Everything needed to know about Bow/Bow in PVE - Updated for Stonethorn

Raraaku

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Raraaku wrote: »

Does toxic barrage also apply the poisoned status or is it just poison DoT? And does the damage increase on poison injection occur after an enemy's health falls below 50% or does it need to be cast once their health has fallen below 50%?

Single target damage is great AoE seems a bit limited. I am interested in testing empowering chains with the new empower changes along with chains granting two charges of empower as well.

I believe Toxic Barrage has the chance of applying the poison status effect. However Lethal Arrow will apply the poison status effect 100% of the time unless they are immune or have a ward.

Poison Injection begins increasing damage at <50% health, it only begins, the max damage improvement isn't until <15%. Chain's is far too expensive for consistent use on a stam DK, not unless you sacrifice damage for more magicka sustain.

True, I also suppose that Silver Leash would achieve the same effect in terms of utility, outside of the empower, and it uses the larger resource pool.

exiars10

I will write huge report about CP grinding as bow/bow NB, various problems and findings once event is over. Yesterday I grinded like mad man and like no other day (from 667 to 705) so I should finally hit 720 today .
And I'll comment new patch notes, too.

Anyway, I have 3 more characters to level up, including bow/bow stamina DK and Warden.

@SodanTok

I'll start to level up Warden tonight so what skills and passives I need for bow/bow? There is no way I'm going to use DW (for NB I'll respect DW skills as I comletely stopped playing as DW). As I understand, other skills are the same as NB outside class skills:

Bow: Lethal Arrow, Endless Hail, Acid Spray, Poison Injection / Ballista
Assault: Razor Caltrops, Resolving Vigor (*)
Fighters Guild: Expert Hunter, Rearming Trap / Dawnbreaker of Smiting
Undaunted: Shadow Silk

I read your first post but too many skills to use... Now Warden one:
Animal Companions: Cutting Dive, Subterranean Assault, Bull Netch, Falcon's Swiftness (*and its morphs) / Wild Guardian
Green Balance: Green Lotus (*)
Winter's Embrace: nothing?

I'll try to level up as much as possible skills, so I can find proper rotation, like with NB.

(*) Those are worth?
I am not sure about Green Lotus as Expert Hunter do the same except no healing, but there are other ways of healing, and I would have simplier rotation.

And as I understand Bear ultimate > Dawnbreaker + Ballista combo, right?

SodanTok

exiars10 wrote: »

I will write huge report about CP grinding as bow/bow NB, various problems and findings once event is over. Yesterday I grinded like mad man and like no other day (from 667 to 705) so I should finally hit 720 today .
And I'll comment new patch notes, too.

Anyway, I have 3 more characters to level up, including bow/bow stamina DK and Warden.

SodanTok

I'll start to level up Warden tonight so what skills and passives I need for bow/bow? There is no way I'm going to use DW (for NB I'll respect DW skills as I comletely stopped playing as DW). As I understand, other skills are the same as NB outside class skills:

Bow: Lethal Arrow, Endless Hail, Acid Spray, Poison Injection / Ballista
Assault: Razor Caltrops, Resolving Vigor (*)
Fighters Guild: Expert Hunter, Rearming Trap / Dawnbreaker of Smiting
Undaunted: Shadow Silk

I read your first post but too many skills to use... Now Warden one:
Animal Companions: Cutting Dive, Subterranean Assault, Bull Netch, Falcon's Swiftness (*and its morphs) / Wild Guardian
Green Balance: Green Lotus (*)
Winter's Embrace: nothing?

I'll try to level up as much as possible skills, so I can find proper rotation, like with NB.

(*) Those are worth?
I am not sure about Green Lotus as Expert Hunter do the same except no healing, but there are other ways of healing, and I would have simplier rotation.

And as I understand Bear ultimate > Dawnbreaker + Ballista combo, right?

Skills? The things I listed basically. Ranged trap not melee one. As for passives every warden passive, every medium passive, first 3 heavy passives, fighters guild passive, undaunted passive, racial passive, alchemy passives

You have limited space on warden for like 2 skills I think. Vigor is obv very good, lotus is very nice, ice armor (ice fortress) is useful when solo. Falcon is useful when solo.

On warden always bear unless you cant use it (specific fights)

exiars10

Yea, I asked about skill bars, sorry for not being more precise. All right, I'll skipp Ballista and Dawnbreaker then.
I'll level up the rest and see what suits me to fill bars.

I know about passives - but Gourmand and Connoisseur are important, too . 20 min more on Ambrosia and similar is too good to pass. I have huge stockpile of ingredients so no problem leveling up (I loot everything ...). Same for Alchemy.

Last question (as I'm solo player): Deceptive Predator or Bird of Prey? I guess personal preference?

