to fix old stuff

Ashtaris

rhapsodious wrote: »

I think almost of the base would prefer quality over quantity, but their investors and stakeholders think differently. They want new content that makes money so that they're convinced to continue giving Zenimax their money. Bug fixes and the like are definitely important, but they just don't have as high of an ROI as stuff that actually gets added to the game. Players aren't going to flock to an update where the main advertising point is "we fixed a lot of bugs", since 90% of the game works fine or well enough (Yes, you can argue that part of that 10% is fundamentally broken. But the point remains that the game as a whole mostly works).

Stuff like lorebooks not showing up in Eidetic Memory or NPC speaking animations being wonky is annoying, yes, but it's not important in the long run, so it waits until a major patch, whereas stuff like main zone quests that are bugged in a manner that prevents completion are pushed up the priority pipeline and usually get faster fixes in an incremental.

I think it's a combination of not having the resources/Zenimax Media focusing more on content delivery than improving on what's already there. It's not a terrible decision from a business perspective, but it's definitely discouraging for players if they feel like their concerns are ignored. And sure, some of the issues addressed time and again have been in need of love for a long amount of time, please don't think I'm blindly defending all of their decisions. However I think the vast majority of their developers want to fix the bugs as much as we want them to be fixed. It's just not a productive use of time to get the art team to try to fix the lag in Cyrodiil. :P

I have to agree with this. In almost all MMO’s “Content is King”. Many gamers have the attention span of two or three months at most, and if you don’t keep them entertained, they will just go to another game that does. That’s one of the reasons ZOS throws in a special event once in awhile between updates, to keep us busy. Sure, I would like to see ZOS spend more time on bugs and QOL stuff we have been begging for (Guild structure, housing, UI improvements, the list goes on......), but they have to keep their shareholders happy with new players as well as keeping some of the old. Although I would have to say they haven’t done a stellar job of the latter considering some of the unwanted balance changes they have made recently.

Girl_Number8

Yes I'd rather have quality over quantity

Yes, yes, and YeS

Wait I want both....hire more plp

Ydrisselle

Ashtaris wrote: »

rhapsodious wrote: »

I think almost of the base would prefer quality over quantity, but their investors and stakeholders think differently. They want new content that makes money so that they're convinced to continue giving Zenimax their money. Bug fixes and the like are definitely important, but they just don't have as high of an ROI as stuff that actually gets added to the game. Players aren't going to flock to an update where the main advertising point is "we fixed a lot of bugs", since 90% of the game works fine or well enough (Yes, you can argue that part of that 10% is fundamentally broken. But the point remains that the game as a whole mostly works).

Stuff like lorebooks not showing up in Eidetic Memory or NPC speaking animations being wonky is annoying, yes, but it's not important in the long run, so it waits until a major patch, whereas stuff like main zone quests that are bugged in a manner that prevents completion are pushed up the priority pipeline and usually get faster fixes in an incremental.

I think it's a combination of not having the resources/Zenimax Media focusing more on content delivery than improving on what's already there. It's not a terrible decision from a business perspective, but it's definitely discouraging for players if they feel like their concerns are ignored. And sure, some of the issues addressed time and again have been in need of love for a long amount of time, please don't think I'm blindly defending all of their decisions. However I think the vast majority of their developers want to fix the bugs as much as we want them to be fixed. It's just not a productive use of time to get the art team to try to fix the lag in Cyrodiil. :P

I have to agree with this. In almost all MMO’s “Content is King”. Many gamers have the attention span of two or three months at most, and if you don’t keep them entertained, they will just go to another game that does. That’s one of the reasons ZOS throws in a special event once in awhile between updates, to keep us busy. Sure, I would like to see ZOS spend more time on bugs and QOL stuff we have been begging for (Guild structure, housing, UI improvements, the list goes on......), but they have to keep their shareholders happy with new players as well as keeping some of the old. Although I would have to say they haven’t done a stellar job of the latter considering some of the unwanted balance changes they have made recently.

Don't forget one little thing: if an MMO doesn't have new content, it's dead. One or two updates in a year definitely means "this game is starting to die, we don't even make anything for the players since there are almost none". Just look at the MMOs in maintenance mode...

