Don't they need to nerf sets like fury in order to get people out of heavy armor?

Ragnarock41

Krayzie wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Go ahead, make yourself believe the lie that when you nerf fury and seventh all is gonna be fine lol.
''oh look guys I have 2 weapon damage proc sets and I can almost hit 5k weapon damage''
Yeah.. You can get much more reliable dueling builds with sets like ravager.. alchemist etc..
You can even go alchemist+seventh legion and have a much more scary dueling build.
And unlike fury builds you have NO COUNTERPLAY vs alchemist. Its burst on demand, burst anytime you want.
You don't need to eat 25 *** CRITS to make alchemist work.


Anyways, 4k+ weapon damage setups are totally possible without any WD proc sets.

This is my stats with my no longer used oldschool no procs Dk build.
(yes I know It lacks impen. I nonger use it because battle roar no longer scales with your resources, so no point getting max stamina really.)


Front bar (keep in mind vMA no longer gives you weapon damage and no wrath so this would be a lot higher in old patch)



So I can get to 4k WD without any weapon damage sets , without wrath, without the vMA bonus.
My point is people use these sets over max stat sets because Dk no longer has any synergy with stamina, since the morrowind nerfs all the scaling this class have is completely gutted.

I would gladly trade all the WD sets in this game to get my old battle roar back.
Sadly thats not the case anymore. So, yeah.. better get used to it.

PS: With all being said, I Do believe nerfing Fury to give less WD without any compensations will ruin the set for 1vX(Which was its main purpose) and make it garbage tier just like black rose. You guys remember what black rose became after your QQ posts right?
It can be reworked to charge quicker, but give less weapon damage, but people will just use other sets instead, so in the end you will end up ruining another playstyle for essentially, nothing.

do you have a suggestion

Im all out of ideas at this point.
I suggested making fury work similar to black rose, change the 5th bonus to boost wrath to %300 so 5th piece would make wrath give you 600 instead of 200 weapon damage.
That would mean the total WD you get from 5th bonus would be only 400, and It would make the set useable for PvE aswell,while now making it any stronger.

But noooo zos had to remove wrath instead, which was totally fine.

So yeah. At this point nerfing fury/seventh without touching ravager,alchemist etc will only be a nerf to stamDk.
I don't have a good suggestion, Im just saying every class is doing the same ***, and reaching 4-5k WD is easier than you think.

And Im really, really tired of all the direct and indirect stamDk nerfs.
The class totally lost its identity as a ''heavy armor fighter.''
And slowly turning into a tank that is boring to play or play against.

Qbiken

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

No, they need to nerf the CP that allow these sets to proc their full potential whilst the user blocks for free and heals to full any from incoming damage. Re armor types, necessary and OP are two different things.

Its not complicated, buff the alternative option(medium), and remove CP from PvP -- if you disagree with the latter then stfu with this QQ, if you're interested in a conversation about balance but don't include the one glaringly obvious element that makes an even playing field categorically impossible in PvP then you're not engaging in a conversation worth having.

Saying that people should shout their mouth just because they don´t agree or simply forgot/didn´t consider an element isn´t a good way of promoting an healthy discussion either in my opinion...

Until there´s some sort of proof that no-cp is more balanced than CP, I will never be able to take these arguments serious. Both CP and no-CP has their pros and cons. It´s a matter of what you prefer playing. If you like CP-you play in Vivec, Shor or battlegrounds. If you don´t like CP you play no-cp campaign.

TheMystid

Pretty difficult to suggest anything, when ZOS nerfing policy is most of the time completely wrong lacklustre: when they nerf, they just kill what they nerf. By constantly throwing babies out of the babywaters in order to achieve an impossible "balance" (since pve and pvp cannot be balanced with the same tools), they're making this game more boring and flat patch after patch...

Ragnarock41

TheMystid wrote: »

Pretty difficult to suggest anything, when ZOS nerfing policy is most of the time completely wrong lacklustre: when they nerf, they just kill what they nerf. By constantly throwing babies out of the babywaters in order to achieve an impossible "balance" (since pve and pvp cannot be balanced with the same tools), they're making this game more boring and flat patch after patch...

This, and a hundred percent this.
I am just afraid to suggest anything because what they do makes zero sense to me at this point.
stonefist too weak? nerf petrify.
Heavy armor sets need adjusting? remove wrath and gimp all the non proc sets.