SodanTok

exiars10 wrote: »

Yea, I asked about skill bars, sorry for not being more precise. All right, I'll skipp Ballista and Dawnbreaker then.
I'll level up the rest and see what suits me to fill bars.

I know about passives - but Gourmand and Connoisseur are important, too . 20 min more on Ambrosia and similar is too good to pass. I have huge stockpile of ingredients so no problem leveling up (I loot everything ...). Same for Alchemy.

Last question (as I'm solo player): Deceptive Predator or Bird of Prey? I guess personal preference?

No personal preference. Deceptive is bad.

UM_xReb

exiars10 wrote: »

I am not sure about Green Lotus as Expert Hunter do the same except no healing, but there are other ways of healing, and I would have simplier rotation.

The reason you use Green Lotus over Expert Hunter is because of the Nature's Gift passive. Every time you heal an ally with your light or heavy attacks you gain back resources, which has a noticeably positive impact on your sustain.

Toc de Malsvi

UM_xReb wrote: »

exiars10 wrote: »

I am not sure about Green Lotus as Expert Hunter do the same except no healing, but there are other ways of healing, and I would have simplier rotation.

The reason you use Green Lotus over Expert Hunter is because of the Nature's Gift passive. Every time you heal an ally with your light or heavy attacks you gain back resources, which has a noticeably positive impact on your sustain.

Well and Green Lotus carries Major Savagery over to your other bar while buffed. Expert Hunter does not.

Raraaku

@Toc de Malsvi @SodanTok

Have y'all played around with the Poisonous Serpent trial set with your DK build? With a stamDK and Bow both having a large amount of poison DoT skills available to use; the proc and added damage from the 5-piece seems like it would do well with a bow/bow stamDK rotation (50% chance to proc and deal an additional 39-3400 poison damage from light/heavy attacks on enemies with a poison damage ability applied to them, can occur every 1 second). The other set bonuses seems pretty helpful too, so it doesn't seem like a waste of a set. Would like to hear y'alls thoughts.

I am really enjoying the StamDK bow/bow set-up though, if anything for DK's nice selections of protective/defensive buffs.

SodanTok

Raraaku wrote: »

"Toc de Malsvi" SodanTok

Have y'all played around with the Poisonous Serpent trial set with your DK build? With a stamDK and Bow both having a large amount of poison DoT skills available to use; the proc and added damage from the 5-piece seems like it would do well with a bow/bow stamDK rotation (50% chance to proc and deal an additional 39-3400 poison damage from light/heavy attacks on enemies with a poison damage ability applied to them). Would like to hear y'alls thoughts.

I am really enjoying the StamDK bow/bow set-up though, if anything for DKs nice selections of protective/defensive buffs.

DKs dont have some crazy benefits from doing Poison Damage so the set will performs almost same as any other build and yes I tried it on warden and the results were pretty meh. It was good enough to be close to my normal DPS, but that is maximum for it. No trial buffs and debuffs (except penetration) will improve it one bit. Generally no point using any 5piece proc set.

Raraaku

SodanTok wrote: »

Raraaku wrote: »

"Toc de Malsvi" SodanTok

Have y'all played around with the Poisonous Serpent trial set with your DK build? With a stamDK and Bow both having a large amount of poison DoT skills available to use; the proc and added damage from the 5-piece seems like it would do well with a bow/bow stamDK rotation (50% chance to proc and deal an additional 39-3400 poison damage from light/heavy attacks on enemies with a poison damage ability applied to them). Would like to hear y'alls thoughts.

I am really enjoying the StamDK bow/bow set-up though, if anything for DKs nice selections of protective/defensive buffs.

DKs dont have some crazy benefits from doing Poison Damage so the set will performs almost same as any other build and yes I tried it on warden and the results were pretty meh. It was good enough to be close to my normal DPS, but that is maximum for it. No trial buffs and debuffs (except penetration) will improve it one bit. Generally no point using any 5piece proc set.

Yea, I was thinking along the lines of DPS and using it to provide a boost in overall DPS; since I know you've mentioned that Bows have relatively low DPS compared to other weapons in the game.

SodanTok

Raraaku wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Raraaku wrote: »

"Toc de Malsvi" SodanTok

Have y'all played around with the Poisonous Serpent trial set with your DK build? With a stamDK and Bow both having a large amount of poison DoT skills available to use; the proc and added damage from the 5-piece seems like it would do well with a bow/bow stamDK rotation (50% chance to proc and deal an additional 39-3400 poison damage from light/heavy attacks on enemies with a poison damage ability applied to them). Would like to hear y'alls thoughts.

I am really enjoying the StamDK bow/bow set-up though, if anything for DKs nice selections of protective/defensive buffs.

