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ZOS, you need to adress the furnishing and housing grind

Carbonised
Carbonised
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There have been several posts about this pretty much ever since Homestead was released, but increasing with Morrowind and CWC DLCs.

The grinding for housing recipes and items, and the components to craft them, has gotten out of hand. People are increasingly frustrated about this, and you need to do something about it.
People have been complaining about the gear grind for ages, and you accomodated them eventually. First monster masks were increased to a 100 % droprate, then came trading bound trial and dungeon equipment with group mates, then came buying trial/dungeon gold jewelry and monster masks outright from gold and AP, and with the recently added trait transmutation, grinding for gear has never been so easy.

Things are quite different for the housing people. Redguard purple recipes still go up to 100k per piece, Morrowind purple recipes go as high as 0.5-1M per piece, and Telvanni recipes haven't even been up for sale in any guild store for weeks, apart from 2 instances of the tiny footstool one, which were listed at about 600k.
Compared to those prices, the fact that you have to throw 20 pieces of flour and 5 mundane runes into every piece of bread seems laughable. To craft the tiny Hlaalu trinket box, I need 15 pieces of obsidian, 12 logs of heartwood, 3 mastic and some runes and regulus and whatnot. I wonder what happens with the leftover materials, unless they have to be astronomically compressed to the density of a black hole in order to fit into that tiny box?

It is clear to everyone that this is intentionally done to push people into the crown store to buy stuff. This is a bad move in your behalf, for at least two reasons.

For one, when you have already paid full amount for a crown store house, and perhaps bought several of the crown store exclusive furnishings (and there are many), don't you think you've already forked out enough dollars to you? How much do you think is fair and ethical to charge people for something cosmetic that's supposed to be fun and enjoyable? Do you think prices of 600-800 crowns per piece of small furnishing is either fair, fun or enjoyable?

Secondly, you're hurting your own sales. IF prices had been more reasonable, people might have been tempted to buy from your store. But seeing as the prices for crown furnishings, at least for the Morrowind and CWC ones, the exorbitantly greedy pricing is just pushing people away from it, including me. I actually bought some of the store exclusive flowers and fungi for my home, since I thought they were reasonably priced, but I'm sure as heck not going to fork over 800 crowns for a lamp, or for a footstool.

The conclusion is that most people are just sitting in ghost homes. They can't reasonably obtain the housing items in game, since few people are sitting on, or willing to spend, 50 million gold to get the recipes they need for their house. And they aren't going to fork over thousands and thousands of crowns either, since your pricing is nothing but unreasonable.

The solution is pretty simple, you just need to acknowledge the problem and realise that cosmetic housing items isn't the area where you should force the game's greatest grinds.

- Up furnishing recipe droprate, especially for the rarest purple ones.
- Do NOT clog up DLC zones' loottables with trash base game recipes. When I'm in Vvardenfell I want to find 90 % Morrowind recipes, not 90 % Argonian trash.
- Have recipes be available from more sources. Make them have a chance to spawn in zone chests and treasure chests for example.
- Lower the cost on purple random furnishing plan from the master crafter guy. The increase you did a while back was uncalled for.
- Increase the amount of DLC recipes you get from blue/purple mastercrafter random container. And lower the amount of base game trash you get from them.
- OR have a random box for sale on the mastercrafter guy for the base game, and one for each of the DLC zones, so you could spend your vouchers farming for specific zones.
- And while we're at it, lower the crafting requirements to something more reasonable. 20 flour for an apple and 12 logs of wood for a jewelry box is tragicomic.