While the fixes for bugs are important, it has to be done in balance with the new content. Different people are working on different aspects of an MMO, but the same people are fixing bugs in a particular system that are working on new things. Like the team which is making the new dungeons' mobs and bosses are responsible for the bugfixing of the existing dungeons' population too. Bugs are annoying, I agree with that - however fixing bugs and sacrificing new shinies for that is generally a bad idea. (yes, it's the same bad idea if a team is just pushing new shinies out and doeesn't bother to fix the old ones' problems)

Apache_Kid

Yes I'd rather have quality over quantity

Ydrisselle wrote: »

Ashtaris wrote: »

rhapsodious wrote: »

I think almost of the base would prefer quality over quantity, but their investors and stakeholders think differently. They want new content that makes money so that they're convinced to continue giving Zenimax their money. Bug fixes and the like are definitely important, but they just don't have as high of an ROI as stuff that actually gets added to the game. Players aren't going to flock to an update where the main advertising point is "we fixed a lot of bugs", since 90% of the game works fine or well enough (Yes, you can argue that part of that 10% is fundamentally broken. But the point remains that the game as a whole mostly works).

Stuff like lorebooks not showing up in Eidetic Memory or NPC speaking animations being wonky is annoying, yes, but it's not important in the long run, so it waits until a major patch, whereas stuff like main zone quests that are bugged in a manner that prevents completion are pushed up the priority pipeline and usually get faster fixes in an incremental.

I think it's a combination of not having the resources/Zenimax Media focusing more on content delivery than improving on what's already there. It's not a terrible decision from a business perspective, but it's definitely discouraging for players if they feel like their concerns are ignored. And sure, some of the issues addressed time and again have been in need of love for a long amount of time, please don't think I'm blindly defending all of their decisions. However I think the vast majority of their developers want to fix the bugs as much as we want them to be fixed. It's just not a productive use of time to get the art team to try to fix the lag in Cyrodiil. :P

I have to agree with this. In almost all MMO’s “Content is King”. Many gamers have the attention span of two or three months at most, and if you don’t keep them entertained, they will just go to another game that does. That’s one of the reasons ZOS throws in a special event once in awhile between updates, to keep us busy. Sure, I would like to see ZOS spend more time on bugs and QOL stuff we have been begging for (Guild structure, housing, UI improvements, the list goes on......), but they have to keep their shareholders happy with new players as well as keeping some of the old. Although I would have to say they haven’t done a stellar job of the latter considering some of the unwanted balance changes they have made recently.

Don't forget one little thing: if an MMO doesn't have new content, it's dead. One or two updates in a year definitely means "this game is starting to die, we don't even make anything for the players since there are almost none". Just look at the MMOs in maintenance mode...

While the fixes for bugs are important, it has to be done in balance with the new content. Different people are working on different aspects of an MMO, but the same people are fixing bugs in a particular system that are working on new things. Like the team which is making the new dungeons' mobs and bosses are responsible for the bugfixing of the existing dungeons' population too. Bugs are annoying, I agree with that - however fixing bugs and sacrificing new shinies for that is generally a bad idea. (yes, it's the same bad idea if a team is just pushing new shinies out and doeesn't bother to fix the old ones' problems)

There are so many difficult acheivments every time they release new dungeons and trials that I'm still working on ones from a year ago. They just keep releasing more and myself and other players will never be able to catch up with the difficulty level of some of the acheivments. There's enough content at this point to take a break to fix bugs and issues

Vaoh

Yes I'd rather have quality over quantity

rhapsodious wrote: »

I think almost of the base would prefer quality over quantity, but their investors and stakeholders think differently. They want new content that makes money so that they're convinced to continue giving Zenimax their money. Bug fixes and the like are definitely important, but they just don't have as high of an ROI as stuff that actually gets added to the game. Players aren't going to flock to an update where the main advertising point is "we fixed a lot of bugs", since 90% of the game works fine or well enough (Yes, you can argue that part of that 10% is fundamentally broken. But the point remains that the game as a whole mostly works).

Stuff like lorebooks not showing up in Eidetic Memory or NPC speaking animations being wonky is annoying, yes, but it's not important in the long run, so it waits until a major patch, whereas stuff like main zone quests that are bugged in a manner that prevents completion are pushed up the priority pipeline and usually get faster fixes in an incremental.

