After permablock gets nerfed any chance of restoring what made heavy unique?

Chilly-McFreeze

Irylia wrote: »

Pc na?

Don’t need that extra damage considering the huge wpn dmg sets heavy already has

Aye, pigeonholing into 7th, ravager and fury?

Irylia

ak_pvp wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Yes we had a tank meta, but that was more due to the state of block being rather easy, med armour being bad, and DKs/Templars having limited other defenses. The blanket nerfs that were put in place hardly affected those who built to the meta, and instead hit those who didn't harder. This is why I propose:

Restore wrath and unnerf constitution. The 200 wp/sp and regen DIDN'T create, (and the removal of which didn't remove) the tank meta. It instead allowed players some small bonuses when under constant fire. Yeah, can we please get that back, hell even take away the heavy attack restore, something that PvE tanks can't use, maybe even slightly lower the resistances, PvE tanks never stack full and heavily depend on blocking, extra regen would help.

Only BAD PvE Tanks do not use the fully charge heavy attacks to restore stamina its a really big and helpful tool for the end game tank, and after repentance was removed it become one of our main sources of sustain for trash pulls. Also the reason we don't have to stack resistance is cause we have enough of it from the base heavy armor and the passives around it and other sources of resistance, lowering the sources of resistance will not be helpful in anyway, and lowering it too much will cause harm to PvE Tanks too. Though I am all in favor of un-nerfing constitution a bit, especially if the numbers we are expecting from block cost are true, I would even be ok with it being a slightly longer delay between it proccing.

Its true that tanks do heavy attack in certain circumstances such as when bosses are moving. Though things like axes on vAA are a lot harder to. And a better constitution would be more beneficial in a more variety of areas. As for resist, its just an example area that wouldn't be terminally costly to nerf a little, so that its not seen as too OP. I mean we can always do away with the health recovery.

Irylia wrote: »

Pc na?

Don’t need that extra damage considering the huge wpn dmg sets heavy already has

PC/EU And that is fair enough, if you are not a Magplar/magDK/Magden without the crazy damage sets and just took a nerf for the sake of it.

Sun
Bsw

While I agree mag needs access to some better high dps sets we also have better utility skills for group situations and generally can stack max mag easier which is damage.

I do think it would Be nice to get a heavy armor mag spell damage set that can rival 7th/fury/ravager/truth

Derra

ak_pvp wrote: »

Yes we had a tank meta...

That´s how far i got into reading this post before i felt the irresistable urge to reply.
What in the world makes you believe that the tank meta ended at some point?
All i see are tanks.

Edit: After reading the whole thing. No. Heavyarmor still considerably outperforms light and medium in a direct comparison on builds not utilizing 1h + shield (and block as a primary defensive mechanic for the sake of the argument) at this very moment.
No.

montjie

ak_pvp wrote: »

montjie wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

YYeah, can we please get that back, hell even take away the heavy attack restore, something that PvE tanks can't use, maybe even slightly lower the resistances, PvE tanks never stack full and heavily depend on blocking, extra regen would help.

Are you confusing PvE with PvP here or am I missing something?
If not, educate yourself.

How often do you see tanks stack max resistance. Oh yeah, they don't. Most aim for 40k health and low block cost, because with bloodspawn they go over the resist cap.

you just go ahead and partially respond lol
btw not every tank runs bloodspawn and even if so...wouldnt that be part of the resistance stacking too?

ak_pvp: "tanks dont stack max resistances because when theyve put on their armor pieces and bloodspawn procs all the resistances together (stacked) reach resistance cap."

ill just leave it at you sure like contradicting yourself dont you

ak_pvp

Derra wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Yes we had a tank meta...

That´s how far i got into reading this post before i felt the irresistable urge to reply.
What in the world makes you believe that the tank meta ended at some point?
All i see are tanks.

Edit: After reading the whole thing. No. Heavyarmor still considerably outperforms light and medium in a direct comparison on builds not utilizing 1h + shield (and block as a primary defensive mechanic for the sake of the argument) at this very moment.
No.

There are still the wardens and the stamDKs (the latter effectively has to run heavy) But magplars who want to do other than be healbots, many magDKs and mag warden run light. Stamsorc/Stamplar can, and do frequently run medium.

