Maintenance for the week of February 18:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – February 18
• Xbox One: EU megaserver for maintenance – February 20, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
The Wrathstone DLC Game Pack and Update 21 base game patch are now available to test on the PTS! Read the full patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/454456/

Ideas for Stamina Morphs for Sorcerer

NegativeVibes
NegativeVibes
✭✭
As many of you may have noticed, the stamina sorcerer class is fairly lacking in terms of skills for PVP (This post will be focusing on the PVP aspects of the stamina sorcerer rather than PVE). At the moment, the current %100 stamina focused abilities, meaning they cost stamina and deal damage relating to stamina, are Hurricane and Bound Arnaments. Dark Deal and Critical Surge are designed for stamina sorcerers, but every stamina class uses at least one magicka ability for utility. Hurricane is a great skill to use, and I would never go without it. Bound Arnaments on the other hand, due to it being a toggle, thus required to be on both skill bars, isn't as useful in an outnumbered situation in PVP and is very niche. That leaves the stamina sorcerer with one %100 stamina related skill. Stamina sorcerers are required to use weapon skill lines for damage. Of course, every class should be unique, and they should all feel different to play, but stamina dragonknight and stamina templar get some excellent morphs of abilities, while I personally feel stamina sorcerer is lacking in that department. My suggestions for stamina morphs for the sorcerer are as follows:

Crystal Blast Morph (Crystal Shards)
Instant cast, doesn't hit as hard as Crystal Fragments as the latter has to proc. Should be used a spammable ability that is melee ranged and deals damage equivalent to something like surprise attack or screaming cliffracer. Maybe give it minor fracture to make it unique, or nothing at all extra.

Air Atronach Morph (Storm Atronach)
Would summon an air atronach as seen in the Hel Ra trial. It would have less health or resistances that a standard atronach but perhaps it deals more damage and moves while it spins its swords around at enemies. Would be an option for stam sorcs who use the hunt leader set, as class pets are useless. I feel this would fit the theme of the stam sorc being a more of the air and wind aspect of a storm, like Hurricane.

Storm's Fury Morph (Mage's Fury)
Imbue yourself with the energy of the storm and gain major endurance for x seconds and minor brutality for x seconds. It would no longer function as an execute and instead be a buff. This would give sorcerer the same stamina regen buff other classes have access to.

This post is not designed to make the stamina sorcerer class stronger than the others, I just would like it to be more unique and with more variety than it does in its current state. If you have any suggestions, thoughts, or comments relating to the topic please leave them below.
Edited by NegativeVibes on October 30, 2017 11:14PM
  • Sixty5
    Sixty5
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    The problem is that morphs tend to do pretty much the same thing with a couple of minor differences in execution, and a lot of these vary from the base skill by a very wide margin.

    I'd love a stam morph of Crystal Blast to replace Wrecking Blow, but sadly I don't think that will happen.

    As far as the atro goes, it could be cool, but there would need to be a reason to use it over Dawnbreaker.
    Lord and Savior of the Association of Serious S***posters.

    I play a character called "Gives Me Wood Elf" because I am a mature and sensible person.
    Stam Sorc main in Battlegrounds
  • NegativeVibes
    NegativeVibes
    ✭✭

    Sixty5 wrote: »
    The problem is that morphs tend to do pretty much the same thing with a couple of minor differences in execution, and a lot of these vary from the base skill by a very wide margin.

    I'd love a stam morph of Crystal Blast to replace Wrecking Blow, but sadly I don't think that will happen.

    As far as the atro goes, it could be cool, but there would need to be a reason to use it over Dawnbreaker.

    Yea, a problem I came across while thinking of potential morphs was how different it would be from the original ability. With sorcerer being a "sorcerer," it was difficult to think of a way to implement most of their abilities into a stamina variant. I see crystal blast and the air atronach being a possibility, not so much the mages fury morph. I had to stretch it a bit as I could not think of a way that would make sense for a ranged stamina execute based on storm effects.
  • Morgul667
    Morgul667
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Stam sorc could use a little bit of love but not oo much. A spoon of love should be fine :)
  • Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
    Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    ZOS doesnt want sorcs to have a "spammable, just like zos dont want temps to have in class access to the major buffs that temps lack, so asking for a stam spammable is not going to happen.
  • NegativeVibes
    NegativeVibes
    ✭✭
    ZOS doesnt want sorcs to have a "spammable, just like zos dont want temps to have in class access to the major buffs that temps lack, so asking for a stam spammable is not going to happen.

    Yet warden has it all lmao
  • Urza1234
    Urza1234
    ✭✭✭✭
    Morgul667 wrote: »
    Stam sorc could use a little bit of love but not oo much. A spoon of love should be fine :)

    They need flavor, not necessarily love. Spoons and spoons of flavor.

    TBH I actually thought the change to Rune Prison was a pretty nice buff for stam sorc, because it can be an on-demand stun that doesnt rely on a weapon ability and that allows them to combo their burst.

    Reducing or removing the cast time on Dark Deal would be really helpful to stam sorc, cast-time abilities arent super viable for melee characters.

    Bound Armaments would be neat if it was worth 2 whole slots, it isnt.

    They could also add some stam morphs to the pets.

