Are maelstrom staffs still best in slot?

pteam

Are maelstrom staffs still best in slot after the change if so how much dps does it add on a 5/5/1 running a domihaus shoulder instead of a maelstrom staff?

dpencil1

Backbar vMA staff is BiS for PvE. Unless you are using Wall of Elements in PvP, it is no better than a random staff there. The extra dps in PvE is about 2k.

Lord-Otto

Is this for PvE?

If so, you wanna use a proc set and 3-piece jewelry instead of 5/5/1. Plus an additional fourth weapon piece of that set or Asylum staff.

Maelstrom is still BiS on backbar. Infused or Nirnhoned. It increases your dps by the listed bonus damage, I think that's close to 2k. It's even better when you channel a heavy lightning attack!

pteam

Yes this is pve. I’m a mag sorc using 5 piece julianos, 5piece necro, 1 piece domiahus all gold except necro necklace. Suggestions? 5 light, 1 medium, 1heavy for full undaunted bonus.

Lord-Otto

Definitely 5/1/1 for maximum stats, sustain should come from your food or group support.

If you have golded everything out already, then by all means use it. The difference between sets is not that high anymore since HotR.

If you wanna invest, or so you know what to start collecting...

The typical meta is 5 pieces Necropotence for a pet sorc. Then Ilambris two piece. Although I've had good numbers with Maw of the Infernal, but it can be unreliable.

Jewelry is three pieces Moondancer, Master Architect or Infallible Aether. All three are pretty similar. IA's crit bonus can potentially be the best in trials, if your group has a really good Warhorn rotation.
If you don't have that jewelry, Willpower is actually a really good substitute.

Weapon on the back should be Maelstrom. It's BiS by a noticeable margin. Lightning for the Concussion effect is typically preferred. But if your group already has an abundance of lightning skills, an inferno can actually outperform.
Trait is Infused for a bit more single target damage, Nirnhoned for AoE. Enchant is Berserker (spell/weapon damage).

Front bar is where things get interesting.
You wanna have a fourth piece of your jewelry set, like Moondancer, or an Asylum staff, perfected preferred. If you're using Willpower and don't have an Asylum staff, just use any set or non-set staff.
Important is the Infused trait.

Regarding the staff type...
If you use a Force Pulse and Crystal Frags rotation, which I recommend especially for trials, you wanna use an inferno staff.
If you're using a heavy attack and Destructive Clench rotation, which is easy to sustain, you wanna use a lightning staff.

Front bar enchant is shock damage or fire. It, again, depends on how much concussion (shock) your team provides. If it's enough, use fire. Burning effect is really good damage.
However, if you're using a lightning front staff, I recommend a fire enchant no matter what, to proc Ilambris.

Food is Witchmother or, if your group provides enough sustain, bi-stat food (Salmon-Millet, Melon-Baked Parmesan, ...). Spellcrit pots.

pteam

Also if your running maelstrom staff on back bar, what are u running on front bar? Seems weird running staffs from 2 different sets no?

pteam

Thanks Otto that’s some really good info.

Beardimus

Hi @Lord-Otto great intel. I'm still trying to get my head around why Nirn is up there for back bar over infused, as infused buff carries over to front bar, and Nirn doesn't. So surely its only buffing the short while you are laying down AOE?

Im asking as I'm yet to drop a shock staff from vMSA. But I have an Inferno I can transmute. Currently im running Juli/Netches and so would switch to juli/monster/willpower if I went inferno back shock front.

I assumed infused always best on back bar. So wanna get my head around why Nirn would work

(not talking trials here, I'm solo vMSA runs or vet Dungeons)

SquareSausage

I found if running a destructive clench build a Master's Lightning staff on front bar outperforms a 4th piece of either IA, MD, MA sets.
VMA staff back bar.

Exodium

SquareSausage wrote: »

I found if running a destructive clench build a Master's Lightning staff on front bar outperforms a 4th piece of either IA, MD, MA sets.
VMA staff back bar.

Wow really? Can you back this up with numbers?
I have a vma lightning nirhoned backbar and I have a master infused lightning staff sitting in my bank but I just want to know if I can get use of it somehow.

What exactly is this master staff clench rotation that Otto mentioned before and are the dps parse numbers really that competitive with ia/moon dancer etc

X3ina

Where did you guys get the idea that nirn backbar reliably outperforms infused ? Infused both bars is a must (imo). You don't have that amount of ST dots on a backbar to prefer nirn anyway.

Mainbar is pretty easy, Asylum perfected flame staff is BiS (the thing is - its hard to sustain that force pulse/crushing shock spam). Using 4th piece of minor slayer set is a solid choice aswell.

If you use master weapon mainbar you will loose spammable wich leads to huge single target dps loss. Atm every class should be able to sustain a spammable skill, otherwise some achievements are unreacheable for you.

