Mag/StamBlade Discussion

Texecutioner187

I've finally decided to built a Nightblade and have a few questions for those more experienced:

1. What are the main contrasting differences between Mag and Stam? One better for AoE, one better for single target, one better survivability, one typically higher DPS BUT X tradeoff, etc...
2. I was told for a MagBlade(I'm following Alcast's build here: https://alcasthq.com/eso-magicka-nightblade-build-pve/) that I should be High Elf(based on his build)... but a Nightblade using friend said I wanted to be Dark Elf for the racial flame damage passives.... input?
3. For my MagBlade that I've been building... I've been following Alcast and his build has a Lightning and a Fire staff, but my same buddy says use Fire Staff and Resto staff. Any particular reason why I'd want one and not the other? Any significant tradeoffs?

Thanks so much for your help in advance, looking forward to getting a decently build NB!

Marabornwingrion

jgruberman wrote: »

I've been following Alcast and his build

Stopped reading here. Alcast build is a trash, maybe because he don't even play magblade in raids. His CPs are very badly distributed, for example he has zero points into master-at-arms. I advice you to follow people who play magicka magblade since long time, mastered this class and have much higher parses, instead of someone who made build only because people were asking for it in comment section.

Texecutioner187

Astrid_V wrote: »

I advice you to follow people who play magicka magblade since long time, mastered this class and have much higher parses

Then who do you advise me to check out?

VaxtinTheWolf

I can't shed light on the differences very much. Magicka uses light armor so you have weaker physical defenses, yet have the ability to shield yourself in addition to being ranged. Compared to melee stamina damage, I've overheard read things about stamina doing better damage than Magicka currently but have no personal guarantee about that. As a stamina build, you also have Blade Cloak which reduces AOE damage dealt to you, which I imagine there is a lot of, so that's a big positive but you still lack shielding which can sometimes really help in those up close and personal situations.

Unless you are trying to include yourself in the top percentile club for leaderboard trial runs, don't stress about your race. Although if you do want to be combat effective then a baked elf or the burnt elf are the most recommended choices for magicka based damage due to their passive bonuses for elemental damage, recovery and or Magicka gains.

When you are solo, or doing 4-man content, an Elemental staff and restoration staff is an acceptable combination. You can add a tiny bit of self healing with it and have access to Healing Ward when needed. My assumption for doubling on Elemental staves is to place more focus on dealing damage when in a Trial and leaving sustain to the dedicated healers in the group, and sometimes the tanks who can also support.

NyassaV

Go onto Deltia's website. IDC what you think of him but all the stuff on the site is written by Gilliamtherogue who is one of the best nightblades I've seen and a avid theroycrafter

Magblade is more survivable than stamblade is all I have to say, stamblade has amazing burst and damage capabilities

Texecutioner187

Hollery wrote: »

Go onto Deltia's website. IDC what you think of him but all the stuff on the site is written by Gilliamtherogue who is one of the best nightblades I've seen and a avid theroycrafter

Magblade is more survivable than stamblade is all I have to say, stamblade has amazing burst and damage capabilities

So Deltia's website has current builds on it, but they're just by Gilliamtherogue?

GrigorijMalahevich

It is all fun and games, but #nerfsorc while we are at it

NotNormanBates

really depends on what your trying to do. Best all around spec would be a high elf mag-blade. The reason for this is that you can effective swap staffs types without losing all that much damage vet trial dps wise. In times where extra off-balance isn't needed you can go to double inferno for solely buffing your dps. The reason for this is that while dark elf would potentially give you higher solo dps (bonus fire damage), High elf will allow you to switch back and forth between staves without losing as much damage as dark elfs (slightly lower bonus damage, but gives the bonus to all elements. Ie Shock/inferno/ice). Being a magic spec also gives you access to shields which really come in handy for solo and makes PuGs much more tolerable, especially if your new to the class. Being magic also allows you access to the nightblades most potent healing abilities.

On the other hand, stamina night-blades have the highest solo, single-target damage parses, and VERY good burst damage. When it comes to fully optimized, end-game trials groups their damage is a bit lower then other stamina specs, but is still alot higher then all of the magicka specs in the game right now.

