Feel free to laugh at me!

VirtualElizabeth

Explain what is meant by "burst" when it comes to pvp? lol.

What classes have good burst and why?

SirAndy

Burst means you can stack enough damage to burst down another player with your initial attack to either one-shot them or only needing a quick followup attack to finish them off.

Those builds are often themselves rather squishy and can be easily killed which is why many of them rely on stealth to keep them alive.


PS: Nightblades are a good example for that ...

wyterice24b14_ESO

"Grabs popcorn"

Waffennacht

Several damage abilities occiring simultaneously

I.e. Curse, Wrath, and frag hitting at once

VirtualElizabeth

@SirAndy Mag nightblades for example?

@Waffennacht Is this opposed to like the Magplar which is larger DOT or how I play it. Basically all the skills can hit the player fairly quickly with its major amount of damage on the front end, as opposed to DOT.

LOL yeah I have been playing this game for years in PVP, largely as a Magplar though.

Waffennacht

I would agree with your assessment

Minno

Imagine you bought a pizza pie. In pve, you take your time eating the entire pie, but being careful to not go too slow (sustained dps).

Now in PvP, your going to want to eat that entire pizza all at once lol. Then when it's done, your going to do it again and again until you bathe in the blood of your enemies!

Kartalin

Magplars are not known for their burst. But if you apply purifying light, put consistent pressure on the target with sweeps, and then dawnbreaker them right before the purifying light goes off you can generate some burst and get a target low for radiant to finish them off.

SirAndy

VirtualElizabeth wrote: »

@SirAndy Mag nightblades for example?

Yeah, both Stamblades and Magblades can be used for a good burst character.

VirtualElizabeth

Waffennacht wrote: »

I would agree with your assessment

YAY! So in some ways "damage" in this game falls into two categories: DOT and burst.

Now with the Stam Warden - this class has great burst because of birds and couple other things that hit hard and fast. Would the beetles fall into this category? I mean they are delayed slightly but you could hit the beetles then the birds for the damage to hit almost at the same time or very close together.

VirtualElizabeth

Minno wrote: »

Imagine you bought a pizza pie. In pve, you take your time eating the entire pie, but being careful to not go too slow (sustained dps).

Now in PvP, your going to want to eat that entire pizza all at once lol. Then when it's done, your going to do it again and again until you bathe in the blood of your enemies!

Yeah! For my PVE friends I have to explain to them their complicated "rotations" (really not that complicated but you know what I mean) should be replaced with combos i.e quick and easy stacking of skills for the max benefit.

VirtualElizabeth

Kartalin wrote: »

Magplars are not known for their burst. But if you apply purifying light, put consistent pressure on the target with sweeps, and then dawnbreaker them right before the purifying light goes off you can generate some burst and get a target low for radiant to finish them off.

Yup which is why I always equipped for even balance of sustain and damage with my sets. So when I start looking at other builds for other classes and I see little sustain I get scared and run awayyyyyyyyy.

casparian

Every class is capable of good burst. "Burst" just refers to having several instances of damage occuring so quickly that the opposing player has little or no time to react, as opposed to slowly whittling them down.

If you're on magplar, then you have plenty of burst potential. What you want to look for are ways to make several abilities hit at once. Purifying Light is one of the best tools for doing this in the game. Throw up a Purifying Light, DOT up the enemy with Reflective Light and Jabs, then hit them with a CC (bonus points if it's a hard-hitting one like Dawnbreaker of Smiting) just before Purifying goes off, and they will take tremendous damage all at once if you're built right.

VirtualElizabeth

@casparian Dawnbreaker on a Magplar? Interesting!

Kartalin

Thanks for reiterating my post casparian

VirtualElizabeth

Thanks @Kartalin! I saw yours too. Do you run Dawnbreaker on your Magplar also?

casparian

Kartalin wrote: »

Thanks for reiterating my post casparian

I read through the whole thread thinking "how has no one told her about Purifying Light yet?" but somehow skipped right over yours. @VirtualElizabeth Kartalin is a better player than me, listen to them.

Takes-No-Prisoner

I run Dawnbreaker on my MagSorc.

Lord-Otto

VirtualElizabeth wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I would agree with your assessment

YAY! So in some ways "damage" in this game falls into two categories: DOT and burst.

Now with the Stam Warden - this class has great burst because of birds and couple other things that hit hard and fast. Would the beetles fall into this category? I mean they are delayed slightly but you could hit the beetles then the birds for the damage to hit almost at the same time or very close together.

No.
It would be "DPS" and burst.
"DoT" is a damage type, the opposite is "direct damage".

Birds are a dps move. Shalks are meant for burst, you try to time their damage with another high-damaging move, preferrably Dawnbreaker ult.

Kartalin

Yep, between the damage and the knockdown it’s a very strong ultimate regardless of being a magicka or stamina spec. Crescent Sweep is similar and has a cheaper cost, but the damage and dot are not quite as strong and it doesn’t have the knockdown.

