PvP Players That Look Down On PvE "Carebears"

LadyAstrum

DoctorESO wrote: »

LadyAstrum wrote: »

From my first MMO (Lotro) to now, I've frequently heard the term "carebear". Some PvP'ers (not all) have an elitist opinion. They believe themselves a better class of player, hardened and scarred by virtual battle. They look upon those who happily thrive in the safety of their towns and non-gankable quests, and see softness, even weakness. Anyone that doesn't feel the passion of war, or doesn't possess the skill to negotiate battle, is seen as "lesser" (by those elitist few). But "carebears" are the ones that fill the towns, give life to the otherwise stagnant environs, and keep up the endless fight against the dolmen horde.

Without us "carebears" the battletorn warriors would have nothing to fight for, except empty towns and lifeless inns.

I can hear the response now.

We live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded. You want me on that wall. You need me on that wall. I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a person who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide [in the safety of their towns and non-gankable quests], and then questions the manner in which I provide it.

Kind of makes me wish there were faction-wide repercussions for losing in PvP, like having the capital city invaded or locked-down until it could be liberated again, though I could imagine the out-cry such scenerios would create.

Samadhi

LadyAstrum wrote: »

DoctorESO wrote: »

LadyAstrum wrote: »

From my first MMO (Lotro) to now, I've frequently heard the term "carebear". Some PvP'ers (not all) have an elitist opinion. They believe themselves a better class of player, hardened and scarred by virtual battle. They look upon those who happily thrive in the safety of their towns and non-gankable quests, and see softness, even weakness. Anyone that doesn't feel the passion of war, or doesn't possess the skill to negotiate battle, is seen as "lesser" (by those elitist few). But "carebears" are the ones that fill the towns, give life to the otherwise stagnant environs, and keep up the endless fight against the dolmen horde.

Without us "carebears" the battletorn warriors would have nothing to fight for, except empty towns and lifeless inns.

I can hear the response now.

We live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded. You want me on that wall. You need me on that wall. I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a person who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide [in the safety of their towns and non-gankable quests], and then questions the manner in which I provide it.

Kind of makes me wish there were faction-wide repercussions for losing in PvP, like having the capital city invaded or locked-down until it could be liberated again, though I could imagine the out-cry such scenerios would create.

As awesome as this would be (and you get one from me anyway!),
and more alive it would make the game world feel
We were not even able to have PvP buffs impact PvE without it resulting in just a bunch of lop-sided buff campaigns
cannot imagine what would come if Vivec was the only campaign available for buffs that impacted end-game PvE stats
let alone the further impact you suggest

MattT1988

Blanco wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

I like to think of PvP as regular baseball and PvE as a home run derby.

Thogard wrote: »

I like to think of PvP as regular baseball and PvE as a home run derby.

Personally I think of PvP as like the majors.... and PvE as tee ball.

Too far?

I know your just trying bait people but I gotta say, I dunno what kind of standard of tee ball you have over there, but if vMOL is tee ball, god damn, that’s pretty bloody ruthless tee ball.

monktoasty

I rather be a care bear than a griefer. Yea I went old sk00l on yooz

Tasear

Maybe it's jealously, after all when is last time they got an update

LadyAstrum

Samadhi wrote: »

LadyAstrum wrote: »

DoctorESO wrote: »

LadyAstrum wrote: »

From my first MMO (Lotro) to now, I've frequently heard the term "carebear". Some PvP'ers (not all) have an elitist opinion. They believe themselves a better class of player, hardened and scarred by virtual battle. They look upon those who happily thrive in the safety of their towns and non-gankable quests, and see softness, even weakness. Anyone that doesn't feel the passion of war, or doesn't possess the skill to negotiate battle, is seen as "lesser" (by those elitist few). But "carebears" are the ones that fill the towns, give life to the otherwise stagnant environs, and keep up the endless fight against the dolmen horde.

Without us "carebears" the battletorn warriors would have nothing to fight for, except empty towns and lifeless inns.

I can hear the response now.

We live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded. You want me on that wall. You need me on that wall. I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a person who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide [in the safety of their towns and non-gankable quests], and then questions the manner in which I provide it.

Kind of makes me wish there were faction-wide repercussions for losing in PvP, like having the capital city invaded or locked-down until it could be liberated again, though I could imagine the out-cry such scenerios would create.