As far as PvP goes, i really don't know.... as far as ik the main way to play nightblades in pvp is to aim for stealth + highburst. I'd assume magblade is still good for bombing big groups, where stamina is still good for 1 on1 (or rather 1 at a time, for the really good players ) I could be really far off on the pvp side though lol.


My advice for an "All-Around Toon" thats highly flexible is a high elf magblade, especially if your new to, or aren't comfortable with stam.

Texecutioner187

NotNormanBates wrote: »

really depends on what your trying to do. Best all around spec would be a high elf mag-blade. The reason for this is that you can effective swap staffs types without losing all that much damage vet trial dps wise. In times where extra off-balance isn't needed you can go to double inferno for solely buffing your dps. The reason for this is that while dark elf would potentially give you higher solo dps (bonus fire damage), High elf will allow you to switch back and forth between staves without losing as much damage as dark elfs (slightly lower bonus damage, but gives the bonus to all elements. Ie Shock/inferno/ice). Being a magic spec also gives you access to shields which really come in handy for solo and makes PuGs much more tolerable, especially if your new to the class. Being magic also allows you access to the nightblades most potent healing abilities.

On the other hand, stamina night-blades have the highest solo, single-target damage parses, and VERY good burst damage. When it comes to fully optimized, end-game trials groups their damage is a bit lower then other stamina specs, but is still alot higher then all of the magicka specs in the game right now.

As far as PvP goes, i really don't know.... as far as ik the main way to play nightblades in pvp is to aim for stealth + highburst. I'd assume magblade is still good for bombing big groups, where stamina is still good for 1 on1 (or rather 1 at a time, for the really good players ) I could be really far off on the pvp side though lol.


My advice for an "All-Around Toon" thats highly flexible is a high elf magblade, especially if your new to, or aren't comfortable with stam.

This is all great but one thing I didn't follow... Why would High Elf allow for switching without losing damage?

Izaki

jgruberman wrote: »

Astrid_V wrote: »

I advice you to follow people who play magicka magblade since long time, mastered this class and have much higher parses

Then who do you advise me to check out?

@gethemshauna

^ This guy.

Texecutioner187

And I don't understand how a Dark Elf flame damage helps a magblade... When does the flame damage come into equation?

VaxtinTheWolf

jgruberman wrote: »

And I don't understand how a Dark Elf flame damage helps a magblade... When does the flame damage come into equation?

Flame Staff Light & Heavy attacks. Wall of Fire. One of the three damage elements of Force Pulse. Flame Damage Enchants. If applicable, Damage sources from Armour set bonuses. I have to assume Synergies that have fire damage source are also included in this.

Texecutioner187

VaxtinTheWolf wrote: »

jgruberman wrote: »

And I don't understand how a Dark Elf flame damage helps a magblade... When does the flame damage come into equation?

Flame Staff Light & Heavy attacks. Wall of Fire. One of the three damage elements of Force Pulse. Flame Damage Enchants. If applicable, Damage sources from Armour set bonuses. I also assume Synergies that have fire damage source are also included in this.

Ahhh yes. So it doesn't directly impact my Nightblade skills as much as it does my destro staff related skills and any other procs for fire related stuffs?

getemshauna

Izaki wrote: »

jgruberman wrote: »

Astrid_V wrote: »

I advice you to follow people who play magicka magblade since long time, mastered this class and have much higher parses

Then who do you advise me to check out?

@gethemshauna

^ This guy.

Thanks :-)

jgruberman wrote: »

I've finally decided to built a Nightblade and have a few questions for those more experienced:

1. What are the main contrasting differences between Mag and Stam? One better for AoE, one better for single target, one better survivability, one typically higher DPS BUT X tradeoff, etc...
2. I was told for a MagBlade(I'm following Alcast's build here: https://alcasthq.com/eso-magicka-nightblade-build-pve/) that I should be High Elf(based on his build)... but a Nightblade using friend said I wanted to be Dark Elf for the racial flame damage passives.... input?
3. For my MagBlade that I've been building... I've been following Alcast and his build has a Lightning and a Fire staff, but my same buddy says use Fire Staff and Resto staff. Any particular reason why I'd want one and not the other? Any significant tradeoffs?