Over the past years you have done much to accomodate those people who were dead tired of grinding a dungeon 800 times for their sharpened weapon drop. Or those PVP'ers who didn't want to grind for gear, who can now buy everything from monster set to gold jewels to zone gear drops with AP. Now is the time to listen to your homestead crowd, whose grind is even bigger than anything we have seen in the game so far.
If ZOS only listens to the flow of cash, then I'm sure you know that the people interested in cosmetics, appearance and housing are the ones funneling the most money your way, more than any PvP'er or trial raider ever will. So stop alienating us with these absurd droprates for something that was supposed to be fun and enjoyable and purely cosmetic
  • code65536
    code65536
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    They did do something about it--you can find it all in the Crown Store with zero in-game grind! :trollface:
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  • Carbonised
    Carbonised
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    code65536 wrote: »
    They did do something about it--you can find it all in the Crown Store with zero in-game grind! :trollface:

    I know. And I adressed why I don't think that is going to prove succesful for them, even from a purely revenue point of view. Mostly due to the extremely inflated crown prices of furniture.

    Also, it shouldn't be necessary to point out the recent uproar with Star Wars BFII or Destiny 2 or Middle Earth, Shadow of War. There's a real limit as to how much money milking BS customers are putting up with.
    Edited by Carbonised on December 30, 2017 10:10AM
  • Integral1900
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    Hardest thing is getting rid of the stuff, I’m one of those ‘if you see it then harvest it’ types and I think my experience is the opposite. Yes, it takes forever at first but then once you have started acumulating stuff you reach a tipping point and now my problem is the exact opposite, the stuff just keeps heaping up, tried dumping it in guild stores but it wouldn’t sell no matter how low the price, now I dump it on npc merchants
    Edited by Integral1900 on December 30, 2017 9:56AM
  • Carbonised
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    Hardest thing is getting rid of the stuff, I’m one of those ‘if you see it then harvest it’ types and I think my experience is the opposite. Yes, it takes forever at first but then once you have started acumulating stuff you reach a tipping point and now my problem is the exact opposite, the stuff just keeps heaping up, tried dumping it in guild stores but it wouldn’t sell no matter how low the price, now I dump it on npc merchants

    I have no idea what you are talking about here, but it certainly isn't the purple Morrowind recipes you're talking about.
  • Nerouyn
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    Carbonised wrote: »
    I have no idea what you are talking about here, but it certainly isn't the purple Morrowind recipes you're talking about.

    That's right. They're not talking about recipes.
    Hardest thing is getting rid of the stuff, I’m one of those ‘if you see it then harvest it’ types and I think my experience is the opposite.

    They're talking about crafting materials. You bemoaned that crafting uses up too many. They said they have an excess.
  • Integral1900
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    Purples turn up at a steady pace, about once a week or so, I use those I don’t have and try to sell the rest but they normally don’t shift, tried using the global trading house and in game addon prices but nothing works, I’ve dropped an item from its recomended 35000 all the way down to 500 in roughly 5000 stages and it just wouldn’t shift so into the npc merchant it went for whatever the game values it at. Problem with selling these thing is that the market is crazy volatile and I don’t have the time, space or patience to hold onto maybe items when the surplus from crafting Writ rewards alone, sold at half the going rate, is generating fifty grand a week as regular as clockwork for almost no effort. Faffing around with surplus purple furniture recipes just isn’t worth my time unfortunately, also I give them to my guild if there is not a bunch already in there or like I say I just sell them to npc merchants
  • Nerouyn
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    Carbonised wrote: »
    If "they" had read my post, "they" would see that it's mostly adressing the recipe droprate issue. The material costs was merely mention as a small aside, for hillarity.

    That's certaintly you be hilarious right there.

  • heaven13
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    Agreed. I've been in CWC since renewing my sub (so 3 weeks or so) and have seen one green furnishing recipe. But I get plenty of normal zone furnishing recipes, including at least one purple and green/blue pretty much daily.

    And yes, many blue/purple base plans still go for over 50k. I haven't bothered getting more than the inn rooms right now since there's not much I can make to go in them.
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  • davey1107
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    I agree that some of the mat requirements are weird/annoying. Recipes, though...meh. As the game ages, players are becoming more and more hoarders, just stocking everything and not really using the guild stores. It really hurts the economy. Homesteading was a good way to revitalize the economy...they allowed everything to be sellable and remain unbound.

