Stamblade tanking: What do you think of this build?

ZeroXFF · January 2018

So I recently made a new stamblade whose primary role will be DPS, but I don't always have the patience to wait in the queue for dungeons, so I tried to come up with a setup that would allow me to be an effective tank (=one that is able to do HM DLC dungeons) without switching anything except gear and abilities. I can't test it properly yet, because most skills aren't leveled, but here is something I came up with that looks viable in theory, and I would like to know your thoughts on this:

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=39479

***

Here are some of the reasons for why I picked some of the things:
- Fortified Brass allows me to make every piece of armor sturdy and use something other than defending on weapons while still reaching armor cap.

- Witchman is kinda experimental, but the 5p allows me to regenerate stamina without dropping block, and because it also results in 2p medium armor, the dodge roll cost is reduced by 8%, which can also be helpful sometimes.

- 1p Shadowrend + 1p Chokethorn is for magicka regeneration, because without the extra help on that front I won't have enough magicka to keep up Refreshing Path (which also gives me the major armor buff) and Mirrage (which gives major evasion and the minor armor buff). I was also considering Engine Guardian, but while it would help a lot with stamina, my magicka pool is too small to wait for the right proc, so I figured that passive magicka regen would be better here.

- Structured Entropy is slotted for the 8% extra health, because that's what this setup sorely lacks, since there are 0 attribute points in health.

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Strengths I see in this setup:
- Very good stamina regeneration, even while holding block
- Huge stamina pool
- Good magicka regeneration
- Armor capped
- Good ultimate regeneration

Weaknesses:
- Comparatively low HP
- Very weak AoE damage
- Very weak CC

***

Possible modifications I'll be trying if I'm not happy with the setup after playing with it for a while:
- Replace 1 or 2 ring enchants with stamina cost reduction and/or magicka regen. This depends on how well I will be able to manage resources on a NB, how often I use Vigor and whether I find an interesting and useful monster set.

- Replace the weapon enchants with magicka regeneration. This again depends on whether I will find an interesting monster set.

- Replace Defensive Stance with Invigorating Drain (vampire skill). This is situational (depends on whether I will have time to channel a spell for 3 seconds), but it could significantly improve ultimate and health regeneration.

- Replace Leeching Strikes or Structured Entropy on 2nd bar with Power Extraction if lack of AoE turns out to be a bigger concern than regen or max. HP.

- If the lack of CC and AoE turns out to be a big problem, I might switch to a bow on 2nd bar for Bombard with its spammable 3s immobilization.

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So what do you guys think of this?

SmellyUnlimited · January 2018

As it stands now, Witchman wont give you an incredible amount of resources back. You’d have to cast your ult quite a bit to make it worthwhile, and unfortunately, Soul Harvest will only give you ultimate if you get the killing blow.

The NB tank really depends on your ability to sustain yourself over the damage you take. Without a class ward, you will heavily rely on Funnel Health, Sap Essence, and Refreshing Path. Echoing Vigor if you still need it, but the other 3 should be sufficient (for most vet dungeons).

The entire purpose of a NB tank is to play to their strengths, namely providing damage output in addition tanking. You shouldn’t be sitting there holding block as a NB tank. In fact, you’ll be casting almost nonstop. Your siphon abilities will give you a good amount of ultimate back, but I think you’d find more utility in a set that can damage and heal simultaneously. Bahara’s, Leeching, or my personal favorite, Resilient Yokeda from AA.

I’ve often though about doing a 5piece light armor Fortified Brass. You get the resistances, but can make your tanking arguably more effective by adding Magicka regen/spell pen (and Annulment for a decent shield spell).

Just a thought. I’m interested though where this goes since I still really want my NB to be a competitive tank also. You’ll have to let us know about Witchman. I’d think perhaps with the siphoning passive, and maybe coupled with Shootjng Star for the sheer amount of trash mobs in a lot of dungeons, may make it viable.

ccfeeling · January 2018

In eso pve, tank blocks a lot even Zos doesnt encourage but they design a lot 1 shot deadly mechanics, what they suppose n what they do are opposite lol
NB weaks at sustain during blocking unless u play the easy vdun which actually no tank required or u believe something tatical blocking lol
Your setup is ok, but u need 3 awesome teammates

One day u will realize why most of the tanks are dk n warden, its all about the combination of active and passive skills to keep endless blocking, they can tank well without support

Test Your build vdun HM below 1 by 1
Icp, cos,wgt, rom,fb,bf

Tigeracer · January 2018

I’ve been playing a Stamblade since beta (pc/na) and just like you, I’m mainly a dps, but tank too.

You’re going about it all wrong. What’s the point of being a STAMBLADE if you’re using magic?

Look me up online, if you’re on pc/na, I can give you some pointers.

I am actually able to tank in vet trials, though I do have a very good guild backing me up. Keep in mind, im not the guild’s main tank, but fill in when the main tank is unable to join in.

Currently I use:

5x Leeching (sword and shield)
5x Ebon
2x Swarm mother (for trash) or
1x Warden and 1x Chudan (for bosses)

Infused on big pieces and shield, sturdy on everything else.

Bars look like this:

Sword and shield - pierce armour, vigor, mirage, absorb magicka, leeching strikes, veil of blades

Two handed - inner fire, cleave, caltrops, rally, shadow image, war horn

Happy to answer any questions here or online.

ZeroXFF · January 2018

@SmellyUnlimited
I don't like the "resources on enemy death" mechanic anyways, because there are plenty of fights where there aren't enough enemies to make them useful, so I will definitely not use Soul Harvest in its current form for tanking, even if all deaths counted. I don't need to be good on trash, I have to be good on bosses, and sadly those mechanics are creating the exact opposite effect.

Your other suggestions would work great....... if I used a magblade. Funnel Health heals for a whooping 3k over 10 seconds, and sap essence heals for an amazing 0.5k at the cost of 1/3 of my magicka bar. The regen from Refreshing Path is only slightly less laughable (just over 4k over 10 seconds), but I'm primarily using it to trigger the Shadow Barrier passive (which would not work with either of the other mentioned skills). I am trying to play to the strengths of my character, which is anything that has to do with stamina. I don't think that the sap tank approach would work well for the stated purpose (tanking as a secondary, easy to switch to on demand role for a stamblade DD). But if I'm wrong, I'd love to hear, why.

As for Witchman, yeah, it's not particularly great, but the only other set I can think of that would return stamina while blocking is Bloodthorn's Touch (which I am using on my magplar tank, where it definitely makes sense), but that would come at a cost to health which I need very much, and weapon damage that boosts my main attacks and my main heal (vigor). I may be wrong, but I really don't think it's worth it.

@ccfeeling
I have a DK and a Templar tank, and I do plan on making a dedicated Warden tank sometime, where I do focus on being as good at tanking as I can be, but with this char I want to be as good at DPS as I can, and in regards to tanking I'll be satisfied with "just barely good enough to not be blamed for wipes in vet HM dungeons". And as you might guess from me having a Templar tank, I have quite a bit of experience with tactical blocking and well timed heavy attacks, so Leeching Strikes + 28k stamina actually make the whole process sound trivial in comparison.

***

And yeah, I will update this thread when I've had the hands-on experience with NB tanking. But it'll be a couple months, because I lack about 150 skill points to get the abilities I need, and most of the abilities aren't even leveled yet, even the ones I did get already. Until then I'd still like to hear other suggestions on how to improve (within the stated parameters), at least theoretically.

SmellyUnlimited · January 2018

@ZeroXFF

I didn’t take into account the wanting to switch roles. Yeah that would make the Sap build none too viable.

Sadly, the NB just doesn’t have nearly as good a tanking passives as DK’s or Wardens. They have a couple, but IMO, those favor a Magicka-based NB tank over Stam. Mainly because the ulti generation from the Siphoning line.

On a Magicka build, that Sap Essence, Funnel Health, and Refreshing is quite strong. I’ve kept my group healed in VMazz when the healer went down by just using those, and Veil of Blades. You still use stamina of course (Pierce, Absorb Magicka, blocking). In fact, I use Leeching Strikes for that reason.

Anyway, just a thought. I like trying to find ways to make the non-traditonal roles be viable. I’m changing my Mag Sorc to a tank, so doing the same sorta testing as you are with the NB. If you, or any other NB’s have been successful tanking trials, I’d definitely like to hear about it. That’s the one area that I don’t know if NB’s can really handle.

ZeroXFF · January 2018

@Tigeracer
Ok, so I replicated your build as closely as I could with a few liberties in regards to things that weren't quite clear. If I did anything terribly wrong, do point it out.
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=39566

It does look better than my setup, more heals, more HP, more damage, with the only noteworthy loss being the magicka regen. I'm not sure about Leeching set though. Is it really that good? What about Akaviri Dragonguard or Tava's Favor?

What’s the point of being a STAMBLADE if you’re using magic?