DKs dont have some crazy benefits from doing Poison Damage so the set will performs almost same as any other build and yes I tried it on warden and the results were pretty meh. It was good enough to be close to my normal DPS, but that is maximum for it. No trial buffs and debuffs (except penetration) will improve it one bit. Generally no point using any 5piece proc set.

Yea, I was thinking along the lines of DPS and using it to provide a boost in overall DPS; since I know you've mentioned that Bows have relatively low DPS compared to other weapons in the game.

They do and getting proc set damage is generally good idea on low damaging builds, but bow isnt that much behind.

exiars10

I still think Unfathomable Darkness is great process set... but only for Nightblades as crows crit and they crit for over 10k+. With proper rotation they are 70-75% active (75% is max anyway) as they are activated on any damage.

---

Just a quick report on progress (next week I'll write a lot of as promised, just to event finish):

1) CP 721 .

2) Leveled Warden in some ~7-8 hours as both Bow/Bow DD (Auridon and Alik'r Desert dolmens) and OHaS/OHaS Tank (group dungeons). I really like Warden except the lack of melee execute (Killer's Blade) is disturbing. I leveled skills on the fly but have to hunt skyshards for passives (there is a lot of passives in game useless for some classes so I skipped them) and to visit Cyrodiil for Vigor and Caltrop (I immediately entered it at level 10 to unlock Rapid Manouvers + 2 free skill points).
As a tank, I get instantly into group dungeons and it's really sad that being tank and doing 5-6k DPS was once 50% of group DPS and that happened in Darkshade Caverns II (daily pledge), so I had to left it as group couldn't even beat first boss (The Fallen Foreman) - all died except me. And that was with underleveled gear (5x Fortified Brass + 4x Mechanical Acuity + 3x whatever jewelry I picked at dolmens).
Bear is good and it has potent damage as per Combat Metrics.
Gilliamtherogue trashed Bird of Prey morph so I skilled Deceptive Predator which mainly use on tank anyway...
Next week I look for gear and proper skills on bars and rotation.

3) Yesterday evening I started to level DK, again as both Bow/Bow DD (Auridon and Alik'r Desert dolmens) and OHaS/OHaS Tank (group dungeons). The same story as above.

DK is all right but I prefer Warden more.

JobooAGS

How.does crushing weapon sound for bow/bow builds vs snipe?

SodanTok

I wrote some stuff here about it:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5084099#Comment_5084099

tl;dr Snipe obviously outperforms crushing in static fight. But crushing is almost must have for any bow build (except warden) for all the fights that make snipe use worse.

---

It is also very interesting ability for nightblade. The most significant class for the use. I am not very experienced playing NB in pve (havent touched mine for over a year), so I still cant do all those crazy things like triple relentless proc in one cast. I just know it was impossible with snipe as spammable, but it is theoretically possible now (or having 3 procs every 2nd cast at least). The DPS difference so far (from literally just 1 test in TFS+VO on 6M) looked to be around 1k.

StamSorc. Boring class tbh. No reason to use crushing if you can use focused aim, because you have like 8s of rotation just spamming anyway. Since there are literally no abilities to use.

Warden. No point. Cutting dive is better.

Others. Cant say yet. I can imagine DK having same problem as stamsorc of having too big of window where no ability is to be used. Lets remember here that we lost one ability every 12s in trap, by switching to channeled focus we cast once in 36s.
Templar may find better use, since they at least get ability to cast in potl.

JobooAGS

SodanTok wrote: »

I wrote some stuff here about it:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5084099#Comment_5084099

tl;dr Snipe obviously outperforms crushing in static fight. But crushing is almost must have for any bow build (except warden) for all the fights that make snipe use worse.

---

It is also very interesting ability for nightblade. The most significant class for the use. I am not very experienced playing NB in pve (havent touched mine for over a year), so I still cant do all those crazy things like triple relentless proc in one cast. I just know it was impossible with snipe as spammable, but it is theoretically possible now (or having 3 procs every 2nd cast at least). The DPS difference so far (from literally just 1 test in TFS+VO on 6M) looked to be around 1k.

StamSorc. Boring class tbh. No reason to use crushing if you can use focused aim, because you have like 8s of rotation just spamming anyway. Since there are literally no abilities to use.

Warden. No point. Cutting dive is better.

Others. Cant say yet. I can imagine DK having same problem as stamsorc of having too big of window where no ability is to be used. Lets remember here that we lost one ability every 12s in trap, by switching to channeled focus we cast once in 36s.
Templar may find better use, since they at least get ability to cast in potl.

Since stam sorcs are getting that light attack buff via bound arraments, would it make sense to use crushing weapons over focused aim?

