Optimal Veteran Dungeons Tank

Deltrox

Tank builds are so often tailored to veteran trials, I've been messing around with making a ideal vet dungeons tank. Normal things that make armor sets so good in trials doesn't exactly carry over to dungeons. For instance ebon and torugs loss a ton of efficiency because they're only affecting 2 or 3 players, instead of 10-11. My current build is:

Blood Spawn

• Resistances are nice
• Ulti gen is great because war horn is going to have a naturally low uptime in dungeons

Livewire

• Concussion uptime in dungeons is meh at best
• Nearly 50% concussion uptime from Livewire

Hand of Mephala

• Good damage (up to 5k DPS just from this set)
• Minor Fracture (Very rare debuff)
• Outperforms Torugs with 2 non-templar stam DPS
• Nearly worthless with 2 mag DPS (Could be replaced with Thunderbug or Alkosh)

Tristat Food
Tristat Pots
Argonian
DK
Atronach Mundus

What are all of your thoughts on making a tank build specifically for dungeons?

RavenSworn

I use Imperium and Lich for my mag warden tank. Tried Magnus too for the offset piece but rng gods weren't that good for me. Also I've played around with Plague doctor and Warrior poet for health based builds since this is more self sufficient than group sufficient sets.

played with Twin sister, Leeching Plate and Swarm Mothers on my Stam nb. Fun shenanigans in group dungeons. Tava's Favour? I've yet to use Hagraven or the Reach sets to comment on it.

Maura_Neysa

PuG or dedicated group? PuG I run selfish
Plague-most health
Desert Rose - most magic regen = best able to recover from waste management via fan.
Lord Warden- Blood's | piece is useless. its only slightly less resistance for me but 5k for the group and I rarely use my War Horn outside boss fights so I don't need the ulti gen

For my skin runs
Plague - Gets me to 40k H, 20k S, 14k M, 1700 M recovery with Orzaga's Red Frothgar (with this I'm complete self sustaining if things go side ways.
Alkosh - Group gave me the synergies to make it worth it. More DPS and bigger de buff than what you listed.
Lord Warden -5k is nearly 10% damage reduction for the group. Yes its small area, but worth while since the radius buff.

raaphor

Deltrox wrote: »

What are all of your thoughts on making a tank build specifically for dungeons?

I usually wear Plague Doctor or Ebon combined with Bahraha's curse in dungeons. Monster set can vary depending on the group or dungeon I'm in, usually Lord Warden.

I'm levelling an argonian Templar atm that I will try to run as a healer/tank for normal dungeons. He will probably wear Kagrenac's Hope or Spell Power Cure with Bahraha's Curse.

code65536

Always run Ebon.

raj72616a

does livewire really peform that well for concussion?
if so i might try to use that set along with war machine set on my stamplar tank for non DLC dungeons

Liofa

Ebon/Alkosh/Lord Warden . While tanking pledges , what I do is this . Run to boss from start . Pull everything that still follows you to boss . Pop a synergy for Alkosh . Everyone drops ultimates with warhorn . Protect team from getting bursted down with Lord Warden and Ebon . Kill boss . Run to next boss . Repeat until dungeon is over . 5-15 minutes clear time depending on which dungeon .

raj72616a

Liofa wrote: »

Ebon/Alkosh/Lord Warden . While tanking pledges , what I do is this . Run to boss from start . Pull everything that still follows you to boss . Pop a synergy for Alkosh . Everyone drops ultimates with warhorn . Protect team from getting bursted down with Lord Warden and Ebon . Kill boss . Run to next boss . Repeat until dungeon is over . 5-15 minutes clear time depending on which dungeon .

great for a coordinated group.
in pug they yell at you for running ahead then vote kick you.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

raj72616a wrote: »

Liofa wrote: »

Ebon/Alkosh/Lord Warden . While tanking pledges , what I do is this . Run to boss from start . Pull everything that still follows you to boss . Pop a synergy for Alkosh . Everyone drops ultimates with warhorn . Protect team from getting bursted down with Lord Warden and Ebon . Kill boss . Run to next boss . Repeat until dungeon is over . 5-15 minutes clear time depending on which dungeon .

great for a coordinated group.
in pug they yell at you for running ahead then vote kick you.

Lol voting to kick tank. That is rich.

Maura_Neysa

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

raj72616a wrote: »

Liofa wrote: »

Ebon/Alkosh/Lord Warden . While tanking pledges , what I do is this . Run to boss from start . Pull everything that still follows you to boss . Pop a synergy for Alkosh . Everyone drops ultimates with warhorn . Protect team from getting bursted down with Lord Warden and Ebon . Kill boss . Run to next boss . Repeat until dungeon is over . 5-15 minutes clear time depending on which dungeon .

great for a coordinated group.
in pug they yell at you for running ahead then vote kick you.