As awesome as this would be (and you get one from me anyway!),
and more alive it would make the game world feel
We were not even able to have PvP buffs impact PvE without it resulting in just a bunch of lop-sided buff campaigns
cannot imagine what would come if Vivec was the only campaign available for buffs that impacted end-game PvE stats
let alone the further impact you suggest

I see your awesome and raise you one in return! Yes, it sounds like the idea would create imbalances and inconveniences elsewhere, but one can dream. I'd like to see the day PvP'ers (the battleworn warriors) are accountable to we softer townsfolk. Imagine the pitchforks if the beloved Daggerfall was captured and locked-down by an enemy faction. A future game perhaps!

heng14rwb17_ESO

Raid grp 1 engage glade.
Raid grp 2 engage arrius.
Raid grp 3 def fare.

This campaign should be an easy win for us again.

Beardimus

Think the egos in this thread kinda articulate your point well OP lol.

Agreed that its all just one game. I do find it odd when PvEers avoid PvP totally due to the wish to not be killed by a player and how that makes them feel that does sound a bit carebear

But yeah there is skill both side.

The most aggressive PvP is on this forum. And the worst nature culture ive found is actually the trials clique.

DieAlteHexe

Beardimus wrote: »

...
Agreed that its all just one game. I do find it odd when PvEers avoid PvP totally due to the wish to not be killed by a player and how that makes them feel that does sound a bit carebear
...

My attitude is that since I am not getting anything from PvP (because I am a horrible PvPer) I don't want to pay to be someone's content. Too many bad experiences not so much with the actual PvP but the after-effects of the epeen wavers.

No thanks.

Aisle9

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

I like to think of PvP as regular baseball and PvE as a home run derby.

Thogard wrote: »

I like to think of PvP as regular baseball and PvE as a home run derby.

Personally I think of PvP as like the majors.... and PvE as tee ball.

Too far?

On the plus side, we carebears don't have to lug around those gigantic epeens.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpkkeVSN0rA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qaAGqyUx3M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5F4_vh-2ts

OF COURSE YOU DON'T... Only them toxic PvP baddies feel the need to swing them around...

DieAlteHexe

Aisle9 wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

I like to think of PvP as regular baseball and PvE as a home run derby.

Thogard wrote: »

I like to think of PvP as regular baseball and PvE as a home run derby.

Personally I think of PvP as like the majors.... and PvE as tee ball.

Too far?

On the plus side, we carebears don't have to lug around those gigantic epeens.

...

OF COURSE YOU DON'T... Only them toxic PvP baddies feel the need to swing them around...

Just the immature ones.

Aisle9

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

I like to think of PvP as regular baseball and PvE as a home run derby.

Thogard wrote: »

I like to think of PvP as regular baseball and PvE as a home run derby.

Personally I think of PvP as like the majors.... and PvE as tee ball.

Too far?

On the plus side, we carebears don't have to lug around those gigantic epeens.

...

OF COURSE YOU DON'T... Only them toxic PvP baddies feel the need to swing them around...

Just the immature ones.

Why does that can't apply to PvP players as well ?

DieAlteHexe

Aisle9 wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

I like to think of PvP as regular baseball and PvE as a home run derby.

Thogard wrote: »

I like to think of PvP as regular baseball and PvE as a home run derby.

Personally I think of PvP as like the majors.... and PvE as tee ball.

Too far?

On the plus side, we carebears don't have to lug around those gigantic epeens.

...

OF COURSE YOU DON'T... Only them toxic PvP baddies feel the need to swing them around...

Just the immature ones.

Why does that can't apply to PvP players as well ?

Sorry, not sure what you're asking?

Shadowasrial

I’m going to throw some gasoline on the fire and respond that more often than not I see pve players looking down on pvp players. Iv never seen pvp groups deny someone access to a group just because they aren’t running a certain set of armor or reaching a certain tier of damage. Yes I get it to speedrun the end game pve content you must have a solid group that have high enough stats and KNOW the mechanics but how can you expect players to learn the mechanics of they never get accepted into the raid or dungeon. Do you expect them to run it solo? Yes iv seen some nice pve players who offer advise but iv definitely seen more arrogant egotistical pve players who trash talk other players just because they don’t have a skin. Those skins can take anywhere from a couple hours of the content up to a few weeks at best if you have proper guidance where as pvp takes a buttload of time to achieve the top ranks in a legit manor. Yes there are those who boosted but the time and dedication it takes to get to a high rank in pvp will trump any trial skin.

Tandor

My only irritation with term "carebear" is that it is always misused. In the OP's dolmen story, for example, it's blindingly obvious which of the players should be labeled "carebear" - and it sure as heck isn't the PvEer soloing the dolmen !

Aisle9

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

I like to think of PvP as regular baseball and PvE as a home run derby.