SodanTok

JobooAGS wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

I wrote some stuff here about it:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5084099#Comment_5084099

tl;dr Snipe obviously outperforms crushing in static fight. But crushing is almost must have for any bow build (except warden) for all the fights that make snipe use worse.

---

It is also very interesting ability for nightblade. The most significant class for the use. I am not very experienced playing NB in pve (havent touched mine for over a year), so I still cant do all those crazy things like triple relentless proc in one cast. I just know it was impossible with snipe as spammable, but it is theoretically possible now (or having 3 procs every 2nd cast at least). The DPS difference so far (from literally just 1 test in TFS+VO on 6M) looked to be around 1k.

StamSorc. Boring class tbh. No reason to use crushing if you can use focused aim, because you have like 8s of rotation just spamming anyway. Since there are literally no abilities to use.

Warden. No point. Cutting dive is better.

Others. Cant say yet. I can imagine DK having same problem as stamsorc of having too big of window where no ability is to be used. Lets remember here that we lost one ability every 12s in trap, by switching to channeled focus we cast once in 36s.
Templar may find better use, since they at least get ability to cast in potl.

Since stam sorcs are getting that light attack buff via bound arraments, would it make sense to use crushing weapons over focused aim?

You would need to land twice as many light attacks with crushing build to catch up on damage from snipe build. From my test I think you land like 20% more light attacks so unfortunately no. Its not enough. In static fight, where you have no problem to cast snipe, crushing as spammable comes nowhere near close to snipe (unlike on nightblade for example)

The important distinction and kinda problem plaguing stamsorc as bow/bow is that unlike other builds (both bow or dw) the spammable isnt something you use twice in rotation (so small part of overall ps) but it makes up great part of it.
Where my DW stamsorc has 4 abilities on backbar, 3 abilities on frontbar and then spammable to 'fill the time' plus the ability to actually use heavy attacks in reasonable time and damage to both get resources and fill the time. Bow stamsorc from range (so no point casting hurricane) with the new channeled acceleration (so once in 36s) essentially casts 3 abilities. Then maybe Acid Spray, which while improving dps by little is very horrible on sustain and I have to do more tests to see if its even valuable to do it with the heavy attack changes. Rest time is spent on spammable. Main reason I find it too boring after getting used to warden.

JobooAGS

SodanTok wrote: »

JobooAGS wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

I wrote some stuff here about it:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5084099#Comment_5084099

tl;dr Snipe obviously outperforms crushing in static fight. But crushing is almost must have for any bow build (except warden) for all the fights that make snipe use worse.

---

It is also very interesting ability for nightblade. The most significant class for the use. I am not very experienced playing NB in pve (havent touched mine for over a year), so I still cant do all those crazy things like triple relentless proc in one cast. I just know it was impossible with snipe as spammable, but it is theoretically possible now (or having 3 procs every 2nd cast at least). The DPS difference so far (from literally just 1 test in TFS+VO on 6M) looked to be around 1k.

StamSorc. Boring class tbh. No reason to use crushing if you can use focused aim, because you have like 8s of rotation just spamming anyway. Since there are literally no abilities to use.

Warden. No point. Cutting dive is better.

Others. Cant say yet. I can imagine DK having same problem as stamsorc of having too big of window where no ability is to be used. Lets remember here that we lost one ability every 12s in trap, by switching to channeled focus we cast once in 36s.
Templar may find better use, since they at least get ability to cast in potl.

Since stam sorcs are getting that light attack buff via bound arraments, would it make sense to use crushing weapons over focused aim?

You would need to land twice as many light attacks with crushing build to catch up on damage from snipe build. From my test I think you land like 20% more light attacks so unfortunately no. Its not enough. In static fight, where you have no problem to cast snipe, crushing as spammable comes nowhere near close to snipe (unlike on nightblade for example)

The important distinction and kinda problem plaguing stamsorc as bow/bow is that unlike other builds (both bow or dw) the spammable isnt something you use twice in rotation (so small part of overall ps) but it makes up great part of it.
Where my DW stamsorc has 4 abilities on backbar, 3 abilities on frontbar and then spammable to 'fill the time' plus the ability to actually use heavy attacks in reasonable time and damage to both get resources and fill the time. Bow stamsorc from range (so no point casting hurricane) with the new channeled acceleration (so once in 36s) essentially casts 3 abilities. Then maybe Acid Spray, which while improving dps by little is very horrible on sustain and I have to do more tests to see if its even valuable to do it with the heavy attack changes. Rest time is spent on spammable. Main reason I find it too boring after getting used to warden.

Do you have pts tests with both builds by chance?

