Summon Shades not working as intended

Masel

The skill "summon shades" and its morühs is not workign as intended, i.e. it does not do as much damage as it should.

I jsut wanted to test how much dps it does and if it would be worth using, so i used it in a normal rotation and noticed that the dps is abysmally low, despite it showing a tooltip of 1648 on my inferno staff bar.

This is the build:




In order to test the skill, i kill the precursor dummy just with the shades, i applied ele drain to show that penetration can not be the issue.
With ele drain my penetration is at around 13k, so only 5.2k from the 18.2k of veteran mobs which is aroudn 10% damage.



Loking at the parse, it just doesnt add up at all:





So the tooltip says 1,648, and the HIGHEST hit, thus a critical strike with 76% additional critical damage does 1,647?

Something is very very off here, the shades should deal a lot more damage than this. Also, the damage they do is not shown as damage numbers from the ingame combat numbers, as opposed to the sorcerer scamp for example.

@ZoS_GinaBruno, @ZOS_JessicaFolsom , please investigate.

Gilvoth

i hate how us nightblade skills simply are all just sooo weak and also that we nightblades just die sooo easily and also that we cant use our invisibility as a protection.

Smmokkee

Shade is ass just like the majority of our other skills. Zos is scared of nightblades.

Jim_Pipp

I saw another thread about nightblade shade damage and thought I would add it to this thread to make it easier for devs to see how players feel about the very cool but functionally limited shades ability.

Urza1234 wrote: »

From the UESP Eso Skill Browser

Summon Shade
$1 = 0.03003 Magicka + 0.00001 SpellDamage - 0.95708
Magicka, R2 = 1.00000, Ratio = 0.00

Dark Shades
$1 = 0.03003 Magicka + 0.00001 SpellDamage - 0.95708
Magicka, R2 = 1.00000, Ratio = 0.00

Shadow Image
$1 = 0.04004 Magicka + 0.00010 SpellDamage - 0.86677
Magicka, R2 = 0.99999, Ratio = 0.00

This skill has absolutely terrible spell damage scaling compared to other spells in the game. Serously 0.00001 spell damage, thats nuts. Playing with my in-game tooltip and stats the UESP values appear to me to be correct.

Is this skill bugged, or is it just intended to be terrible?

Masel

As it is a pet, it is normal to scale that way, sorcerer pets scale the same way (warden's bear doesn't for some reason, guess because it is an ultimate). But the damage is just lower than it should be.

Having a critical hit hit for less than the tooltip is something that never happened to me before, and just doesn't add up.

Dapper Dinosaur

The shades are meant to be a tanking skill, damage is not the point.

Although I most definitely would appreciate the skill being reworked to have one morph with the minor maim and another morph with just flat damage, so we could use it for DPS or Tank nightblades.

Masel

Jim_Pipp wrote: »

I saw another thread about nightblade shade damage and thought I would add it to this thread to make it easier for devs to see how players feel about the very cool but functionally limited shades ability.

Urza1234 wrote: »

From the UESP Eso Skill Browser

Summon Shade
$1 = 0.03003 Magicka + 0.00001 SpellDamage - 0.95708
Magicka, R2 = 1.00000, Ratio = 0.00

Dark Shades
$1 = 0.03003 Magicka + 0.00001 SpellDamage - 0.95708
Magicka, R2 = 1.00000, Ratio = 0.00

Shadow Image
$1 = 0.04004 Magicka + 0.00010 SpellDamage - 0.86677
Magicka, R2 = 0.99999, Ratio = 0.00

This skill has absolutely terrible spell damage scaling compared to other spells in the game. Serously 0.00001 spell damage, thats nuts. Playing with my in-game tooltip and stats the UESP values appear to me to be correct.

Is this skill bugged, or is it just intended to be terrible?

Also, the 0.00010 is probably just 0. Regressions always have a small error in them as the r-squared is not 1, but 0.99999 in this case. The sample will be large enough, but without knowing the true population function it is always a bit off.

Masel

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

The shades are meant to be a tanking skill, damage is not the point.

Although I most definitely would appreciate the skill being reworked to have one morph with the minor maim and another morph with just flat damage, so we could use it for DPS or Tank nightblades.

The tooltip of dark shades is not bad at all, 1.6k every second is quite a lot, it lasts ~17 seconds and is fairly cheap to cast.

It just doesn't do the damage it should.

I'll hop onto the pts later on, create an empty char and then do an exact simulation.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

Masel92 wrote: »

As it is a pet, it is normal to scale that way, sorcerer pets scale the same way (warden's bear doesn't for some reason, guess because it is an ultimate). But the damage is just lower than it should be.

Having a critical hit hit for less than the tooltip is something that never happened to me before, and just doesn't add up.

Yea as you can’t kill the Shade I don’t have a problem with it’s scaling it’s basically a dodgable unpurgable DoT. But when crit hits do less or equal damage as the tool tip the damage was nerfed and never logged.