Thogard wrote: »

I like to think of PvP as regular baseball and PvE as a home run derby.

Personally I think of PvP as like the majors.... and PvE as tee ball.

Too far?

On the plus side, we carebears don't have to lug around those gigantic epeens.

...

OF COURSE YOU DON'T... Only them toxic PvP baddies feel the need to swing them around...

Just the immature ones.

Why does that can't apply to PvP players as well ?

Sorry, not sure what you're asking?

let me clarify

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

I like to think of PvP as regular baseball and PvE as a home run derby.

Thogard wrote: »

I like to think of PvP as regular baseball and PvE as a home run derby.

Personally I think of PvP as like the majors.... and PvE as tee ball.

Too far?

On the plus side, we carebears don't have to lug around those gigantic epeens.

Just the immature ones.

EvilCroc

I am an PvE player that looks down on PvP "Baboons"
And I am OK with it.

DieAlteHexe

Aisle9 wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

I like to think of PvP as regular baseball and PvE as a home run derby.

Thogard wrote: »

I like to think of PvP as regular baseball and PvE as a home run derby.

Personally I think of PvP as like the majors.... and PvE as tee ball.

Too far?

On the plus side, we carebears don't have to lug around those gigantic epeens.

...

OF COURSE YOU DON'T... Only them toxic PvP baddies feel the need to swing them around...

Just the immature ones.

Why does that can't apply to PvP players as well ?

Sorry, not sure what you're asking?

let me clarify

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

I like to think of PvP as regular baseball and PvE as a home run derby.

Thogard wrote: »

I like to think of PvP as regular baseball and PvE as a home run derby.

Personally I think of PvP as like the majors.... and PvE as tee ball.

Too far?

On the plus side, we carebears don't have to lug around those gigantic epeens.

Just the immature ones.

To which you said:

"Why does that can't apply to PvP players as well ?"

Did you mean "PvE" players? Sure, there can be jerks there too but for 20 years I've seen far more invective hurled from the PvP side at those who don't PvP.

Either way, it's the immature ones that are the issue. Anyone who takes this seriously enough to start name calling might want to give their behaviour some thought.

If that's not what you meant, I still don't understand.

TequilaFire

When all is said and done I prefer Gummy Bears.
https://youtu.be/astISOttCQ0

Thogard

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

I like to think of PvP as regular baseball and PvE as a home run derby.

Thogard wrote: »

I like to think of PvP as regular baseball and PvE as a home run derby.

Personally I think of PvP as like the majors.... and PvE as tee ball.

Too far?

On the plus side, we carebears don't have to lug around those gigantic epeens.

You say that, but i've seen far more arguments over whose guild got the "world first" here on the boards than over who won a fight in cyrodil.

DieAlteHexe

Thogard wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

I like to think of PvP as regular baseball and PvE as a home run derby.

Thogard wrote: »

I like to think of PvP as regular baseball and PvE as a home run derby.

Personally I think of PvP as like the majors.... and PvE as tee ball.

Too far?

On the plus side, we carebears don't have to lug around those gigantic epeens.

You say that, but i've seen far more arguments over whose guild got the "world first" here on the boards than over who won a fight in cyrodil.

Okay?

What I think is not good is the unnecessary rude behaviour no matter over WHAT content.

But this is a diversion. Over the two decades I've been MMOing the preponderance of invective has been ladled out by PvPers (or as we used to call them PKs) against those who have no interest.

Why would it even matter? If "you" like PvPing...great, have at, enjoy but does that enjoyment have to include call those who don't derogatory names?

It shouldn't.

Grabmoore

Slick_007 wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Ganking a pver on a dolmen takes zero skill. Could literally be the matter of hitting 2 maybe 3 buttons. Unlikely that person was good at an aspect of the game and the reason they were ganking dolmen goers in the first place.

in a pvp zone, and you see another pvper. why wouldnt you? and yet you're basically calling them a *** player for doing exactly what the zone is designed for.

Honour. A true fighter strifes to always get better. Taking the small kids sweetroll away hardly teaches you anything. It just makes you an a**.

Aisle9

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

I like to think of PvP as regular baseball and PvE as a home run derby.

Thogard wrote: »

I like to think of PvP as regular baseball and PvE as a home run derby.

Personally I think of PvP as like the majors.... and PvE as tee ball.

Too far?

On the plus side, we carebears don't have to lug around those gigantic epeens.

...

OF COURSE YOU DON'T... Only them toxic PvP baddies feel the need to swing them around...

Just the immature ones.

Why does that can't apply to PvP players as well ?