SodanTok

JobooAGS wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

JobooAGS wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

I wrote some stuff here about it:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5084099#Comment_5084099

tl;dr Snipe obviously outperforms crushing in static fight. But crushing is almost must have for any bow build (except warden) for all the fights that make snipe use worse.

---

It is also very interesting ability for nightblade. The most significant class for the use. I am not very experienced playing NB in pve (havent touched mine for over a year), so I still cant do all those crazy things like triple relentless proc in one cast. I just know it was impossible with snipe as spammable, but it is theoretically possible now (or having 3 procs every 2nd cast at least). The DPS difference so far (from literally just 1 test in TFS+VO on 6M) looked to be around 1k.

StamSorc. Boring class tbh. No reason to use crushing if you can use focused aim, because you have like 8s of rotation just spamming anyway. Since there are literally no abilities to use.

Warden. No point. Cutting dive is better.

Others. Cant say yet. I can imagine DK having same problem as stamsorc of having too big of window where no ability is to be used. Lets remember here that we lost one ability every 12s in trap, by switching to channeled focus we cast once in 36s.
Templar may find better use, since they at least get ability to cast in potl.

Since stam sorcs are getting that light attack buff via bound arraments, would it make sense to use crushing weapons over focused aim?

You would need to land twice as many light attacks with crushing build to catch up on damage from snipe build. From my test I think you land like 20% more light attacks so unfortunately no. Its not enough. In static fight, where you have no problem to cast snipe, crushing as spammable comes nowhere near close to snipe (unlike on nightblade for example)

The important distinction and kinda problem plaguing stamsorc as bow/bow is that unlike other builds (both bow or dw) the spammable isnt something you use twice in rotation (so small part of overall ps) but it makes up great part of it.
Where my DW stamsorc has 4 abilities on backbar, 3 abilities on frontbar and then spammable to 'fill the time' plus the ability to actually use heavy attacks in reasonable time and damage to both get resources and fill the time. Bow stamsorc from range (so no point casting hurricane) with the new channeled acceleration (so once in 36s) essentially casts 3 abilities. Then maybe Acid Spray, which while improving dps by little is very horrible on sustain and I have to do more tests to see if its even valuable to do it with the heavy attack changes. Rest time is spent on spammable. Main reason I find it too boring after getting used to warden.

Do you have pts tests with both builds by chance?

No screenshots, since I dont consider any 'test' proper until next week balance changes and hopefully unlock of rank4 skills (cant bother level them up). But Without Major Fracture, warrior mundus, tfs and VO and on 6M dummy crushing build was +/- 2k behind focused aim. Which is big difference when we are talking about values of 31-33k DPS. On NB crushing is 1k behind and thats at 41-42k level.

Important notion is that I also dont do any long range parses unless stated otherwise. Usual range is around 15m. Snipe would perform even better at 25m

exiars10

Watched Gilliam video about medium Summerset armors:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryBaeu8pr7I

Gryphon's Ferocity is all right if you want to skip Trap from the bar and rotation. Nothing game changing but a niche set clearly aimed at beginner bow/bow users.

Arms of Relequen is outright awful trash and bad joke.

Personally, I think I'm going to run in Summerset on my Nightblade:
5x Hunding's Rage + 4x Unfathomable Darkness + 3x Agility.

@SodanTok

Did you see tests that LA damage on bows is actually going substiantially up or you see in your testing?

P. S.
I didn't forget to type report, just don't have time ... but I'll do it.

SodanTok

exiars10 wrote: »

Watched Gilliam video about medium Summerset armors:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryBaeu8pr7I

Gryphon's Ferocity is all right if you want to skip Trap from the bar and rotation. Nothing game changing but a niche set clearly aimed at beginner bow/bow users.

Arms of Relequen is outright awful trash and bad joke.

Personally, I think I'm going to run in Summerset on my Nightblade:
5x Hunding's Rage + 4x Unfathomable Darkness + 3x Agility.

SodanTok

Did you see tests that LA damage on bows is actually going substiantially up or you see in your testing?

P. S.
I didn't forget to type report, just don't have time ... but I'll do it.

I know, Im getting same DPS from LA as I am getting from VMA bow endless hail

Jowrik

@SodanTok, I'm not able to play PTS atm... Do you have anything on Master bow? I was thinking on running VO/VMA Bow, 5x Hundings/Briar/TFS/... & some monster set. Maybe Kragh if not running TFS, seeing that penetration will be harder to come by. Otherwise i'm guessing stormfist with maybe Kena/Velidreth in some situations. Not sure if that'd outperform the Master's Bow.

By the way, I can maybe see Imbue Weapon + Kena on a nightblade working out too.