Lol voting to kick tank. That is rich.

Yep they'll do that. I personally would vote in favor. That kind of thing is annoying to me, and yes I main a Tank, and yes I understand why people do that. Go for it, l wouldn't iniate the vote, just vote in favor if someone else did.

boombazookajd

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

raj72616a wrote: »

Liofa wrote: »

Ebon/Alkosh/Lord Warden . While tanking pledges , what I do is this . Run to boss from start . Pull everything that still follows you to boss . Pop a synergy for Alkosh . Everyone drops ultimates with warhorn . Protect team from getting bursted down with Lord Warden and Ebon . Kill boss . Run to next boss . Repeat until dungeon is over . 5-15 minutes clear time depending on which dungeon .

great for a coordinated group.
in pug they yell at you for running ahead then vote kick you.

Lol voting to kick tank. That is rich.

Yep they'll do that. I personally would vote in favor. That kind of thing is annoying to me, and yes I main a Tank, and yes I understand why people do that. Go for it, l wouldn't iniate the vote, just vote in favor if someone else did.

I tank too. I hate this method. If you are with your friends and are trying to get a quick daily out of the way, fine whatever lets get it done but this isn't fun and it creates bad players out of the newbies. They think this behavior is normal and I've personally had a few new players complain that a normal run is taking too long "why don't we just run by everything?" they say. Well, because we don't have a CP690 God with us, that's why.

As a tank player, I'm very interested in this thread.

SmellyUnlimited

code65536 wrote: »

Always run Ebon.

Wrong. Any dps worth their salt would gladly sacrifice 1k health for something to increase efficiency. I main a Templar healer, and I have never noticed a difference healing a group that had Ebon buff, to healing a group without it.

Here’s the problem: “theorycrafters” (of which maybe 2 are worth a damn) put BIS for Tank as Ebon/Alkosh. Everyone then just repeats this mantra till no one has an ounce of inquisitiveness - why? (It’s INSANE! Is why!!)

4 man content, with the exception of a few DLC dungeons, is laughably easy. So you want ways to speed up what likely is just an umpteenth run to getting keys or gear. I know, it’s sad that the content is so mind-numbing, but there we have it.

Alkosh ill gladly agree with; the debuff is great. But other options (jewels+SnB) - what about a tank running War Machine, or Sunderflame? Instead of Ebon, why not Resilient Yokeda? Yes it’s magic damage, but the heal is far more reliable than Bahara. Leeching is certainly viable as well. I liked the mention of Thunderbug; on a Sorc tank this is incredible.

TL DR - Be creative. It’s what has always been fun about all the Elder Scrolls games. The game gets incredibly dull without it. PvP has the right idea with this; many novel builds that are fun to use, and effective. Play to the class strengths and test for yourself; don’t let YouTubers rob you of your desire to be different.

Liofa

SmellyUnlimited wrote: »

Wrong. Any dps worth their salt would gladly sacrifice 1k health for something to increase efficiency. I main a Templar healer, and I have never noticed a difference healing a group that had Ebon buff, to healing a group without it.

Ebon has nothing to do with healing . It is there to prevent your teammates from getting one-shotted .

raj72616a wrote: »

great for a coordinated group.
in pug they yell at you for running ahead then vote kick you.

Don't pug . Problem solved .

SmellyUnlimited

Liofa wrote: »

SmellyUnlimited wrote: »

Wrong. Any dps worth their salt would gladly sacrifice 1k health for something to increase efficiency. I main a Templar healer, and I have never noticed a difference healing a group that had Ebon buff, to healing a group without it.

Ebon has nothing to do with healing . It is there to prevent your teammates from getting one-shotted .

raj72616a wrote: »

great for a coordinated group.
in pug they yell at you for running ahead then vote kick you.

Don't pug . Problem solved .

Teammates having across the board 1k extra life has everything to do with healing. If you think health totals have nothing to do with healing, perhaps try healing a tank over healing a dps...

That being said, my point was that in the off-chance someone dies, anecdotally I can say 99% of the time the extra 1k health made no difference (by their own Death recap). I’m sure I’ll get mathed on how wrong I am and how it make sure X amount of difference, but vet trials, and especially HM, completely unnoticeable. From a healing standpoint, and from my viewpoint as a dps with or without the extra health.

RavenSworn

SmellyUnlimited wrote: »

Liofa wrote: »

SmellyUnlimited wrote: »

Wrong. Any dps worth their salt would gladly sacrifice 1k health for something to increase efficiency. I main a Templar healer, and I have never noticed a difference healing a group that had Ebon buff, to healing a group without it.

Ebon has nothing to do with healing . It is there to prevent your teammates from getting one-shotted .

raj72616a wrote: »

great for a coordinated group.
in pug they yell at you for running ahead then vote kick you.

