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Don't they need to nerf sets like fury in order to get people out of heavy armor?

Krayzie
Krayzie
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I feel as if the wrath removal and shuffle are barely going to scratch it.

I feel like full heavy 30k health stam sorcs will still be able to one shot me 23k health stamplar in medium....
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  • Skullstachio
    Skullstachio
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    Something just occurred to me, If players are only going to be able to use their respective armor skills by wearing 5 pieces of that armor...

    But thinking about that one heavy armor set: Warriors Fury. If it's effects only trigger on taking critical damage, doesn't that mean it is somewhat useless?!?!?

    Think about it, NPC's can't land critical hits on players because it is not in their coding, & the only place that even remotely lands critical hits are other enemy players in duels & cyrodiil, & because the Battlespirit passive reduces all damage taken by 50%, it just means that warriors fury only gets you 375 weapon damage on the 25th stack instead of 750. (since battle spirit halves all incoming damage from all sources in PVP activities.)

    because of the Damage reduction from battlespirit, warriors fury is literally useless!

    (set cracked wide open.)

    A Suggestion/Better idea: Make it so that Warriors Fury can trigger upon taking damage instead of upon taking critical damage & it might be more viable for Heavy Armor players since Wrath was removed & replaced with Revitalise. (that & the weapon damage granted by the set is not as effective in duels & cyrodiilic activity.)

    Problem Solved (Temporarily. When one Problem Falls, Another shall rise to take its place.)
    Edited by Skullstachio on October 22, 2017 12:20PM
    "When the human race learns to read the language of symbolism, a great veil will fall from the eyes of men." ~Manly P. Hall
  • SodanTok
    SodanTok
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    Alpha-Lupi wrote: »
    Something just occurred to me, If players are only going to be able to use their respective armor skills by wearing 5 pieces of that armor...

    But thinking about that one heavy armor set: Warriors Fury. If it's effects only trigger on taking critical damage, doesn't that mean it is somewhat useless?!?!?

    Think about it, NPC's can't land critical hits on players because it is not in their coding, & the only place that even remotely lands critical hits are other enemy players in duels & cyrodiil, & because the Battlespirit passive reduces all damage taken by 50%, it just means that warriors fury only gets you 375 weapon damage on the 25th stack instead of 750. (since battle spirit halves all incoming damage from all sources in PVP activities.)

    because of the Damage reduction from battlespirit, warriors fury is literally useless!

    (set cracked wide open.)

    A Suggestion/Better idea: Make it so that Warriors Fury can trigger upon taking damage instead of upon taking critical damage & it might be more viable for Heavy Armor players since Wrath was removed & replaced with Revitalise. (that & the weapon damage granted by the set is not as effective in duels & cyrodiilic activity.)

    Problem Solved (Temporarily. When one Problem Falls, Another shall rise to take its place.)

    Wrong on all accords (except that part that NPC dont crit). Fury is the best damge set in the game for PVP. Battle Spirit is not reducing weapon/spell damage, just overall damage.
    Edited by SodanTok on October 22, 2017 12:31PM
  • Biro123
    Biro123
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    SodanTok wrote: »
    Alpha-Lupi wrote: »
    Something just occurred to me, If players are only going to be able to use their respective armor skills by wearing 5 pieces of that armor...

    But thinking about that one heavy armor set: Warriors Fury. If it's effects only trigger on taking critical damage, doesn't that mean it is somewhat useless?!?!?

    Think about it, NPC's can't land critical hits on players because it is not in their coding, & the only place that even remotely lands critical hits are other enemy players in duels & cyrodiil, & because the Battlespirit passive reduces all damage taken by 50%, it just means that warriors fury only gets you 375 weapon damage on the 25th stack instead of 750. (since battle spirit halves all incoming damage from all sources in PVP activities.)

    because of the Damage reduction from battlespirit, warriors fury is literally useless!

    (set cracked wide open.)

    A Suggestion/Better idea: Make it so that Warriors Fury can trigger upon taking damage instead of upon taking critical damage & it might be more viable for Heavy Armor players since Wrath was removed & replaced with Revitalise. (that & the weapon damage granted by the set is not as effective in duels & cyrodiilic activity.)

    Problem Solved (Temporarily. When one Problem Falls, Another shall rise to take its place.)

    Wrong on all accords (except that part that NPC dont crit). Fury is the best damge set in the game for PVP. Battle Spirit is not reducing weapon/spell damage, just overall damage.

    Yep, so even though the benefit seems smaller because of battle spirit, its still more than most other damage sets -which is why people are always gonna use it.