SodanTok

Jowrik wrote: »

@SodanTok, I'm not able to play PTS atm... Do you have anything on Master bow? I was thinking on running VO/VMA Bow, 5x Hundings/Briar/TFS/... & some monster set. Maybe Kragh if not running TFS, seeing that penetration will be harder to come by. Otherwise i'm guessing stormfist with maybe Kena/Velidreth in some situations. Not sure if that'd outperform the Master's Bow.

By the way, I can maybe see Imbue Weapon + Kena on a nightblade working out too.

Still waiting for the biggest balance patch (well after the obviously first one) coming this week to start making test based statements, but we got several changes that just scream for VO being used as one of the main sets, because better sustain means more light attacks. And then obviously TFS, unless trying something different (and then being forced to use lover) like War Machine, Briarheart or even Acuity.
So nothing conclusive yet, but if someone was to use Master Bow with agility it would be nightblade and only nightblade.

As for Monster set, you dont want to touch Kragh since its melee. I would advise to stay away from veli too, mostly because it doesnt feel nice to use in movement heavy fights. That is just my opinion of someone that often moves around doing mechanics or ressing people. During those stormfist always procs on target. But velidreth will still outperform it damage wise (not significantly) if you can land every shot. Never tried Kena, sustain is not something we want to lose, but I can give it a chance

Jowrik

..doublepost

SodanTok

@JobooAGS @Jowrik

Crushing Weapon

Lethal Arrow

As for optimal gear, cp, class, skills, penetration, ... thats all in the stars still. This is in no way optimized for best DPS, just what I felt like is good.
All tests done on nightblade, because if this continues looking like it is looking (good instant spammable, good DPS from LA) the NBs will really outperform every other class by significant margin on bow/bow (well, isn't that true for any build)

Crushing and Lethal keep performing on same level in every PTS parse I do. But obviously there is slight advantage going to instant spammable over casted one on server with 200+ ping. Also never full range, always max 15m.

As for the parses I aim at around 6k penetration just to somehow standardize my tests. Because it is easy to change up between combining sharpened weapons + CP or TFS + CP or Lover + CP.
I used the new set just to test it out and because it is fun and actually good. Will probably be nerfed, but if not it is very much set to pick next patch (maybe not BiS, but great). It also procs Adrenaline Rush from redguard, which may get changed too. So going for sharpened weapons is not sustain loss over infused (actually with the exact same penetration but gained from cp and sharpened the DPS is better than using infused with lover).
Second set was Briarheart, for no reason other than I despise Acuity and this patch killed all other frontbar sets usable (cant front bar TFS or the new proc set, dont want to front bar VO, no ulti to use war machine, hunding is just worse than briar)

JobooAGS

SodanTok wrote: »

@JobooAGS @Jowrik

Crushing Weapon

Lethal Arrow

As for optimal gear, cp, class, skills, penetration, ... thats all in the stars still. This is in no way optimized for best DPS, just what I felt like is good.
All tests done on nightblade, because if this continues looking like it is looking (good instant spammable, good DPS from LA) the NBs will really outperform every other class by significant margin on bow/bow (well, isn't that true for any build)

Crushing and Lethal keep performing on same level in every PTS parse I do. But obviously there is slight advantage going to instant spammable over casted one on server with 200+ ping. Also never full range, always max 15m.

As for the parses I aim at around 6k penetration just to somehow standardize my tests. Because it is easy to change up between combining sharpened weapons + CP or TFS + CP or Lover + CP.
I used the new set just to test it out and because it is fun and actually good. Will probably be nerfed, but if not it is very much set to pick next patch (maybe not BiS, but great). It also procs Adrenaline Rush from redguard, which may get changed too. So going for sharpened weapons is not sustain loss over infused (actually with the exact same penetration but gained from cp and sharpened the DPS is better than using infused with lover).
Second set was Briarheart, for no reason other than I despise Acuity and this patch killed all other frontbar sets usable (cant front bar TFS or the new proc set, dont want to front bar VO, no ulti to use war machine, hunding is just worse than briar)

That proc set seems op, it deals more damage than hail... if it stays live, I hope mag gets some buffs to compensate

SodanTok

@JobooAGS eh... have you seen the mag dd set. Much more OP tbh.

I hope it stays, well it may need some adjustments, but I hope they keep it viable. It will be very very good bow/bow set, because of the limited scaling (basically just cp and pen). I get almost same DPS from it as 50k parse builds. But those builds get twice as much DPS from dunno, using TFS or hunding. I am getting almost 5k less DPS by using TFS+Briar

Masel

Wanted to leave something here...

