ZOS, Please Rethink Your Decision to Penalize Nightblade Sneak Speed

GrumpyDuckling

You designed Nightblade with specific focuses on stealth/sneaking, but you penalize the class' sneak speed (same as every other class) unless the character becomes a vampire (for Dark Stalker passive) or uses up a 5 piece set bonus (Night's Silence or Shadow Dancer's Raiment).

It seems like an odd decision to penalize sneaking on the class that you designed for stealth! Might I suggest adding the "Ignore the Movement Speed penalty while in Crouch" coding into the current Nightblade passive Dark Veil? That, or a similar decision, seems logical.

Because I know people will bring it up, yes, Concealed Weapon offers a separate movement bonus while stealthed or invisible, which is great for magicka Nightblades. It's not as useful for Stamina Nightblades, who have to give up a key skill in Surprise Attack to access Concealed Weapon.

Edit: Updated on 5/28/18 to tag class reps that I could find.

@Alcast
@Checkmath
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@Hexys
@Joy_Division
@KenaPKK
@Liofa
@Masel92
@Quantum_V
@stileanima
@Tasear

Gilvoth

even with vampire passive it is still far too slow.

zenimax, please increase sneak speeds.
please also make it so we cant be pulled out of stealth.
if we go into stealth we should be able to stay in stealth.

Apache_Kid

You're going to get so many mad people in here who have never played a nightblade and complain that stealth is OP without realizing how many direct, hard-counters there are to stealth in this game. I agree that stamblades should have an option for faster movement in stealth without having to use the wrong skill morph. They can't afford to give up surprise attack.

Rohamad_Ali

Oh yes sure , I miss my stealth race car Magblade speeds . If it will help stamblades I am willing to vote for it back . Think of the stamblades ZoS .

GimpyPorcupine

Stamblades don't need any buffs.

GrumpyDuckling

GimpyPorcupine wrote: »

Stamblades don't need any buffs.

Is it really that much of a buff to Stamblades if we allowed them to drop vampirism? It's more aesthetic than anything.

f047ys3v3n

As much as I miss having sneak speed (as a mageblade I am not so fast) I am also happy that every once in a while I do actually cloak now when I hit the cloke button. I also agree that stamblades are plenty fast and annoying already without any buffs.

GrumpyDuckling

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

As much as I miss having sneak speed (as a mageblade I am not so fast) I am also happy that every once in a while I do actually cloak now when I hit the cloke button. I also agree that stamblades are plenty fast and annoying already without any buffs.

What buffs are you talking about to Stamblade?

Subversus

It's funny that the stealthy assassin nightblade moves as fast in stealth as the tank class of eso, a dk, if they're both using vamp.

Koolio

Me personally.

I would say remove the extra spell damage in stealth passive and add the concealed weapon passive to that spot. Give concealed something else.

GimpyPorcupine

Stamblades in 7 pieces of medium already have a highly-reduced sneak radius meaning they can get close. They have 89% sneak cost reduction (with 16 legerdemain, 4 points in improved hiding) so they burn almost no stamina to sneak. And they have enough stamina to use rapids and sneak.

You don't want to become a Vampire, but that will only cost you 6 skill points for the passives, you're Stam and Mag regen will be increased, your damage taken while low health will be decreased, and the only penalty you get in taking increased fire damage, which you shouldn't be around for anyway.

And you want the mobility of a Mageblade without sacrificing any of your insanely high burst.

Seriously, guys, you have it darn good now.

Edit for mistakes and clarity.

GrumpyDuckling

GimpyPorcupine wrote: »

Stamblades in 7 pieces of medium already have a highly-reduced sneak radius meaning they can get close. They have 89% sneak cost reduction (with 16 legerdemain, 4 points in improved hiding) so they burn almost no stamina to sneak. And they have enough stamina to use rapids and sneak.

You don't want to become a Vampire, but that will only cost you 6 skill points for the passives, you're Stam and Mag regen will be increased, your damage taken while low health will be decreased, and the only penalty you get in taking increased fire damage, which you shouldn't be around for anyway.

And you want the mobility of a Mageblade without sacrificing any of your insanely high burst.

Seriously, guys, you have it darn good now.

Edit for mistakes and clarity.

Did you read the original post for this thread? It doesn't ask for Stamblades to have the same mobility of Magblades. One person in post #3 said something about it, but no one else asked for it.

Colecovision

I think a Khajiit NB in particular should have no stealth penalty. Or all Khajiit. It's a cat, that's what they do.

Rohamad_Ali

Colecovision wrote: »

I think a Khajiit NB in particular should have no stealth penalty. Or all Khajiit. It's a cat, that's what they do.

This guys going places .

Apache_Kid

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

GimpyPorcupine wrote: »

Stamblades in 7 pieces of medium already have a highly-reduced sneak radius meaning they can get close. They have 89% sneak cost reduction (with 16 legerdemain, 4 points in improved hiding) so they burn almost no stamina to sneak. And they have enough stamina to use rapids and sneak.

You don't want to become a Vampire, but that will only cost you 6 skill points for the passives, you're Stam and Mag regen will be increased, your damage taken while low health will be decreased, and the only penalty you get in taking increased fire damage, which you shouldn't be around for anyway.

And you want the mobility of a Mageblade without sacrificing any of your insanely high burst.

Seriously, guys, you have it darn good now.

Edit for mistakes and clarity.

Did you read the original post for this thread? It doesn't ask for Stamblades to have the same mobility of Magblades. One person in post #3 said something about it, but no one else asked for it.

And even I who asked for it know it's not going to happen.

Undefwun

With the amount of tears about our "magical fairy all defeating I WIN with 1 button' cloak... this won't happen...