Don't pug . Problem solved .

Teammates having across the board 1k extra life has everything to do with healing. If you think health totals have nothing to do with healing, perhaps try healing a tank over healing a dps...

That being said, my point was that in the off-chance someone dies, anecdotally I can say 99% of the time the extra 1k health made no difference (by their own Death recap). I’m sure I’ll get mathed on how wrong I am and how it make sure X amount of difference, but vet trials, and especially HM, completely unnoticeable. From a healing standpoint, and from my viewpoint as a dps with or without the extra health.

Definitely gonna agree with you. Ebon works more efficiently in larger groups, yeah the health might be marginally better but it's wasted in a small group or dungeon run.

I think even dragon guard is better since it gives better output on ult.

Liofa

raj72616a wrote: »

Teammates having across the board 1k extra life has everything to do with healing. If you think health totals have nothing to do with healing, perhaps try healing a tank over healing a dps...

That being said, my point was that in the off-chance someone dies, anecdotally I can say 99% of the time the extra 1k health made no difference (by their own Death recap). I’m sure I’ll get mathed on how wrong I am and how it make sure X amount of difference, but vet trials, and especially HM, completely unnoticeable. From a healing standpoint, and from my viewpoint as a dps with or without the extra health.

I am not comparing healing a tank and healing a dps . We are talking about one-shots . I've seen many , many times Ebon saving lifes . Sometimes several times in a single run . You cannot outheal one-shots . Only thing that can save from one-shot is mitigation and Max Health . That's all . From one-shot , I mean many hard-hitting attacks connecting exactly at the same time . So , how can Ebon have an effect on healing ?

You do have correct points but they do not apply to everyone . For example , while I am tanking pledges or whatever 4-man content , it becomes literally harder than some HM trials . I pull everything on boss , risk of getting one-shot on teammates is high , Ebon saves my groupmates a lot of times in almost every run . If I was just casually tanking trash packs one by one , I wouldn't even consider using Ebon . But I don't . That's why I use Ebon . This setup gives me the fastest clear times in pledges so I don't spend my time with the pledges . Makes easy content harder and challenging .

SmellyUnlimited

Liofa wrote: »

raj72616a wrote: »

Teammates having across the board 1k extra life has everything to do with healing. If you think health totals have nothing to do with healing, perhaps try healing a tank over healing a dps...

That being said, my point was that in the off-chance someone dies, anecdotally I can say 99% of the time the extra 1k health made no difference (by their own Death recap). I’m sure I’ll get mathed on how wrong I am and how it make sure X amount of difference, but vet trials, and especially HM, completely unnoticeable. From a healing standpoint, and from my viewpoint as a dps with or without the extra health.

I am not comparing healing a tank and healing a dps . We are talking about one-shots . I've seen many , many times Ebon saving lifes . Sometimes several times in a single run . You cannot outheal one-shots . Only thing that can save from one-shot is mitigation and Max Health . That's all . From one-shot , I mean many hard-hitting attacks connecting exactly at the same time . So , how can Ebon have an effect on healing ?

You do have correct points but they do not apply to everyone . For example , while I am tanking pledges or whatever 4-man content , it becomes literally harder than some HM trials . I pull everything on boss , risk of getting one-shot on teammates is high , Ebon saves my groupmates a lot of times in almost every run . If I was just casually tanking trash packs one by one , I wouldn't even consider using Ebon . But I don't . That's why I use Ebon . This setup gives me the fastest clear times in pledges so I don't spend my time with the pledges . Makes easy content harder and challenging .

If it increases efficiency, I’m all for it. It may actually find more use BECAUSE content (outside vet trials, and even the ...) is relatively easy. In a perfect game world, tanks would be concentrating more on keeping ads manageable, and not being able to tank an entire dungeon. That scenario should always result in a wipe (in this hypothetical game space).

The only other MMO I’ve played would be Everquest ages ago. You had to have a class who’s primary role was controlling adds; a single one slipped through could easily cause the team to wipe. In that scenario, the tank HAS to gear just for their own livelihood, and not just as dps-enablers. In this perfect world, dps group utility would be spread out amongst other character/classes. A shaman can moderately heal, but provide major debuffs to the enemy, and can speed your group members up. Druids can also moderately heal, but can provide strong DOT’s and heal through HOT’s.

A more difficult game = more situational decision making (is Ebon worth it? Or is this team more geared toward strong melee damage, where heals are more easily managed due to proximity?). I’m just tired of everyone being derivative and carbon copies of one another. There definitely needs to be a change if tanks always use Ebon/Alkosh, and healers always use SPC + worm/mending. It makes everything incredibly tedious.

Illurian

I run Torug's Pact + Plague Doctor/Ebon on my tank.