    Honestly I feel like one of the issues with Stam, especially in the case of Sorc, is that ZOS is completely stuck on their design decision that every ability can have only two morphs, so any time Stam gets a morph Magicka has to lose one. If they would just allow certain skills to have more than 2 morphs a whole lot of possibilities would open up. Ive seen a lot of cases of games that are held back by a certain dev being stubborn about an early design decision that didnt bear out after actual release, I wonder if this is one of those cases.
    Edited by Urza1234 on October 31, 2017 2:56AM
  • NegativeVibes
    NegativeVibes
    ✭✭
    Urza1234 wrote: »
    Morgul667 wrote: »
    Stam sorc could use a little bit of love but not oo much. A spoon of love should be fine :)

    They need flavor, not necessarily love. Spoons and spoons of flavor.

    TBH I actually thought the change to Rune Prison was a pretty nice buff for stam sorc, because it can be an on-demand stun that doesnt rely on a weapon ability and that allows them to combo their burst.

    I agree, it's great with dw
  • NegativeVibes
    NegativeVibes
    ✭✭
    Urza1234 wrote: »
    Morgul667 wrote: »
    Stam sorc could use a little bit of love but not oo much. A spoon of love should be fine :)

    They need flavor, not necessarily love. Spoons and spoons of flavor.

    TBH I actually thought the change to Rune Prison was a pretty nice buff for stam sorc, because it can be an on-demand stun that doesnt rely on a weapon ability and that allows them to combo their burst.

    Reducing or removing the cast time on Dark Deal would be really helpful to stam sorc, cast-time abilities arent super viable for melee characters.

    Bound Armaments would be neat if it was worth 2 whole slots, it isnt.

    They could also add some stam morphs to the pets.

    Honestly I feel like one of the issues with Stam, especially in the case of Sorc, is that ZOS is completely stuck on their design decision that every ability can have only two morphs, so any time Stam gets a morph Magicka has to lose one. If they would just allow certain skills to have more than 2 morphs a whole lot of possibilities would open up. Ive seen a lot of cases of games that are held back by a certain dev being stubborn about an early design decision that didnt bear out after actual release, I wonder if this is one of those cases.

    TBH I wouldn't mind if they ever added more abilities to classes. It would allow for more variety even more so.
  • NegativeVibes
    NegativeVibes
    ✭✭
    A big reason why I started this thread is because my stam sorc feels like a stam dk with less options but more mobility.
  • STEVIL
    STEVIL
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Imo

    Crystal mines as a morph for mines, replace minefield, does physical smh with three mines going boom with bleed.

    I also do like the idea of wind atro.





    Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
    YFMV Your Fun May Vary.

    First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
    "The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."

  • NegativeVibes
    NegativeVibes
    ✭✭
    STEVIL wrote: »
    Imo

    Crystal mines as a morph for mines, replace minefield, does physical smh with three mines going boom with bleed.

    I also do like the idea of wind atro.





    I like it.
  • Sixty5
    Sixty5
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    A big reason why I started this thread is because my stam sorc feels like a stam dk with less options but more mobility.

    Sorc is basically a blank canvas class when it comes to stam.

    You really have no offensive stam abilities in your kit, but you have fantastic passives and a bunch of utility in your class skills.

    The mobility thing is the biggest. Streak and Minor expedition are amazing tools for navigating a fight, especially when pair with speed potions.
    Lord and Savior of the Association of Serious S***posters.

    I play a character called "Gives Me Wood Elf" because I am a mature and sensible person.
    Stam Sorc main in Battlegrounds
  • NegativeVibes
    NegativeVibes
    ✭✭
    Sixty5 wrote: »
    A big reason why I started this thread is because my stam sorc feels like a stam dk with less options but more mobility.

    Sorc is basically a blank canvas class when it comes to stam.

    You really have no offensive stam abilities in your kit, but you have fantastic passives and a bunch of utility in your class skills.

    The mobility thing is the biggest. Streak and Minor expedition are amazing tools for navigating a fight, especially when pair with speed potions.

    Oh yea definitely. I love the class for what it is, but with a few more stam morphs it'd be perfect.
  • Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
    Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    ZOS doesnt want sorcs to have a "spammable, just like zos dont want temps to have in class access to the major buffs that temps lack, so asking for a stam spammable is not going to happen.

    Yet warden has it all lmao

    The warden does not have a meaningful group buff like the rest of the classes, IE the 5% spell damage from the temp, the 5% weapon damage from the dk, the 3% weapon crit from nb and the 3% spell crit from the sorc, yes they have minor toughness but you can get that warhorn and a five piece, so they lack that, you can't get the other classes buffs from anywheres else.

    Why are you not concerned about nbs not having major prophecy or savagery in class? It is the same concept, ZOS doesn't want every class to have exactly the same set of buffs and skills, the sorcerer not having a class spammable, regardless of Stam/mag, plays right into that concept.
    Edited by Lightspeedflashb14_ESO on October 31, 2017 4:05AM
  • NegativeVibes
    NegativeVibes
    ✭✭
    Sixty5 wrote: »
    A big reason why I started this thread is because my stam sorc feels like a stam dk with less options but more mobility.

    Sorc is basically a blank canvas class when it comes to stam.

    You really have no offensive stam abilities in your kit, but you have fantastic passives and a bunch of utility in your class skills.

