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Time to move...
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T4T2FR34K✭✭✭✭✭Well I guess caltrops is where it always was (looking at it again) but vigor needs to move back to the end (like it used to be).
p.s. Blade of Woe definitely needs to be moved to the end or at the very least level 6-8...Edited by T4T2FR34K on December 3, 2017 3:07PM0 -
T4T2FR34K✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »
Where does it say I said it did?
*points*
Your attempt is a fail bud, just walk away...0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »
Where does it say I said it did?
*points*
Your attempt is a fail bud, just walk away...
Right there; you don't see it?
Seriously though, Blade of Woe is critical for non-Nightblades in that questline. It might also be critical for a lot of Nightblades.
If your from stealth damage is high enough, you can straight up execute NPCs without leaving stealth, meaning the BoW is significantly less valuable than your basic heavy attack. This means you're a very specific, high weapon damage, high crit, Stamblade.
If your damage isn't that high, because you're not a stamblade, you'll be forced out of stealth, and won't be able to do the Dark Brotherhood questline. To say nothing of how it would make the sacriments effectively impossible until after you've been grinding the sacriments for awhile.
You could still kill your targets, but it would get messy, guards would get involved, you'd be spending a mountain of gold to clear your name, just to be able to play through... and then you'd unlock it, after you'd more than halfway finished the questline.
Yeah, that would suck.5 -
T4T2FR34K✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »
Where does it say I said it did?
*points*
Your attempt is a fail bud, just walk away...
Right there; you don't see it?
Seriously though, Blade of Woe is critical for non-Nightblades in that questline. It might also be critical for a lot of Nightblades.
If your from stealth damage is high enough, you can straight up execute NPCs without leaving stealth, meaning the BoW is significantly less valuable than your basic heavy attack. This means you're a very specific, high weapon damage, high crit, Stamblade.
If your damage isn't that high, because you're not a stamblade, you'll be forced out of stealth, and won't be able to do the Dark Brotherhood questline. To say nothing of how it would make the sacriments effectively impossible until after you've been grinding the sacriments for awhile.
You could still kill your targets, but it would get messy, guards would get involved, you'd be spending a mountain of gold to clear your name, just to be able to play through... and then you'd unlock it, after you'd more than halfway finished the questline.
Yeah, that would suck.
As it should be...WITH BoW as is, its an easy button...no fresh off the boat characters should be running around one hitting NPC's from stealth...
p.s. people who spend 1 day in cyrodill shouldn't be getting vigor either...the reason MD and Vigor flip flopped was when VD and Bombing was FoTM
Edited by T4T2FR34K on December 3, 2017 4:08PM0 -
Mettaricana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Actually i think caltrops and vigor need to be moved to 1-3 rank so pve can get warhorn vigor and caltrops and get outta cyrodiil so pvpers can stay in cyrodiil with less lag from pvpers just trying to get 2-3 skills12 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »
Where does it say I said it did?
*points*
Your attempt is a fail bud, just walk away...
Right there; you don't see it?
Seriously though, Blade of Woe is critical for non-Nightblades in that questline. It might also be critical for a lot of Nightblades.
If your from stealth damage is high enough, you can straight up execute NPCs without leaving stealth, meaning the BoW is significantly less valuable than your basic heavy attack. This means you're a very specific, high weapon damage, high crit, Stamblade.
If your damage isn't that high, because you're not a stamblade, you'll be forced out of stealth, and won't be able to do the Dark Brotherhood questline. To say nothing of how it would make the sacriments effectively impossible until after you've been grinding the sacriments for awhile.
You could still kill your targets, but it would get messy, guards would get involved, you'd be spending a mountain of gold to clear your name, just to be able to play through... and then you'd unlock it, after you'd more than halfway finished the questline.
Yeah, that would suck.
As it should be...WITH BoW as is, its an easy button...
No, you don't understand. Without BoW, the Dark Brotherhood DLC would be unplayable for the vast majority of players, and it would have a knock-on effect of rendering the entire game unplayable for that character.Edited by starkerealm on December 3, 2017 4:07PM5 -
Unfadingsilence✭✭✭✭✭
✭starkerealm wrote: »
When ppl started using it in pvp In IC during the last event down there to one shot flag bosses...... jk never moved to the assault line but ya ppl where doing that all day long1 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭p.s. people who spend 1 day in cyrodill shouldn't be getting vigor either...the reason MD and Vigor flip flopped was when VD and Bombing was FoTM
Nah. Get them out of Cyrodiil as fast as possible. Unless you're talking about ganking the PvEers running around Cropsford, in which case... bwhwahaha. No, we need newbies coming in. If they hang around, they'll learn our tricks.
2 -
T4T2FR34K✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »
Where does it say I said it did?
*points*
Your attempt is a fail bud, just walk away...
Right there; you don't see it?
