On Snares and Roots

Firstmep

Hey guys, i just wanted to make a post about my thoughts on the current PvP situtation with snares and roots.
So to start things off i play a variety of classes so ive been on both ends of the spectrum, that being sad i main stamina templar/sorc so i may be more than a little biased towards medium armor.
A little history: before the morrowind update, when sustain was easy snares werent really that big of an issue, they werent spammed as much, and shuffle worked great.
These days however, after the loss of cp cost reduction, nerfing medium armor cost reduction and the general 5% increase to all stam skill in Morrowind, shuffle is now way too expensive.
This skill has gotten a lot of flak in the past for the dodge chance being too strong, however i have always used it solely for the snare/root removal.

I will say this, there is absolutely no reason why snare removal should be this costly, wheter its giving up a burst heal from losing rally, running shuffle that is stupid expensive or mist form on magicka which disables all your healing and your passive mag recovery. In the meanwhile theres so many cheap skills, that apply snares as only an afterthought: Cripppling grasp and vamps bane are just some examples. They you have your brutal snares like low slash, stampede etc.

In heavy armor its even worse now, it pigeonholes people into running tanky ass builds, so that they can stand there ground and not be bothered by snares as much. In medium, snares destroy your sustain since you often have to spam shuffle, and unchained is only aviable every so often, not to mention immov pots means you wont be cc breaking that often. Sometimes i let myself get hit by weak ccs just to proc unchained.

Well thats it for the problem, now for the solution. Just to be clear this is just my opinion, feel free to shut me down /disagree etc.
I think a few things should happen for medium armor, maybe not all but at least one of these:
Shuffle-s snare immunity duration double( so make it 1 sec per medium piece), or reduce the cost although the duration buff would be better.
Give medium armor a flat % increase to general move speed( so not just sprinting) per piece of medium armor worn or a set value for 5 pieces( This would fit well into mediums high mobility gameplay, would benefit all stamina classes, would make it easier to break LoS, especially aganist undodgeable abilities like soul assault or birds).
Give 2 sec of snare iummunity after dodgerolling( this would benefit heavy armor as well so some may disagree with this one)
Another alternative: Make Elude( the other morph of shuffle that no one uses), provide a reduction to snare effects for the entier duration of the skill, something like 10% per medium piece, or 50% flat for 5 pieces. This would mean that you could choose between being completely immunte to snares for a short duration, or getting a reduction for a longer duration.

Lastly i wanted to talk about mist form, for all of you magicka users out there: This skill has been broken forever, so many things still snare you while in mist form its not even funny. The skill comes at a high price, the least you can do ZoS is to make it so that it does what it says in the tooltip.

As you may have guessed from this post i really hate snares, i really do. A couple days ago i swapped out my bone pirate set for rangers gait, thats how much i hate snares.

Anyhow: Discuss!(please do:P)

Waffennacht

I think your suggestions are fine. I was always surprised elude increased the duration of Evasion, which is like... Meh at best.

One should have a reduced cost, while the other has a longer snare immunity.

Fixing mist form should just be.

Anyway, not a bad post

Chilly-McFreeze

If you wish, I will print this out, sign it and hang it above my monitor. The only thing this snarefest accomplishes is snaring me more on other games than this one.

Minno

So we all remember when they added all the snares?
I can't, so I wanted to see where to start relating this to how to increase mobility across all toons.

For example, templars weren't originally designed to be a class that runs around the world teleporting or hiding but at some point the collection of buffs to snares and nerfs to mobility increases created a sluggish combat system that pushed players to stacking defense/dmg instead of through builds to increase mobility. Templars also werent intended to face tank enemies like DK's were designed. To compensate, we were given a gap closer, a way to purge immobilzes, ranged abilities, and 2 important abilities that reflected attacks+caused the enemy to miss their attacks.

But since the begining of the game, our skills were reduced and mobility impacted by increased snares:
- blinding flashes removed entirely.
- class shield nerfed and hidden behind health stat
- major mending replaced with minor mending
- jabs heal nerfed because we had major mending but never revised when we had major mending removed.
- purge cost increased
- increased debuff stacking making purge harder to remove immobilze/snares
- gap closer at least functional, but you need to remove your immobilze debuff first.
- total dark hidden behind cc imunity without secondary effect to help offset this.
- gap closers snare players.
- snare percentages increased with additional sources of snares added.
- snares are spamable.

With all the snares, i feel like the sources of snares should have an equal cooldown/limitation as the abilities that counter them. Also, if gap closer snare were to be removed, they could compensate their failure to 100% hit their mark but giving those classes/builds major expedition or snare immunity with a cooldown. This way players should finish their gap closer with a sprint instead of slowing down the game.

Just my two cents. I am sure DK's feel the same way; they don't want to roll SnB but feel like the game punishes them for not looking at ways to speed up their class.

Strider__Roshin

Whenever I watch older PvP footage it amazes me how much faster and smoother the game ran before IC. Snares really do need to get adjusted. They're not fun

Firstmep

Thanks for the replies. Yeah my suggestion are to make medium armor more appealing for stamina by increasing mobilty, but mag classes need some way to battle snares. Running a greatsword on my magplar for forward momentum is just not fun.

SodanTok

I never get why snares are on abilities that offer good enough reason to use them anyway. Snares should be something you intentionally use to snare opponent, not something you use to damage opponent and snare is free bonus. Like dropping caltrops if you want to keep the enemy close. Same goes for CC, where it already applies for most abilities (even more so since removal of CC from frag), you slot CC ability to CC opponent and you mostly avoid using it when opponent is CC immune.

As for suggestions, firstly, given free (over)use of snares, snare immunity either should not be expensive or should not be short. Currently, shuffle is both short (2.5-3.5s) and expensive (~4.3k stamina before reductions), while forward momentum is much better with 5sec and 3k cost (tho it pays its price by being alternative morph of forced must have ability). 5sec of immunity for 3k cost should just be the golden standard for snare removal.
Basically I like all your suggestions, but I would like literally any suggestions that would make snares more bearable. Like making one morph good at evasion (major ev), bad at snare immunity (short) and the second other way (minor ev, long immunity)

As for magicka, I just wish they finally got they own snare removal (at least) if not immunity. So people can finally stop feeling forced to play vampire and ZoS can finally make being vampire more punishing than it is now (even with buffs).

Firstmep

Nice suggestion on elude/shuffle, keep it comimg guys! Im a but worried that snares didnt get adressed in the Monthly combat update threads, so @ZOS_GinaBruno, @ZOS_JessicaFolsom, @ZOS_Wrobel hopefully this will get your attention