    Most any piece in the game is pretty prolific in guild stores. A week into Morrowind I was ***lucky*** enough (x1000) to draw the recipe for hlallu bookcase, orderly. I have sold over 500 and keep my guild stores stocked with them, and I charge $11k...which is pretty reasonable considering they take 3 mastic and 30 furnishing mats. Why would people spend a hundred hours searching for this recipe? My shelves are very nice, I line the books up just right on every one, lol. That’s true of every furnishing in the game, the rarer the recipe the more likely they’re being sold in guild stores.

    That’s why recipes are rare...ZOS didn’t intend this as a recipe collection game, it’s a system designed to encourage trading built items. I’d love to get a telvanni bed recipe. And when I do, I will put them in all my stores for a $2k per piece profit, like the fifty guild stores that have an ample supply of telvanni beds.
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  • Carbonised
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    davey1107 wrote: »
    I agree that some of the mat requirements are weird/annoying. Recipes, though...meh. As the game ages, players are becoming more and more hoarders, just stocking everything and not really using the guild stores. It really hurts the economy. Homesteading was a good way to revitalize the economy...they allowed everything to be sellable and remain unbound.

    Most any piece in the game is pretty prolific in guild stores. A week into Morrowind I was ***lucky*** enough (x1000) to draw the recipe for hlallu bookcase, orderly. I have sold over 500 and keep my guild stores stocked with them, and I charge $11k...which is pretty reasonable considering they take 3 mastic and 30 furnishing mats. Why would people spend a hundred hours searching for this recipe? My shelves are very nice, I line the books up just right on every one, lol. That’s true of every furnishing in the game, the rarer the recipe the more likely they’re being sold in guild stores.

    That’s why recipes are rare...ZOS didn’t intend this as a recipe collection game, it’s a system designed to encourage trading built items. I’d love to get a telvanni bed recipe. And when I do, I will put them in all my stores for a $2k per piece profit, like the fifty guild stores that have an ample supply of telvanni beds.

    Well good for you. Though I don't really see how you getting rich off of recipe scarcity makes for a neither fun nor interesting game experience or economy for everyone else.

    As for what ZOS "intended" with this scarcity, I'm quite certain it starts with the word Crown and ends with Store.

    But just to put things into perspective, for the same amount of money it takes to buy 2 purple lamps through the crown store, I can go online and buy the amount of gold it would take me to buy those 2 recipes off a guild vendor instead (about 500k each). Now I'm not suggesting you should buy gold from gold sellers, but it's pretty clear which of these is the better deal.
  • Ermiq
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    davey1107 wrote: »
    I agree that some of the mat requirements are weird/annoying. Recipes, though...meh. As the game ages, players are becoming more and more hoarders, just stocking everything and not really using the guild stores. It really hurts the economy. Homesteading was a good way to revitalize the economy...they allowed everything to be sellable and remain unbound.

    Most any piece in the game is pretty prolific in guild stores. A week into Morrowind I was ***lucky*** enough (x1000) to draw the recipe for hlallu bookcase, orderly. I have sold over 500 and keep my guild stores stocked with them, and I charge $11k...which is pretty reasonable considering they take 3 mastic and 30 furnishing mats. Why would people spend a hundred hours searching for this recipe? My shelves are very nice, I line the books up just right on every one, lol. That’s true of every furnishing in the game, the rarer the recipe the more likely they’re being sold in guild stores.

    That’s why recipes are rare...ZOS didn’t intend this as a recipe collection game, it’s a system designed to encourage trading built items. I’d love to get a telvanni bed recipe. And when I do, I will put them in all my stores for a $2k per piece profit, like the fifty guild stores that have an ample supply of telvanni beds.

    ^^ This ^^

    I wonder why OP doesn't use the guild stores. You don't need a recipe to be able to put items in your house. Just go to the guild trader and buy items you need.
    Rare purple recipes are supposed to be rare. Rare items supposed to be expensive. That's how in-game economic works.
    And recipes are always way more expensive than furniture made with them. Player invests his money in expensive rare recipes and then he's making money by selling furniture. That's what recipes made for.