I think it's a combination of not having the resources/Zenimax Media focusing more on content delivery than improving on what's already there. It's not a terrible decision from a business perspective, but it's definitely discouraging for players if they feel like their concerns are ignored. And sure, some of the issues addressed time and again have been in need of love for a long amount of time, please don't think I'm blindly defending all of their decisions. However I think the vast majority of their developers want to fix the bugs as much as we want them to be fixed. It's just not a productive use of time to get the art team to try to fix the lag in Cyrodiil. :P

The reason people are so angry at the bugs in ESO is because they are often things that get broken (not broken in the past) and then take a year or longer to fix *if* fixed at all. How long since Radiant Oppression was broken and ruined Magplar DPS in PvE? Sweeps is still broken and in an even worse state currently on PTS. Bolt Escape and gapclosers were broken once but only bandaid fixed (rip non-teleport gapclosers). Warden's Swarm needed to switch from a Direct Damage skill to a DoT yet it's getting fixed next patch.... over half a year for a fix that takes probably a few minutes on their end. How about group finder, which has been neglected for years and came right back at ZOS since BGs relied on it, ruining the launch experience and permanently hurting the BG population.... there's a very, very long list of unbelievable issues. Many of these things break entire classes for certain roles or drastically hurt entire parts of the game.

Most of the complained about bugs are extremely gamebreaking, yet the priority on them is minimal and they're always lazily fixed (Bat Swarm.... removed invisibility morph as a "fix" for it -_-). ZOS rarely just fixes stuff without changing the functionality of something. That's why we always say ZOS does "bandaid fixes", since they often won't directly fix an issue, but rather find a workaround to save time. The problem is that issues are then only partially fixed and will more likely spring up in the future just as badly. Not a good way to fix a game which has plans to keep going for a long time.

In the case of almost any other game, I'd agree with you that content brings in players as opposed to "we fixed a lot of bugs".

However, ESO lost a huge amount of its players (mainly PvP players and PvE Trial runners) due to that very reason. Remember how heavily populated Cyrodiil used to be? ESO used to have significantly better game performance than it currently does. Thousands of players played on a campaign at a time with battles between hundreds of players, yet nowadays a 50v50-player battle causes enormous lag and campaign populations are dramatically lower. I get like 5-10FPS fighting against 4th boss vHoF using my PS4 Pro ffs.

I heard that it was the Lighting Patch that apparently ruined ESO's performance. Dark Brotherhood was the patch that ruined ESO's animations and made everything more clunky. Whatever it was, if ZOS took a chapter to FIX IT, that would be waaaaaaaaaaaaay better than any new zone. Call it the "Cyrodiil Overhaul" chapter or whatever and just return Cyrodiil to what it used to be. PvP is such a mess and PvE trials suffer from similar issues.

At launch it was the absolutely amazing PvP that everyone loved and played ESO for, not the buggy PvE. Things have completely turned around the horrible game performance is ESO's #1 issue

Apache_Kid

Yes I'd rather have quality over quantity

Vaoh wrote: »

rhapsodious wrote: »

I think almost of the base would prefer quality over quantity, but their investors and stakeholders think differently. They want new content that makes money so that they're convinced to continue giving Zenimax their money. Bug fixes and the like are definitely important, but they just don't have as high of an ROI as stuff that actually gets added to the game. Players aren't going to flock to an update where the main advertising point is "we fixed a lot of bugs", since 90% of the game works fine or well enough (Yes, you can argue that part of that 10% is fundamentally broken. But the point remains that the game as a whole mostly works).

Stuff like lorebooks not showing up in Eidetic Memory or NPC speaking animations being wonky is annoying, yes, but it's not important in the long run, so it waits until a major patch, whereas stuff like main zone quests that are bugged in a manner that prevents completion are pushed up the priority pipeline and usually get faster fixes in an incremental.

