Maintenance for the week of May 20:
• [COMPLETE] PlayStation®4: NA megaserver for maintenance – May 24, 1:00PM EDT (17:00 UTC) – 3:00PM EDT (19:00 UTC)

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/475853/
Maintenance for the week of May 27:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – May 27
• PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – May 28, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) – 8:00AM EDT (12:00 UTC)

Healer Expectations in Dungeons

  • Oreyn_Bearclaw
    Oreyn_Bearclaw
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    Heals>Group Buffs>your own DPS.

    Of course, the most important thing you can do is keep your group's health bars above Zero. That is your primary role afterall. A healer is perhaps the role that needs to adapt to their group more than any other. In 4 man content, there is no meta (other than maybe wearing Spell Power Cure as one of your 5-piece sets). If you are healing two stamina DPS, you are going to run different gear and skills than if you are healing 2 magic DPS. If you are healing classes with a lot of built in self healing (magic NBs, Templars, etc.) then maybe you can focus a bit more on your own damage. The one caveat is that as a general rule, focusing on group buffs is more of an increase to group DPS than focusing on your own personal DPS.
    Alliance/Platform: Ebonheart Pact - PC/NA - CP 1,100ish

    My Toons:
    DKs: Oreyn ßearclaw - Dunmer, Bear-m'Athra - Redguard, Bearzilla - Argonian
    Sorcs: Beary Jane - AR37- Breton, Bearricane - Orc, Molag Bear - Altmer (AD)
    NBs: Bearclaw Oreyn - Breton, Bearblade - Bosmer, ßearblade - Dunmer (DC)
    Temps: Gandalf Likes To Party - Altmer, Bearplar - Redguard, Bearamedic - Argonian
    Wardens: Warden Bearclaw - Altmer, Bear Jordan - Redguard, Bear's Hippie Girlfriend - Bosmer
    Necros: Bearomancer - Dunmer, ßearßones - Orc

    vCR+3, vAS+2, vHOFHM, vMOLHM, vSOHM, vHRCHM, vAAHM, vBRP, vDSA, Flawless Conqueror, Dro-m'Athra Destroyer
  • DoctorESO
    DoctorESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    .
    Edited by DoctorESO on September 23, 2018 1:44AM
  • QuebraRegra
    QuebraRegra
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    HEAL>BUFF>RESOURCES>DPS

    all of the above can be done on any class properly setup to be a healer.

    Depending on PUGS (say the DPS can't even kill a single mob), I might switchup that above order (increasing DPS over resources, is they're just nappin on the job anyway).
  • Silver_Strider
    Silver_Strider
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    I expect nothing but the minimum from anyone I don't know.

    If you queue up as a healer, I expect you to heal and everything else you do is a bonus as far as I'm concerned. Had just as many fake Healers as fake Tanks and while it's usually not a problem, it's annoying trying to get the random daily done when you end up soloing 90% of the dungeon because the rest of the group is BEYOND incompetent.

    At the point it becomes clear I'm soloing, I remove all group buffs I'm using, throw on my Tanky PvP set up, and just charge thru while the rest of the team is dead because at that point, they've already failed me and I'd rather keep my Soul Gems to recharge my weapons after the 5-10 minute long boss fights I'm now forced to endure, at least my weapons are reliable.

    The only times I expect slightly more, is in Vet Trials, where I expect SPC and shards/orbs to be available but that's pretty much it.
    Edited by Silver_Strider on January 29, 2018 10:57PM
    Argonian forever
  • QuebraRegra
    QuebraRegra
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Marginis wrote: »
    In my experience, the DPS just have to stay alive and deal as much damage as possible.

    Tanks MUST stay alive, taunt everything, and help with buffs/debuffs.

    Healers basically just keep everyone alive so they can fulfill that part of their role, and then just do anything else they can. So if a DPS goes down, the healer should be the one to revive them, so long as the tank isn't terrible. If the tank goes down, you may need to off-tank, being able to stay alive better than a DPS. If the tank isn't doing all the buffs, help buff. If the tank and DPS are good as is, join in doing dps.

    This is just my experience of course. Even as an inexperienced tank I can keep a few team buffs up constantly by myself. However, I don't usually run Warhorn myself, so that's one thing a healer could help with (with me tanking, anyway).

    IMHO, you aint a proper healer if you don't horn for yer group. (best to be set up for fast ultimate regen.. ie. SOUL HARVEST, etc.)
  • FrancisCrawford
    FrancisCrawford
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    IMHO, you aint a proper healer if you don't horn for yer group. (best to be set up for fast ultimate regen.. ie. SOUL HARVEST, etc.)

    I'm not convinced that Warhorn helps much in most dungeon PUG groups.
    DoctorESO wrote: »
    Of course, the most important thing you can do is keep your group's health bars above Zero..