Great logic. perfect.

xiZeroPointix

Look at the old posts from 2014 and 2015. There were thousands of nerfs dk threads. Now it has come to pass and people still arent happy. Zos does listen and caters to its pvp crowd. While the pve performace suffers in the wake of the crying and nerf this and that. Dk wouldnt be were it is now if people would have stopped complaing about it and instead talked abou the real issues in the game other than i keep dying to dk and they need nerfed lol its funny to watch as the game is destroyed by pvp and the fact that people cant stand to die...its part of the game! Now people are wanting armor sets nerfed instead of addressing the issues with medium armor! Wrath was important to heavy armor and now its gone and i am sick and tired of forums like this that get stuff we love in the game taken away piece by piece for the sake of balancing pvp. Enough is enough. Stop crying an l2p. Talk abou the real problems in the game instead of bashing armor sets and class abilities!

TheMystid

xiZeroPointix wrote: »

Look at the old posts from 2014 and 2015. There were thousands of nerfs dk threads. Now it has come to pass and people still arent happy. Zos does listen and caters to its pvp crowd. While the pve performace suffers in the wake of the crying and nerf this and that. Dk wouldnt be were it is now if people would have stopped complaing about it and instead talked abou the real issues in the game other than i keep dying to dk and they need nerfed lol its funny to watch as the game is destroyed by pvp and the fact that people cant stand to die...its part of the game! Now people are wanting armor sets nerfed instead of addressing the issues with medium armor! Wrath was important to heavy armor and now its gone and i am sick and tired of forums like this that get stuff we love in the game taken away piece by piece for the sake of balancing pvp. Enough is enough. Stop crying an l2p. Talk abou the real problems in the game instead of bashing armor sets and class abilities!

I think the argument "if people cry about x, then ZOS nerf x, so stop crying because you ruin the game" is a pretty dumb argument. If there's a balance issue, expecially in pvp, the QQ is physiological. The blanket nerf that actually doesn't fix any balance issue, on the other side, is completely on ZOS and the controversial way in which they are shaping this game...

xiZeroPointix

TheMystid wrote: »

xiZeroPointix wrote: »

Look at the old posts from 2014 and 2015. There were thousands of nerfs dk threads. Now it has come to pass and people still arent happy. Zos does listen and caters to its pvp crowd. While the pve performace suffers in the wake of the crying and nerf this and that. Dk wouldnt be were it is now if people would have stopped complaing about it and instead talked abou the real issues in the game other than i keep dying to dk and they need nerfed lol its funny to watch as the game is destroyed by pvp and the fact that people cant stand to die...its part of the game! Now people are wanting armor sets nerfed instead of addressing the issues with medium armor! Wrath was important to heavy armor and now its gone and i am sick and tired of forums like this that get stuff we love in the game taken away piece by piece for the sake of balancing pvp. Enough is enough. Stop crying an l2p. Talk abou the real problems in the game instead of bashing armor sets and class abilities!

I think the argument "if people cry about x, then ZOS nerf x, so stop crying because you ruin the game" is a pretty dumb argument. If there's a balance issue, expecially in pvp, the QQ is physiological. The blanket nerf that actually doesn't fix any balance issue, on the other side, is completely on ZOS and the controversial way in which they are shaping this game...

Not an argument to anything. It is a statement based on what is posted in these forums and then the changes made to try to compensate for shortcomings in pvp. Nerfing good armor sets, especially after the wrath passive was removed is a bad call. The issue atvhand is the underperformance of medium armor in which is the only armor line that doesnt offer any resistances like its light armor counterpart. Players are forced into heavy armor for survivability. Just so happened that there was damage stackinh going on with the wrath passive and armor sets like 7th and ravager. Heavy armor should be able to do damage, at the same time medium should offer more survivability in its passives other than dodge chance and roll dodge reduction.

Skullstachio

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Go ahead, make yourself believe the lie that when you nerf fury and seventh all is gonna be fine lol.
''oh look guys I have 2 weapon damage proc sets and I can almost hit 5k weapon damage''
Yeah.. You can get much more reliable dueling builds with sets like ravager.. alchemist etc..
You can even go alchemist+seventh legion and have a much more scary dueling build.
And unlike fury builds you have NO COUNTERPLAY vs alchemist. Its burst on demand, burst anytime you want.
You don't need to eat 25 *** CRITS to make alchemist work.


Anyways, 4k+ weapon damage setups are totally possible without any WD proc sets.

This is my stats with my no longer used oldschool no procs Dk build.
(yes I know It lacks impen. I nonger use it because battle roar no longer scales with your resources, so no point getting max stamina really.)


Front bar (keep in mind vMA no longer gives you weapon damage and no wrath so this would be a lot higher in old patch)



So I can get to 4k WD without any weapon damage sets , without wrath, without the vMA bonus.
My point is people use these sets over max stat sets because Dk no longer has any synergy with stamina, since the morrowind nerfs all the scaling this class have is completely gutted.

I would gladly trade all the WD sets in this game to get my old battle roar back.
Sadly thats not the case anymore. So, yeah.. better get used to it.

PS: With all being said, I Do believe nerfing Fury to give less WD without any compensations will ruin the set for 1vX(Which was its main purpose) and make it garbage tier just like black rose. You guys remember what black rose became after your QQ posts right?
It can be reworked to charge quicker, but give less weapon damage, but people will just use other sets instead, so in the end you will end up ruining another playstyle for essentially, nothing.

Funny thing about the alchemist set, according to a PTS Patch note, ZOS said that they were going to make it so that clever alchemist can only proc while in combat, & considering the fact that they know people have been using alchemist while hidden to One-Shot people from stealth in PVP is the main reason why they nerfed it like so according to their Developer Commentary.

Minno

Alpha-Lupi wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Go ahead, make yourself believe the lie that when you nerf fury and seventh all is gonna be fine lol.
''oh look guys I have 2 weapon damage proc sets and I can almost hit 5k weapon damage''
Yeah.. You can get much more reliable dueling builds with sets like ravager.. alchemist etc..
You can even go alchemist+seventh legion and have a much more scary dueling build.
And unlike fury builds you have NO COUNTERPLAY vs alchemist. Its burst on demand, burst anytime you want.
You don't need to eat 25 *** CRITS to make alchemist work.


Anyways, 4k+ weapon damage setups are totally possible without any WD proc sets.

This is my stats with my no longer used oldschool no procs Dk build.
(yes I know It lacks impen. I nonger use it because battle roar no longer scales with your resources, so no point getting max stamina really.)


Front bar (keep in mind vMA no longer gives you weapon damage and no wrath so this would be a lot higher in old patch)



So I can get to 4k WD without any weapon damage sets , without wrath, without the vMA bonus.
My point is people use these sets over max stat sets because Dk no longer has any synergy with stamina, since the morrowind nerfs all the scaling this class have is completely gutted.

I would gladly trade all the WD sets in this game to get my old battle roar back.
Sadly thats not the case anymore. So, yeah.. better get used to it.

PS: With all being said, I Do believe nerfing Fury to give less WD without any compensations will ruin the set for 1vX(Which was its main purpose) and make it garbage tier just like black rose. You guys remember what black rose became after your QQ posts right?
It can be reworked to charge quicker, but give less weapon damage, but people will just use other sets instead, so in the end you will end up ruining another playstyle for essentially, nothing.

Funny thing about the alchemist set, according to a PTS Patch note, ZOS said that they were going to make it so that clever alchemist can only proc while in combat, & considering the fact that they know people have been using alchemist while hidden to One-Shot people from stealth in PVP is the main reason why they nerfed it like so according to their Developer Commentary.

I agree. I don't think they intended CA to be a stealth buff set. I think they intended it to be a flexible frontline buff/hybrid set, based on the stats alone (health stat+both damage stats on a craftable).

also counterplay on alchemist is using WD/SD reduction glyphs and crit dmg/cost poisons. Lowering the bonus from that burst window means the player has a higher cooldown till the next burst window or you lower their gas tank forcing them to regen resources.

Hixtory

ak_pvp wrote: »

Nerf permablocking and the like, tone down Cp.

Replace with dynamic ultimate and abilities so people still have a chance against zergs of skilless idiots.

So you want to win a 1vs X just because, yeah OK. If you face 1 vs >2 you should lose, unless you face bad players who have no idea to pvp.

Zergs are not the problem you have ways to kill several if you are organized, group vs group is at least fun, not those solo players who run in rocks and trees all the time like morrons and then they kill someone because that someone was chasing and had no resources while that player was building ulti, that for me is worst.