I think it's a combination of not having the resources/Zenimax Media focusing more on content delivery than improving on what's already there. It's not a terrible decision from a business perspective, but it's definitely discouraging for players if they feel like their concerns are ignored. And sure, some of the issues addressed time and again have been in need of love for a long amount of time, please don't think I'm blindly defending all of their decisions. However I think the vast majority of their developers want to fix the bugs as much as we want them to be fixed. It's just not a productive use of time to get the art team to try to fix the lag in Cyrodiil. :P

The reason people are so angry at the bugs in ESO is because they are often things that get broken (not broken in the past) and then take a year or longer to fix *if* fixed at all. How long since Radiant Oppression was broken and ruined Magplar DPS in PvE? Sweeps is still broken and in an even worse state currently on PTS. Bolt Escape and gapclosers were broken once but only bandaid fixed (rip non-teleport gapclosers). Warden's Swarm needed to switch from a Direct Damage skill to a DoT yet it's getting fixed next patch.... over half a year for a fix that takes probably a few minutes on their end. How about group finder, which has been neglected for years and came right back at ZOS since BGs relied on it, ruining the launch experience and permanently hurting the BG population.... there's a very, very long list of unbelievable issues. Many of these things break entire classes for certain roles or drastically hurt entire parts of the game.

Most of the complained about bugs are extremely gamebreakinig, yet the priority on them is minimal and they're always lazily fixed (Bat Swarm.... removed invisibility morph as a "fix" for it -_-). ZOS rarely just fixes stuff without changing the functionality of something. That's why we always say ZOS does "bandaid fixes", sine they often won't directly fix an issue, but rather find a workaround to save time. The problem is that issues are then only partially fixed and will more likely spring up in the future just as badly. Not a good way to fix a game which has plans to keep going for a long time.

In the case of almost any other game, I'd agree with you that content brings in players as opposed to "we fixed a lot of bugs".

However, ESO lost a huge amount of its players (mainly PvPplayers and PvE Trial runners) due to that very reason. Remember how heavily populated Cyrodiil used to be? Game performance is the thing that need fixing. ESO used to have significantly better game performance. Thousands of players played on a campaign at a time with battles between hundreds of players, yet nowadays a 50v50-player battle causes enormous lag and campaign populations are dramatically lower. I get like 5-10FPS fighting against 4th boss vHoF using my PS4 Pro ffs.

I heard that it was the Lighting Patch that apparently ruined ESO's performance. Dark Brotherhood was the patch that ruined ESO's animations and made everything more clunky. Whatever it was, if ZOS took a chapter to FIX IT, that would be waaaaaaaaaaaaay better than any new zone. Call it the "Cyrodiil Overhaul"l chapter or whatever and just return Cyrodiil to what it used to be. PvP is such a mess and PvE trials suffer from similar issues.

ALL OF THIS

NewBlacksmurf

Yes I'd rather have quality over quantity

SodanTok wrote: »

People resolving bugs aren't the same people making dungeons. Possible one of the reason why are dungeons separating the bigger content DLCs.

@SodanTok
So that comment was thrown around a lot even by myself but what we've learned is the folks that engage with the public are one in the same. I think we all comprehend that that are different humans involved but the leaders aren't different humans.

When you watch years of ESO Live you start to gather an understanding on who makes decisions and where focus goes. The Dungeon Lead, Combat Lead, Lore master, Animation team, Artwork Team, ESO Plus folks, etc. are different people but the bugs, broken items are literally in one or multiple categories so its actually the people who need to fix the issue but they are working on new content.

The guys and ladies who approve to release broken items are not necessarily the ones who may work to recreate the issues to better understand them, however the folks who need to fix the content are in some cases one in the same. One specific example is the xbox one broken Trial that crashed and got folks stuck for over 6 months.

That team....now we learn was working on a new trial. Prob could've stopped that and looked aat resolving the issue but instead they just had a new team add anew tracking method.

This is what we are discussing...does that make it align better?

rhapsodious

Vaoh wrote: »

[Good post, but trying to not clog up the page]

Again, please don't think that I'm saying "the game is fine, quit your whining" or excusing the bugs that exist, because I'm absolutely not. I disconnected no fewer than five times doing a Craglorn HM tour on Sunday and I also regularly get the performance tank on the triplets. Not to mention the performance mess that's the Rakkhat fight. Invisible damage, invisible damage everywhere! I've had many "ffs are you kidding me" moments in all the content types that were entirely game-related issues. So I know where you're coming from and completely agree that performance in instances where it matters is a big issue.