Thanks so much for your help in advance, looking forward to getting a decently build NB!

1. In this game, Stamina builds are more similiar to each other than difference between Magicka/Stamina in a single class. Same goes for Magicka (In PvE instance). So basically - Stamina anwsers for huge single target melee DPS, Magicka anwsers for ranged supportive dps (current meta) with Shock Blockade and strong AoE Cleave due to Destro ult. In veteran dungeons and normal trials it doesn't matter at all, but in end-game score runs PvE group composition has a huge impact to the effectiveness. Stamina Nightblade except decent single target is one of the two best Major Slayer bringer, due to their great combination with low ultimate cost (Incapitating Strike) and set War Machine. Magicka Nightblade has currently best ranged DPS, but rotation isn't easiest and requires a lot of practice to master it out (mostly because his mechanics base on light attacks and weave, animation canceling). Also, nightblades are known for strongest execute (part of the fight below 25%), and having buff Minor Berserk on their own (8% damage increase), what is granted from healer aswell (combat prayer, restoration staff skill line) but in some boss fights it's very difficult to hold it above 50% (most vHoF bossess)
2. In current meta Altmer is much better choice than Dunmer. First reason is, 10% magicka recovery is very meaningfull stat after Morrowind sustain changes. Second reason is that - you probably want to have Shock Enchant on Infused staff and Lightning Blockade, what brings your team Minor Vulnerability (8% more damage taken, debuff) and offbalance (10% more damage taken, debuff, but requires Exploiter perk in champion points, and target needs to have Minor Vulnerability, that's why this combo is very strong). Both are Shock damage, and maybe you want to use Illambris set, what is additional reason to pick Altmer over Dunmer. Less meaningful reason is they have 1% more max magicka, what in end-game gives you around 60 effective spell power. The only source of Fire damage is probably inferno staff on frontbar or Destro ult, eventually Fire klench, but it's better to balance it out. Altmer gives 4% overall, dunmer 7% fire 2% shock. I personally use Dunmer for Lore reasons, but for min-max build I'd surely pick Altmer.
3. If you want to be competetive DPS, you need to drop restoration staff. It doesn't increase your dps. Quick anwser.

For more build questions or gear choice ask me again in this thread, if you will need it.

Sixty5

Dunmer used to be the better choice in terms of race, but given the meta shift towards using Lightning Blockade over Fire Blockade, there is less overall flame damage to amp up in your kit.

Altmer is going to give you more max resources to scale your non-elemental damage off as well as 10% Magicka recovery, and a better spread of elemental damage.

To be fair though, racial choice really doesn't make a huge difference, Altmer, Breton, Dunmer, Argonian, all work just fine in the end.

In PVE DPS you always want to go double destro. Lightning and Flame is the most meta setup, as you'll be able to buff both your single target and aoe damage, and can set your bars up to reflect that. Destro/Resto is more for PVP, or running VMA.

As far as Magicka Nightblade vs Stam Nightblade goes, as Magicka you will be bringing a lot more group utility with Funnel Health, as well as slightly better cleave dps due to having access to Lightning Staff.
Magblade can also be played from range and has access to shields, meaning that it tends to be a safer class to play than Stamblade.

As far as Alcast's build goes, the gear is fine, but the CP is off. Magblade has a lot of direct damage, so you'll want 30 or so in Master At Arms. Having more into Healing Received is also pretty nice to boost your survivability on the class.

Stoopid_Nwah

For PVE
1. Stam has higher single target damage but is squishier. Mag can provide lightning blockade for support and be ranged while still pulling high dps. Mag also is nice if playing support dps type laying out refreshing path and funnel health for speed vdsa or dungeon runs when your group doesn't run a healer.
2. If you go inferno/inferno dark elf, if inferno/lightning high elf, but honestly the difference isn't going to make or break you. Keep in mind lightning staves allow for heavy attacks for more aoe damage.
3. Resto is no good in pve for dps, you'll want two destro staves.