Seriously though, Blade of Woe is critical for non-Nightblades in that questline. It might also be critical for a lot of Nightblades.
If your from stealth damage is high enough, you can straight up execute NPCs without leaving stealth, meaning the BoW is significantly less valuable than your basic heavy attack. This means you're a very specific, high weapon damage, high crit, Stamblade.
If your damage isn't that high, because you're not a stamblade, you'll be forced out of stealth, and won't be able to do the Dark Brotherhood questline. To say nothing of how it would make the sacriments effectively impossible until after you've been grinding the sacriments for awhile.
You could still kill your targets, but it would get messy, guards would get involved, you'd be spending a mountain of gold to clear your name, just to be able to play through... and then you'd unlock it, after you'd more than halfway finished the questline.
Yeah, that would suck.
As it should be...WITH BoW as is, its an easy button...
No, you don't understand. Without BoW, the Dark Brotherhood DLC would be unplayable for the vast majority of players, and it would have a knock-on effect of rendering the entire game unplayable for that character.
No I understand PERFECTLY, the only reason I'm doing the quest line is because it gives Skill Points...as it is I get the BoW right off the bat and don't really NEED any of the skill line...because I have the BoW...get it?
i.e. it needs to be EARNED and as is it just further marginalizes NB's...Edited by T4T2FR34K on December 3, 2017 4:29PM0 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The quest lines and achievements require the blade of woe from the beginning.2 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »
Where does it say I said it did?
*points*
Your attempt is a fail bud, just walk away...
Right there; you don't see it?
Seriously though, Blade of Woe is critical for non-Nightblades in that questline. It might also be critical for a lot of Nightblades.
If your from stealth damage is high enough, you can straight up execute NPCs without leaving stealth, meaning the BoW is significantly less valuable than your basic heavy attack. This means you're a very specific, high weapon damage, high crit, Stamblade.
If your damage isn't that high, because you're not a stamblade, you'll be forced out of stealth, and won't be able to do the Dark Brotherhood questline. To say nothing of how it would make the sacriments effectively impossible until after you've been grinding the sacriments for awhile.
You could still kill your targets, but it would get messy, guards would get involved, you'd be spending a mountain of gold to clear your name, just to be able to play through... and then you'd unlock it, after you'd more than halfway finished the questline.
Yeah, that would suck.
As it should be...WITH BoW as is, its an easy button...
No, you don't understand. Without BoW, the Dark Brotherhood DLC would be unplayable for the vast majority of players, and it would have a knock-on effect of rendering the entire game unplayable for that character.
No I understand PERFECTLY, the only reason I'm doing the quest line is because it gives Skill Points...as it is I get the BoW right off the bat and don't really NEED any of the skill line...because I have the BoW...get it?
i.e. it needs to be EARNED and as is it just further marginalizes NB's...
So, I take it, you've never actually run a non-NB through the DB questline.
To be fair, I can't blame you if you haven't. I have. If you're not a Stamblade, you need Blade of Woe to even engage with the content. Even then, it's not easy.
The Easy Button for Dark Brotherhood (and Thieves Guild, for that matter) isn't Blade of Woe, it's Cloak. That little ****er is what trivializes those quests. Yes, you still need to pay attention, but it does let you blow through so much of those questlines, it's not even funny.1 -
T4T2FR34K✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »
Where does it say I said it did?
*points*
Your attempt is a fail bud, just walk away...
Right there; you don't see it?
Seriously though, Blade of Woe is critical for non-Nightblades in that questline. It might also be critical for a lot of Nightblades.
If your from stealth damage is high enough, you can straight up execute NPCs without leaving stealth, meaning the BoW is significantly less valuable than your basic heavy attack. This means you're a very specific, high weapon damage, high crit, Stamblade.
If your damage isn't that high, because you're not a stamblade, you'll be forced out of stealth, and won't be able to do the Dark Brotherhood questline. To say nothing of how it would make the sacriments effectively impossible until after you've been grinding the sacriments for awhile.
You could still kill your targets, but it would get messy, guards would get involved, you'd be spending a mountain of gold to clear your name, just to be able to play through... and then you'd unlock it, after you'd more than halfway finished the questline.
Yeah, that would suck.
As it should be...WITH BoW as is, its an easy button...
No, you don't understand. Without BoW, the Dark Brotherhood DLC would be unplayable for the vast majority of players, and it would have a knock-on effect of rendering the entire game unplayable for that character.
No I understand PERFECTLY, the only reason I'm doing the quest line is because it gives Skill Points...as it is I get the BoW right off the bat and don't really NEED any of the skill line...because I have the BoW...get it?
i.e. it needs to be EARNED and as is it just further marginalizes NB's...
So, I take it, you've never actually run a non-NB through the DB questline.
To be fair, I can't blame you if you haven't. I have. If you're not a Stamblade, you need Blade of Woe to even engage with the content. Even then, it's not easy.