    I'd go so far as to say healers need to keep the group's health bars well above zero. When DPS health drops too low, they feel the need to interrupt their rotation and shield up.

    If you're running SPC you try to keep health at 100% anyway. More precisely, you try to return it there quickly.
  • FrancisCrawford
    FrancisCrawford
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Marginis wrote: »
    In my experience, the DPS just have to stay alive and deal as much damage as possible.

    Tanks MUST stay alive, taunt everything, and help with buffs/debuffs.

    Healers basically just keep everyone alive so they can fulfill that part of their role, and then just do anything else they can. So if a DPS goes down, the healer should be the one to revive them, so long as the tank isn't terrible. If the tank goes down, you may need to off-tank, being able to stay alive better than a DPS. If the tank isn't doing all the buffs, help buff. If the tank and DPS are good as is, join in doing dps.

    This is just my experience of course. Even as an inexperienced tank I can keep a few team buffs up constantly by myself. However, I don't usually run Warhorn myself, so that's one thing a healer could help with (with me tanking, anyway).

    I usually leave rezzing to the DPS.

    That said, it's not a big issue. Not much rezzing is needed in groups I heal. :)
  • QuebraRegra
    QuebraRegra
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    IMHO, you aint a proper healer if you don't horn for yer group. (best to be set up for fast ultimate regen.. ie. SOUL HARVEST, etc.)

    I'm not convinced that Warhorn helps much in most dungeon PUG groups.
    DoctorESO wrote: »
    Of course, the most important thing you can do is keep your group's health bars above Zero..

    I'd go so far as to say healers need to keep the group's health bars well above zero. When DPS health drops too low, they feel the need to interrupt their rotation and shield up.

    If you're running SPC you try to keep health at 100% anyway. More precisely, you try to return it there quickly.

    R U kidding me? some of these PUGs have NO health at all, and WARHORN is the ONLY thing that keeps them alive in a boss fight.,, that and gives their pitiful DPS a boost. ;)
  • QuebraRegra
    QuebraRegra
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Marginis wrote: »
    In my experience, the DPS just have to stay alive and deal as much damage as possible.

    Tanks MUST stay alive, taunt everything, and help with buffs/debuffs.

    Healers basically just keep everyone alive so they can fulfill that part of their role, and then just do anything else they can. So if a DPS goes down, the healer should be the one to revive them, so long as the tank isn't terrible. If the tank goes down, you may need to off-tank, being able to stay alive better than a DPS. If the tank isn't doing all the buffs, help buff. If the tank and DPS are good as is, join in doing dps.

    This is just my experience of course. Even as an inexperienced tank I can keep a few team buffs up constantly by myself. However, I don't usually run Warhorn myself, so that's one thing a healer could help with (with me tanking, anyway).

    I usually leave rezzing to the DPS.

    That said, it's not a big issue. Not much rezzing is needed in groups I heal. :)

    I can heal with the best, but there are some pretty stupid PUGs out there (the stories I could tell..).... YOU CAN'T HEAL STUPID!

    Agreed, DPS should rez, while the healer covers them and the tank.
  • QuebraRegra
    QuebraRegra
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    chris211 wrote: »
    healing springs is a must

    I was surprised this was not mentioned more... true.
  • Tasear
    Tasear
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Necro... but surprised it's really not one I responded on.

    I am going to give an interesting take on this. As such, I think healers job is to keep everyone alive. Not much different from others. But this more then it seems.

    You must know how to keep teammates working together. Like low dps and high dps can both succeed. How do fights without and intreput skill, or chains, or crowd control. I hope you are getting it, but It's about adapting to situation.

    On that same thought, we should predict the future. Will they make out in time? Do they have enough resources? Will they survive this hit? Do they need a buff more then x? Just watching their behaviors will make you excellent healer.

    Now the same time if something is not working we together. You have make hard decisions to keep the team alive. Do we quit and maybe try agree later? Do request othe
    Somebody to leave? Do I leave? Is someone toxic or being a jerk then inntial the vote kick them.

    That's what it means to be a healer. You take care of the team.
    Edited by Tasear on January 31, 2018 10:33AM
    Famous Healer, Loving Guild Master, Support Theory Crater
    Former Class Representative, & Former Community Ambassador
    Grand Prize Winner to Deardic Dress up Contest
    ESO Community Discord: https://discord.gg/9UafDmq
    Guides
    https://tamrielfoundry.com/articles/how-to-play-sorcerer-healer/

    Affiliations: BBC Gaming Guild, Akvari Exchange, Imperial Trade Union, Moonlight Travelers, Raiding Strategy Academy
    Trial History: Magic Society Core Healer, Rolling Cliff Hangers Core Healer, Kongpanions Core Healer, Moonlight Core Healer
  • xiZeroPointix
    xiZeroPointix
    ✭✭✭
    Illurian wrote: »
    So your guild isn't wrong in that your main priority as a healer is to keep your group alive. However, they are wrong in that being the only thing you do.