For PVP
1. Both are great, but mag is more versatile imo for build options (bombers, saptanks, pseudo sorcs, etc). Stam is better for a stealthy in an out playstyle and the burst is easier to setup/faster/more on demand while a magnb can have equally hard hitting burst with better healing and defence, but the burst is all reflectable/dodgeable and can be difficult to get the hang of setting up.
2. If you plan to pvp and want to switch between stam and mag then go dark elf.
3. Here is where a destro/resto setup makes sense for magnb because you need a burst heal i.e. healing ward.

SoLooney

magblades are strong single target and offer nice group utility

stamblades are meh, really only good for pvp

im answering this in terms of end game content, both classes are good in pvp

Texecutioner187

@gethemshauna Am I going to be noticeably limiting myself in any way if I go to Dark Elf rather that High Elf? Currently, the char is a dark elf because of recommendation and gilliamtherogue's video. I can go either way, just wanted to know major impact either way...

getemshauna

jgruberman wrote: »

@gethemshauna Am I going to be noticeably limiting myself in any way if I go to Dark Elf rather that High Elf? Currently, the char is a dark elf because of recommendation and gilliamtherogue's video. I can go either way, just wanted to know major impact either way...

I think the difference isn't really gamebreaking, but currently there is no reason to pick Dunmer over Altmer. If you already have exped Dunmer, stick to that, but have in mind that it's always good to have both races prepared just in case.

Texecutioner187

gethemshauna wrote: »

jgruberman wrote: »

@gethemshauna Am I going to be noticeably limiting myself in any way if I go to Dark Elf rather that High Elf? Currently, the char is a dark elf because of recommendation and gilliamtherogue's video. I can go either way, just wanted to know major impact either way...

I think the difference isn't really gamebreaking, but currently there is no reason to pick Dunmer over Altmer. If you already have exped Dunmer, stick to that, but have in mind that it's always good to have both races prepared just in case.

Thank you. I hope you don't mind questions in the future. I'm trying to learn as I go, the challenge is just to find reputable sources to learn FROM

getemshauna

jgruberman wrote: »

gethemshauna wrote: »

jgruberman wrote: »

@gethemshauna Am I going to be noticeably limiting myself in any way if I go to Dark Elf rather that High Elf? Currently, the char is a dark elf because of recommendation and gilliamtherogue's video. I can go either way, just wanted to know major impact either way...

I think the difference isn't really gamebreaking, but currently there is no reason to pick Dunmer over Altmer. If you already have exped Dunmer, stick to that, but have in mind that it's always good to have both races prepared just in case.

Thank you. I hope you don't mind questions in the future. I'm trying to learn as I go, the challenge is just to find reputable sources to learn FROM

I was anwsering people questions for half a year already in youtube, so feel free I'll surely share my expirence ;-D

IlCanis_LupuslI

Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »

For PVE
1. Stam has higher single target damage but is squishier. Mag can provide lightning blockade for support and be ranged while still pulling high dps. Mag also is nice if playing support dps type laying out refreshing path and funnel health for speed vdsa or dungeon runs when your group doesn't run a healer.
2. If you go inferno/inferno dark elf, if inferno/lightning high elf, but honestly the difference isn't going to make or break you. Keep in mind lightning staves allow for heavy attacks for more aoe damage.
3. Resto is no good in pve for dps, you'll want two destro staves.

For PVP
1. Both are great, but mag is more versatile imo for build options (bombers, saptanks, pseudo sorcs, etc). Stam is better for a stealthy in an out playstyle and the burst is easier to setup/faster/more on demand while a magnb can have equally hard hitting burst with better healing and defence, but the burst is all reflectable/dodgeable and can be difficult to get the hang of setting up.
2. If you plan to pvp and want to switch between stam and mag then go dark elf.
3. Here is where a destro/resto setup makes sense for magnb because you need a burst heal i.e. healing ward.