With all the bugs to Nightblade after the patch it’s only fair to think Nightblades were ninja nerfed. It’s the only thing that makes sense. Why would so many powers from one class break all at once? All gap closers work as teleports now so why just one breaking?

Kuramas9tails

I only use shade for necropotence and to port to him in emergencies In Cyrodiil but I already made a comment on the Bug forum that at times when you teleport back to the shade, you’ll be frozen and won’t teleport. Many a times have I died to being frozen from this bug. It does *** damage.

Masel

Kuramas9tails wrote: »

I only use shade for necropotence and to port to him in emergencies In Cyrodiil but I already made a comment on the Bug forum that at times when you teleport back to the shade, you’ll be frozen and won’t teleport. Many a times have I died to being frozen from this bug. It does *** damage.

I used it more from a PvE perspective, the dark shades morph. It technically does twice the damage, as it hits twice as often. Problem is that it just doesn't do the damage it should, this applies to all morphs and the Base skill though.

Jim_Pipp

Masel92 wrote: »

Jim_Pipp wrote: »

I saw another thread about nightblade shade damage and thought I would add it to this thread to make it easier for devs to see how players feel about the very cool but functionally limited shades ability.

Urza1234 wrote: »

From the UESP Eso Skill Browser

Summon Shade
$1 = 0.03003 Magicka + 0.00001 SpellDamage - 0.95708
Magicka, R2 = 1.00000, Ratio = 0.00

Dark Shades
$1 = 0.03003 Magicka + 0.00001 SpellDamage - 0.95708
Magicka, R2 = 1.00000, Ratio = 0.00

Shadow Image
$1 = 0.04004 Magicka + 0.00010 SpellDamage - 0.86677
Magicka, R2 = 0.99999, Ratio = 0.00

This skill has absolutely terrible spell damage scaling compared to other spells in the game. Serously 0.00001 spell damage, thats nuts. Playing with my in-game tooltip and stats the UESP values appear to me to be correct.

Is this skill bugged, or is it just intended to be terrible?

Also, the 0.00010 is probably just 0. Regressions always have a small error in them as the r-squared is not 1, but 0.99999 in this case. The sample will be large enough, but without knowing the true population function it is always a bit off.

Masel92, I (and probably many, many others) really do appreciate all you do to investigate, test and above all explain the real mechanics of the game... but I really didn't understand any of what you just wrote!

Masel

Jim_Pipp wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

Jim_Pipp wrote: »

I saw another thread about nightblade shade damage and thought I would add it to this thread to make it easier for devs to see how players feel about the very cool but functionally limited shades ability.

Urza1234 wrote: »

From the UESP Eso Skill Browser

Summon Shade
$1 = 0.03003 Magicka + 0.00001 SpellDamage - 0.95708
Magicka, R2 = 1.00000, Ratio = 0.00

Dark Shades
$1 = 0.03003 Magicka + 0.00001 SpellDamage - 0.95708
Magicka, R2 = 1.00000, Ratio = 0.00

Shadow Image
$1 = 0.04004 Magicka + 0.00010 SpellDamage - 0.86677
Magicka, R2 = 0.99999, Ratio = 0.00

This skill has absolutely terrible spell damage scaling compared to other spells in the game. Serously 0.00001 spell damage, thats nuts. Playing with my in-game tooltip and stats the UESP values appear to me to be correct.

Is this skill bugged, or is it just intended to be terrible?

Also, the 0.00010 is probably just 0. Regressions always have a small error in them as the r-squared is not 1, but 0.99999 in this case. The sample will be large enough, but without knowing the true population function it is always a bit off.

Masel92, I (and probably many, many others) really do appreciate all you do to investigate, test and above all explain the real mechanics of the game... but I really didn't understand any of what you just wrote!

Haha it's easy: R2 shows how much of the actual variation of the damage or the skill is captured by the linear model used on the UESP website. If it is 1, 100% of the variation is captured and you have a perfect model. If it is 0, your model is basically useless.

Here it is 0.99999, so the model is clearly very accurate.

Samadhi

Masel92 wrote: »

...
Having a critical hit hit for less than the tooltip is something that never happened to me before, and just doesn't add up.

Having a critical hit for less than the tooltip is not normal,
but on Nightblade it is

Nightblade
Not even once.

mb10

The skill doesn't even let you teleport on ps4 atm
But becaus the loud mouth complainers on the forums are all meta Templars, wardens and DKs we aren't hearing much about this at all.

It's a very crucial skill to NBs and the damage on the tooltip isn't enough at all and let alone its not even working!!

ZOS needs to rework this whole skill and make sure it's working properly and when I say rework I don't mean give us some ridiculous BS like the malevolent offering!

Exodium

This skill is STILL NOT WORKING. How the *** are we melee magnbs meant to be mobile when our class defining feature has been broken for two months. What the hell did you even do to screw over a perfectly working skill before clockwork patch that had NO PATCH NOTES ON IT.

@ZOS_Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom