Need Help with Stam DK

Dedricus

Hey everyone,

I've played DK since release and have been having a hell of a time with stamina lately. It got so bad that I've just been sticking with Magicka and am performing much better.

While Stam my gear sets were:
Fury
Werewolf hide
Spriggan's
Shacklebreaker
Bloodspawn
Selene

Run 1h&s on front and 2h on back.

I've always thought those set ups were decent but find myself lacking in both sustain and damage now.

Happy to answer any more specific questions you guys have. I'd really like to get back to performing well as Stam but I can't place a finger on what I'm doing wrong.

Regards.

Asmael

Solo / Duo, BGs, IC... and CP or non-CP? The setups can vary a bit depending on what you do (I even have a stamina healer / DoT build with 2H / resto for BGs specifically if you are interested, but that's more for premades than solo-queue).

Try to solve one issue at a time, in this case: sustain first. What mundus, race, jewelry glyphs and drink / food do you run? Also, how frequently do you do heavy attacks? (if the answer is: "when I'm already out of stamina" or "never", there is your issue).

Considering potions, if you aren't using these yet, you can give a shot to Stamina / Immovable / Major Expedition, the CC immunity does save quite a bit of stamina.

And to down 2 addicts with a single bottle of skooma: you can use Flames of Oblivion. It is a strong DoT (even on stamina), increases your critical chance (which helps your healing as well, so you don't need to keep Vigor up as much) and it costs magicka.

If you are using Heroic Slash / Noxious breath, swap to Venomous Claw / pierce armor - the biggest loss will be the snare, but the sustain will be easier.

Final question: what does your green CP distribution look like?

---

Inb4 "just reroll to stamden" guys come in.

Dedricus

Already a much more detailed response than expected!

Gonna use it primarily for solo, bgs, and cp.

Big fan of the serpent mundus for the extra regen. My default glyph enchants is 2 weapon damage on rings and one stam recovery on neck. Camoran Throne for food. Weave heavy attacks in every three spells or so.

I am max alch so I could consider making some immov pots.

I actually do use FoO! Love it to death on both Stam and Mag.

Considered running claw/pierce simply due to how easy it seems to be to dodge breath @__@

Green CP is something like 50/120/then some points dumped into block and sprint cost. I know that doesn't say too much but I'm not at home and can't check for sure.

Durham

Stam DK is hurting at the moment ... A Stam warden playing the same style of play just does it better at the moment ... I still play my Stam DK but If I run into a Stam Warden /Templar of equal skill they will beat me most of the time... I have stamplar and stam warden but I always comeback to the Stam DK because that was my first toon..... The Stam DK has been enduring nerfs for sometime now ...

I have found a way to be more competitive but its still an uphill battle ... I am not sharing anything anymore due the fact anytime a DK finds a way to shine its gets nerfed so Im in silent mode at the moment.... I would recomend watching Kodi builds atm ...

If you still want to be a blockbot that still works against unexperienced players ..... If you like PVE its still a great class... But if you want to play the old Dk style of the last 2 years then you are no longer the king of that playstyle that goes to the Stam Warden .... A stamplar plays a different stytle but in its own it currently stronger .... A stam Nightblade is still the same as it always has been its totally different playstyle but still very good.... A stam Sorc is still good but again that has to be played very different and requires fighting around structure for it to shine but I think the Stam Templar has it beat atm also...

Ragnarock41

for solo play and 1vX, stamDk is dead, Its niche high TTK tanky dps gameplay is done better by a magDk.
I don't even care about stamwarden, Its op or not, stamDk is weak because Its weak, not because stamden exists.

now for group play, It still can be done,as stamDk's high TTK really costs him fights in solo play, but in a group this isnt really an issue, Especially if your group is good at murdering things people will start to fear you in no time. and In my case they even ignore me because my burst is low.(Which again, isnt a problem, You can always force them to attack you)
as a stamDK your build should be able to survive under big pressure
deal okay amounts of sustained damage, and you should be able to block when you need to.

I recommend going 5 heavy 2 medium to get some value out of medium armor passives.
Get at least 1 stamina cost reduction glyph and also get one shield-play enchant if you have problems with block cost.
Also make sure you have at least %15-20 block cost reduction in CP.

also your gear matters a lot.
You said you use SnB as front bar, which is the better decision, 2h isnt really a good front bar for Dk.
But werewolf hide is a back bar set.
The idea behind using it is that you switch to your back bar only when you need to turtle up, so you get the use of 5th piece ult regen.
werewolf hide is only viable on 2h front bar builds.Its actually a really meh set when you compare it to something like spriggans. Especially if you use it on your main hand, It just becomes terrible.

You can copy my pugstomper dot build,

5 piece shacklebreaker+5 piece seventh legion+2 medium blood spawn.

2 sturdy-5 impen+1 shield play- 2 weapon damage enchants, warrior mundus.

use tri-stat glyphs + lava foot soup to balance your low stamina pool and sustain.

Use a maelstrom 2h axe for the maximum dot potential and the chance to proc bleeds.
If you don't have a maelstrom, grab an asylum 2h. preferably an axe.

Now this build doesnt have great sustain but It does its job quite well. I Don't recommend it on duels or solo play but It does fine.

Durham

I still solo on Shore but Ragnarock is correct in his assessment on Stam DK..... But again the stam DK style of play can be done on a warden and done better ......with much better group support .... I run the exact template for my Stam Warden then I do for my Stam DK ...

However like Ragnarock suggested its still a good foot soldier in a group ... Harder to take down but generally left alone for softer targets ... Becareful blocking you will be drained of stam very quickly these days ... I generally block very little now ...

Dedricus

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

for solo play and 1vX, stamDk is dead

I've been reading this and I don't want to believe it. I've seen a handful of great stam DKs but that's it. A handful. I think the issue lies in us not having a true spammable. I've always felt thats an issue. DoTs can be cleansed but the constant pressure of something like jabs, whip (for mag), or surprise attack outshines our potential.

I'm getting off topic. I suppose I'll just stick with magicka for now. Doing a lot better with it and the damage/survivability is nuts.

Durham

Yes Dots are not very effective in the burst meta of PVP ... However very effective in PVE... Thats the issue in a nutshell .... Stam DK rely solely on the burst of two hander .... Dawnbreaker is just as good as Leap imo ... So what else do we have left?
We have a nerfed battle roar regen and the very expensive craptastic shield that we can cast for a little stam with 3 sec major mending that worth 2 to 3 tics of vigor..... We have no mobility .... Very little left in synergy with stam ... Thanks to the low offensive perma block builds on vevic !!!

Ragnarock41

Dedricus wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

for solo play and 1vX, stamDk is dead

I've been reading this and I don't want to believe it. I've seen a handful of great stam DKs but that's it. A handful. I think the issue lies in us not having a true spammable. I've always felt thats an issue. DoTs can be cleansed but the constant pressure of something like jabs, whip (for mag), or surprise attack outshines our potential.

I'm getting off topic. I suppose I'll just stick with magicka for now. Doing a lot better with it and the damage/survivability is nuts.

Its not about you or me ignoring it. Its the cold, hard truth about it.
Issue isnt about spammable. DK lacks sustain. DK lacks mobility. DK lacks damage.
Its a raw power issue. battle roar and helping hands passives used to scale with your max stamina, now Its flat.
This is why magDK is better than stamDK.
Its just barely enough to help a permablocker with 15-20k stamina to sustain. for a 40k stamina stamDK, Its basically nothing. I need stamina to not only block, but to fight,heal, run around.. Its not gonna cut it for me while stamblades are running around with 2,5-3k stamina regen and stamsorcs having infinite stamina

Now what does this has to do with spammable?
Even if you got a stamina whip you wont be able to spam it while blocking like a magDK does.
mDK can utilize %100 of his mag regen, while you will lose your sustain while blocking.
Its totally pointless to give stamDK a spammable , because of this issue.

Solution is reverting battle roar+helping hands, which will give stamDK more build paths.

techprince

You have two options.

1) Dizzying Swing build 2H main and 1HS back.
Armor : 4/5 WW Hide + 5 Strength of the Automaton + 2 Bloodspawn/Selene
Skills : http://eso-skills.com/skill?z=ElWAAN8@pM1S7i%T3DCcL@1cXyGUS&p=&a=000000&j=t&q=000&w=53&m=0


2) DOT build with 1HS as your main and 2H as back.
Armor : 4/5 WW Hide/Poisonous Serpent (highly recommended) + 5 Fury/Seventh Legion/Shacklebreaker + 2 Bloodspawn/Selene
Skills : http://eso-skills.com/skill?z=EDSe4PFE@5saR2ZS%oO27ne@DGY7gyP&p=&a=000000&j=t&q=000&w=35&m=0

AverageJo3Gam3r

I've been doing fine in BGs on a 2H/1HS build. 5 fury, 3 ww jewels, ww back bar 1hs, VMA or asylum 2H front. Slimecraw or bloodspawn monster set. Nothing really different from a traditional sDK build. The main difference is running forward momentum and lingering health+speed pots instead of shuffle. I use green dragon blood on the back bar for the increase healing and to get back the 20% stam regen I'm missing from my pots.

Igneous shield is trash. Don't use it. It's a waste of magicka. Wings, FoO, and/or GDB are much better magicka dumps.

Durham

Not sure the solutions atm ... I do not think they will change the Stam DK ... How do you boost the

techprince wrote: »

You have two options.

1) Dizzying Swing build 2H main and 1HS back.
Armor : 4/5 WW Hide + 5 Strength of the Automaton + 2 Bloodspawn/Selene
Skills : http://eso-skills.com/skill?z=ElWAAN8@pM1S7i%T3DCcL@1cXyGUS&p=&a=000000&j=t&q=000&w=53&m=0


2) DOT build with 1HS as your main and 2H as back.
Armor : 4/5 WW Hide/Poisonous Serpent (highly recommended) + 5 Fury/Seventh Legion/Shacklebreaker + 2 Bloodspawn/Selene
Skills : http://eso-skills.com/skill?z=EDSe4nfk@5saUUHy%oO1lN8@DGY7gyP&p=&a=000000&j=t&q=000&w=35&m=0

Automation does not affect you healing so it does nothing for your HOT and Vigor! Sadly that is why I do not use it for my DKs in PVP ...

Almost all DKs are currently using reactive Weapon Damage ... You need high Weapon damage procs sets to boost your vigor
My current setup stays around 3700 in PVP and spikes up and over 5k at times .... However my warden does the same since I use the same setup....

techprince

Durham wrote: »

Not sure the solutions atm ... I do not think they will change the Stam DK ... How do you boost the

techprince wrote: »

You have two options.

1) Dizzying Swing build 2H main and 1HS back.
Armor : 4/5 WW Hide + 5 Strength of the Automaton + 2 Bloodspawn/Selene
Skills : http://eso-skills.com/skill?z=ElWAAN8@pM1S7i%T3DCcL@1cXyGUS&p=&a=000000&j=t&q=000&w=53&m=0


2) DOT build with 1HS as your main and 2H as back.
Armor : 4/5 WW Hide/Poisonous Serpent (highly recommended) + 5 Fury/Seventh Legion/Shacklebreaker + 2 Bloodspawn/Selene
Skills : http://eso-skills.com/skill?z=EDSe4nfk@5saUUHy%oO1lN8@DGY7gyP&p=&a=000000&j=t&q=000&w=35&m=0

Automation does not affect you healing so it does nothing for your HOT and Vigor! Sadly that is why I do not use it for my DKs in PVP ...

Almost all DKs are currently using reactive Weapon Damage ... You need high Weapon damage procs sets to boost your vigor
My current setup stays around 3700 in PVP and spikes up and over 5k at times .... However my warden does the same since I use the same setup....

I know, but you dont need more healing. You already have 2 healing skills with 50%+ crit rate AND your ult heals. All your damage is physical and that set is op as *** for physical dmg. Alternatives would be hundings rage for full med setup. Ravager is a heavy set, you will lose stamina on your rings/neck which equates to 3k-4k stam loss in total and there will be times that it wont proc at all.

Ragnarock41

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

I've been doing fine in BGs on a 2H/1HS build. 5 fury, 3 ww jewels, ww back bar 1hs, VMA or asylum 2H front. Slimecraw or bloodspawn monster set. Nothing really different from a traditional sDK build. The main difference is running forward momentum and lingering health+speed pots instead of shuffle. I use green dragon blood on the back bar for the increase healing and to get back the 20% stam regen I'm missing from my pots.

Igneous shield is trash. Don't use it. It's a waste of magicka. Wings, FoO, and/or GDB are much better magicka dumps.

Yeah sure, go ahead and switch the igneous shield with GDB.
Because who needs major mending, 1k stamina return and minor brutality right?
And It also gives ultimate points, who needs that *** on a Dk right?

When you can get that sweet sweet HUGE 3-4k burst heals for only 4k magicka!

Durham

techprince wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

Not sure the solutions atm ... I do not think they will change the Stam DK ... How do you boost the

techprince wrote: »

You have two options.

1) Dizzying Swing build 2H main and 1HS back.
Armor : 4/5 WW Hide + 5 Strength of the Automaton + 2 Bloodspawn/Selene
Skills : http://eso-skills.com/skill?z=ElWAAN8@pM1S7i%T3DCcL@1cXyGUS&p=&a=000000&j=t&q=000&w=53&m=0


2) DOT build with 1HS as your main and 2H as back.
Armor : 4/5 WW Hide/Poisonous Serpent (highly recommended) + 5 Fury/Seventh Legion/Shacklebreaker + 2 Bloodspawn/Selene
Skills : http://eso-skills.com/skill?z=EDSe4nfk@5saUUHy%oO1lN8@DGY7gyP&p=&a=000000&j=t&q=000&w=35&m=0

Automation does not affect you healing so it does nothing for your HOT and Vigor! Sadly that is why I do not use it for my DKs in PVP ...

Almost all DKs are currently using reactive Weapon Damage ... You need high Weapon damage procs sets to boost your vigor
My current setup stays around 3700 in PVP and spikes up and over 5k at times .... However my warden does the same since I use the same setup....

I know, but you dont need more healing. You eady have 2 healing skills with 50%+ crit rate AND your ult heals. All your damage is physical and that set is op as *** for physical dmg. Alternatives would be hundings rage for full med setup. Ravager is a heavy set, you will lose stamina on your rings/neck which equates to 3k-4k stam loss in total and there will be times that it wont proc at all.

I always need more healing Especially when our Stam Warden counter parts who play extreamly similar to our DK playstyles have superior healing to us....I know where you are comming from I have ran the same setup that you are talking about ..... Im not really disagreeing with you I just saying my preference ...

AverageJo3Gam3r

@Ragnarock41 gdb is a buff. Not a reactive heal. Re read my post. The extra healing from lingering health pots+Minor vitality far out weights two vigor ticks worth of major vitality plus losing a global cooldown. Saving myself a global cooldown was the reason why I dropped igneous shield from my mDK. Then I tried dropping it from my StamDK and liked it better. I'd rather get my healing from other sources than igneous shield so I don't need to hit two skills when under pressure--only one and a dodge roll.

Correct, my build does not have a source of minor brutality.

Helping hands is garbage now. Trading 4K magicka for 1k stamina is a bad trade.

Regardless, we're debating something pointless. However you stack your defenses, DKs don't lack in the tankiness department. They lack burst.

Thogard

I actually really liked having GDB as a heal on my Stam DK. I ran it for that one week period when pets could crit and I ran the shadowrend monster set (and impreg and clever alchemist) and had a lot of fun with it. I think I made a post a while ago, but when pets stopped critting it lost some of its burst..

Ragnarock41

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

@Ragnarock41 gdb is a buff. Not a reactive heal. Re read my post. The extra healing from lingering health pots+Minor vitality far out weights two vigor ticks worth of major vitality plus losing a global cooldown. Saving myself a global cooldown was the reason why I dropped igneous shield from my mDK. Then I tried dropping it from my StamDK and liked it better. I'd rather get my healing from other sources than igneous shield so I don't need to hit two skills when under pressure--only one and a dodge roll.

Correct, my build does not have a source of minor brutality.

Helping hands is garbage now. Trading 4K magicka for 1k stamina is a bad trade.

Regardless, we're debating something pointless. However you stack your defenses, DKs don't lack in the tankiness department. They lack burst.

Hey,
Sorry for being late with the reply.

I tried GDB and I came to the conclusion that the lack of healing, stamina return, small shield to prevent big crits and minor brutality was just too big of a gap to fill by something silly like minor vitality, which will be totally pointless on a regular good old redguard stamDk build.

I see that you run a special build that makes better use of GDB, you could also use troll king to amp your playstyle even more,
but I always build my stamDk with very high weapon damage and crits, so even 3 ticks of amped vigor heals are gonna heal me better than GDB, not to mention you losing minor brutality will also cause you to get lesser heals too.


Ultimately I agree that both options cost way too much and don't do their jobs anymore.
In the current meta healing debuffs and bleed builds are crazy strong, makes both GDB and igneous shield pointless.

Its sad to see that igneous shield got nerfed so bad that Im hearing stamDks actually consider GDB over it, which is a hp based panic heal for tanks , no matter how you look at it, Its just not meant for stamDks, not at all, even at 30k max hp and you're about to die, Its still not worth the cost, even dark deal is a better heal.


They totally destroyed the synergy igneous shield had with vigor.

The more I talk about it the more I get angry at someone working at zenimax studios , so I better stop talking about this.

AverageJo3Gam3r

@Ragnarock41 no worries, lol. Thanks for the well reasoned, open minded post. Agreed that StamDK is close to the bottom of the pile. Which I actually don't mind. Running meta builds classes triggers my anti-hipster reaction lol

Ragnarock41

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

@Ragnarock41 no worries, lol. Thanks for the well reasoned, open minded post. Agreed that StamDK is close to the bottom of the pile. Which I actually don't mind. Running meta builds classes triggers my anti-hipster reaction lol

Well, not much we can do about it sadly at this point.
ZOS never admits their mistakes, so we are stuck with this abomination, this meme of a class. better get used to it.

BaByDontHurtMe

I’ve been running around with S+B and 2handed Maul with nirn in Ravager and Morag Tong sets in a small 3-5 man group and liking it. Sure dawnies do about the same but may be I’m nostalgic, I just prefer to leap on people. I literally toss between full heavy build and am dipping my toes in 5 medium and 2 heavy just because I miss shuffle.

Kanar

Why not bow? I've been running 2h/bow recently in cyrodiil and it is fun. Morag tong and marksman 5pc (bow is marksman, transmuted to nirn, battle-axe is asylum or maelstrom nirnhoned) with a kena helm. 6 medium 1 heavy.

If I can get off PI->snipe->critical rush->venom claw->fossilize then they are usually ready for some reverse slice loving. (Weave light/heavy where possible). Fossilize is awesome even with it's nerfed range (shame about that)

To survive I use igneous shield, vigor + rally. Run shuffle too.

I don't like using consumables as part of my rotation, but if I did then a poison on each weapon would be good, or clever alchemist instead of Morag tong. I like Morag tong because it also buffs all my allies PI and snipe.

Granted I'm mostly a casual PvPer and lots of other classes/builds will be stronger, but I have fun with it.

Kanar

Oh I would like to chime in on igneous vs GDB, because I'm planning to start using GDB. IF you do not run volatile armor then GDB is better IMO. I see a lot of people dissing GDB because of it's crappy heal, but it gives you 20% healing received buff (burning heat passive + 8%) and also 20% Stam Regen which is very nice if you don't constantly chug stam potions; those buffs last 20s which is much nicer than...3s from ig. GDB costs about the same as igneous.

So I would say, if you don't run volatile and you DO run a non-ig shield earthen heart ability (fossilize in my case) then you're better off with GDB.

One question I do still have is if there is a difference in healing received vs healing done buffs. It's possible that you may get diminishing returns stacking a lot of healing received so if you do that then GDB's value would go down.

Rohaus

With blood Spawn + werewolf hide + heroic strike = awesome ult gen which means more of the best animation in the game... leap!

After switching to Argonian... I have zero issues with sustain... potion racial is OP

Ragnarock41

question is, do you wanna just casually have fun or be good at having fun.
If I wanted to run with a bow and dodge roll around like a monkey I would definitely play a stamblade.

Also if you don't run volatile armor it means you don't have major resistance buffs so you're gonna get crushed like a fly anyways. Meanwhile nightblades get that buff free just for getting in combat. they don't even have to waste a slot or GCD for it. small things like that makes stamblades work. thats why they use medium and stamDks use heavy armor. even without cloak, they are still miles ahead of every other class when it comes to using medium armor. Its literally made for them.

Anyways, You can call me pessimistic, or salty, I really don't care. Truth is that you will get stomped.. hard.
Also get rid of morag tong, Its a massive waste of space,especially for a burst build. get alchemist, or if you want something to amp your dots get sheer venom, it will do more damage than morag tong, I can guarantee you that.

montjie

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

Igneous shield is trash. Don't use it. It's a waste of magicka. Wings, FoO, and/or GDB are much better magicka dumps.

lol, how long have you been playing sDK?

BaByDontHurtMe

I’ve noticed more and more people moving away from the old play style, he’s not the only one. I’ve met people who already have moved onto the medium build game and don’t have that Igneous before a vigor or Igneous before GDB. I’ve even seen people replace it with other skills and seems that DK is morphing simply because with no changes to class in sight, innovation is the mother of necessity after all.

Lexxypwns

I’m no stam DK expert, but I’m pretty sure 7th+WW+BS+Asylum Axe is the way to go

Ragnarock41

Lexxypwns wrote: »

I’m no stam DK expert, but I’m pretty sure 7th+WW+BS+Asylum Axe is the way to go

I would replace WW hide with more damage, something like truth set or clever alchemist.
WW hide is a terrible front bar set for me. Its a good set for dizzy swing spammers tho.

Edit:I really miss heavy tava's... to the point I want a heavy armor stamblade.
But It wont be as good as how it was on a dk.