If cloak worked half as well as people seem to think it would actually be OP...

Apache_Kid

Undefwun wrote: »

With the amount of tears about our "magical fairy all defeating I WIN with 1 button' cloak... this won't happen...

If cloak worked half as well as people seem to think it would actually be OP...

People don't understand how hard it is to cloak under pressure.

ak_pvp

Yeah, sure a built in sneak would be OK for nb, fits the theme and doesn't force vamp.

But this title is utter shite. The class isn't penalised because they aren't given something extra, it's just the base character penalty. Not like they lose out something from other classes.

Undefwun

Personally I think Lotus Fan should be ditched.
Make a morph that ups the magicka cost a bit, but works like original cloak morph, remove 2 negative effects.

Make the cost significant enough so a magblades can't run across the whole of cyro in cloak with that morph and stamblades who already have higher mobility and dodging, can't just spam it. They got forward momentum anyway...

So you gotta choose between low cost and guaranteed crit and high cost but remove dots/snares.

TrinityBreaker

Colecovision wrote: »

I think a Khajiit NB in particular should have no stealth penalty. Or all Khajiit. It's a cat, that's what they do.

I would seriously love this for my khajiit characters

GrumpyDuckling

ak_pvp wrote: »

Yeah, sure a built in sneak would be OK for nb, fits the theme and doesn't force vamp.

But this title is utter shite. The class isn't penalised because they aren't given something extra, it's just the base character penalty. Not like they lose out something from other classes.

Yes, every character and every class is penalized. The game itself uses that exact word to describe the slowed-down sneak speed.

Example:


I think it's logical to say that the class designed for sneak should not receive the penalty for sneaking.

Nerouyn

Disagree completely.

ZO have seemingly realised the error of their ways in giving each prof a specific advantage in particular pursuits, eg. Nightblades now have a direct heal. As do sorcs and to a less extent wardens and dks.

Personally I think they've done a good job with thieving / assassination gameplay but I don't love the nightblade class. But this former sneak speed advantage and the remaining advantage of having a stealth ability means all of my non-NBs characters are disadvantaged for this gameplay.

That's going to discourage a lot of people from doing it. And worse - two DLCs are focused specifically on these activities which one class has an advantage at. It's quite possible that this seriously hurt sales of those DLCs.

FrancisCrawford

I do hate that giving my stamblade Concealed Weapon -- so that he's the best possible thief -- really interferes with his dungeon DPS potential.

GrumpyDuckling

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

I do hate that giving my stamblade Concealed Weapon -- so that he's the best possible thief -- really interferes with his dungeon DPS potential.

Understandable. It would be nice to have pre-set builds that we could switch between for our characters depending on the content.

Ectheliontnacil

Tbh honest I would be happy with cloak simply removing all snares from the character .

kaithuzar

What I don't understand was all of the previous complaining! Night's Silence was a CRAFTABLE set! Anyone could use it! It PREVIOUSLY gave super increased movement speed! For some reason unbeknownst to me, 99% of the population that weren't Nightblades, complained because Nightblades were running it & they were too fast /cry
Anyone could use it & it was reduced to the trash that it is now, never to be touched again by anyone not trying to role play.
It should have been left alone the entire time & now/ for over a year, a stam dk using unchained passive with rapid is faster & cheaper than my concealed + double take+cloak expensive combo!

Ragnarock41

Sure, change stealth so Its not a god-mode toggle,so that my dots actually work on you.

then you can have your stealth speed.

Undefwun

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Sure, change stealth so Its not a god-mode toggle,so that my dots actually work on you.

then you can have your stealth speed.

Stealth via cloak is so far removed from god mode that this has to be baiting...

Forget dots.. someone breathing in your general direction breaks cloak...

Joosef_Kivikilpi

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

You designed Nightblade with specific focuses on stealth/sneaking, but you penalize the class' sneak speed (same as every other class) unless the character becomes a vampire (for Dark Stalker passive) or uses up a 5 piece set bonus (Night's Silence or Shadow Dancer's Raiment).

It seems like an odd decision to penalize sneaking on the class that you designed for stealth! Might I suggest adding the "Ignore the Movement Speed penalty while in Crouch" coding into the current Nightblade passive Dark Veil? That, or a similar decision, seems logical.

Because I know people will bring it up, yes, Concealed Weapon offers a separate movement bonus while stealthed or invisible, which is great for magicka Nightblades. It's not as useful for Stamina Nightblades, who have to give up a key skill in Surprise Attack to access Concealed Weapon.

This ^ ---> I'm SO tired of Vampires always being picked for OP reasons AND they get sneak speed buffs.

Please let normal humans have a decent chance at sneaking.

Ideas:

1. Make Night Silence 5 piece give another bonus like weapon damage (like the reduce detection radius 5 piece set or Shadow's Raiment).
2. Give it in a passive for Thieves Guild OR Dark Brotherhood for max rank.
3. OR Legerdemain so people don't complain it's "Pay to Win" (because Shadow Mount 50% NPC detection radius on mount isn't pay to win when you can escape pvp characters in Imperial City because you're on your horse going through NPCs and they aggro on your enemy instead of you hahaha /s)

casparian

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

GimpyPorcupine wrote: »

Stamblades don't need any buffs.

Is it really that much of a buff to Stamblades if we allowed them to drop vampirism? It's more aesthetic than anything.

Do you play PVP?

GrumpyDuckling

casparian wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

GimpyPorcupine wrote: »

Stamblades don't need any buffs.

Is it really that much of a buff to Stamblades if we allowed them to drop vampirism? It's more aesthetic than anything.

Do you play PVP?

Yes.

Perhaps you're hinting at vampires having increased fire damage received? Stamblades are pretty squishy to begin with.