Dawnbreaker is also really painful for vampires and transformed werewolves.

VirtualElizabeth

@Lord-Otto Could you compare "DPS" to like stacking damage i.e throwing your birds over and over and over LOL.

Takes-No-Prisoner

Birds are a good way of baiting a reaction too, not just putting damage on the opponent.

So if you get a guy who wants to roll dodge all day, and you had birds on that bar, well, send them out to play

Waffennacht

Warden is burst with beetles, birds and anything instant

The term used for "dps" "dots" etc doesn't matter, I typically just call them "brawlers" fighting until your opponent just cannot deal and subcomes to death.

The idea is the same though, long TTK vs Short TTK

CavalryPK

From a magblade perspective:

When you engage your opponent in an intimate dance of life and death. As a magblade you have to consistently pump your tool (Merciless Resolve) 5 times in a row to build up adequate burst to achieve the moment of bliss (Kill combo).

You see in a stressful situation when your opponent is being difficult it is not easy to keep the same rhythm. You have you improvise and sort of go into the zone and find your tempo.

Believe me it is very satisfying when you become good at it. At certain skill level you can burst every 5 pumps.

Hope this was helpful.

Takes-No-Prisoner

CavalryPK wrote: »

From a magblade perspective:

When you engage your opponent in an intimate dance of life and death. As a magblade you have to consistently pump your tool (Merciless Resolve) 5 times in a row to build up adequate burst to achieve the moment of bliss (Kill combo).

You see in a stressful situation when your opponent is being difficult it is not easy to keep the same rhythm. You have you improvise and sort of go into the zone and find your tempo.

Believe me it is very satisfying when you become good at it. At certain skill level you can burst every 5 pumps.

Hope this was helpful.

I like your terminology here


But yes, being in the zone, feels so good. The goal of every PvPer

Lord-Otto

VirtualElizabeth wrote: »

@Lord-Otto Could you compare "DPS" to like stacking damage i.e throwing your birds over and over and over LOL.

The exact definition might appear a bit fluid. If I were to more closely pinpoint it down, I would describe it like this:
A burst is the sum of high damaging moves that are delivered in a very short sequence, typically not more than a global cooldown (1 second).

In the Stamden's example, let's assume Birds hit for 7k, Shalks for 10k after 2 seconds, Dawnbreaker for 10k when available.
Spamming Birds would give you 7k DPS and 7k burst. Spamming Shalks would give you 5k dps and 10k burst. Activating Shalks and using a Bird would give you 8.5k dps and a good 17k burst. Using Dawnbreaker on top of that would give you 27k burst - enough to kill.

Emmagoldman

VirtualElizabeth wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I would agree with your assessment

YAY! So in some ways "damage" in this game falls into two categories: DOT and burst.

Now with the Stam Warden - this class has great burst because of birds and couple other things that hit hard and fast. Would the beetles fall into this category? I mean they are delayed slightly but you could hit the beetles then the birds for the damage to hit almost at the same time or very close together.

Yep! Subterranian assualt into a heavy attack/ dizzying swing/dawnbreaker/ execute. The first three hit almost at once, the second two during the knockback

Thogard

VirtualElizabeth wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I would agree with your assessment

YAY! So in some ways "damage" in this game falls into two categories: DOT and burst.

Now with the Stam Warden - this class has great burst because of birds and couple other things that hit hard and fast. Would the beetles fall into this category? I mean they are delayed slightly but you could hit the beetles then the birds for the damage to hit almost at the same time or very close together.

Yes, this is the easiest Stam burst to line up in the game.

Shalks takes 3s, birds take 1s, dawnbreaker is instant. So...

1s activate shalks
2s gap close (stampede)
3s activate bird
4s activate dawnbreaker - shalks lands - birds land - dawnbreaker lands

The reason why burst is important is because of healing. Most heals are heal over time. The longer the period of time you spread your damage out over, the more time your opponent will have for their heals to tic (and also to land CC on you)

Minno

Kartalin wrote: »

Yep, between the damage and the knockdown it’s a very strong ultimate regardless of being a magicka or stamina spec. Crescent Sweep is similar and has a cheaper cost, but the damage and dot are not quite as strong and it doesn’t have the knockdown.

Dawnbreaker is also really painful for vampires and transformed werewolves.

Crescent was better when it scaled off mag for magplars. Now it feels we are pigeonholed into Dawnbreaker in certain cases.

VirtualElizabeth

Great responses all! Thanks to all who have contributed so far!

ManwithBeard9

Minno wrote: »

Imagine you bought a pizza pie. In pve, you take your time eating the entire pie, but being careful to not go too slow (sustained dps).

Now in PvP, your going to want to eat that entire pizza all at once lol. Then when it's done, your going to do it again and again until you bathe in the blood of your enemies!

now im hungry.