    With healing as a baseline, in a group with decent dps and non-braindead players, this is my "flowchart" as a Templar healer (vet 4 man content):
    Buffs/debuffs -> resource support -> dps.

    Buffs/debuffs: combat prayer/regeneration should be constantly applied onto your group. Cleansing ritual/ritual of retribution should constantly be up. Warhorn should be up as much as possible. Elemental drain, lightning blockade, purifying light/power of the light should always be applied on bosses/mobs.

    Resource support: Constantly throw out orbs/shards for your tank/dps to help with resource sustain. Keep in mind that each activation has a 20 second cool down, so adjust accordingly.

    Dps: if all your buffs/debuffs are applied and your group members are topped off, you have the time to dps in the middle. I also usually skip the flowchart entirely and go straight to dps with radiant destruction when the boss is under 30% hp.

    Heals: if your buffs/debuffs are being applied correctly, your party should be topped off if they aren't standing in stupid. Heals have top priority if an ally is low; burst them up with breath of life or ward ally.


    It also really comes down to the calibre of the group you are playing with. If your dps is decent, the group will benefit more from buffs and resource support. If your dps hits like a wet noodle, it might be faster to slot more dps skills and go more offensive.

    This
  • Marginis
    Marginis
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Marginis wrote: »
    In my experience, the DPS just have to stay alive and deal as much damage as possible.

    Tanks MUST stay alive, taunt everything, and help with buffs/debuffs.

    Healers basically just keep everyone alive so they can fulfill that part of their role, and then just do anything else they can. So if a DPS goes down, the healer should be the one to revive them, so long as the tank isn't terrible. If the tank goes down, you may need to off-tank, being able to stay alive better than a DPS. If the tank isn't doing all the buffs, help buff. If the tank and DPS are good as is, join in doing dps.

    This is just my experience of course. Even as an inexperienced tank I can keep a few team buffs up constantly by myself. However, I don't usually run Warhorn myself, so that's one thing a healer could help with (with me tanking, anyway).

    IMHO, you aint a proper healer if you don't horn for yer group. (best to be set up for fast ultimate regen.. ie. SOUL HARVEST, etc.)

    In content I've run I typically hear that Warhorn is the tank's job, but it's generally just a good idea to have SOMEONE with it. And it's probably best to have it be the healer or tank. That said, being the tank I am, it's better for me to just run Barrier, and spam it with all my amazing ult regen.
    @Marginis on PC, Senpai Fluffy on Xbox, Founder of Magicka. Also known as Kha'jiri, The Night Mother, Ma'iq, Jane Shepard, Damia, Kintyra, Zoor Do Kest, You, and a few others.
  • exeeter702
    exeeter702
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    IMHO, you aint a proper healer if you don't horn for yer group. (best to be set up for fast ultimate regen.. ie. SOUL HARVEST, etc.)

    I'm not convinced that Warhorn helps much in most dungeon PUG groups.
    DoctorESO wrote: »
    Of course, the most important thing you can do is keep your group's health bars above Zero..

    I'd go so far as to say healers need to keep the group's health bars well above zero. When DPS health drops too low, they feel the need to interrupt their rotation and shield up.

    If you're running SPC you try to keep health at 100% anyway. More precisely, you try to return it there quickly.

    R U kidding me? some of these PUGs have NO health at all, and WARHORN is the ONLY thing that keeps them alive in a boss fight.,, that and gives their pitiful DPS a boost. ;)

    Warhorn is trash if your dps dont know a rotation beyond light attack arrow spamming and dropping blood alter on CD.
  • exeeter702
    exeeter702
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    chris211 wrote: »
    healing springs is a must

    I was surprised this was not mentioned more... true.

    Its not mentioned because its absolutely not true. Id argue its a complete waste of a slot when healing dungeons. Nb and warden healers absolutely do not require it.
  • DeadlyRecluse
    DeadlyRecluse
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    My expectations in normal dungeons are pretty low. If the healer stays alive, we're cool.

    In vet dungeons, I expect to not have to self-heal very often, if ever, and I appreciate (but don't necessarily demand) some group utility (ele drain, shards/orbs).