The Easy Button for Dark Brotherhood (and Thieves Guild, for that matter) isn't Blade of Woe, it's Cloak. That little ****er is what trivializes those quests. Yes, you still need to pay attention, but it does let you blow through so much of those questlines, it's not even funny.
LOL, I don't care if its "hard" for them to be assassins...that's one of the benefits of being a NB...just like being a Sorc has its, etc, etc...giving people the Blade right up front just makes NB weaker overall...give me a quest line where I get massive heals trinket or I can stack shields...
i.e. give me something from each of the other classes core abilities and we'll call it even.
p.s. ok in hind sight I guess that's the Fighters/Mages guild lines...
p.s.s. and I'm not advocating taking it away completely...it just needs to NOT be the first thing you get...as a rookie recruit to the DB...
p.s.s.s. and the PvE'rs need to EARN Vigor too....I wasn't happy when they changed it a couple years ago, needs to go back since MD is no longer the BiS...which iirc you got a Colonel....Edited by T4T2FR34K on December 3, 2017 4:52PM0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LOL, I don't care if its "hard" for them to be assassins...that's one of the benefits of being a NB...
So, you're selling a piece of content, and telling players that, unless they chose one class out of four possible options at character creation, they won't be able to complete it. Except, of course, this is ZOS, so they're not even told that up front. They have to find that out later, after they get into the questline.
Given what ZOS has done to the Dark Brotherhood lore, getting BoW up front makes sense.
Your Nightblade will always be an assassin. That is their class.
Your non-NB who joins the Dark Brotherhood will become an assassin. That's the job they signed on to do. If you think there should have been more, you know, training, going in. Maybe. But, for the vast majority of players, the BoW is a necessary tool to play through the campaign.
Hell, in Oblivion, the BoW was the first thing you were given by Lucien. So having Terenus hand you it at the beginning, is kinda a callback. Particularly to any player who slept in Anvil after their first murder. Granted, Oblivion and Skyrim had vastly different takes on the BoW in comparison to ESO. But, the idea that being able sneak attack someone should be part of an assassin's toolkit kinda makes sense.4 -
T4T2FR34K✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »LOL, I don't care if its "hard" for them to be assassins...that's one of the benefits of being a NB...
So, you're selling a piece of content, and telling players that, unless they chose one class out of four possible options at character creation, they won't be able to complete it.
That's BS and you know it...all they have to do is learn the 2H skill line and everything done with BoW can be done with WB from stealth....
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zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
PvP need new players, lots has come for vigor and stayed.starkerealm wrote: »p.s. people who spend 1 day in cyrodill shouldn't be getting vigor either...the reason MD and Vigor flip flopped was when VD and Bombing was FoTM
Nah. Get them out of Cyrodiil as fast as possible. Unless you're talking about ganking the PvEers running around Cropsford, in which case... bwhwahaha. No, we need newbies coming in. If they hang around, they'll learn our tricks.Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.1 -
ZOS_Ragnar✭✭✭✭✭We have removed some posts that were baiting and off-topic. Please ensure your comments are civil and constructive.The Elder Scrolls Online - ZeniMax Online Studios
Forum Rules | Code of Conduct | Terms of Service | Home Page | Help Site0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »LOL, I don't care if its "hard" for them to be assassins...that's one of the benefits of being a NB...
So, you're selling a piece of content, and telling players that, unless they chose one class out of four possible options at character creation, they won't be able to complete it.
That's BS and you know it...all they have to do is learn the 2H skill line and everything done with BoW can be done with WB from stealth....
Actually, no, that's not true. If you're a medium armor stamina build, sure... but if you're basically anything else? Not so much. To say nothing of how goofy the idea of a 2h as the premier stealth weapon is. Now, before you take offense, it's worth knowing, I am logged in on my 2h NB as I'm typing this, but telling a player with a mage that they can't slip a dagger up their sleeve is just downright comical.1 -
ArchMikem✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭p.s. people who spend 1 day in cyrodill shouldn't be getting vigor either...the reason MD and Vigor flip flopped was when VD and Bombing was FoTM
You want people to be grinding their heads off in the horrid place known as PvP just so they can get the one single Stamina Heal available in the game?
Kinda sounds like you just want more PvE Seals to club cause they'd be forced to spend more time in Cyrodiil.CP2,100 Master Explorer - AvA Two Star Warlord - Console Peasant - Khajiiti Aficionado - The Clan
Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!3 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭p.s. people who spend 1 day in cyrodill shouldn't be getting vigor either...the reason MD and Vigor flip flopped was when VD and Bombing was FoTM
You want people to be grinding their heads off in the horrid place known as PvP just so they can get the one single Stamina Heal available in the game?
Kinda sounds like you just want more PvE Seals to club cause they'd be forced to spend more time in Cyrodiil.
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