    The mobility thing is the biggest. Streak and Minor expedition are amazing tools for navigating a fight, especially when pair with speed potions.

    Oh yea definitely. I love the class for what it is, but with a few more stam morphs it'd be perfect.
    ZOS doesnt want sorcs to have a "spammable, just like zos dont want temps to have in class access to the major buffs that temps lack, so asking for a stam spammable is not going to happen.

    Yet warden has it all lmao

    The warden does not have a meaningful group buff like the rest of the classes, IE the 5% spell damage from the temp, the 5% weapon damage from the dk, the 3% weapon crit from nb and the 3% spell crit from the sorc, yes they have minor toughness but you can get that warhorn and a five piece, so they lack that, you can't get the other classes buffs from anywheres else.

    Why are you not concerned about nbs not having major prophecy or savagery in class? It is the same concept, ZOS doesn't want every class to have exactly the same set of buffs and skills, the sorcerer not having a class spammable, regardless of Stam/mag, plays right into that concept.

    Are you coming from a PVE perspective? In PVP those minor group buffs mean next to nothing. Sure, they're there, but their not a make or break for your build or group. My main concern about warden was that it gets major expedition, major mending, major brutality, major endurance, minor beserk, minor evasion, major prophecy, minor protection, etc. I can't think of any buff that warden doesn't get while the other classes only get a handful. These are the buffs that mean something in PVP, or at least most of them do.

    I'd also like to add, buffs are a bit of a different monster than skills themselves. Skills offer different play styles within the class, while buffs are there to improve their effectiveness.

    I will say that buffs are and should be taken into consideration with classes. It's why DK has major mending and Sorc has major and minor expedition. It's what makes the classes different, which ties into playstyle. Im not saying every class should have every buff, but I feel there are some buffs that should be shared.
    Edited by NegativeVibes on October 31, 2017 4:29AM
  • Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
    Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Sixty5 wrote: »
    A big reason why I started this thread is because my stam sorc feels like a stam dk with less options but more mobility.

    Sorc is basically a blank canvas class when it comes to stam.

    You really have no offensive stam abilities in your kit, but you have fantastic passives and a bunch of utility in your class skills.

    The mobility thing is the biggest. Streak and Minor expedition are amazing tools for navigating a fight, especially when pair with speed potions.

    Oh yea definitely. I love the class for what it is, but with a few more stam morphs it'd be perfect.
    ZOS doesnt want sorcs to have a "spammable, just like zos dont want temps to have in class access to the major buffs that temps lack, so asking for a stam spammable is not going to happen.

    Yet warden has it all lmao

    The warden does not have a meaningful group buff like the rest of the classes, IE the 5% spell damage from the temp, the 5% weapon damage from the dk, the 3% weapon crit from nb and the 3% spell crit from the sorc, yes they have minor toughness but you can get that warhorn and a five piece, so they lack that, you can't get the other classes buffs from anywheres else.

    Why are you not concerned about nbs not having major prophecy or savagery in class? It is the same concept, ZOS doesn't want every class to have exactly the same set of buffs and skills, the sorcerer not having a class spammable, regardless of Stam/mag, plays right into that concept.

    Are you coming from a PVE perspective? In PVP
    those minor group buffs mean next to nothing. Sure, they're there, but their not a make or break for your build or group. My main concern about warden was that it gets major expedition, major mending, major brutality, major endurance, minor beserk, minor evasion, major prophecy, minor protection, etc. I can't think of any buff that warden doesn't get while the other classes only get a handful. These are the buffs that mean something in PVP, or at least most of them do.

    I'd also like to add, buffs are a bit of a different monster than skills themselves. Skills offer different play styles within the class, while buffs are there to improve their effectiveness.

    I will say that buffs are and should be taken into consideration with classes. It's why DK has major mending and Sorc has major and minor expedition. It's what makes the classes different, which ties into playstyle. Im not saying every class should have every buff, but I feel there are some buffs that should be shared.

    Of course I am, if you want to talk about skills as they relate to PvP, go here, https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/PvP-combat-skills, that is were you are supposed to go of you are talking strictly about PvP.


    Also why are coming at me like I came up with this concept, that is not all classes have everything, it is ZOS and their idea, I am simply explaining to you the concept, my own opinions on the matter are not in that reply.

    To the guy that says " no offensive stam abilities in your kit" as a Stam sorc, are you mental? You have hurricane, it is an amazing skill and out dpses caltrops on my stamsorc, so what are you on about.

    On the fact that wardens get so much buffs, you act like they can use them all at once, pro tip, wardens can't use minor berzerk and minor evasion at the same time because they are on different morphs for the same akill, the way you have them listed is missleading and I think you know that.


    Okay so you also day buffs are different then skills, okay, that why do you not care that Templars have no instant cast high damage ability like suprise attack or dks whip? You can't just zero in on one class and one thing that is missing, you have to ask what is the logic and how is that logic implamented, I have tried my best to explain the logic the game developer has specifically and repeatedly stated, you simply disagree with them and the way ZOS wants their game to be. Now you will be okay with that explaintion or you won't, it doesn't make it not the truth.
  • NegativeVibes
    NegativeVibes
    ✭✭
    Sixty5 wrote: »
    A big reason why I started this thread is because my stam sorc feels like a stam dk with less options but more mobility.