    Minalan owes me a beer.

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  • Checkmath
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    warrior's fury procs on getting damage, it does not matter how much damage, so even if you take less damage through battlespirit, you still get more weapon damage for every time you get damage.
    That is why warrior's fury and seventh legion are insanely strong, since the proc (healing proc of seventh legion only) have no cooldown.
    For PvE warrior's fury is useless, right, and seventh legion isnt used there too. they ARE PvP sets and they perform more than well there;)
  • Qbiken
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    Krayzie wrote: »
    I feel as if the wrath removal and shuffle are barely going to scratch it.

    I feel like full heavy 30k health stam sorcs will still be able to one shot me 23k health stamplar in medium....

    Well, that set amongst a lot of other sets are the reason heavy armor is so strong in PvP. The heavy armor skilline itself is balanced.
  • amir412
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    First thing to nerf Seventh legion set that carry all this stam DK's perma block plebs that causing zos to nerf this class,
    No cooldown on proc, Last patch remove the battle spirit healing reduction.. poor zos.
    Edited by amir412 on October 22, 2017 12:47PM
    PC | EU | AD |Stam Dk named "-Saidden"| 1700 CP|
    "..A world without fire. Ashen one, is this truly thy wish?.."


  • arkansas_ESO
    arkansas_ESO
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    You could nerf sets like Seventh and Fury and they'd just craft Hunding's or Clever in heavy, the issue isn't that heavy has far better sets but that medium is unappealing due to bad passives+block is a stronger and more consistent defense than dodge roll.


    Grand Overlord 25/8/17
  • Ragnarock41
    Ragnarock41
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    ''oh no, people get weapon damage in heavy armor''

    Clever alchemist exists for how many years now?
    And those 30k hp stamsorcs usually run clever alchemist. Its what stamsorc dreams, burst on demand.


    Fury is a set that is absolutely garbage on a 1v1.
    The wind up time on it is long, which makes it also *** for battlegrounds.
    So it is literally a 1vX set. Its only good when you're badly, severely outnumbered.
    Most people don't even try this set themselves. Go give it a shot to see if its anywhere close to how versatile alchemist is.


    And seventh legion is a disgusting set, because It has no cooldown.Its the proc sets problem all over again.
    But, this can be solved very easily.
    Something like 8 sec uptime 10-12 second cooldown will put the set in line, and will get rid of the problematic heal spam from it aswell.
    everyones problem with this set is how it procs again and again because it has no cooldown.
    That being said you might think this set gives insane DPS, but people forget infused weapon enchant gives me 450 WD on demand for 5 seconds, and It has basically no cooldown. Its literally the same numbers I get from seventh legion, but everyone complains about seventh legion while a *** enchant is giving me the same bonus.


    IF that enchant is not a problem, than seventh legion's weapon damage shouldn't be a problem aswell.

    And about medium armor, remove all of those ''broken'' heavy armor sets, We simply wont use medium, ever.
    medium itself is literally made for nightblades.
    The armor has passives that are useful only for nightblades, It has stealth bonuses, come on, If you're not a nightblade Its literally useless.


    We don't use heavy builds because Its so strong.
    We use heavy because medium armor is not an option for us.









  • scipionumatia
    scipionumatia
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    @Ragnarock41
    you took all of my thoughts on the issue and put them into words
    Thank you sir
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  • ak_pvp
    ak_pvp
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    Nerf permablocking and the like, tone down Cp.

    Replace with dynamic ultimate and abilities so people still have a chance against zergs of skilless idiots.
    MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
    Best houseknight EU.
  • GeorgeBlack
    GeorgeBlack
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    Welcome to Eso. In which when a BiS is outperforming the developers will not address the BiS, but something else irrelevant to it.
    It's called blanket nerfs
  • Lexxypwns
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    ''oh no, people get weapon damage in heavy armor''

    Clever alchemist exists for how many years now?
    And those 30k hp stamsorcs usually run clever alchemist. Its what stamsorc dreams, burst on demand.


    Fury is a set that is absolutely garbage on a 1v1.
    The wind up time on it is long, which makes it also *** for battlegrounds.
    So it is literally a 1vX set. Its only good when you're badly, severely outnumbered.
    Most people don't even try this set themselves. Go give it a shot to see if its anywhere close to how versatile alchemist is.


