Solo and group content in the same zone! ZOS, give us choices!

joaaocaampos

Imagine Wrothgar and Vvardenfell ... They are two solo-leveling zones (like most zones)... Now imagine Craglorn... an endgame zone with group content. I know that many people hate Craglorn. BUT... What do you think of a zone that mixes these two contents (solo-leveling and group)?

If on the map there are 12 delves, 4 of them could be "group delves". Even though I'm talking here about group content, we all know that veteran players can solo Craglorn. After all, I'm not talking about more difficult group content than Craglorn. No! I'm suggesting the same difficulty! A little content for those CP 600+ players (like me) who don't want to find difficulty only in Dungeons and Trials. In addition, content for level 3 characters will continue there!

Rewards? Zenimax could think of a good reward for these challenging contents. A greater chance of getting motifs? Jewelry (since there are no more Dolmens in the new Chapters/DLCs). I don't know!

So what do you guys think?

Runschei

How would you describe group content? Just make some delves and more public dungeons like the public one in Alik'r where they require more than one player to stand on the pressure plate? Nothing is currently stopping you from running solo in a delve, and nothing is currently stopping you from running 16 people in a delve. I do not understand what you want, but I also probably misunderstood your point, so please explain more.

Khenarthi

I don't agree! ZOS should only launch solo-leveling contents!

I was here when Craglorn lauched, and hated it. Many people did, that's why Murkmire is on hold for 2 years already.

And even in its present incarnation, I cannot solo all group delves in Craglorn with all my characters, so I'd love to see those brought to solo-style play, too. Or have the bosses toned down a bit.

You asked for an opinion... here's mine.

danno8

It sounds like what you really want is more difficult solo content.

VaranisArano

Before One Tamriel, Craglorn was dead. Now, the air (zone chat) has the occasional call for help as people seek groups in order to complete group quests. Sure, some of them are soloable with the right build. Most players require a group.

So this idea of solo +group content is great IF you either have an amazing solo build or you have a group or you can persuade enough people to quest with you. Those are reasonably big IFs for completing content that mean most players don't complete the group quests without making a concerted effort. ZOS has been moving to a different form of solo+group content that incentivizes grouping up - namely the World Boss dailies in Vvardenfell and Wrothgar. The benefits of those dailies make it easy to gather a group for a short fight as opposed to a quest.

The goal of content is for everyone to be able to access it at an appropriate level of skill with a minimum level of obstacles. For example, end-game dungeons, Maelstrom Arena, and trials all need an appropriate level of skill, but once that's obtained, those are easy to access. Craglorn, on the other hand, I'm of the appropriate level and could probably solo my way through most of the group quests if I were willing to bang my head into a Boss wall for a long time, but in order to effectively complete the content, I need to either beg in zone chat or beg my friends for a group. That's a substantial obstacle that means I don't run non-solo quests in Craglorn anywhere near as often as I run quests elsewhere.

So what it really comes down to is that ZOS will focus on developing content that is accessible and regularly played by most of its players. The current group content for World Bosses fits that bill nicely, as with sufficient numbers any level can be useful and its easy to get people to come for a single fight. Adding more group quests, on the other hand, are going to be played less, because less players can solo the quest or get together enough players to complete the quests.

Personally, I'd probably enjoy another zone like Craglorn. However, Craglorn's flaws are that the full scope of its content is not accessible to players without making a serious effort to gather a group or get a strong build.

AdamBourke

I don't agree! ZOS should only launch solo-leveling contents!

There is already group content in zones.

Dolmens, World Bosses, Dungeons & Trials are all group content. public dungeons

I don't want the storylines of the zones to be group content because then it'll be annoying when you want to pay attention to the quests and others in your group are just trying to get through it ASAP. In the same way dungeons are at the moment. Delves should remain single player because

I like the current set up of the full-size zones - although it would be nice for something to replace dolmens in newer zones which don't have them.

The smaller zones could do with more dungeons in - I think nether Thieves Guild nor Dark Brotherhood had one - but Clockwork City had the trial. But they also don't have enough solo delves in either. There should be either three solo delves and a dungeon/trial, or a solo delve, a public delve, and a dungeon/trial. And probably 3 world bosses too.

Morrowind should have had more than it did. An extra dungeon, 2 extra delves, and 2 extra world bosses.

sevomd69

Runschei wrote: »

How would you describe group content? Just make some delves and more public dungeons like the public one in Alik'r where they require more than one player to stand on the pressure plate? Nothing is currently stopping you from running solo in a delve, and nothing is currently stopping you from running 16 people in a delve. I do not understand what you want, but I also probably misunderstood your point, so please explain more.

You don't need 2 people to stand on the plates anymore...You can "solo" the puzzle now...