This is after block gets nerfed, and would solve the issue of the heavier tanks. (After seeing the edit) Even without blocking still personally find light to be a much better, not having access to sets like 7th for my main/s and I run dw. I would say that heavy is better for stam than medium, mainly because medium sux and they have great sets like 7th, ravager etc. But in that case why nerf it for mag?

On the sets, I think they are fine because they really only get strong in outnumbered situations, instead of nerfing the life of everything, buff the other stuff.

ak_pvp

montjie wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

montjie wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

YYeah, can we please get that back, hell even take away the heavy attack restore, something that PvE tanks can't use, maybe even slightly lower the resistances, PvE tanks never stack full and heavily depend on blocking, extra regen would help.

Are you confusing PvE with PvP here or am I missing something?
If not, educate yourself.

How often do you see tanks stack max resistance. Oh yeah, they don't. Most aim for 40k health and low block cost, because with bloodspawn they go over the resist cap.

you just go ahead and partially respond lol
btw not every tank runs bloodspawn and even if so...wouldnt that be part of the resistance stacking too?

ak_pvp: "tanks dont stack max resistances because when theyve put on their armor pieces and bloodspawn procs all the resistances together (stacked) reach resistance cap."

ill just leave it at you sure like contradicting yourself dont you

Block/health>Resist. Losing 500 resist (assuming they take 100 per heavy away) wouldn't hurt nearly as much as losing block/resources. Bloodspawn is used for ult. Was just example too, the health regen could be taken away and no one would complain, but then you'd have cries of "WAHHH" OP.

TL;DR Nonsense whining for sake of whining.

paulsimonps

montjie wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

montjie wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

YYeah, can we please get that back, hell even take away the heavy attack restore, something that PvE tanks can't use, maybe even slightly lower the resistances, PvE tanks never stack full and heavily depend on blocking, extra regen would help.

Are you confusing PvE with PvP here or am I missing something?
If not, educate yourself.

How often do you see tanks stack max resistance. Oh yeah, they don't. Most aim for 40k health and low block cost, because with bloodspawn they go over the resist cap.

you just go ahead and partially respond lol
btw not every tank runs bloodspawn and even if so...wouldnt that be part of the resistance stacking too?

ak_pvp: "tanks dont stack max resistances because when theyve put on their armor pieces and bloodspawn procs all the resistances together (stacked) reach resistance cap."

ill just leave it at you sure like contradicting yourself dont you

Nobody uses Bloodspawn for the resistance.... its WAY to inconsistent to rely upon, its the ultimate and nothing more, as well it won't get you to physical resistance cap unless you try, and only reason you would get spell cap is cause its way easier to get cause most people that play Tanky is DK, Wardens and in PvP also Templars, all classes with passives into spell resistance.

Derra

ak_pvp wrote: »

This is after block gets nerfed, and would solve the issue of the heavier tanks. (After seeing the edit) Even without blocking still personally find light to be a much better, not having access to sets like 7th for my main/s and I run dw. I would say that heavy is better for stam than medium, mainly because medium sux and they have great sets like 7th, ravager etc. But in that case why nerf it for mag?

My statement was from the perspective of a magica templar and nightblade (and i would run heavy over light on a DK aswell).

Light is an option nowadays - but if you carefully evaluate the performance of light vs heavy on builds where the choice is existant (aka not 2 dropped light sets) i can´t think of many scenarios where light wins over heavy.
The only class where i would always choose light is sorc - even for a non shield build because of how the class works in regard to selfheals.

If i put on the same setup (in my case 2 monster 5bsw 5 alchemist) in heavy and in light and fight opponents over a couple of days and evaluate all fights the only time light comes out on top is when fighting magica opponents utilizing heavyarmor and no healdebuffs.
It´s worse against anything stamina, it´s worse against anything with a healdebuff and it´s worse against anything utilizing shields (note that i only changed the armorweight not the build).

Ragnarock41

at the moment heavy feels fine to be honest.
If zos nerfs sets like seventh/ravager/fury, in that case they should put wrath back in the game.

On my sDk heavy builds feel weak, but medium is even worse.

On my warden tho, medium is amazing, and heavy is just broken good.