SquareSausage

Exodium wrote: »

SquareSausage wrote: »

I found if running a destructive clench build a Master's Lightning staff on front bar outperforms a 4th piece of either IA, MD, MA sets.
VMA staff back bar.

Wow really? Can you back this up with numbers?
I have a vma lightning nirhoned backbar and I have a master infused lightning staff sitting in my bank but I just want to know if I can get use of it somehow.

What exactly is this master staff clench rotation that Otto mentioned before and are the dps parse numbers really that competitive with ia/moon dancer etc

I'm PS4 so cant show a full break down of parses, but my DPS on dummy was consistently higher than using 4th piece of any of the 4 piece minor slayer sets.

Those are the exact weapons that I have, I use shock enchant on masters, fire enchant on VMA staff. Try it yourself and see.

The rotation I'm using is LL, Wall, barswap, curse, pet, HA, Clench repeat

Obvz weaving light attacks inbetween, Starting with Destro ulti, then hit Shooting Star when its up. If I'm getting someone else to Ele drain for me I can usually fit an extra light attack in after the Clench and switch bar back to VMA bar before LL runs out and that extra LA with infused is great!

X3ina wrote: »

Where did you guys get the idea that nirn backbar reliably outperforms infused ? Infused both bars is a must (imo). You don't have that amount of ST dots on a backbar to prefer nirn anyway.

Mainbar is pretty easy, Asylum perfected flame staff is BiS (the thing is - its hard to sustain that force pulse/crushing shock spam). Using 4th piece of minor slayer set is a solid choice aswell.

If you use master weapon mainbar you will loose spammable wich leads to huge single target dps loss. Atm every class should be able to sustain a spammable skill, otherwise some achievements are unreacheable for you.

I'm going to try infused VMA and see how that compares. And obvz yea this rotation doesnt have a spammable but is pretty much infinite sustain if hitting pots on CD and ele drain up.

Lord-Otto

@Beardimus

Nirnhoned on back outperforms infused as long as you stay on your back bar - which you do for mob clearing. You drop your lightning, your wall, let your familiar pulse, and heavy lightning attack until DoTs run out. Nothing from the front bar is needed here.

Infused does indeed carry over to the front bar, resulting in more dps if you stay on it as long as possible - which you do for single targets.

So it's a choice you have there, both traits are absolutely fine.
I personally think since you won't out-dps stamina chars, but they won't control adds as magicka can, Nirnhoned just underlines the group role better. And there are surprisingly many mobs in dungeons and trials you wanna see gone rather quickly.
But that us just my opinion.

SquareSausage

Lord-Otto wrote: »

@Beardimus

Nirnhoned on back outperforms infused as long as you stay on your back bar - which you do for mob clearing. You drop your lightning, your wall, let your familiar pulse, and heavy lightning attack until DoTs run out. Nothing from the front bar is needed here.

Infused does indeed carry over to the front bar, resulting in more dps if you stay on it as long as possible - which you do for single targets.

What do you mean infused carries over to front bar?

Betsararie

They were ruined they're garbage tier in PvP now, you may as well just use the broom

Lord-Otto

SquareSausage wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

@Beardimus

Nirnhoned on back outperforms infused as long as you stay on your back bar - which you do for mob clearing. You drop your lightning, your wall, let your familiar pulse, and heavy lightning attack until DoTs run out. Nothing from the front bar is needed here.

Infused does indeed carry over to the front bar, resulting in more dps if you stay on it as long as possible - which you do for single targets.

What do you mean infused carries over to front bar?

When you activate an enchantment like the damage one on your infused back bar, it will still keep its boosted value when switching to a non-infused bar.

Beardimus

Cheers @Lord-Otto I just need a damn shock vMA staff to drop now and we sorted

Lord-Otto

Good luck with that drop, man!

I'm glad I don't have to go there again. Gotta get the bust someday, but it can wait!
(^_^)'

SquareSausage

Lord-Otto wrote: »

SquareSausage wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

@Beardimus

Nirnhoned on back outperforms infused as long as you stay on your back bar - which you do for mob clearing. You drop your lightning, your wall, let your familiar pulse, and heavy lightning attack until DoTs run out. Nothing from the front bar is needed here.

Infused does indeed carry over to the front bar, resulting in more dps if you stay on it as long as possible - which you do for single targets.

What do you mean infused carries over to front bar?

When you activate an enchantment like the damage one on your infused back bar, it will still keep its boosted value when switching to a non-infused bar.

Ah yea i see what you mean, I run a fire glyph on my back bar so didnt quite understand what was carrying over.