The turnaround time on stuff like sweeps/jesus beam scaling is, IMO, not acceptable. I'd be really put off if I mained a templar. (I mean, I main a NB, so I know how it feels to have skills just flat-out not work at least ¯\_(ツ)_/¯)

BUT, it's ultimately a small part of the game. A very significant part, but a small part. Most of the game system isn't affected by these bugs, so they're probably not a high priority in the grand scheme of things. Investors don't care if Shadow Image works, they care about publicity, if more people are buying the game, subscribing, or spending money on the newest offerings in the Crown Store. People looking to buy the game are more likely to care that they can visit Morrowind again than if all their skills scale properly. It sucks if you want to run lag-free trials or have huge AvA battles in Cyro, but evidently the gain in players outweighs the amount of people who leave for the outstanding issues.

I'm no less peeved than the next guy that bugs that have been in the game for months or years are still there, or get even worse. I just don't think they'd be able to get away with a major bugfix patch unless they dedicate an update to a new feature and use the other "half" of the update to focus on bugs and improvements.

dotme

Yes I'd rather have quality over quantity

The poll numbers on this thread speaks volumes. Anyone listening?

NewBlacksmurf

Yes I'd rather have quality over quantity

Ydrisselle wrote: »

Ashtaris wrote: »

rhapsodious wrote: »

I think almost of the base would prefer quality over quantity, but their investors and stakeholders think differently. They want new content that makes money so that they're convinced to continue giving Zenimax their money. Bug fixes and the like are definitely important, but they just don't have as high of an ROI as stuff that actually gets added to the game. Players aren't going to flock to an update where the main advertising point is "we fixed a lot of bugs", since 90% of the game works fine or well enough (Yes, you can argue that part of that 10% is fundamentally broken. But the point remains that the game as a whole mostly works).

Stuff like lorebooks not showing up in Eidetic Memory or NPC speaking animations being wonky is annoying, yes, but it's not important in the long run, so it waits until a major patch, whereas stuff like main zone quests that are bugged in a manner that prevents completion are pushed up the priority pipeline and usually get faster fixes in an incremental.

I think it's a combination of not having the resources/Zenimax Media focusing more on content delivery than improving on what's already there. It's not a terrible decision from a business perspective, but it's definitely discouraging for players if they feel like their concerns are ignored. And sure, some of the issues addressed time and again have been in need of love for a long amount of time, please don't think I'm blindly defending all of their decisions. However I think the vast majority of their developers want to fix the bugs as much as we want them to be fixed. It's just not a productive use of time to get the art team to try to fix the lag in Cyrodiil. :P

I have to agree with this. In almost all MMO’s “Content is King”. Many gamers have the attention span of two or three months at most, and if you don’t keep them entertained, they will just go to another game that does. That’s one of the reasons ZOS throws in a special event once in awhile between updates, to keep us busy. Sure, I would like to see ZOS spend more time on bugs and QOL stuff we have been begging for (Guild structure, housing, UI improvements, the list goes on......), but they have to keep their shareholders happy with new players as well as keeping some of the old. Although I would have to say they haven’t done a stellar job of the latter considering some of the unwanted balance changes they have made recently.

Don't forget one little thing: if an MMO doesn't have new content, it's dead. One or two updates in a year definitely means "this game is starting to die, we don't even make anything for the players since there are almost none". Just look at the MMOs in maintenance mode...

While the fixes for bugs are important, it has to be done in balance with the new content. Different people are working on different aspects of an MMO, but the same people are fixing bugs in a particular system that are working on new things. Like the team which is making the new dungeons' mobs and bosses are responsible for the bugfixing of the existing dungeons' population too. Bugs are annoying, I agree with that - however fixing bugs and sacrificing new shinies for that is generally a bad idea. (yes, it's the same bad idea if a team is just pushing new shinies out and doeesn't bother to fix the old ones' problems)

Everyone keeps saying this....and I did as well but lets look at the team.
Is it not the same folks (leaders at least), I believe it is.

They dont' have a Dungeon bug team lead, a combat bug team lead, a artwork bug team lead that differs from the new content team leads. If the process is to send the bugs created by one team to another who didn't work on the issues caused in the first place....then that's a BIG issue.

The bug folks should be on the same team, not seperate thus the poll question...quality over quantity

Tandor

I'm happy to have both quality and quantity, they are looked after by different teams after all, as they should be given that they require different skills. Plus, I don't have any quality issues anyway so the rate of content delivery is fine by me.