Ragnork

Other! (My suggestion is in the comments!)

I would like more two player content. Harder than delve or public dungeon, but missing mechanics that remove one of the team makining the group dungeon impossible.

Khenarthi

I don't agree! ZOS should only launch solo-leveling contents!

sevomd69 wrote: »

Runschei wrote: »

How would you describe group content? Just make some delves and more public dungeons like the public one in Alik'r where they require more than one player to stand on the pressure plate? Nothing is currently stopping you from running solo in a delve, and nothing is currently stopping you from running 16 people in a delve. I do not understand what you want, but I also probably misunderstood your point, so please explain more.

You don't need 2 people to stand on the plates anymore...You can "solo" the puzzle now...

@sevomd69 You can!? The Alik'r public dungeon one? How?

sevomd69

Khenarthi wrote: »

sevomd69 wrote: »

Runschei wrote: »

How would you describe group content? Just make some delves and more public dungeons like the public one in Alik'r where they require more than one player to stand on the pressure plate? Nothing is currently stopping you from running solo in a delve, and nothing is currently stopping you from running 16 people in a delve. I do not understand what you want, but I also probably misunderstood your point, so please explain more.

You don't need 2 people to stand on the plates anymore...You can "solo" the puzzle now...

@sevomd69 You can!? The Alik'r public dungeon one? How?

You just trigger the plates in order...both beetles...then both scorpions...then spiders...I think that's the order...make sure you do not hit the other plates while walking around...if you do you have to start over again...

Khenarthi

I don't agree! ZOS should only launch solo-leveling contents!

sevomd69 wrote: »

Khenarthi wrote: »

sevomd69 wrote: »

Runschei wrote: »

How would you describe group content? Just make some delves and more public dungeons like the public one in Alik'r where they require more than one player to stand on the pressure plate? Nothing is currently stopping you from running solo in a delve, and nothing is currently stopping you from running 16 people in a delve. I do not understand what you want, but I also probably misunderstood your point, so please explain more.

You don't need 2 people to stand on the plates anymore...You can "solo" the puzzle now...

@sevomd69 You can!? The Alik'r public dungeon one? How?

You just trigger the plates in order...both beetles...then both scorpions...then spiders...I think that's the order...make sure you do not hit the other plates while walking around...if you do you have to start over again...

I can't wait to give this a try with some of my lone wolf characters tonight. Thank you :^)

kojou

I agree! Solo and group content in the same zone!

The problem with Craglorn at the time of release is that the developers were nerfing XP grind spots left and right. By the time they were done the content in Craglorn offered less XP than any other zone and the rewards sucked. I mean who runs "Way of the Air"?

Not only that but when level cap was moved to VR16 they left Craglorn at VR13 and VR14 forever, so you not only got worthless sets, you got under-leveled worthless sets.

IMO the group stuff and quests in Craglorn was some of the best content in the game. Shada's Tear rivaled any Vet Dungeon today, and The Warrior's School was one of the most fun group dungeons I did with my friends at the time. I mean who didn't like the Indiana Jones sand on the invisible bridge effect?

I would love to see another Craglon style zone with several difficult/fun group content events and delves. I think the trick to making it successful would be to scale instanced areas to 1, 2 or 4 players. That way everyone can complete the quests and things even if they are anti-social.

Jeremy

I agree! Solo and group content in the same zone!

joaaocaampos wrote: »

Imagine Wrothgar and Vvardenfell ... They are two solo-leveling zones (like most zones)... Now imagine Craglorn... an endgame zone with group content. I know that many people hate Craglorn. BUT... What do you think of a zone that mixes these two contents (solo-leveling and group)?

If on the map there are 12 delves, 4 of them could be "group delves". Even though I'm talking here about group content, we all know that veteran players can solo Craglorn. After all, I'm not talking about more difficult group content than Craglorn. No! I'm suggesting the same difficulty! A little content for those CP 600+ players (like me) who don't want to find difficulty only in Dungeons and Trials. In addition, content for level 3 characters will continue there!

Rewards? Zenimax could think of a good reward for these challenging contents. A greater chance of getting motifs? Jewelry (since there are no more Dolmens in the new Chapters/DLCs). I don't know!

So what do you guys think?

I like to have zones that accommodate group play. The problem is though we are in the minority. Every MMO game that has tried this has failed and ended up making their zones solo-based. So it seems the vast majority of MMORPG players like to have their landscapes easy and primarily a solo game.

Don't ask me to explain it because I can't. The multiplayer in MMORPGs died awhile go. Now they are just solo games with instanced content on the side for groups if they choose to participate in it.

ADarklore

I don't agree! ZOS should only launch solo-leveling contents!