    Also, OP, you said that devs did a lot for gear grind become less grindy. But you forgot that they've already did the same for furniture mats. The furniture mats drop chance was increased significantly. Right after the Homestead launch I've been grinding for them and it was a very good luck if I got 1 heartwood from 10-15 wood gathering nodes. The prices also was quite high, it was 400-600 gold for 1 heartwood.
    Nowadays heartwood price is ~40 gold, and I can get 1-3 heartwood from every 3rd wood gathering node. The same goes for all other furniture materials.

    Morrowind and CWC recipes... They are new in the game. Every new stuff is supposed to be expensive because -again- it's rare and it supposed to be rare. Wait some time and all this stuff will be cheaper than now. And there's no need to increase their drop chances, the price drop will happen in natural way because more and more players will find them and they will become more common.

    However, prices in Crown Store are really too high. I don't understand how people could spend so much for houses, especially since they doesn't really matter in the game.
    One of the two of us definitely has gone mad. It only remains to define whether this one is the world or me.

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  • Ajaxandriel
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    Carbonised wrote: »
    The conclusion is that most people are just sitting in ghost homes. They can't reasonably obtain the housing items in game, since few people are sitting on, or willing to spend, 50 million gold to get the recipes they need for their house. And they aren't going to fork over thousands and thousands of crowns either, since your pricing is nothing but unreasonable.

    The solution is pretty simple, you just need to acknowledge the problem and realise that cosmetic housing items isn't the area where you should force the game's greatest grinds.

    - Up furnishing recipe droprate, especially for the rarest purple ones.
    - Do NOT clog up DLC zones' loottables with trash base game recipes. When I'm in Vvardenfell I want to find 90 % Morrowind recipes, not 90 % Argonian trash.
    - Have recipes be available from more sources. Make them have a chance to spawn in zone chests and treasure chests for example.
    - Lower the cost on purple random furnishing plan from the master crafter guy. The increase you did a while back was uncalled for.
    - Increase the amount of DLC recipes you get from blue/purple mastercrafter random container. And lower the amount of base game trash you get from them.
    - OR have a random box for sale on the mastercrafter guy for the base game, and one for each of the DLC zones, so you could spend your vouchers farming for specific zones.
    - And while we're at it, lower the crafting requirements to something more reasonable. 20 flour for an apple and 12 logs of wood for a jewelry box is tragicomic.

    THIS.

    And I can say so - as someone who supports (and regularly buys) homestead stuff, as long as it seems fair.

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  • Ermiq
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    Apache_Kid wrote: »
    NEWS FLASH EVERYONE: It's NOT to encourage trading between players it's to make you so frustrated that you can't find what you want that you decide to go to the crown store. That's it.

    OMG! Really?! :#

    Actually, since I decided not to spend money in this game anymore, I didn't even thought about Crown Store profits here.
    Yes, it's clear for everyone that it increases number of CS purchases, but for people who actually play the game and who don't play Crown Store it doesn't really matter. Does it encourage trading between players? Yes, it does.
    One of the two of us definitely has gone mad. It only remains to define whether this one is the world or me.

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  • Carbonised
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    Apache_Kid wrote: »
    I can't believe there are actual real people in here defending the abysmal, microscopic, drop rate of Vvardenfell and CwC and Ayleid furnishing plans.

    Lots of people here don't really know what they are talking about, they just pour out opinions left and right without any facts to back it up.
    I doubt any of the drop defenders in this thread actually know just how horribly low the dropchance of these recipes really are.

  • Linaleah
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    Eremith wrote: »
    Apache_Kid wrote: »
    NEWS FLASH EVERYONE: It's NOT to encourage trading between players it's to make you so frustrated that you can't find what you want that you decide to go to the crown store. That's it.

    OMG! Really?! :#

    Actually, since I decided not to spend money in this game anymore, I didn't even thought about Crown Store profits here.
    Yes, it's clear for everyone that it increases number of CS purchases, but for people who actually play the game and who don't play Crown Store it doesn't really matter. Does it encourage trading between players? Yes, it does.