Sorry, not sure what you're asking?

let me clarify

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

I like to think of PvP as regular baseball and PvE as a home run derby.

Thogard wrote: »

I like to think of PvP as regular baseball and PvE as a home run derby.

Personally I think of PvP as like the majors.... and PvE as tee ball.

Too far?

On the plus side, we carebears don't have to lug around those gigantic epeens.

Just the immature ones.

To which you said:

"Why does that can't apply to PvP players as well ?"

Did you mean "PvE" players? Sure, there can be jerks there too but for 20 years I've seen far more invective hurled from the PvP side at those who don't PvP.

Either way, it's the immature ones that are the issue. Anyone who takes this seriously enough to start name calling might want to give their behaviour some thought.

If that's not what you meant, I still don't understand.

No, I meant that you only receive derogatory comments from the immature ones, because the mature players generally don't care.

Problem is, that translates into "100% of PvP players do that" because you don't get the "GF" or "WP" from the PvP players that won't.

iBut If we're looking at PvE, though, no, only a small percentage of them does that (/sarcasm). There's no such thing as people kicking players from groups because they're under a certain amount of CP or because they don't have a MA weapon.

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

I like to think of PvP as regular baseball and PvE as a home run derby.

Thogard wrote: »

I like to think of PvP as regular baseball and PvE as a home run derby.

Personally I think of PvP as like the majors.... and PvE as tee ball.

Too far?

On the plus side, we carebears don't have to lug around those gigantic epeens.

You say that, but i've seen far more arguments over whose guild got the "world first" here on the boards than over who won a fight in cyrodil.

Okay?

What I think is not good is the unnecessary rude behaviour no matter over WHAT content.

But this is a diversion. Over the two decades I've been MMOing the preponderance of invective has been ladled out by PvPers (or as we used to call them PKs) against those who have no interest.

Why would it even matter? If "you" like PvPing...great, have at, enjoy but does that enjoyment have to include call those who don't derogatory names?

It shouldn't.

What you call "rude behavior" I call taunting the opponent, which is a common practice in competitions. And the fact you advocate against it is the reason you are called Carebears. If another player start sending you whispers you can ignore.

You don't want to be taunted or mocked, don't join PvP content. That said, only a small percentage of the population does it.

Also, fun fact: In two years playing this game I've been t-bagged more by PvE Heroes than from actual PvP players, and mostly out of revenge for when the PvP leets did it to them.

Food for thoughts.

Drummerx04

In an age old debate as to which community is more toxic, I think I have to give it to the PvE community as being vastly more toxic.

While the PvP community has some infighting, or cross faction rivalries... and certain stamblades who write addons to buff his dodge roll build and counter gankers, at the end of the day everyone is permitted to play in the same cyrodiil, and a couple people placed on ignore can solve a lot of issues.

But the PvE community... it's virtually impossible to break into the end game community and you NEED to be a part of the end game community to actually DO anything. Good luck getting into a PvE guild. All the groups are essentially chosen and permanent for months at a time, and other groups will kick you if they find a guy who does 1k more dps than you do, even if you've proven yourself competent in mechanics while delivering reliable DPS and half the soul gems consumed by the group were yours because you were the only one not dying every minute.

Also, dedicated PvP players tend to be absolutely awful at PvE, because ironically a lot of PvP is about memorizing how common builds function and how to deal with them.

Case in point:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulvMGWu7de8

Thogard

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

I like to think of PvP as regular baseball and PvE as a home run derby.

Thogard wrote: »

I like to think of PvP as regular baseball and PvE as a home run derby.

Personally I think of PvP as like the majors.... and PvE as tee ball.

Too far?

On the plus side, we carebears don't have to lug around those gigantic epeens.

You say that, but i've seen far more arguments over whose guild got the "world first" here on the boards than over who won a fight in cyrodil.

Okay?

What I think is not good is the unnecessary rude behaviour no matter over WHAT content.

But this is a diversion. Over the two decades I've been MMOing the preponderance of invective has been ladled out by PvPers (or as we used to call them PKs) against those who have no interest.

Why would it even matter? If "you" like PvPing...great, have at, enjoy but does that enjoyment have to include call those who don't derogatory names?

It shouldn't.

I don’t think carebear is a derogatory name. They were smart friendly bears that got along well and had adventures. They liked to hold hands. Perfect metaphor for people that don’t want to ever PvP.

Btw I wouldn’t consider PvP in this game at all synonymous with PKs from older games. In those games, you could kill whoever you wanted to. In this game, you can only kill people who have signed up for it by entering special zones specifically designated for PvP. Now if I could go into Malabal tor and kill everyone at the Bandari tradepost, that’d make me a PK. And that’d be awesome.