Jeremy wrote: »

joaaocaampos wrote: »

Imagine Wrothgar and Vvardenfell ... They are two solo-leveling zones (like most zones)... Now imagine Craglorn... an endgame zone with group content. I know that many people hate Craglorn. BUT... What do you think of a zone that mixes these two contents (solo-leveling and group)?

If on the map there are 12 delves, 4 of them could be "group delves". Even though I'm talking here about group content, we all know that veteran players can solo Craglorn. After all, I'm not talking about more difficult group content than Craglorn. No! I'm suggesting the same difficulty! A little content for those CP 600+ players (like me) who don't want to find difficulty only in Dungeons and Trials. In addition, content for level 3 characters will continue there!

Rewards? Zenimax could think of a good reward for these challenging contents. A greater chance of getting motifs? Jewelry (since there are no more Dolmens in the new Chapters/DLCs). I don't know!

So what do you guys think?

I like to have zones that accommodate group play. The problem is though we are in the minority. Every MMO game that has tried this has failed and ended up making their zones solo-based. So it seems the vast majority of MMORPG players like to have their landscapes easy and primarily a solo game.

Don't ask me to explain it because I can't. The multiplayer in MMORPGs died awhile go. Now they are just solo games with instanced content on the side for groups if they choose to participate in it.

Yes, the bolded part is true... why... because at the time ONLY PC players had access to MMOs and even then, only the most die-hard players could afford a system. So for years the 'group only' type of MMOs were dominated by hardcore PC gamers... and then came consoles, and console sales went through the roof... however, even then online gaming wasn't available. Fast forward to today and PC gamers have declined while console players has continue to climb... however, the majority of console players are single-player gamers used to playing SOLO while at the same time, because of all consoles being able to go online, many of these same players want online games to play. Not only that, but also due to console popularity, many of those players also have busy lives and want to be able to come home, jump on for a brief time, and log off (aka "casuals").

Thus, the majority of online gamers today are single-player gamers and casuals who want to enjoy a game, relax, and not be stressed out, have to be competitive, or deal with the drama of others.

This is how and why the original MMORPG "group content format" has increasingly disappeared.

Jeremy

I agree! Solo and group content in the same zone!

ADarklore wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

joaaocaampos wrote: »

Imagine Wrothgar and Vvardenfell ... They are two solo-leveling zones (like most zones)... Now imagine Craglorn... an endgame zone with group content. I know that many people hate Craglorn. BUT... What do you think of a zone that mixes these two contents (solo-leveling and group)?

If on the map there are 12 delves, 4 of them could be "group delves". Even though I'm talking here about group content, we all know that veteran players can solo Craglorn. After all, I'm not talking about more difficult group content than Craglorn. No! I'm suggesting the same difficulty! A little content for those CP 600+ players (like me) who don't want to find difficulty only in Dungeons and Trials. In addition, content for level 3 characters will continue there!

Rewards? Zenimax could think of a good reward for these challenging contents. A greater chance of getting motifs? Jewelry (since there are no more Dolmens in the new Chapters/DLCs). I don't know!

So what do you guys think?

I like to have zones that accommodate group play. The problem is though we are in the minority. Every MMO game that has tried this has failed and ended up making their zones solo-based. So it seems the vast majority of MMORPG players like to have their landscapes easy and primarily a solo game.

Don't ask me to explain it because I can't. The multiplayer in MMORPGs died awhile go. Now they are just solo games with instanced content on the side for groups if they choose to participate in it.

Yes, the bolded part is true... why... because at the time ONLY PC players had access to MMOs and even then, only the most die-hard players could afford a system. So for years the 'group only' type of MMOs were dominated by hardcore PC gamers... and then came consoles, and console sales went through the roof... however, even then online gaming wasn't available. Fast forward to today and PC gamers have declined while console players has continue to climb... however, the majority of console players are single-player gamers used to playing SOLO while at the same time, because of all consoles being able to go online, many of these same players want online games to play. Not only that, but also due to console popularity, many of those players also have busy lives and want to be able to come home, jump on for a brief time, and log off (aka "casuals").

Thus, the majority of online gamers today are single-player gamers and casuals who want to enjoy a game, relax, and not be stressed out, have to be competitive, or deal with the drama of others.

This is how and why the original MMORPG "group content format" has increasingly disappeared.

One of the earlier MMORPGs to hit America was Final Fantasy XI - which was available on console and the first real MMORPG I played. I didn't even own a PC at the time and grew up playing on my nintendo and playstation (consoles). So I don't really agree with your argument and doubt if console vs PC has anything to do with this.

I'm also not a hard core gamer and play games to relax as well. I still however enjoy content that rewards group play. In fact, when I sit down to play a MMORPG that's what I am expecting. So I don't really understand what one has to do with the other. And the obvious question here is if you don't want to deal with other players then why play a multiplayer game?