    I think you underestimate just how many players decorate via crown store. I underestimated is as well, until I realized that people even buy basic building blocks with crowns. I constantly encounter people who don't even realize you can buy a lot of this stuff with in game gold, and a great deal of those for whom its just easier to spend money on crowns than make gold. so yeah, the system is very much set up to encourage crown store participation rather then player trade. player trade is a bonus, yes, but crown purchases are the primary goal.
    Edited by Linaleah on January 1, 2018 4:27PM
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  • duendology
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    Carbonised wrote: »

    Lots of people here don't really know what they are talking about, they just pour out opinions left and right without any facts to back it up.
    I doubt any of the drop defenders in this thread actually know just how horribly low the dropchance of these recipes really are.

    And I suspect that the drop rate is just the same like for other purple plans in any zone.. but the fact that EVERYONE , and I repeat... EVERYONE, has been farming for those recipes because it's NEW DLC therefore NEW RECIPES makes it harder to get those..
    If you've got just every player thinking now 'I must have a morrowind recipes so I am going to Morrowind" or "CWC one, so I am going to CWC"..so you have what you have... low drop rate.

    Am I incorrect in my assumption?

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  • Apache_Kid
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    duendology wrote: »
    Carbonised wrote: »

    Lots of people here don't really know what they are talking about, they just pour out opinions left and right without any facts to back it up.
    I doubt any of the drop defenders in this thread actually know just how horribly low the dropchance of these recipes really are.

    And I suspect that the drop rate is just the same like for other purple plans in any zone.. but the fact that EVERYONE , and I repeat... EVERYONE, has been farming for those recipes because it's NEW DLC therefore NEW RECIPES makes it harder to get those..
    If you've got just every player thinking now 'I must have a morrowind recipes so I am going to Morrowind" or "CWC one, so I am going to CWC"..so you have what you have... low drop rate.

    Am I incorrect in my assumption?

    You're entirely missing the important fact that DLC furniture recipes like Vvardenfell and CwC ones ARE NOT in the loot table for the Hlaalu Master Furnisher's documents. This is where the majority of the supply of purple furnishing plans in this game come from. Not having those plans in the loot table is a main part of the problem. Your failure to even consider this angle tells me that you are not serious into the furniture plan collection grind and that you are under-informed on this issue.
  • duendology
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    Apache_Kid wrote: »

    You're entirely missing the important fact that DLC furniture recipes like Vvardenfell and CwC ones ARE NOT in the loot table for the Hlaalu Master Furnisher's documents. This is where the majority of the supply of purple furnishing plans in this game come from. Not having those plans in the loot table is a main part of the problem. Your failure to even consider this angle tells me that you are not serious into the furniture plan collection grind and that you are under-informed on this issue.

    No, I am not SERIOUS into the furniture plan collection grind in that it's not my raison d'etre, you realise 0_o .
    I suspect I committed some terrible faux pas bordering blasphemy making an assumption I made..and made it clear it's just an assumption (and not stating the fact) lol

    And no, I did not know that.. because I haven't considered buying the document yet.. but have enough of vouchers to get about 20. By the way, should I get those? 0_o

    But my question is.. does it matter? If I had understood you well.. ZOS decided to put different recipes into document obtained from Master Furnisher.. and different in drops.. So? what's your point? Is it "how did they dare to do that"?
    Edited by duendology on January 1, 2018 6:32PM
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    - Breton SorcMag dps [She's got an identity crisis, but I believe in her.]
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    And..
    - High Elf SorcMag dps [It's quite possible his daddy was a Nord.]

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  • FrancisCrawford
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    To be clear:

    Most non-DLC furnishing plans (counting Morrowind as a DLC) drop everywhere, including from Rolis Hlaalu.

    DLC furnishing plans drop only in their specific DLC zones, and very rarely even there.