    Sorc is basically a blank canvas class when it comes to stam.

    You really have no offensive stam abilities in your kit, but you have fantastic passives and a bunch of utility in your class skills.

    The mobility thing is the biggest. Streak and Minor expedition are amazing tools for navigating a fight, especially when pair with speed potions.

    Oh yea definitely. I love the class for what it is, but with a few more stam morphs it'd be perfect.
    ZOS doesnt want sorcs to have a "spammable, just like zos dont want temps to have in class access to the major buffs that temps lack, so asking for a stam spammable is not going to happen.

    Yet warden has it all lmao

    The warden does not have a meaningful group buff like the rest of the classes, IE the 5% spell damage from the temp, the 5% weapon damage from the dk, the 3% weapon crit from nb and the 3% spell crit from the sorc, yes they have minor toughness but you can get that warhorn and a five piece, so they lack that, you can't get the other classes buffs from anywheres else.

    Why are you not concerned about nbs not having major prophecy or savagery in class? It is the same concept, ZOS doesn't want every class to have exactly the same set of buffs and skills, the sorcerer not having a class spammable, regardless of Stam/mag, plays right into that concept.

    Are you coming from a PVE perspective? In PVP
    those minor group buffs mean next to nothing. Sure, they're there, but their not a make or break for your build or group. My main concern about warden was that it gets major expedition, major mending, major brutality, major endurance, minor beserk, minor evasion, major prophecy, minor protection, etc. I can't think of any buff that warden doesn't get while the other classes only get a handful. These are the buffs that mean something in PVP, or at least most of them do.

    I'd also like to add, buffs are a bit of a different monster than skills themselves. Skills offer different play styles within the class, while buffs are there to improve their effectiveness.

    I will say that buffs are and should be taken into consideration with classes. It's why DK has major mending and Sorc has major and minor expedition. It's what makes the classes different, which ties into playstyle. Im not saying every class should have every buff, but I feel there are some buffs that should be shared.

    Of course I am, if you want to talk about skills as they relate to PvP, go here, https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/PvP-combat-skills, that is were you are supposed to go of you are talking strictly about PvP.


    Also why are coming at me like I came up with this concept, that is not all classes have everything, it is ZOS and their idea, I am simply explaining to you the concept, my own opinions on the matter are not in that reply.

    To the guy that says " no offensive stam abilities in your kit" as a Stam sorc, are you mental? You have hurricane, it is an amazing skill and out dpses caltrops on my stamsorc, so what are you on about.

    On the fact that wardens get so much buffs, you act like they can use them all at once, pro tip, wardens can't use minor berzerk and minor evasion at the same time because they are on different morphs for the same akill, the way you have them listed is missleading and I think you know that.


    Okay so you also day buffs are different then skills, okay, that why do you not care that Templars have no instant cast high damage ability like suprise attack or dks whip? You can't just zero in on one class and one thing that is missing, you have to ask what is the logic and how is that logic implamented, I have tried my best to explain the logic the game developer has specifically and repeatedly stated, you simply disagree with them and the way ZOS wants their game to be. Now you will be okay with that explaintion or you won't, it doesn't make it not the truth.

    Templars have jabs, which have a stamina and magicka morph, and are a channeled high damage ability. That is unique to their class and that is a good thing because it makes their class different. It is very clear that ZOS wants every class to be unique and have access to different abilities and buffs. What I originally posted were suggestions, and not "give me this or I riot." Maybe zenimax could not make crystal blast spammable, keep it a proc or with another mechanic, and make it stamina? Having it as a spammable would be cool in my eyes, as dual wield would be more viable. Maybe a whole different ability and not crystal blast? The point of this thread was suggestion for potential stamina morphs if sorc abilities, and I apologize if it seems to have strayed from that. At the end of the day, I just hope zeni can look at some of the sorc abilities, perhaps create a stamina morph or a morph that more benefits a stamina build, and make the class more unique with its tool kit pertaining to stam sorcs.

    It doesn't matter much that the warden can't use 100% of all of their available buffs at once. It's the fact that they are there and at the end of the day a part of the class. It's just zenimax going against their own logic when they say not every class should have access to all buffs through in class abilities and passives.
    Edited by NegativeVibes on October 31, 2017 5:42AM
  • Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
    Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Sixty5 wrote: »
    A big reason why I started this thread is because my stam sorc feels like a stam dk with less options but more mobility.

    Sorc is basically a blank canvas class when it comes to stam.

    You really have no offensive stam abilities in your kit, but you have fantastic passives and a bunch of utility in your class skills.

    The mobility thing is the biggest. Streak and Minor expedition are amazing tools for navigating a fight, especially when pair with speed potions.

    Oh yea definitely. I love the class for what it is, but with a few more stam morphs it'd be perfect.
    ZOS doesnt want sorcs to have a "spammable, just like zos dont want temps to have in class access to the major buffs that temps lack, so asking for a stam spammable is not going to happen.

    Yet warden has it all lmao

    The warden does not have a meaningful group buff like the rest of the classes, IE the 5% spell damage from the temp, the 5% weapon damage from the dk, the 3% weapon crit from nb and the 3% spell crit from the sorc, yes they have minor toughness but you can get that warhorn and a five piece, so they lack that, you can't get the other classes buffs from anywheres else.

    Why are you not concerned about nbs not having major prophecy or savagery in class? It is the same concept, ZOS doesn't want every class to have exactly the same set of buffs and skills, the sorcerer not having a class spammable, regardless of Stam/mag, plays right into that concept.

    Are you coming from a PVE perspective? In PVP
    those minor group buffs mean next to nothing. Sure, they're there, but their not a make or break for your build or group. My main concern about warden was that it gets major expedition, major mending, major brutality, major endurance, minor beserk, minor evasion, major prophecy, minor protection, etc. I can't think of any buff that warden doesn't get while the other classes only get a handful. These are the buffs that mean something in PVP, or at least most of them do.

    I'd also like to add, buffs are a bit of a different monster than skills themselves. Skills offer different play styles within the class, while buffs are there to improve their effectiveness.

    I will say that buffs are and should be taken into consideration with classes. It's why DK has major mending and Sorc has major and minor expedition. It's what makes the classes different, which ties into playstyle. Im not saying every class should have every buff, but I feel there are some buffs that should be shared.

    Of course I am, if you want to talk about skills as they relate to PvP, go here, https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/PvP-combat-skills, that is were you are supposed to go of you are talking strictly about PvP.


    Also why are coming at me like I came up with this concept, that is not all classes have everything, it is ZOS and their idea, I am simply explaining to you the concept, my own opinions on the matter are not in that reply.

    To the guy that says " no offensive stam abilities in your kit" as a Stam sorc, are you mental? You have hurricane, it is an amazing skill and out dpses caltrops on my stamsorc, so what are you on about.

    On the fact that wardens get so much buffs, you act like they can use them all at once, pro tip, wardens can't use minor berzerk and minor evasion at the same time because they are on different morphs for the same akill, the way you have them listed is missleading and I think you know that.


    Okay so you also day buffs are different then skills, okay, that why do you not care that Templars have no instant cast high damage ability like suprise attack or dks whip? You can't just zero in on one class and one thing that is missing, you have to ask what is the logic and how is that logic implamented, I have tried my best to explain the logic the game developer has specifically and repeatedly stated, you simply disagree with them and the way ZOS wants their game to be. Now you will be okay with that explaintion or you won't, it doesn't make it not the truth.

    Templars have jabs, which have a stamina and magicka morph, and are a channeled high damage ability. That is unique to their class and that is a good thing because it makes their class different. It is very clear that ZOS wants every class to be unique and have access to different abilities and buffs. What I originally posted were suggestions, and not "give me this or I riot." Maybe zenimax could not make crystal blast spammable, keep it a proc or with another mechanic, and make it stamina? Having it as a spammable would be cool in my eyes, as dual wield would be more viable. Maybe a whole different ability and not crystal blast? The point of this thread was suggestion for potential stamina morphs if sorc abilities, and I apologize if it seems to have strayed from that. At the end of the day, I just hope zeni can look at some of the sorc abilities, perhaps create a stamina morph or a morph that more benefits a stamina build, and make the class more unique with its tool kit pertaining to stam sorcs.

    It doesn't matter much that the warden can't use 100% of all of their available buffs at once. It's the fact that they are there and at the end of the day a part of the class. It's just zenimax going against their own logic when they say not every class should have access to all buffs through in class abilities and passives.

    But it does and if to it didn't, you wouldn't list it like you could.

    All buffs and skill variations are available to every class, whether in class or out of the class, except the ones I mentioned already.


    Lol at the you reciting the temp skill like I don't already know about that, there is a reason I specifically stated and instacast high damage ability, then you just ignore tat with stating to me that channeled Templar ability that does low damage per single hit compared to suprize attack or dks whip., I asked what makes you care so much about sorcs getting something but temps do not have something. I understand why they don't. I accept the differences between the classes. You don't and we can't seem to brigde this gap.
  • Chilly-McFreeze
    Chilly-McFreeze
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Is there a reason for this derailing? While you can't just look at anything on it's ow, this isn't about Temps or DKs, this is a thread to gather some nice ideas for stam sorcs. And your passive aggressive behaviour is out of place. Nobody denies that classes shouldn't have access to everything. Also nobody denies that stam sorcs have some nice tools in hurricane, streak and surge. But that doesn't change that stam sorcs feels very bland, like a walking weapon skill line. Change =/= buff. Someone already mentioned it, sS need some flavour.

    And they are far from "having it all". No class spam, burst, execute, snare, debuffs, etc. Do they need all of that? No, of course not. But it seems like OP doesn't even want to achieve that. More that he wants to gather some nice ideas to make this class a bit more fun.
    And to be completely honest, Hurricane + Surge is quite effective, streak is nice for the two times you can cast it, but that's about it. The fun ends here. Completely relying on weapon skill lines makes a class a bit... dull? Bland? Stale?

    But on to the more entertaining things.

    I really like the idea of the air atronach. Someone asked why someone should pick it over DB. That's really an issue for most ultimates for stam players. Depending on how it's implemented it could further increase the AoE DoT/ cleave potential, it could be used to LoS to take a breather and D/D (if anyone still uses that clunky thing) and to utilize Daedric Protection.

    Actually I would take that a step further. Unstable Clannfear scales like ***. It scales on max magicka, deals physical damage and its heal is based on max health. Great. Does it still not take CP into account? Give it a bit of direction and make this the stam summon. All they need to change is to make it scale with max stam. For the sake of balance I would let the heal weak or replace it with something else.



    There was an "How should the sorc class look like" thread at the beginnig of this month, so I just reuse this here:
    Give stam more class damage skills.
    Give magicka a defense option outside of shieldstacking.
    Give options to a little more debuffs.
    If nothing of the above, change passives to make them more useful for both amplitudes.

    Defense:
    When (!) shieldstacking is gone and heavy armor is back in line, I would like to see this class as ultra mobile. Beside tone down on streak fatigue they should have access to both Expedition buffs on mag/stam and snare removal + "denial area" skills (lightning flood, tomb, encase) to make up for difficult healing.
    Make it like more selfhealing (higher crit chance, more surge heals) with lesser need of mobility in pve and weaker self healing (due to lower crit chance/ fewer surge heals) with bigger emphasis on mobility in pvp.
    Also, when shieldstacking is gone they need to tweak conjured ward.

    Utility:
    Rework bound armor. Let it grant it current bonus for being slotted but add an active part, snare removal + the other expedition buff (compared to the respective lightning Form morph - minor for boundless, major for hurricane, with respective differences in duration). This wouldn't eliminate the need for double slotting it completely but wouldn't make it useless for just having it on one bar.
    Make lightning flood attractive with adding a debuff to it or changing it into a lingering area debuff without dmg. Like minor breach/ fracture and something else, don't know what wouldn't be overkill but strong enough to compete with LL. Maybe instead of another debuff, make it stam/physical dmg or lower it's mag cost to actually make it affordable for both sides. To fit the escape theme I mentioned above, maybe even give it a minor snare (but I think there are too many snares in this game anyway).
    Daedric Tomb as second area denial should be somewhat affordable for stam toons too. Lower costs and damage? It's something like an encase -trap but with too high costs to use it for reatreating on stam sorcs.

    Damage:
    Throw stam sorcs a bone. Grant them either a execute, burst or spam. Change crystal blast for it. E.g. uninterruptable ranged burst with cast time (like dizzy) or one Fury morph as a spam, to open up more variability in weapon choices. ATM being completely reliant on your weapon choices reduces the fun of this class for me.
    Make the clannfear morph scale with stam. It already deals physical dmg. Change one atro morph to physical dmg.
    All this opens up the use of rebate, expert summoner and blood magic to stam sorcs.


    Overperformance:
    On the other hand, may reduce time of the wrath proc slightly without killing the delayed playstyle.
    Change Implosion. Currently it feels unfair on recieving end and unreliable for the user. Change it to something reliable and predictable. In the likes of undeath passive (lower health = bigger boon) with resource regen, surge healing strength or (my favourite) a slight boost to movement speed. Or if it has to stay execute like, some very minor dmg increase of class skills when oneself or the enemy is at low health (given that they give stam something to work with).
    Also, like mentioned above, make a move on shieldstacking. It's no fun on either end.
  • Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
    Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    @Chilly-McFreeze

    Reason for the derailing is I am trying to inject some information that is important, ie zos has no intention of doing his first "suggestion", ie Crystal blast into a spammable. It is just not part of their vision for the game for sorcs to have an in class spammable, regardless of Stam or mag. The best possible outcome would blast be a Stam version of frags with a percentage based proc change for instant cast. But that is just a pipe dream.


    Op also states that sorcs have no Stam based dps, hurricane is this, so he is just wrong, even after praising hurricane.


    Stamblades have no skill that cost mag in pve dps.


    you are acting like sorcs are special. They aren't, all Stam classes play pretty much the same, when played optimally, that is the nature of the game.


    Lasty, I have no idea what this thread is doing in this area, if it is going to focus on PvP it ought to be in the PvP combat and skills area here https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/PvP-combat-skills, and I wouldn't be posting because I have little interest in it.
    Edited by Lightspeedflashb14_ESO on October 31, 2017 9:50AM
  • Azurya
    Azurya
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    the only problem is that stamina sucks, cauze ZOS has no love for it
    look at bows or 2handed/ DW nothing there that can be considered outstanding

    so the race for dps takes place wihout staminabulds, cauze ZOS keep them FARAWAY from being competitive.
    Fear not, for I am watchful. You have been chosen.
    Azura, the Daedric Prince of Moonshadow, Mother of the Rose, and Queen of the Night Sky


    Hail to Sithis, blood's drop on blade's edge.
    Before you, nothing. Behind you, the Void.
    Catalyst, agitator, many-fanged maw.
    Whisper your need to the Scales.
    — Inscription found on an Argonian blade
  • Urza1234
    Urza1234
    ✭✭✭✭
    @Chilly-McFreeze

    Reason for the derailing is I am trying to inject some information that is important, ie zos has no intention of doing his first "suggestion", ie Crystal blast into a spammable. It is just not part of their vision for the game for sorcs to have an in class spammable, regardless of Stam or mag. The best possible outcome would blast be a Stam version of frags with a percentage based proc change for instant cast. But that is just a pipe dream.


    Op also states that sorcs have no Stam based dps, hurricane is this, so he is just wrong, even after praising hurricane.


    Stamblades have no skill that cost mag in pve dps.


    you are acting like sorcs are special. They aren't, all Stam classes play pretty much the same, when played optimally, that is the nature of the game.


    Lasty, I have no idea what this thread is doing in this area, if it is going to focus on PvP it ought to be in the PvP combat and skills area here https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/PvP-combat-skills, and I wouldn't be posting because I have little interest in it.

    Such nihilism.

    Did you have an idea once that wasnt included in the game? Where on this anatomically correct doll did the ZOS dev ignore you?

    You know whats definitively even less useful than giving ZOS suggestions and ideas? Attacking the people who give ZOS suggestions and ideas.

    I'm glad that you understand and like the status quo, why does that mean that you have to come here and rain on the OP's parade?

    Honestly this whole thing is just getting so off-topic. To maintain the on-topicness of my post I will contribute that I agree that even a stam-frags probably shouldnt be spammable.
    Edited by Urza1234 on October 31, 2017 10:06AM
  • Morgul667
    Morgul667
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Azurya wrote: »
    the only problem is that stamina sucks, cauze ZOS has no love for it
    look at bows or 2handed/ DW nothing there that can be considered outstanding

    so the race for dps takes place wihout staminabulds, cauze ZOS keep them FARAWAY from being competitive.

    Stamina are in a great place right now.

    You ask me it is as balance as it ever been.

    Stamina gets higher DPS but takes more risk. Magicka provide utility, shields, sometimes distance.
  • ak_pvp
    ak_pvp
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Make base and rune prison morph stam, some sort of cheaper air based CC with a small dot that snares after. Magsorc already has encase+streak for CC. The defensive rune would instead CC be a disorient that CCs 2 people on a direct melee hit. (Allows to get range.)
    Edited by ak_pvp on October 31, 2017 10:43AM
    MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
    Best houseknight EU.
  • NegativeVibes
    NegativeVibes
    ✭✭
    ak_pvp wrote: »
    Make base and rune prison morph stam, some sort of cheaper air based CC with a small dot that snares after. Magsorc already has encase+streak for CC. The defensive rune would instead CC be a disorient that CCs 2 people on a direct melee hit. (Allows to get range.)

    I like that suggestion, atm if you go the dual wield route, your options for stuns are left as magicka skills like streak and current rune prison, which is a strain on your magicka pool for dark deal. You've got dawnbreaker as well but that's a 100+ cost ultimate lol
  • NegativeVibes
    NegativeVibes
    ✭✭
    Sixty5 wrote: »
    A big reason why I started this thread is because my stam sorc feels like a stam dk with less options but more mobility.

    Sorc is basically a blank canvas class when it comes to stam.

    You really have no offensive stam abilities in your kit, but you have fantastic passives and a bunch of utility in your class skills.

    The mobility thing is the biggest. Streak and Minor expedition are amazing tools for navigating a fight, especially when pair with speed potions.

    Oh yea definitely. I love the class for what it is, but with a few more stam morphs it'd be perfect.
    ZOS doesnt want sorcs to have a "spammable, just like zos dont want temps to have in class access to the major buffs that temps lack, so asking for a stam spammable is not going to happen.

    Yet warden has it all lmao

    The warden does not have a meaningful group buff like the rest of the classes, IE the 5% spell damage from the temp, the 5% weapon damage from the dk, the 3% weapon crit from nb and the 3% spell crit from the sorc, yes they have minor toughness but you can get that warhorn and a five piece, so they lack that, you can't get the other classes buffs from anywheres else.

    Why are you not concerned about nbs not having major prophecy or savagery in class? It is the same concept, ZOS doesn't want every class to have exactly the same set of buffs and skills, the sorcerer not having a class spammable, regardless of Stam/mag, plays right into that concept.

    Are you coming from a PVE perspective? In PVP
    those minor group buffs mean next to nothing. Sure, they're there, but their not a make or break for your build or group. My main concern about warden was that it gets major expedition, major mending, major brutality, major endurance, minor beserk, minor evasion, major prophecy, minor protection, etc. I can't think of any buff that warden doesn't get while the other classes only get a handful. These are the buffs that mean something in PVP, or at least most of them do.

    I'd also like to add, buffs are a bit of a different monster than skills themselves. Skills offer different play styles within the class, while buffs are there to improve their effectiveness.

    I will say that buffs are and should be taken into consideration with classes. It's why DK has major mending and Sorc has major and minor expedition. It's what makes the classes different, which ties into playstyle. Im not saying every class should have every buff, but I feel there are some buffs that should be shared.

    Of course I am, if you want to talk about skills as they relate to PvP, go here, https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/PvP-combat-skills, that is were you are supposed to go of you are talking strictly about PvP.


    Also why are coming at me like I came up with this concept, that is not all classes have everything, it is ZOS and their idea, I am simply explaining to you the concept, my own opinions on the matter are not in that reply.

    To the guy that says " no offensive stam abilities in your kit" as a Stam sorc, are you mental? You have hurricane, it is an amazing skill and out dpses caltrops on my stamsorc, so what are you on about.

    On the fact that wardens get so much buffs, you act like they can use them all at once, pro tip, wardens can't use minor berzerk and minor evasion at the same time because they are on different morphs for the same akill, the way you have them listed is missleading and I think you know that.