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/410499/shadow-thorn-stamina-nb-42k-dps-bow-bow-build-summerset/p1?new=1

basically the same as you get

SodanTok

Testing the new def soon to be nerfed proc set with combination of some other on all classes. Even if it gets nerfed, it still provided nice baseline to compare how other classes/setups do against each other. Everything done with 7500 pen and Major Fracture (unless not available, how I hate classes without fracture in toolkit when solo testing)

Briarheart as 2nd unless stated otherwise:
Nightblade 41-44k (lowest is dubious master bow agility, highest is bi-stat briarheart)
Warden - 40k (War Machine)
DK - 35k (No Major Fracture, mid range) 37-38k (Noxious Breath rotation, short range)
Templar - 36k (No Major Fracture, but with Minor Fracture)
Sorc - 37k (No Major Fracture, but with Minor Fracture)

Rotation changes may or may not achieve better DPS. Mostly with DKs it is very struggle what works best. NB was crushing/acid spray rotation. Warden was cutting dive/sub assault. DK was acid spray/lethal. Templar was crushing only.Sorc was mostly crushing with 1 focused aim (so there is ability to cancel heavy attacks with...)

As for reason I keep using this set when its overperforming. There are only 3 ways this set will get changed. Either it gets nerfed slightly, stopping being BiS on normal builds but still viable, that will still make it BiS on bow or it wont get changed (obvious BiS) or it will get destroyed to nothing (I am little optimistic that this wont happen).

Other question that may come:
VDSA Master Bow? Viable, but not BiS on anything in my opinion. Stay away from using it on Warden (doesnt buff bear).
Spammable? Crushing on NB. Cutting dive/Sub on Warden. Lethal Arrow on DK (for combustion). Focused Aim supported by Crushing on Sorc. Same for templar.
Acid Spray? Single target the ability was always barely worth it, with Summerset buff of LA and nerf of HA I would stay away from using this ability in single target fights on anything but Nightblade or DK.
Race? Redguard BiS, Imperial good. I can see even Bosmer being on par with Khajiit now... or better.

exiars10

Unfathomable Darkness doesn‘t crit any more in PTS . There goes down the drain my plan to run it on Warden… Still, using set for 3 or 4 bonuses is good.

Here comes the promised report about CP and new characters‘ grind and more...

CP grind as bow/bow
I went on various places – Auridon dolmens, Spellscar and several public dungeons (Vile Manse, Crimson Cove and Forgotten Wastes) plus I did various daily quests but it wasn‘t big xp contribution. If not for those boxes I wouldn‘t do them as xp gain is small but time waste is huge on some of those quests.
Auridon dolmens are slowest but obviously easiest way. I used it to break a pace.
Public dungeons are great when empty. Both Crimson Cove and Forgotten Wastes are great, but FW is harder as there are really nasty mobs and I admit I died several times when those mages droped Flame Attronach bombs. Also, good luck being alone in FW even in dead hours. CC is easier and you earn much more money (as mob are Colovian pirates plus dropped gear can be sold at guild stores) but there is a bit number of ranged mobs (mages) which are painful if not quickly killed.
Spellscar is the best way to CP grind but there are several catches. If you grind in the dead hours like morning, respawn rates are much lower. Yes, that‘s right and I suffered from it. It was unbelievable that I was alone in whole Spellscar but happened several times. Also, not everything is Spellscar is equal: Fire > Ice > Storm. F..k those 200k health Storm Attronachs from the bottom of my heart. Obviously storm part was the least populated as it‘s hardest one by far. I made some big mistakes pulling three Storm Attronachs... Fire is not only the easiest but has the best pull places, too.

I really don‘t understand why CP 720+ players came alone to Spellscar and destroyed everything – it was always magicka „easy mode“ Sorcerers who laid waste. Why just not sell Skyreach Catacombs runs? When those „easy mode“ Sorcerers showed up I just left as there was no point.

Mirage is all right skill but when there is a lot of AoE damage it‘s worthless so overall Vigor all the way. Also, there is a obvious power difference between CP 720 and when I was lowered.

What I found later is that my gear selection was actually huge part of problem …

CP grinding gear
I initially went with process sets: 5x Unfathomable Darkness (all training) + 5x Shadow of Red Mountain (all training) + 2x golden Hunding‘s Rage bows (infused + nirnhoned). It‘s really cool combo and there is nothing wrong with it… if you have healer with you in Spellscar. Happened once with some guy and I melted storm part like crazy. But honestly, I got sick of volcano and crows‘ effects… The main problem is bad survivability as I had to use Vigor too much and when I hit too late, I was dead when I pulled too much i.e. like mentioned 3x Storm Attronachs.

But after some time I remembered that I have banked Vengeance Leach jewelry. Suddenly, I hardly ever used Vigor in Spellscar. This set is huge difference when grinding large mobs. If I used it from the start, I would gain CP much faster, but lesson learned.