    In trials, should know the role and keep all relevant buffs up while supporting group and pulling 60k DPS. Just kidding, I don't do trials.
    Thrice Empress, Forever Scrub
  • Mazbt
    Mazbt
    ✭✭✭✭
    depends on what you groups you run with. If it's a high dps group the healer is better off buffing them/helping with resources instead of contributing their meager dps. If it's a weak group and things need to die...then contribute to dps. So strong group- buff them, throw out heals when needed, weak group- help kill things, heal.
    Edited by Mazbt on January 30, 2018 7:17PM
    Mazari the Resurrected (AD)- PVP stamplar main, rank 43
    Maz the Druid - PVP group stam warden, tribune
    - many others
    ____________
    Fantasia
  • Illurian
    Illurian
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Marginis wrote: »
    Marginis wrote: »
    In my experience, the DPS just have to stay alive and deal as much damage as possible.

    Tanks MUST stay alive, taunt everything, and help with buffs/debuffs.

    Healers basically just keep everyone alive so they can fulfill that part of their role, and then just do anything else they can. So if a DPS goes down, the healer should be the one to revive them, so long as the tank isn't terrible. If the tank goes down, you may need to off-tank, being able to stay alive better than a DPS. If the tank isn't doing all the buffs, help buff. If the tank and DPS are good as is, join in doing dps.

    This is just my experience of course. Even as an inexperienced tank I can keep a few team buffs up constantly by myself. However, I don't usually run Warhorn myself, so that's one thing a healer could help with (with me tanking, anyway).

    IMHO, you aint a proper healer if you don't horn for yer group. (best to be set up for fast ultimate regen.. ie. SOUL HARVEST, etc.)

    In content I've run I typically hear that Warhorn is the tank's job, but it's generally just a good idea to have SOMEONE with it. And it's probably best to have it be the healer or tank. That said, being the tank I am, it's better for me to just run Barrier, and spam it with all my amazing ult regen.

    Generally both the tank and healer run (aggressive) Warhorn and alternate between themselves per fight. Communication is vital though, as Warhorn doesn't stack with itself. So if both the tank and healer use Warhorn on the same fight, it'd be a complete waste of 1 ultimate.

    Barrier is unnecessary for 99% of 4 man content, and even that 1% is very situational and isn't "essential". The only place I've ever seen anyone slot barrier is with a low dps group on the last boss of vDSA, and even then usually the healer would be asked to do so. Trials would be a different matter entirely, though.
    Kiss the chaos.
  • essi2
    essi2
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    TL,DR:

    Everyone has different expectations and there is no right way aslong as you keep everyone alive and support in some way.



    Best thing to do as Healer(or Tank for that matter) is to find a good flexible group of friends or a guild that hasn't been brainwashed by the rest of their peers into thinking there is a correct answer to everything, then find out what abilities and gear work best with your playstyle and the needs of your group.

    What class you are also matters alot to how you play as a healer.
    "The Heritance are racists yes? Idiots. But dangerous, destabilizing racist idiots." - Razum-dar

    "per rectum ad astra" - Latin Phrases

    "Wood Elves aren't made of wood, Sea Elves aren't made of water. M'aiq still wonders about High Elves" - M'aiq the Liar

    "There are Dragons in Northern Elswyer, stop asking!" - Me everytime dragons are mentioned [After Chapter 3 announcement]
  • Mureel
    Mureel
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    exeeter702 wrote: »
    chris211 wrote: »
    healing springs is a must

    I was surprised this was not mentioned more... true.

    Its not mentioned because its absolutely not true. Id argue its a complete waste of a slot when healing dungeons. Nb and warden healers absolutely do not require it.

    When I heal, whether it be my real healer or my nb, I make combat prayer my group heal as much as possible.

    I sometimes toss springs if people are spread out stupidly or necessarily, just to proc spc.

    Usually though- combat prayer. I use the single ward morph because I use harness magicka on myself so I don't need one bubble on me.

    If the dps are hairy/squishy/bad I'll use nubloon or nubble (barrier) instead of warhorn- and I never slot rapid regen/mutagen. No need on Templar and on NB Funnel Health and Sap Essence, Combat Prayer, springs, ward and warhorn or nubble.

    I don't have refreshing path but twisting because I use my nb in IC and I'm not willing to sacrifice the damage from it, but I've never had a wipe on my nb healer yet, but I don't heal trials or even things like vbf and so on, on her.
    Edited by Mureel on January 31, 2018 9:14AM
    You know you don't have to be here right?
  • Asardes
    Asardes
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    For vanilla vetaran dungeons a full healer is not necessary and you are better off in a DD spec that supports off-heals, debuffs and sustain trough the usual rotation. And my solo Templar setup does that pretty well:

    Gear
    5 Law of Julianos (chest, legs, feet, shoulders, waist), 5/4 Infallible Mage (3 jewels, hands, front bar lightning staff) w Maelstrom lightning staff back bar 1 Iceheart (head), all divines armor with magicka enchants, infused staves, front with flame enchant, back with berserker enchant, spell damage enchants on jewels.