    And seventh legion is a disgusting set, because It has no cooldown.Its the proc sets problem all over again.
    But, this can be solved very easily.
    Something like 8 sec uptime 10-12 second cooldown will put the set in line, and will get rid of the problematic heal spam from it aswell.
    everyones problem with this set is how it procs again and again because it has no cooldown.
    That being said you might think this set gives insane DPS, but people forget infused weapon enchant gives me 450 WD on demand for 5 seconds, and It has basically no cooldown. Its literally the same numbers I get from seventh legion, but everyone complains about seventh legion while a *** enchant is giving me the same bonus.


    IF that enchant is not a problem, than seventh legion's weapon damage shouldn't be a problem aswell.

    And about medium armor, remove all of those ''broken'' heavy armor sets, We simply wont use medium, ever.
    medium itself is literally made for nightblades.
    The armor has passives that are useful only for nightblades, It has stealth bonuses, come on, If you're not a nightblade Its literally useless.


    We don't use heavy builds because Its so strong.
    We use heavy because medium armor is not an option for us.









    Fury is fully charged in less than 20 seconds 1v1. Just stop
  • Ragnarock41
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    Lexxypwns wrote: »
    ''oh no, people get weapon damage in heavy armor''

    Clever alchemist exists for how many years now?
    And those 30k hp stamsorcs usually run clever alchemist. Its what stamsorc dreams, burst on demand.


    Fury is a set that is absolutely garbage on a 1v1.
    The wind up time on it is long, which makes it also *** for battlegrounds.
    So it is literally a 1vX set. Its only good when you're badly, severely outnumbered.
    Most people don't even try this set themselves. Go give it a shot to see if its anywhere close to how versatile alchemist is.


    And seventh legion is a disgusting set, because It has no cooldown.Its the proc sets problem all over again.
    But, this can be solved very easily.
    Something like 8 sec uptime 10-12 second cooldown will put the set in line, and will get rid of the problematic heal spam from it aswell.
    everyones problem with this set is how it procs again and again because it has no cooldown.
    That being said you might think this set gives insane DPS, but people forget infused weapon enchant gives me 450 WD on demand for 5 seconds, and It has basically no cooldown. Its literally the same numbers I get from seventh legion, but everyone complains about seventh legion while a *** enchant is giving me the same bonus.


    IF that enchant is not a problem, than seventh legion's weapon damage shouldn't be a problem aswell.

    And about medium armor, remove all of those ''broken'' heavy armor sets, We simply wont use medium, ever.
    medium itself is literally made for nightblades.
    The armor has passives that are useful only for nightblades, It has stealth bonuses, come on, If you're not a nightblade Its literally useless.


    We don't use heavy builds because Its so strong.
    We use heavy because medium armor is not an option for us.









    Fury is fully charged in less than 20 seconds 1v1. Just stop

    As I said, fury is garbage on 1v1.
    Don't believe me? Go give it a shot.
    I compared fury to every other set in its category and I can honestly say Its a gimmick set against potato zerglings that do crits without any real pressure.
  • sneakymitchell
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    Only time when fury procs is when you got bunch of DoTs on you and if that player has a lot of crit. For me I use veil it procs 100% of the time if your a DK or Templar spamming jabs.
    NA-Xbox one- Ebonheart Pact- Nord Tank DK
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  • Ragnaroek93
    Ragnaroek93
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    Lexxypwns wrote: »
    ''oh no, people get weapon damage in heavy armor''

    Clever alchemist exists for how many years now?
    And those 30k hp stamsorcs usually run clever alchemist. Its what stamsorc dreams, burst on demand.


    Fury is a set that is absolutely garbage on a 1v1.
    The wind up time on it is long, which makes it also *** for battlegrounds.
    So it is literally a 1vX set. Its only good when you're badly, severely outnumbered.
    Most people don't even try this set themselves. Go give it a shot to see if its anywhere close to how versatile alchemist is.


    And seventh legion is a disgusting set, because It has no cooldown.Its the proc sets problem all over again.
    But, this can be solved very easily.
    Something like 8 sec uptime 10-12 second cooldown will put the set in line, and will get rid of the problematic heal spam from it aswell.
    everyones problem with this set is how it procs again and again because it has no cooldown.
    That being said you might think this set gives insane DPS, but people forget infused weapon enchant gives me 450 WD on demand for 5 seconds, and It has basically no cooldown. Its literally the same numbers I get from seventh legion, but everyone complains about seventh legion while a *** enchant is giving me the same bonus.


    IF that enchant is not a problem, than seventh legion's weapon damage shouldn't be a problem aswell.