Beardimus

Perversely I actually love the arena, I've never farmer it however just worked on that clear then tried to improve score. However its not lost on me in 40-50 runs I have 1 inferno, 3 first and everything else perfect stamina weopons. I got the full suite lol

When its not buggy / laggy i do enjoy it. However my mind is full of a shock staff now for back bar, so it might start to drive me mad!!

Apache_Kid

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Definitely 5/1/1 for maximum stats, sustain should come from your food or group support.

If you have golded everything out already, then by all means use it. The difference between sets is not that high anymore since HotR.

If you wanna invest, or so you know what to start collecting...

The typical meta is 5 pieces Necropotence for a pet sorc. Then Ilambris two piece. Although I've had good numbers with Maw of the Infernal, but it can be unreliable.

Jewelry is three pieces Moondancer, Master Architect or Infallible Aether. All three are pretty similar. IA's crit bonus can potentially be the best in trials, if your group has a really good Warhorn rotation.
If you don't have that jewelry, Willpower is actually a really good substitute.

Weapon on the back should be Maelstrom. It's BiS by a noticeable margin. Lightning for the Concussion effect is typically preferred. But if your group already has an abundance of lightning skills, an inferno can actually outperform.
Trait is Infused for a bit more single target damage, Nirnhoned for AoE. Enchant is Berserker (spell/weapon damage).

Front bar is where things get interesting.
You wanna have a fourth piece of your jewelry set, like Moondancer, or an Asylum staff, perfected preferred. If you're using Willpower and don't have an Asylum staff, just use any set or non-set staff.
Important is the Infused trait.

Regarding the staff type...
If you use a Force Pulse and Crystal Frags rotation, which I recommend especially for trials, you wanna use an inferno staff.
If you're using a heavy attack and Destructive Clench rotation, which is easy to sustain, you wanna use a lightning staff.

Front bar enchant is shock damage or fire. It, again, depends on how much concussion (shock) your team provides. If it's enough, use fire. Burning effect is really good damage.
However, if you're using a lightning front staff, I recommend a fire enchant no matter what, to proc Ilambris.

Food is Witchmother or, if your group provides enough sustain, bi-stat food (Salmon-Millet, Melon-Baked Parmesan, ...). Spellcrit pots.

Agree with everything here. However for me, I've been able to achieve better results with Necro and another 5-piece such as Juli or Netch if my only option for jewelry is Willpower and no trial sets available. No monster set then but i was hitting harder with two 5-piece sets and an imperfect asylum paired with Maelstrom lighting staff than with a monster set and only Willpower as jewelry.

Lord-Otto

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Definitely 5/1/1 for maximum stats, sustain should come from your food or group support.

If you have golded everything out already, then by all means use it. The difference between sets is not that high anymore since HotR.

If you wanna invest, or so you know what to start collecting...

The typical meta is 5 pieces Necropotence for a pet sorc. Then Ilambris two piece. Although I've had good numbers with Maw of the Infernal, but it can be unreliable.

Jewelry is three pieces Moondancer, Master Architect or Infallible Aether. All three are pretty similar. IA's crit bonus can potentially be the best in trials, if your group has a really good Warhorn rotation.
If you don't have that jewelry, Willpower is actually a really good substitute.

Weapon on the back should be Maelstrom. It's BiS by a noticeable margin. Lightning for the Concussion effect is typically preferred. But if your group already has an abundance of lightning skills, an inferno can actually outperform.
Trait is Infused for a bit more single target damage, Nirnhoned for AoE. Enchant is Berserker (spell/weapon damage).

Front bar is where things get interesting.
You wanna have a fourth piece of your jewelry set, like Moondancer, or an Asylum staff, perfected preferred. If you're using Willpower and don't have an Asylum staff, just use any set or non-set staff.
Important is the Infused trait.

Regarding the staff type...
If you use a Force Pulse and Crystal Frags rotation, which I recommend especially for trials, you wanna use an inferno staff.
If you're using a heavy attack and Destructive Clench rotation, which is easy to sustain, you wanna use a lightning staff.

Front bar enchant is shock damage or fire. It, again, depends on how much concussion (shock) your team provides. If it's enough, use fire. Burning effect is really good damage.
However, if you're using a lightning front staff, I recommend a fire enchant no matter what, to proc Ilambris.

Food is Witchmother or, if your group provides enough sustain, bi-stat food (Salmon-Millet, Melon-Baked Parmesan, ...). Spellcrit pots.

Agree with everything here. However for me, I've been able to achieve better results with Necro and another 5-piece such as Juli or Netch if my only option for jewelry is Willpower and no trial sets available. No monster set then but i was hitting harder with two 5-piece sets and an imperfect asylum paired with Maelstrom lighting staff than with a monster set and only Willpower as jewelry.

Well, that is interesting.

Exodium

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Definitely 5/1/1 for maximum stats, sustain should come from your food or group support.

If you have golded everything out already, then by all means use it. The difference between sets is not that high anymore since HotR.