Most of the “look down on PvE’ers” from past games was because the care bears back then couldn’t avoid PvP and would get farmed like the sheep they were. And of course we’d look down on them - they were easy to kill, utterly predictable, and would send the most hilarious hate messages. This game doesn’t have that. I wish it did, but it doesn’t, and it won’t.

DieAlteHexe

Aisle9 wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

I like to think of PvP as regular baseball and PvE as a home run derby.

Thogard wrote: »

I like to think of PvP as regular baseball and PvE as a home run derby.

Personally I think of PvP as like the majors.... and PvE as tee ball.

Too far?

On the plus side, we carebears don't have to lug around those gigantic epeens.

...

OF COURSE YOU DON'T... Only them toxic PvP baddies feel the need to swing them around...

Just the immature ones.

Why does that can't apply to PvP players as well ?

Sorry, not sure what you're asking?

let me clarify

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

I like to think of PvP as regular baseball and PvE as a home run derby.

Thogard wrote: »

I like to think of PvP as regular baseball and PvE as a home run derby.

Personally I think of PvP as like the majors.... and PvE as tee ball.

Too far?

On the plus side, we carebears don't have to lug around those gigantic epeens.

Just the immature ones.

To which you said:

"Why does that can't apply to PvP players as well ?"

Did you mean "PvE" players? Sure, there can be jerks there too but for 20 years I've seen far more invective hurled from the PvP side at those who don't PvP.

Either way, it's the immature ones that are the issue. Anyone who takes this seriously enough to start name calling might want to give their behaviour some thought.

If that's not what you meant, I still don't understand.

No, I meant that you only receive derogatory comments from the immature ones, because the mature players generally don't care.

Problem is, that translates into "100% of PvP players do that" because you don't get the "GF" or "WP" from the PvP players that won't.

iBut If we're looking at PvE, though, no, only a small percentage of them does that (/sarcasm). There's no such thing as people kicking players from groups because they're under a certain amount of CP or because they don't have a MA weapon.

Well, I certainly don't think 100% of PvPers are immature prats, nor have I said so. Unfortunately there does seem to be a fair amount of immature ones. I haven't experience of what you describe about PvE so I can't comment there.

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

I like to think of PvP as regular baseball and PvE as a home run derby.

Thogard wrote: »

I like to think of PvP as regular baseball and PvE as a home run derby.

Personally I think of PvP as like the majors.... and PvE as tee ball.

Too far?

On the plus side, we carebears don't have to lug around those gigantic epeens.

You say that, but i've seen far more arguments over whose guild got the "world first" here on the boards than over who won a fight in cyrodil.

Okay?

What I think is not good is the unnecessary rude behaviour no matter over WHAT content.

But this is a diversion. Over the two decades I've been MMOing the preponderance of invective has been ladled out by PvPers (or as we used to call them PKs) against those who have no interest.

Why would it even matter? If "you" like PvPing...great, have at, enjoy but does that enjoyment have to include call those who don't derogatory names?

It shouldn't.

What you call "rude behavior" I call taunting the opponent, which is a common practice in competitions. And the fact you advocate against it is the reason you are called Carebears. If another player start sending you whispers you can ignore.

You don't want to be taunted or mocked, don't join PvP content. That said, only a small percentage of the population does it.

Also, fun fact: In two years playing this game I've been t-bagged more by PvE Heroes than from actual PvP players, and mostly out of revenge for when the PvP leets did it to them.

Food for thoughts.

And how is taunting someone not rude?

Plus why can't PvP be done in a manner where it's a decent, friendly contest of skill or mechanics or planning? Why does there need to be nastiness? We used to discuss fights after they were over with the opposition; we learned from it. There was a camaraderie there and less of this "t-bagging" silliness. I mean really, dropping one's e-*** on someone's face?

Right then.

monktoasty

Pvpers are nothing but griefers

DieAlteHexe

monktoasty wrote: »

Pvpers are nothing but griefers

Awww that's not true. I've known some really nice, decent PvPers over the years.

Unfortunately the ones who behave like toddlers who didn't get their naps cast the rest in a bad light.

Thogard

monktoasty wrote: »

Pvpers are nothing but griefers

I feel like you don’t know what that word used to mean in the context of MMOs 10 years ago.

Ragnarock41

as a PvP player, I do believe PvE is a walk in the park, the only hard part is learning your rotation, after that everything is super easy.

Obviously just finishing a trial and finishing it with style are two different things, but still, fact remains.