    Skills
    Front Bar: Radiant Glory | Purifying Light | Elemental Drain | Harness Magicka | Inner Light || Empowering Sweep
    Back Bar: Elemental Blockade | Blazing Spear | Ritual of Retribution | Vampire's Bane | Degeneration || Elemental Rage

    Rotation
    Apply Elemental Drain LA-> Purifying Light -> bar swap -> Degeneration -> LA -> Vampire's Bane -> LA -> Ritual of Retribution -> LA -> Elemental Blockade -> bar swap -> LA -> Purifying Light -> HA -> HA [repeat, refresh Elemental Drain every 2nd rotation, cast Elemental Rage when full]

    What it provides
    2 heals over time: Ritual of Retribution (if you sit on it), Purifying Light (for targets in melee range)
    1 unique buff: Minor Sorcery from Dawn's Wrath:Illuminate passive when casting Vampire's Bane and Purifying Light
    1 sustain skill: spear synergy
    4 common debuffs: Off-balance from Lightning Blockade or Minor Vulnerability from IA 5th piece, Magicka steal and Major Breach from Elemental Drain

    Note
    If you have a stamina Templar in group do not apply Purifying Light on the same target where applies Power of the Light, since those skills override each other, being different morphs of the same base skill

    For harder fights in some DLC dungeons I'll swap to either my "spread" healing setup, with Maelstrom healing staff and additional heals/buffs such as Combat Prayer and Rapid Regeneration, or even "stacked" setup with Master restoration staff and healing springs. Those use different armor too, 5 pieces Spellpower Cure and 5 pieces Worm Cult or Twilight Remedy - still working on collecting Mending.
    Beta tester since February 2014, playing ESO-TU since October 2015
    vMA | vDSA | vAA HM | vHRC HM | vSO HM | vMoL | vAS+1
    EU PC CP 1000+
    Member of:
    Pact Veteran Trade
    The Alchemist's Emporium
    Handelsgilde
    The Tipsy Trader
    Divine Deals


    Characters:
    Asardes | 50 Nord Dragonknight | EP AR 34 | Master Crafter: all traits, styles & recipes
    Alxaril Nelcarion | 50 High Elf Sorcerer | AD AR 18 |
    Dro'Bear Three-paws | 50 Khajiit Nightblade | AD AR 18 |
    Veronique Nicole | 50 Breton Templar | DC AR 18 |
    Sabina Flavia Cosades | 50 Imperial Warden | EP AR 18 |
    Ervesa Neloren | 50 Dark Elf Dragonknight | EP AR 18 |
    Fendar Khodwin | 50 Redguard Sorcerer | DC AR 18 |
    Surilanwe of Lillandril | 50 High Elf Nightblade | AD AR 15 |

    Joleen the Swift | 50 Redguard Templar | DC AR 4 |
    Draynor Telvanni | 50 Dark Elf Warden | EP AR 4 |
    Tharkul gro-Shug | 50 Orc Dragonknight | DC AR 4 |
    Ushruka gra-Lhurgash | 50 Orc Sorcerer | AD AR 3 |
    Cienwen ferch Llywelyn | 50 Breton Nightblade | DC AR 3 |
    Plays-with-Sunray | 50 Argonian Templar | EP AR 3 |
    Milariel | 50 Wolld Elf Warden | AD AR 3 |
  • Asardes
    Asardes
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Marginis wrote: »
    In content I've run I typically hear that Warhorn is the tank's job, but it's generally just a good idea to have SOMEONE with it. And it's probably best to have it be the healer or tank. That said, being the tank I am, it's better for me to just run Barrier, and spam it with all my amazing ult regen.

    Barrier is best used on the front bar for the Magicka Aid 2/2 passive - 10% magicka recovery for each Support skill slotted. I use it on both my healers and tanks to boost that stat. But I rarely cast it, and use Aggressive Horn as soon as it's full, unless the other person has just cast it. With 2 Aggressive Horns in group you can reach about ~40% major force up time and 100% stat buff up time, since I can generate enough ultimate to cast that in about 50 seconds. Horn at the start of the fight when the DDs cast their ultimates can shorten it a lot.
    Beta tester since February 2014, playing ESO-TU since October 2015
    vMA | vDSA | vAA HM | vHRC HM | vSO HM | vMoL | vAS+1
    EU PC CP 1000+
    Member of:
    Pact Veteran Trade
    The Alchemist's Emporium
    Handelsgilde
    The Tipsy Trader
    Divine Deals