If you wanna invest, or so you know what to start collecting...

The typical meta is 5 pieces Necropotence for a pet sorc. Then Ilambris two piece. Although I've had good numbers with Maw of the Infernal, but it can be unreliable.

Jewelry is three pieces Moondancer, Master Architect or Infallible Aether. All three are pretty similar. IA's crit bonus can potentially be the best in trials, if your group has a really good Warhorn rotation.
If you don't have that jewelry, Willpower is actually a really good substitute.

Weapon on the back should be Maelstrom. It's BiS by a noticeable margin. Lightning for the Concussion effect is typically preferred. But if your group already has an abundance of lightning skills, an inferno can actually outperform.
Trait is Infused for a bit more single target damage, Nirnhoned for AoE. Enchant is Berserker (spell/weapon damage).

Front bar is where things get interesting.
You wanna have a fourth piece of your jewelry set, like Moondancer, or an Asylum staff, perfected preferred. If you're using Willpower and don't have an Asylum staff, just use any set or non-set staff.
Important is the Infused trait.

Regarding the staff type...
If you use a Force Pulse and Crystal Frags rotation, which I recommend especially for trials, you wanna use an inferno staff.
If you're using a heavy attack and Destructive Clench rotation, which is easy to sustain, you wanna use a lightning staff.

Front bar enchant is shock damage or fire. It, again, depends on how much concussion (shock) your team provides. If it's enough, use fire. Burning effect is really good damage.
However, if you're using a lightning front staff, I recommend a fire enchant no matter what, to proc Ilambris.

Food is Witchmother or, if your group provides enough sustain, bi-stat food (Salmon-Millet, Melon-Baked Parmesan, ...). Spellcrit pots.

Okay so I tried out master infused lightning staff front bar nirhoned lightning vma backbar and necropotence with a destructive clench rotation and I'm now getting 32-33k dps which is awesome for me on 300 ping.

Quick question. Atm I'm using a lightning glyph on my master infused bar, but considering all my lightning damage with heavy attacks and clench, should I use a fire glyph instead? Am I overstacking the lightning status effect? BTW I also use grothdar now instead of.llambris because it's also a source of fire damage

Lord-Otto

Exodium wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Definitely 5/1/1 for maximum stats, sustain should come from your food or group support.

If you have golded everything out already, then by all means use it. The difference between sets is not that high anymore since HotR.

If you wanna invest, or so you know what to start collecting...

The typical meta is 5 pieces Necropotence for a pet sorc. Then Ilambris two piece. Although I've had good numbers with Maw of the Infernal, but it can be unreliable.

Jewelry is three pieces Moondancer, Master Architect or Infallible Aether. All three are pretty similar. IA's crit bonus can potentially be the best in trials, if your group has a really good Warhorn rotation.
If you don't have that jewelry, Willpower is actually a really good substitute.

Weapon on the back should be Maelstrom. It's BiS by a noticeable margin. Lightning for the Concussion effect is typically preferred. But if your group already has an abundance of lightning skills, an inferno can actually outperform.
Trait is Infused for a bit more single target damage, Nirnhoned for AoE. Enchant is Berserker (spell/weapon damage).

Front bar is where things get interesting.
You wanna have a fourth piece of your jewelry set, like Moondancer, or an Asylum staff, perfected preferred. If you're using Willpower and don't have an Asylum staff, just use any set or non-set staff.
Important is the Infused trait.

Regarding the staff type...
If you use a Force Pulse and Crystal Frags rotation, which I recommend especially for trials, you wanna use an inferno staff.
If you're using a heavy attack and Destructive Clench rotation, which is easy to sustain, you wanna use a lightning staff.

Front bar enchant is shock damage or fire. It, again, depends on how much concussion (shock) your team provides. If it's enough, use fire. Burning effect is really good damage.
However, if you're using a lightning front staff, I recommend a fire enchant no matter what, to proc Ilambris.

Food is Witchmother or, if your group provides enough sustain, bi-stat food (Salmon-Millet, Melon-Baked Parmesan, ...). Spellcrit pots.

Okay so I tried out master infused lightning staff front bar nirhoned lightning vma backbar and necropotence with a destructive clench rotation and I'm now getting 32-33k dps which is awesome for me on 300 ping.

Quick question. Atm I'm using a lightning glyph on my master infused bar, but considering all my lightning damage with heavy attacks and clench, should I use a fire glyph instead? Am I overstacking the lightning status effect? BTW I also use grothdar now instead of.llambris because it's also a source of fire damage

Cool! 33k is really solid and beast for vet dungeons, and absolutely acceptable for most vet trials!


Gotta be honest, I am not sure if the fire enchant would increase your dps. I would assume so, but I haven't tested with Grothdarr.
=/