An infused Torug's Pact weapon with the Crusher enchant really helps boost the dps of the group.

paulsimonps

Illurian wrote: »

I run Torug's Pact + Plague Doctor/Ebon on my tank.

An infused Torug's Pact weapon with the Crusher enchant really helps boost the dps of the group.

I do the same, or sometimes I do Torug's Alkosh but that is mostly in Trials where the difficulty allows it. Normally I just got Torug's Ebon cause of how effective it is all around, can't go bad with it and still works great regardless of if you have pugs or preformed team.

Sooooo many times I have seen Ebon save lives on stuff like Spindleclutch 1 or Banished Cells 1 last bosses with their untauntable one shot skills. Its why I only really swap to other things in Bloodroot Forge last boss, swap to Plague, cause he hits really hard and the others don't really get hit if they move right, never PUG DLC Dungeons.

Maura_Neysa

paulsimonps wrote: »

Illurian wrote: »

I run Torug's Pact + Plague Doctor/Ebon on my tank.

An infused Torug's Pact weapon with the Crusher enchant really helps boost the dps of the group.

I do the same, or sometimes I do Torug's Alkosh but that is mostly in Trials where the difficulty allows it. Normally I just got Torug's Ebon cause of how effective it is all around, can't go bad with it and still works great regardless of if you have pugs or preformed team.

Sooooo many times I have seen Ebon save lives on stuff like Spindleclutch 1 or Banished Cells 1 last bosses with their untauntable one shot skills. Its why I only really swap to other things in Bloodroot Forge last boss, swap to Plague, cause he hits really hard and the others don't really get hit if they move right, never PUG DLC Dungeons.

PUGing DLC makes things interesting as a tank. Yes sometimes you get groups that just can't do it. Sometimes though you get groups that just needed some direction and some pulling. About a month back I got two Newbies to Bloodroot. It took a while and several wipes and a good 10minute section on the Amalgamation where I solo tanked all 3 until I could uncover the self sustaining DPS and we finished. Did they get carried? yes. Did I have a blast? H@$$ yes!

s7732425ub17_ESO

The "ideal" tank for vet dungeons is a heal/tank that can run with 3 DPS.

However, you will really only run this with dedicated vet dungeon groups (with friends or guild mates). If you are pugging, I suppose the ideal tank would be one that can quickly see the strengths and weaknesses of the current group and adjust accordingly.

Maura_Neysa

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

The "ideal" tank for vet dungeons is a heal/tank that can run with 3 DPS.

However, you will really only run this with dedicated vet dungeon groups (with friends or guild mates). If you are pugging, I suppose the ideal tank would be one that can quickly see the strengths and weaknesses of the current group and adjust accordingly.

An overpowered class and some how the weakest class at what 90% of the people who play do... PvE DPS... Your math is highly questionable.

You know where it does excel? At the thing the least people in the game do... Tanking. Maybe not BiS but at least actual competition for it.

Mister_DMC

I prefer 3dps and me tanking with pug groups or without I don't care. If pugging the chances are better with 3 DPS at the combined total will be enough to finish the dungeon. I don't need a healer in 4 man content. Helps for dlc dungeons but isn't necessary. For 4 man content I use Torugs, alkosh and Lord warden or Chudan. I want the DPS to push as much as possible, and I want to be in and out in the minimum amount of time possible. A good tank should basically never die.

Mister_DMC

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

The "ideal" tank for vet dungeons is a heal/tank that can run with 3 DPS.

However, you will really only run this with dedicated vet dungeon groups (with friends or guild mates). If you are pugging, I suppose the ideal tank would be one that can quickly see the strengths and weaknesses of the current group and adjust accordingly.

An overpowered class and some how the weakest class at what 90% of the people who play do... PvE DPS... Your math is highly questionable.

You know where it does excel? At the thing the least people in the game do... Tanking. Maybe not BiS but at least actual competition for it.

I have no idea what you are talking about.

ZeroXFF

I have the ultimate answer for the question.... One that has a taunt and doesn't get 1-shot.

Nobody really cares about anything else in a random dungeon group. Aside from that, knowing tricks for the specific encounters is more beneficial than anything else you can do with your build. Yes, having a magplar tank (and I assume warden too, but I haven't tanked with a warden yet, so I can't say for sure) helps in vRoM if the healer dies or is on a statue, and yes, if you have enough dps to finish off the adds in vWGT when nobody except you knows how to survive the shield phase is helpful, but the requirements of each encounter are different, and it's hard to find the "optimal" setup for everything. I sometimes switch my gear and abilities twice within the same dungeon.

DeadlyRecluse

The best tank for (most) vet dungeons is the DPS that draws the short straw and has to slot a taunt.

Kinda-sorta joking. For pugging 4mans, I like a healtank of some sort that can keep the group alive (in case the healer isn't great) or a tank that can pull okay DPS in order to help everything go quicker.