    Various special-case exceptions -- Harvest Festival loot, Daedric plans, etc. -- don't undermine the basic complaint.
    Edited by FrancisCrawford on January 1, 2018 8:06PM
  • duendology
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    Apache_Kid wrote: »

    However, only the DLC and Ayleid plans are excluded from the writ documents. .

    I see.

    Is it confirmed by anyone from ZOS? Or is it generally assumed because none of the players, frequenting the forums, has ever gotten one?

    PC/NA
    - Redguard StamBlade dps ["bowtard" crafty girl who likes spinning with daggers too.]
    - Breton SorcMag dps [She's got an identity crisis, but I believe in her.]
    - Dunmer Templar dps/healer [she's a healer, then again she likes inferno staff too...]
    And..
    - High Elf SorcMag dps [It's quite possible his daddy was a Nord.]

    I am an old-fashioned Goth
  • FrancisCrawford
    FrancisCrawford
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    Apache_Kid wrote: »

    You're entirely missing the important fact that DLC furniture recipes like Vvardenfell and CwC ones ARE NOT in the loot table for the Hlaalu Master Furnisher's documents. This is where the majority of the supply of purple furnishing plans in this game come from. Not having those plans in the loot table is a main part of the problem. Your failure to even consider this angle tells me that you are not serious into the furniture plan collection grind and that you are under-informed on this issue.

    Are people still buying those plans since the price went up 2.5X? I bought well over 100 at the old price, and packratted the majority of them until the Redguard drop rate was equalized w/ the rest. But I haven't bought any at the 25 voucher price. Now I'm just packratting vouchers.
  • Apache_Kid
    Apache_Kid
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    Apache_Kid wrote: »

    You're entirely missing the important fact that DLC furniture recipes like Vvardenfell and CwC ones ARE NOT in the loot table for the Hlaalu Master Furnisher's documents. This is where the majority of the supply of purple furnishing plans in this game come from. Not having those plans in the loot table is a main part of the problem. Your failure to even consider this angle tells me that you are not serious into the furniture plan collection grind and that you are under-informed on this issue.

    Are people still buying those plans since the price went up 2.5X? I bought well over 100 at the old price, and packratted the majority of them until the Redguard drop rate was equalized w/ the rest. But I haven't bought any at the 25 voucher price. Now I'm just packratting vouchers.

    Not sure. I actually can't decide myself about whether or not to spend on those as I'm doing the same with my vouchers. Might be worth a shot.
  • Apache_Kid
    Apache_Kid
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    duendology wrote: »
    Apache_Kid wrote: »

    However, only the DLC and Ayleid plans are excluded from the writ documents. .

    I see.

    Is it confirmed by anyone from ZOS? Or is it generally assumed because none of the players, frequenting the forums, has ever gotten one?

    I think it's been confirmed but I'm not entirely certain. Either way with how many frequent forum users farm these plans and have bought those documents if no one as gotten one out of them by now then the drop rate is 1 in a million or not in the loot table for the Hlaalu random purple furnishing plan.
    Edited by Apache_Kid on January 1, 2018 8:27PM
  • FrancisCrawford
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    Apache_Kid wrote: »
    Apache_Kid wrote: »

    You're entirely missing the important fact that DLC furniture recipes like Vvardenfell and CwC ones ARE NOT in the loot table for the Hlaalu Master Furnisher's documents. This is where the majority of the supply of purple furnishing plans in this game come from. Not having those plans in the loot table is a main part of the problem. Your failure to even consider this angle tells me that you are not serious into the furniture plan collection grind and that you are under-informed on this issue.

    Are people still buying those plans since the price went up 2.5X? I bought well over 100 at the old price, and packratted the majority of them until the Redguard drop rate was equalized w/ the rest. But I haven't bought any at the 25 voucher price. Now I'm just packratting vouchers.

    Not sure. I actually can't decide myself about whether or not to spend on those as I'm doing the same with my vouchers. Might be worth a shot.

    If we view writ vouchers as worth over 1K each, it's very hard to conclude that the furnishing documents are anywhere close to being worth the price. At least on PC/NA.
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