    Okay so you also day buffs are different then skills, okay, that why do you not care that Templars have no instant cast high damage ability like suprise attack or dks whip? You can't just zero in on one class and one thing that is missing, you have to ask what is the logic and how is that logic implamented, I have tried my best to explain the logic the game developer has specifically and repeatedly stated, you simply disagree with them and the way ZOS wants their game to be. Now you will be okay with that explaintion or you won't, it doesn't make it not the truth.

    Templars have jabs, which have a stamina and magicka morph, and are a channeled high damage ability. That is unique to their class and that is a good thing because it makes their class different. It is very clear that ZOS wants every class to be unique and have access to different abilities and buffs. What I originally posted were suggestions, and not "give me this or I riot." Maybe zenimax could not make crystal blast spammable, keep it a proc or with another mechanic, and make it stamina? Having it as a spammable would be cool in my eyes, as dual wield would be more viable. Maybe a whole different ability and not crystal blast? The point of this thread was suggestion for potential stamina morphs if sorc abilities, and I apologize if it seems to have strayed from that. At the end of the day, I just hope zeni can look at some of the sorc abilities, perhaps create a stamina morph or a morph that more benefits a stamina build, and make the class more unique with its tool kit pertaining to stam sorcs.

    It doesn't matter much that the warden can't use 100% of all of their available buffs at once. It's the fact that they are there and at the end of the day a part of the class. It's just zenimax going against their own logic when they say not every class should have access to all buffs through in class abilities and passives.

    But it does and if to it didn't, you wouldn't list it like you could.

    All buffs and skill variations are available to every class, whether in class or out of the class, except the ones I mentioned already.


    Lol at the you reciting the temp skill like I don't already know about that, there is a reason I specifically stated and instacast high damage ability, then you just ignore tat with stating to me that channeled Templar ability that does low damage per single hit compared to suprize attack or dks whip., I asked what makes you care so much about sorcs getting something but temps do not have something. I understand why they don't. I accept the differences between the classes. You don't and we can't seem to brigde this gap.

    On the templar ability, my point was that they have an option for a dps ability without running a specific weapon. That was my point.
    And yes I understand the differences between the classes. They are there for a reason. I just want more option to stam sorc as they only have weapon skill lines and hurricane for damage in PVE and PVP.
    Edited by NegativeVibes on October 31, 2017 2:00PM
  • Apherius
    Apherius
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    I'm ok with everything BUT only if the " storm's fury morph " would remplace the " Mage's wrath " morph and not the second which is extremely useful and unique.
    Edited by Apherius on October 31, 2017 1:58PM
  • AverageJo3Gam3r
    AverageJo3Gam3r
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Stam sorcs have some of the best passives in the game and one of the best all round skills in the game (hurricane), the best self healing because it doesn't require any user input, the best stamina mobility outside of shade, and solid resource management. Not to mention the cheapest ults and one of the two best group support ultimates on a stamina class.

    stam sorcs are in a good spot imo.
  • NegativeVibes
    NegativeVibes
    ✭✭
    Stam sorcs have some of the best passives in the game and one of the best all round skills in the game (hurricane), the best self healing because it doesn't require any user input, the best stamina mobility outside of shade, and solid resource management. Not to mention the cheapest ults and one of the two best group support ultimates on a stamina class.

    stam sorcs are in a good spot imo.

    I think stam sorcs are in a good spot too. While they have the same great utility as their counterpart, magicka sorc, I think most would agree stam sorc is lacking flavor and uniqueness. As someone else had said above, it feels like a walking weapon skill line plus a teleport.
  • NegativeVibes
    NegativeVibes
    ✭✭
    I think because of the changes to sustain, the streak nerf, funny enough, should be nerfed. Currently, its a 50% increase in cost, and now I think it would be more appropriate for it to either have less of a penalty for streaking often, or remove the increase when you use streak offensively, ie streaking through someone to do damage/stun (as said in a different thread, don't remember the name). After all, sorcerer is the mobility class. I think even mag sorc players would agree here lol.

    I've also got a new idea for an execute for stamina.
    Storm's Fury (same name of morph stated earlier) similar in appearance to the lightning that appears on your hands during overload.
    instant cast, melee range and instead is thrown like an uppercut or punch. It does physical damage and functions basically the same as the regular morph mages fury. Perhaps puts an armor debuff on the target.

    A new idea for the stamina daedric mines morph:
    Costs stamina, instead of placing the mines on the ground it instead is targeted on yourself and conjures mines that float around you for 9 seconds. Every 3 seconds a mine explodes for physical damage to whatever targets are withing 4 (?) meters of your character.

    New morphs for the daedric summoning pets:
    Banekin (unstable familiar morph)
    Costs stamina to summon, deals phsyical damage, armor debuffs targets (if the before mentioned morph doesnt have it)

    Lurker (same daedric creature found in the Dragonborn DLC for Skyrim)
    Costs stamina to summon, deals physical damage, debuffs targets with minor maim (if not too op).

    Make the rebate passive grant stamina when pet is dies.
    Perhaps add stamina regen passive to capacitor (possibly less than the magicka regen granted already)

    These changes/additions in turn with certain sets could really make stamina pet sorcerers viable, which I feel could be a really fun playstyle.
    Edited by NegativeVibes on November 2, 2017 3:50AM
Sign In or Register to comment.