Judging by the skills you use, I only use it a little bit more than you in my original setup. I use Refreshing Path and Mirage for the armor buffs and you use Shadow Image instead of Refreshing Path which is slightly cheaper. With your setup one has to use Shadow Image at least once every 16,5 seconds and Mirage every 26 seconds. That results in a magicka usage of at least 598 per 2s. I guess it works if you're always refreshing in the last second, but it seems awfully close to the 642 magicka recovery, and I have no idea how you can squeeze in an Inner Fire for the odd add you might have to pick up from a distance. Or are you using its stamina morph?

Also, while I was looking at alternatives to the Leeching set, I came across this beauty. With that instead of leeching the heal would be much more reliable than the 8% chance on damage taken from the Leeching set, considering that our pet should be up 100% of the time, and the increased block cost from having Reinforced/Nirnhoned pieces would easily be offset by the ~450 extra stamina regen (while blocking). With 1p Shadowrend instead of Lord Warden I'd get enough magicka regen to be able to afford the occasional mistake in the heat of the battle, and all I really lose compared to your original setup is some ultimate regen (can't afford a decisive weapon trait with this setup) and about 2.6k HP.

Thoughts?

P.S. I'm in Europe, so I probably can't join you in game. Thanks for the offer though.

Tasear · January 2018

Well I actually have a one of these. Well it's questionable if mine is good, but did have some ideas.

You could use shades to avoid one hit or disappear for a moment so boss is cluless where you are.

Hysteria to light taunt a group of adds. After teleporting into them.

The 2nd could give you an heal or ability to slow eniemies. Also asylum 2nd for ultimate.

Also gap closer with 2 hander witch works with torrementor set.

My ideas

exeeter702 · January 2018

Hunt leader is actually not a bad choice if you want to run shades which works out to around 490 stam recovery and 900ish health recovery. This just means you will have to run cleave for your minor heroism as runinf heroic slash is a bit reduntant with shades offering minor maim.

If you dont want to run hunt, try witchmans with tavas + bloodspawn. Just make sure to hit power extraction every 4 seconds for maximum uptime on transfer passive. Witchman is essentially a baby battleroar (albiet with a stronger hp heal and no magicka).

Nb tanks are unique now in that they are the only tank in the game with access to major evasion outside of histbark which frankly is trash. Or if you healer runs gossimer which is not common. So nb tanks can make use of tavas.

As far as vet hm dlc dungeons, i have had no issues tanking them in pugs with my stam nb tank running tavas, bs, witchman, primarily blowing horn or veil.

Tigeracer · January 2018

ZeroXFF wrote: »

@Tigeracer
Ok, so I replicated your build as closely as I could with a few liberties in regards to things that weren't quite clear. If I did anything terribly wrong, do point it out.
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=39566

It does look better than my setup, more heals, more HP, more damage, with the only noteworthy loss being the magicka regen. I'm not sure about Leeching set though. Is it really that good? What about Akaviri Dragonguard or Tava's Favor?

What’s the point of being a STAMBLADE if you’re using magic?

Judging by the skills you use, I only use it a little bit more than you in my original setup. I use Refreshing Path and Mirage for the armor buffs and you use Shadow Image instead of Refreshing Path which is slightly cheaper. With your setup one has to use Shadow Image at least once every 16,5 seconds and Mirage every 26 seconds. That results in a magicka usage of at least 598 per 2s. I guess it works if you're always refreshing in the last second, but it seems awfully close to the 642 magicka recovery, and I have no idea how you can squeeze in an Inner Fire for the odd add you might have to pick up from a distance. Or are you using its stamina morph?

Also, while I was looking at alternatives to the Leeching set, I came across this beauty. With that instead of leeching the heal would be much more reliable than the 8% chance on damage taken from the Leeching set, considering that our pet should be up 100% of the time, and the increased block cost from having Reinforced/Nirnhoned pieces would easily be offset by the ~450 extra stamina regen (while blocking). With 1p Shadowrend instead of Lord Warden I'd get enough magicka regen to be able to afford the occasional mistake in the heat of the battle, and all I really lose compared to your original setup is some ultimate regen (can't afford a decisive weapon trait with this setup) and about 2.6k HP.

Thoughts?

P.S. I'm in Europe, so I probably can't join you in game. Thanks for the offer though.

Hunt leader would be a great alternative to leeching, though leeching does help when there are lots of adds. Does hunt leader come in a shield? If so I might try it out myself! Otherwise, you will have to wear at least one piece of medium, which will lower your health, health recovery, healing and resistance slightly. Not the end of the world, but something to think about.

I definitely use the magicka version of inner fire, just in case I’m out of stam. Tri potions or trash magicka pots will keep your magicka high enough, if necessary, though I mainly use stam pots (because I have too many).

Sucks that we aren’t on the same server, but I’m sure you’ll get enough info from this thread.

Looking forward to seeing what you end up with.