You can do both. I have no problems in PvP (i play a heavy armor Ww Beserker setup for brawling pretty successful) and in raids (34 k dps self buffed as a Woodelf) it's preference a magblade feels more like a Mage(kinda) and a stamblade feels more like a Rogue like playstyle. And btw ive flawlessed vmsa so don't let anyone tell you pve isnt possible as a stamblade even if your the “worst pve race=woodelf“
Bs imo
Stamblade has just as much build veriety as magblade you don't have to play a permastealthing, permadodgeing sob in pvp and the damage is pretty good in pve

Stoopid_Nwah

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »

For PVE
1. Stam has higher single target damage but is squishier. Mag can provide lightning blockade for support and be ranged while still pulling high dps. Mag also is nice if playing support dps type laying out refreshing path and funnel health for speed vdsa or dungeon runs when your group doesn't run a healer.
2. If you go inferno/inferno dark elf, if inferno/lightning high elf, but honestly the difference isn't going to make or break you. Keep in mind lightning staves allow for heavy attacks for more aoe damage.
3. Resto is no good in pve for dps, you'll want two destro staves.

For PVP
1. Both are great, but mag is more versatile imo for build options (bombers, saptanks, pseudo sorcs, etc). Stam is better for a stealthy in an out playstyle and the burst is easier to setup/faster/more on demand while a magnb can have equally hard hitting burst with better healing and defence, but the burst is all reflectable/dodgeable and can be difficult to get the hang of setting up.
2. If you plan to pvp and want to switch between stam and mag then go dark elf.
3. Here is where a destro/resto setup makes sense for magnb because you need a burst heal i.e. healing ward.

You can do both. I have no problems in PvP (i play a heavy armor Ww Beserker setup for brawling pretty successful) and in raids (34 k dps self buffed as a Woodelf) it's preference a magblade feels more like a Mage(kinda) and a stamblade feels more like a Rogue like playstyle. And btw ive flawlessed vmsa so don't let anyone tell you pve isnt possible as a stamblade even if your the “worst pve race=woodelf“
Bs imo
Stamblade has just as much build veriety as magblade you don't have to play a permastealthing, permadodgeing sob in pvp and the damage is pretty good in pve

? I'm not sure what you're trying to tell me. I have gone flawless on a few stam nb toons and mag nbs all different classes. Woodelf isn't the worst race for stam pve, but it's certainly not best. Self buffed as a nb you can push significantly higher self buffed dps especially if you go khajiit or redguard; if you cheese you can easily hit the 50k mark on a self buffed dps test.

Additionally, I find werewolves in pvp really only take out noobs (don't get me wrong they excel at this) or fight with zergs...root the werewolf or reflect and they're a dead wolf lol, and I still disagree about stam nb having just as much build variability. They can't do a sap tank, they can't do a hot build, they can't play a healing build, etc.

Texecutioner187

Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »

For PVE
1. Stam has higher single target damage but is squishier. Mag can provide lightning blockade for support and be ranged while still pulling high dps. Mag also is nice if playing support dps type laying out refreshing path and funnel health for speed vdsa or dungeon runs when your group doesn't run a healer.
2. If you go inferno/inferno dark elf, if inferno/lightning high elf, but honestly the difference isn't going to make or break you. Keep in mind lightning staves allow for heavy attacks for more aoe damage.
3. Resto is no good in pve for dps, you'll want two destro staves.

For PVP
1. Both are great, but mag is more versatile imo for build options (bombers, saptanks, pseudo sorcs, etc). Stam is better for a stealthy in an out playstyle and the burst is easier to setup/faster/more on demand while a magnb can have equally hard hitting burst with better healing and defence, but the burst is all reflectable/dodgeable and can be difficult to get the hang of setting up.
2. If you plan to pvp and want to switch between stam and mag then go dark elf.
3. Here is where a destro/resto setup makes sense for magnb because you need a burst heal i.e. healing ward.

You can do both. I have no problems in PvP (i play a heavy armor Ww Beserker setup for brawling pretty successful) and in raids (34 k dps self buffed as a Woodelf) it's preference a magblade feels more like a Mage(kinda) and a stamblade feels more like a Rogue like playstyle. And btw ive flawlessed vmsa so don't let anyone tell you pve isnt possible as a stamblade even if your the “worst pve race=woodelf“
Bs imo
Stamblade has just as much build veriety as magblade you don't have to play a permastealthing, permadodgeing sob in pvp and the damage is pretty good in pve

? I'm not sure what you're trying to tell me. I have gone flawless on a few stam nb toons and mag nbs all different classes. Woodelf isn't the worst race for stam pve, but it's certainly not best. Self buffed as a nb you can push significantly higher self buffed dps especially if you go khajiit or redguard; if you cheese you can easily hit the 50k mark on a self buffed dps test.