    Characters:
    Asardes | 50 Nord Dragonknight | EP AR 34 | Master Crafter: all traits, styles & recipes
    Alxaril Nelcarion | 50 High Elf Sorcerer | AD AR 18 |
    Dro'Bear Three-paws | 50 Khajiit Nightblade | AD AR 18 |
    Veronique Nicole | 50 Breton Templar | DC AR 18 |
    Sabina Flavia Cosades | 50 Imperial Warden | EP AR 18 |
    Ervesa Neloren | 50 Dark Elf Dragonknight | EP AR 18 |
    Fendar Khodwin | 50 Redguard Sorcerer | DC AR 18 |
    Surilanwe of Lillandril | 50 High Elf Nightblade | AD AR 15 |

    Joleen the Swift | 50 Redguard Templar | DC AR 4 |
    Draynor Telvanni | 50 Dark Elf Warden | EP AR 4 |
    Tharkul gro-Shug | 50 Orc Dragonknight | DC AR 4 |
    Ushruka gra-Lhurgash | 50 Orc Sorcerer | AD AR 3 |
    Cienwen ferch Llywelyn | 50 Breton Nightblade | DC AR 3 |
    Plays-with-Sunray | 50 Argonian Templar | EP AR 3 |
    Milariel | 50 Wolld Elf Warden | AD AR 3 |
  • Marginis
    Marginis
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    For most content neither Warhorn or Barrier are necessary
    Illurian wrote: »
    Marginis wrote: »
    Marginis wrote: »
    In my experience, the DPS just have to stay alive and deal as much damage as possible.

    Tanks MUST stay alive, taunt everything, and help with buffs/debuffs.

    Healers basically just keep everyone alive so they can fulfill that part of their role, and then just do anything else they can. So if a DPS goes down, the healer should be the one to revive them, so long as the tank isn't terrible. If the tank goes down, you may need to off-tank, being able to stay alive better than a DPS. If the tank isn't doing all the buffs, help buff. If the tank and DPS are good as is, join in doing dps.

    This is just my experience of course. Even as an inexperienced tank I can keep a few team buffs up constantly by myself. However, I don't usually run Warhorn myself, so that's one thing a healer could help with (with me tanking, anyway).

    IMHO, you aint a proper healer if you don't horn for yer group. (best to be set up for fast ultimate regen.. ie. SOUL HARVEST, etc.)

    In content I've run I typically hear that Warhorn is the tank's job, but it's generally just a good idea to have SOMEONE with it. And it's probably best to have it be the healer or tank. That said, being the tank I am, it's better for me to just run Barrier, and spam it with all my amazing ult regen.

    Generally both the tank and healer run (aggressive) Warhorn and alternate between themselves per fight. Communication is vital though, as Warhorn doesn't stack with itself. So if both the tank and healer use Warhorn on the same fight, it'd be a complete waste of 1 ultimate.

    Barrier is unnecessary for 99% of 4 man content, and even that 1% is very situational and isn't "essential". The only place I've ever seen anyone slot barrier is with a low dps group on the last boss of vDSA, and even then usually the healer would be asked to do so. Trials would be a different matter entirely, though.

    To be fair, Warhorn isn't very "essential" either. Although I was kinda talking about trials, like you mentioned. I'm trying to make this my build for that. And currently, with my building toward damage shields and my quick ult regen, barrier stays up a lot. It's a good way to help with a mediocre healer, stupid DPSers, or just as a defensive buff when you need it, for just regular and vet dungeons.

    Asardes wrote: »
    Marginis wrote: »
    In content I've run I typically hear that Warhorn is the tank's job, but it's generally just a good idea to have SOMEONE with it. And it's probably best to have it be the healer or tank. That said, being the tank I am, it's better for me to just run Barrier, and spam it with all my amazing ult regen.

    Barrier is best used on the front bar for the Magicka Aid 2/2 passive - 10% magicka recovery for each Support skill slotted. I use it on both my healers and tanks to boost that stat. But I rarely cast it, and use Aggressive Horn as soon as it's full, unless the other person has just cast it. With 2 Aggressive Horns in group you can reach about ~40% major force up time and 100% stat buff up time, since I can generate enough ultimate to cast that in about 50 seconds. Horn at the start of the fight when the DDs cast their ultimates can shorten it a lot.

    I use werewolf on my front bar for stamina regen, and barrier on my backbar for magicka regen. I only ult with barrier however, I never actually use werewolf. And like I said, warhorn is something you want to have up in rotation pretty much constantly, I'd just make someone else use it because my build supports barrier specifically. Even in the case where we only have one warhorn then, it's basically just giving up a little offense for a bit of defense. It still comes in quite useful in any "oh s***" moment in any activity.
    @Marginis on PC, Senpai Fluffy on Xbox, Founder of Magicka. Also known as Kha'jiri, The Night Mother, Ma'iq, Jane Shepard, Damia, Kintyra, Zoor Do Kest, You, and a few others.
  • Illurian
    Illurian
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Marginis wrote: »
    For most content neither Warhorn or Barrier are necessary
    Illurian wrote: »
    Marginis wrote: »
    Marginis wrote: »
    In my experience, the DPS just have to stay alive and deal as much damage as possible.

    Tanks MUST stay alive, taunt everything, and help with buffs/debuffs.

    Healers basically just keep everyone alive so they can fulfill that part of their role, and then just do anything else they can. So if a DPS goes down, the healer should be the one to revive them, so long as the tank isn't terrible. If the tank goes down, you may need to off-tank, being able to stay alive better than a DPS. If the tank isn't doing all the buffs, help buff. If the tank and DPS are good as is, join in doing dps.

    This is just my experience of course. Even as an inexperienced tank I can keep a few team buffs up constantly by myself. However, I don't usually run Warhorn myself, so that's one thing a healer could help with (with me tanking, anyway).

    IMHO, you aint a proper healer if you don't horn for yer group. (best to be set up for fast ultimate regen.. ie. SOUL HARVEST, etc.)

    In content I've run I typically hear that Warhorn is the tank's job, but it's generally just a good idea to have SOMEONE with it. And it's probably best to have it be the healer or tank. That said, being the tank I am, it's better for me to just run Barrier, and spam it with all my amazing ult regen.

    Generally both the tank and healer run (aggressive) Warhorn and alternate between themselves per fight. Communication is vital though, as Warhorn doesn't stack with itself. So if both the tank and healer use Warhorn on the same fight, it'd be a complete waste of 1 ultimate.

    Barrier is unnecessary for 99% of 4 man content, and even that 1% is very situational and isn't "essential". The only place I've ever seen anyone slot barrier is with a low dps group on the last boss of vDSA, and even then usually the healer would be asked to do so. Trials would be a different matter entirely, though.

    To be fair, Warhorn isn't very "essential" either. Although I was kinda talking about trials, like you mentioned. I'm trying to make this my build for that. And currently, with my building toward damage shields and my quick ult regen, barrier stays up a lot. It's a good way to help with a mediocre healer, stupid DPSers, or just as a defensive buff when you need it, for just regular and vet dungeons.

    I'd beg to differ. I'd consider Warhorn on tanks/healers essential in any end-game group content (even more so in trials) assuming you have decent players.

    Quick ult regen is exactly what you want for Warhorn too, though. The thing with Barrier (and defensive ults in general) in PvE is that they are entirely redundant. Even a mediocre/bad healer would be able to keep the entire group alive without using any ults and just spamming springs. If your DPS are going to stand in stupid, they will do so anyway whether you barrier or not, and will simply die after barrier runs out. There is not a solution for stupidity.

    You seem to enjoy your defensive build and seem proud of it, and I can only encourage that, but don't suggest it to someone asking for efficiency.
    Kiss the chaos.
  • Marginis
    Marginis
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Illurian wrote: »
    You seem to enjoy your defensive build and seem proud of it, and I can only encourage that, but don't suggest it to someone asking for efficiency.

    I would never suggest my build lol. And I agree, you want Warhorn, but you only really ever need two people running it, and there's room to deviate as long as you have that.
    @Marginis on PC, Senpai Fluffy on Xbox, Founder of Magicka. Also known as Kha'jiri, The Night Mother, Ma'iq, Jane Shepard, Damia, Kintyra, Zoor Do Kest, You, and a few others.
  • mocap
    mocap
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    - PUG normal dungeons - TON of DPS, literally 3rd DPS player;
    - PUG vet dungeons - heal + DPS hybrid, you need to adapt to current situation;
    - vet DLC dungeons, Trials and vet dungeons with pro team - buf, high-end gear like SPC and blablabla copy "alcast" paste build;

    Again, all that %dmg bonuses on crappy PUG DPS'ers is bs. If he just spam bow light attack and some skill creating 10k dps, your super-duper Combat Player will add a pathetic 800 damage to them. OR, you can do your own dps like 20K single target. Feel the difference?
  • gabriebe
    gabriebe
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Most 'vanilla' vet dungeons: lol do whatever you want, throw some heals some time, they are too easy. A templar with BoL is enough.

    DLC dungeons/vDSA: More or less a trial setup but for four people, with some flexibility. I prefer my sword & board /resto setup with Twilight, backbarred SPC and Earthgore. And I take Warhorn out and replace it with the resto staff ult.

    Trials: It's been long established that there's litterally 2 ways of healing trials, SPC + Mending and SPC+Worm with Master Resto and Maelstrom Lightning, so I've given up a long time ago on not running that.




    Edited by gabriebe on February 1, 2018 8:22AM
    Former Empresses: Saliva Bortschion (MagBlade), Janet From Finance (PvP MagSorc), Carla Swagan (Tank DK), Estelle Born (StamBlade), Enya Arsenal (MagPlar), Anita Nurse (Magplar Healer), Bearback Brigitte (Magden), Rachel Justice (MagDK), Nicole From Payroll (Stamden), Bailiff Belinda (PvE MagSorc)

    The runts: The Trolly Spirit (Tank Sorc), Floods-Your-Basement (Magden Healer) , Féline Dion (StamDK)

    The traitor
    s: Janis Javelin (Stamplar, EP), Sabrina The Teenage Snitch (Magblade Healer, AD)

    PvE: vAA HM, vSO HM, vHRC HM, vHOF HM, vAS HM, vMOL, vCR+2


    GM: Animal Control



  • Asardes
    Asardes
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Marginis wrote: »
    I use werewolf on my front bar for stamina regen, and barrier on my backbar for magicka regen. I only ult with barrier however, I never actually use werewolf. And like I said, warhorn is something you want to have up in rotation pretty much constantly, I'd just make someone else use it because my build supports barrier specifically. Even in the case where we only have one warhorn then, it's basically just giving up a little offense for a bit of defense. It still comes in quite useful in any "oh s***" moment in any activity.

    Why would you need high stamina recovery on a healer? And 10% isn't much if you work with base recovery. It's something like ~60 extra recovery which isn't worth anything really, and you use that stamina only for blocking, and when blocking recovery is canceled anyway. That's why I always put quite a few points in Shadow Ward, Thumbling and Warlord on my magicka characters too, since they have to block, roll dodge and break free on a ~10K stamina pool. On the other hand a high base recovery magicka build, for example using set bonuses that buff that stat, jewelry glyphs and Atronach mundus, the % recovery becomes much stronger.
    Beta tester since February 2014, playing ESO-TU since October 2015
    vMA | vDSA | vAA HM | vHRC HM | vSO HM | vMoL | vAS+1
    EU PC CP 1000+
    Member of:
    Pact Veteran Trade
    The Alchemist's Emporium
    Handelsgilde
    The Tipsy Trader
    Divine Deals


    Characters:
    Asardes | 50 Nord Dragonknight | EP AR 34 | Master Crafter: all traits, styles & recipes
    Alxaril Nelcarion | 50 High Elf Sorcerer | AD AR 18 |
    Dro'Bear Three-paws | 50 Khajiit Nightblade | AD AR 18 |
    Veronique Nicole | 50 Breton Templar | DC AR 18 |
    Sabina Flavia Cosades | 50 Imperial Warden | EP AR 18 |
    Ervesa Neloren | 50 Dark Elf Dragonknight | EP AR 18 |
    Fendar Khodwin | 50 Redguard Sorcerer | DC AR 18 |
    Surilanwe of Lillandril | 50 High Elf Nightblade | AD AR 15 |

    Joleen the Swift | 50 Redguard Templar | DC AR 4 |
    Draynor Telvanni | 50 Dark Elf Warden | EP AR 4 |
    Tharkul gro-Shug | 50 Orc Dragonknight | DC AR 4 |
    Ushruka gra-Lhurgash | 50 Orc Sorcerer | AD AR 3 |
    Cienwen ferch Llywelyn | 50 Breton Nightblade | DC AR 3 |
    Plays-with-Sunray | 50 Argonian Templar | EP AR 3 |
    Milariel | 50 Wolld Elf Warden | AD AR 3 |
  • RobbieRocket
    RobbieRocket
    ✭✭✭
    Astrid_V wrote: »
    Healers are pretty much useless in every content except veteran trials and organised PvP groups.

    I always do dungeons as 3x DDs and 1x tank, but when sometimes I have some healer there, the most important thing for me is that he needs to debuff the bosses, buff DDs and help group members with sustain. Pure heals are not so necessary, magicka DDs will shield themselves, stamina DDs will use blade cloak and vigor, and tanks shouldn't have problems with survivability because bosses in dungeons are not very challenging. Of course if your group dps will be very low you can help them finish bosses with jesus beam etc.

    Except that "you and others who play that way, or at that level (if you prefer) are not there in every content all of the time"...

    You probably forgot to mention that but there are many players who either play casual or aren't "top drawer" in terms of rotations and combat/mechanics. And that is just the end-gamers. There are also, oh yes there are, tons of players who are new, newer, will be new or have returned to the game and need help with dungeons, vet dungeons, hard mode vet dungeons, normal trials and then of course Battlegrounds - which is actually somewhere that Honor The Dead really works.

    A quality healer with at thought out build is a must in vet trials and organised PvP, rather than uselsess anywhere else...
  • VexingArcanist
    VexingArcanist
    ✭✭✭✭
    There is a 4 month gap from the original poster's thread and the soul shard used to resurrect it.
Sign In or Register to comment.