Magicka vs stamina
As you can see in my signature, I have leveled magicka Sorcerer and even with the wrong race (Bosmer), it‘s just easy mode. Now I understand why people say that magicka is better and why those Sorcerers melt Spellscar super fast. Press Power Surge and Boundless Storm and melt everything on your way.

Basically as bow/bow stamina I have to use 3x jewelry and to do killing blows to survive huge mobs and Sorcerer has to just press one skill and not only gets higher healing but also Major Sorcery so no need for potions like I need on Nightblade.

Nightblade vs Dragonknight vs Warden bow/bow
I don‘t like Templar class… and stamina Sorcerer doesn‘t have sence for me RP wise…

This is of course my experience and opinion as solo player.
Nightblade > Dragonknight > Warden as bow/bow but I prefer Warden for playing above DK. My thoughts and experience:

Nightblade
1) I really feel lack of the super powerful melee execute (Killer‘s Blade). Yes, bear can be used for execute but can‘t be spammed.
2) Soul Harvest generates stupidly high ultimate numbers and combined with Dawnbreaker is super ultimate combo.

My DPS is 20-25k which is above average and I am aware why I lack more firepower:
1) No vMA bow and probably never will.
2) I don‘t use Essence of Weapon Power so no source of Major Brutality unless there is DK in group. As I typed I don‘t want to spend valuable plants on PvE, only PvP.
3) Shadow Silk is obviously lower DPS than Rearming Trap but I use both depending on content.
4) I don‘t use poisons on back bar.
5) Perfecting rotation (light attacks weaving).
6) A bit better gear.

With above I would easily crack 30k, but I am perfectly fine as is now. As playing as DK and Warden tank when I see how bad DPS is most of time...

Dragonknight
My provisional skill bars:
1) Lethal Arrow – Noxious Breath – Venomous Claw – Hardened Armor* – Camouflaged Hunter // Dawnbreaker of Smithing
2) Shadow Silk or Rearming Trap – Endless Hail – Acid Spray or Poison Injection – Razor Caltrops** – Igneous Weapons // Ballista***

*Until I get Vigor in Cyrodiil.
**See above.
***I have fully leveled Standard of Might and Corrosive Armor so I can switch depending on situation.

DK bow/bow is great for solo play as has very good skills for killing melee enemies if they come into your melee range.

Warden
I like bow/bow Warden but even more as playing as OHaS/OHaS tank. So overall I really like Warden class as Nightblade, too.

My provisional skill bars:
1) Lethal Arrow – Cutting Dive – Subterranean Assault – Acid Spray – Ice Fortress // Wild Guardian
2) Rearming Trap – Endless Hail – Poison Injection – Razor Caltrops* – Lotus Flower – Bull Netch // Wild Guardian

*Have to visit Cyrodiil…

As solo player I find Warden bow/bow a bit problematic if enemies reach you into melee range and they do. With NB and DK it‘s relatively easy to kill them in the melee range, but with Warden… The only solution I see is to use Danwbreaker when playing solo and bear in group play.

My next message will be about gear as I have some qustions about it i.e. I have leveled skills for DK and Warden (except PvP one) but don't have gear as I don't know what to do...

exiars10

@SodanTok

About DK gear
I don‘t have gear as I typed as I don‘t know what to do... I defenitely want to go poison route for RP reasons and I‘m aware it‘s not fully optimal – it is if there are more stamina DKs if I understood correctly (basically trial situation). I‘ll reorganize my skill bars to use all 6 poison abilities. I read older messages like this one:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4888583/#Comment_4888583
So basically:
2x Spawn of Mephala* + 5x Morag Tong + 5x Hunding‘s Rage / something else ???

Is this all right?

*I plan to use 1x Kra‘gh, but I‘ll farm Mephala so it‘s on stand by and ready to use once Summerset patch hits.
I don‘t have a problem playing DK in melee range as I already do that with Nighblade.

About Warden gear
Is Bone Pirate‘s Tatters ok for PvE? I farmed it last night as Warden tank as was pledge but can‘t get necklace for life (got rings) and I constantly get armor with impenetrable trait (only one divine!) so basically I have set for PvP… which is great as I have to go to Cyrodiil for Horn, Vigor and Caltrops but still I deconned so much impenetrable . Even more absurd are weapons as I only get various staves! WT…?!
As I typed, I planned to use Unfathomable Darkness cause it‘s animal based process set but crit is going to be removed …

1x Kra‘gh + 5x Bone Pirate‘s Tatters ??? + Spriggan‘s Thorns / something else???

Once Summerset hits, is it ok to use 1x Kra‘gh helmet + 1x Velidreth or Molag Kena shoulder?

As always, I don't play trials so no trial gear. Maybe one day ...