Additionally, I find werewolves in pvp really only take out noobs (don't get me wrong they excel at this) or fight with zergs...root the werewolf or reflect and they're a dead wolf lol, and I still disagree about stam nb having just as much build variability. They can't do a sap tank, they can't do a hot build, they can't play a healing build, etc.

How exactly do you "cheese" a DPS test?

getemshauna

jgruberman wrote: »

Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »

For PVE
1. Stam has higher single target damage but is squishier. Mag can provide lightning blockade for support and be ranged while still pulling high dps. Mag also is nice if playing support dps type laying out refreshing path and funnel health for speed vdsa or dungeon runs when your group doesn't run a healer.
2. If you go inferno/inferno dark elf, if inferno/lightning high elf, but honestly the difference isn't going to make or break you. Keep in mind lightning staves allow for heavy attacks for more aoe damage.
3. Resto is no good in pve for dps, you'll want two destro staves.

For PVP
1. Both are great, but mag is more versatile imo for build options (bombers, saptanks, pseudo sorcs, etc). Stam is better for a stealthy in an out playstyle and the burst is easier to setup/faster/more on demand while a magnb can have equally hard hitting burst with better healing and defence, but the burst is all reflectable/dodgeable and can be difficult to get the hang of setting up.
2. If you plan to pvp and want to switch between stam and mag then go dark elf.
3. Here is where a destro/resto setup makes sense for magnb because you need a burst heal i.e. healing ward.

You can do both. I have no problems in PvP (i play a heavy armor Ww Beserker setup for brawling pretty successful) and in raids (34 k dps self buffed as a Woodelf) it's preference a magblade feels more like a Mage(kinda) and a stamblade feels more like a Rogue like playstyle. And btw ive flawlessed vmsa so don't let anyone tell you pve isnt possible as a stamblade even if your the “worst pve race=woodelf“
Bs imo
Stamblade has just as much build veriety as magblade you don't have to play a permastealthing, permadodgeing sob in pvp and the damage is pretty good in pve

? I'm not sure what you're trying to tell me. I have gone flawless on a few stam nb toons and mag nbs all different classes. Woodelf isn't the worst race for stam pve, but it's certainly not best. Self buffed as a nb you can push significantly higher self buffed dps especially if you go khajiit or redguard; if you cheese you can easily hit the 50k mark on a self buffed dps test.

Additionally, I find werewolves in pvp really only take out noobs (don't get me wrong they excel at this) or fight with zergs...root the werewolf or reflect and they're a dead wolf lol, and I still disagree about stam nb having just as much build variability. They can't do a sap tank, they can't do a hot build, they can't play a healing build, etc.

How exactly do you "cheese" a DPS test?

Lover mundus stone, to reach more penetration what you would get anyway in trial from things like crusher, sunderflame or NMG. Axe, what puts bleed on the target which ignores armor. In trial you want dagger, because it scales with Major Force from aggresive horn, and works twice as good as axe in AoE.
Not sustainable rotation, when dps test ends ur stamina is equal to 0.
Shock enchant on infused main hand weapon, what gives you 8% more damage due to minor vulnerability debuff, which is granted in group from magickas.
Prismatic enchant, what can be used only of few bossess like Ra Kotu(hrc), Lightning Atro(aa) or Rakkhat(mol). It works also on dummy.
Not using blade cloak, what deals moderate damage but is needed in trials for insane damage reduction.
Green champion points 100 into stam recovery and heavy value restore, what cant be handled in trial because you need also block cost reduction.
Posting inflated parses where your significant skill (impale, assasins scourge) had high crit ratio.
Using sets based on RNG and waiting for decent procs (selenes).
Having a dude in party with set 10% more stamina recovery.
And a lot more, and for magickas cheese possibility list is twice long.

Xvorg

jgruberman wrote: »

And I don't understand how a Dark Elf flame damage helps a magblade... When does the flame damage come into equation?

Destro reach and force shock.

Or in cases like mine you can try a flame based set