    And about medium armor, remove all of those ''broken'' heavy armor sets, We simply wont use medium, ever.
    medium itself is literally made for nightblades.
    The armor has passives that are useful only for nightblades, It has stealth bonuses, come on, If you're not a nightblade Its literally useless.


    We don't use heavy builds because Its so strong.
    We use heavy because medium armor is not an option for us.









    Fury is fully charged in less than 20 seconds 1v1. Just stop

    As I said, fury is garbage on 1v1.
    Don't believe me? Go give it a shot.
    I compared fury to every other set in its category and I can honestly say Its a gimmick set against potato zerglings that do crits without any real pressure.

    Had almost 5k weapondamage on average in duels with fury + legion, just saying.
    I used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.
  • aeowulf
    aeowulf
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    '
    The armor has passives that are useful only for nightblades, It has stealth bonuses, come on, If you're not a nightblade Its literally useless.

    actually it has passives that are more useful for non-NB.

    Dexterity & Agility are weapon crit & damage - so useful for all
    Wind walker increases regen and reduces cost of stamina abilities - again useful for all
    Athletics is movement speed & roll dodge so... equal effect for all classes

    but the one i thnk you are referring to is improved sneak which reduces detection range and cost of sneak. As nightblades get invis which effectively gives you zero detection range, this is actually more useful to non-NB.

    Otherwise i do agree, there are many sets which when combined in unique combinations can make a very powerful toon. Mostly these tend to be very focused so i don't really consider that an issue. ie unkillable tanks on 1v1 are not a problem if they cannot kill back. It's the times when someone works out a combination that is flexible and powerful that it needs addressing.
  • lynog85
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    Krayzie wrote: »
    I feel as if the wrath removal and shuffle are barely going to scratch it.

    I feel like full heavy 30k health stam sorcs will still be able to one shot me 23k health stamplar in medium....

    They need to buff medium if they want people out of heavy. Its that simple really.
  • dodgehopper_ESO
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    lynog85 wrote: »
    Krayzie wrote: »
    I feel as if the wrath removal and shuffle are barely going to scratch it.

    I feel like full heavy 30k health stam sorcs will still be able to one shot me 23k health stamplar in medium....

    They need to buff medium if they want people out of heavy. Its that simple really.

    I know some very, very, very scary PvP'ers who use medium and light armor. I really don't know what this anti-Heavy Armor hatred is about. Heavy armor is more forgiving on the masses to be sure. The truth of the matter is that it was a fight to make Heavy Armor worthwhile. When this game started it was a liability. When this game started I tanked everything in light armor. Do you really think Heavy is so bad? I'm very concerned about these trends of sweeping rules changes. It is exhausting having to continually relearn the game every 3 months or less.

    We'll see how the changes go down but honestly the Heavy Armor haters annoy the hell out of me. Penetration is really powerful even with the very minor nerfs that were made. Against the right players, Heavy Armor is not as tough as you think.
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  • Qbiken
    Qbiken
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    Welcome to Eso. In which when a BiS is outperforming the developers will not address the BiS, but something else irrelevant to it.
    It's called blanket nerfs

    ZOS tends to actually nerf what´s considered BiS. Some examples:

    Burning Spellweave, Blackrose,
    Mother´s Sorrow (which got a nerf before it could even be considered BiS).

    Fury is IMO a balanced set when it comes to the design, to give you a chance to fight back while outnumbered. The issue is the amount of weapon damage it gives you (750 if I remember it correctly). Tone that down a bit and the set is fine. Ravager is a ok set due to its low proc-chance. 7th Legion needs to have a cooldown.
  • ecru
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    no one will use medium armor until medium armor sets are better for dps than heavy armor sets

    dunno why zos doesn't seem to be able to grasp this
    Gryphon Heart
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  • Skullstachio
    Skullstachio
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    You do know the wrath passive from heavy Armor is being removed & replaced with a new passive in clockwork city right?

    If you don't believe me, you can always refer to PTS patch V3.2.4 as @ZOS_GinaBruno said otherwise.
    "When the human race learns to read the language of symbolism, a great veil will fall from the eyes of men." ~Manly P. Hall
  • Chilly-McFreeze
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    Alpha-Lupi wrote: »
    You do know the wrath passive from heavy Armor is being removed & replaced with a new passive in clockwork city right?

    If you don't believe me, you can always refer to PTS patch V3.2.4 as @ZOS_GinaBruno said otherwise.

    Uh no, they dropped Wrath and splitted Rapid Mending.

    "Wrath: This passive ability has been replaced with the Revitalize passive, which increases the resources your Heavy Attacks restore by 12/25%.
    Rapid Mending: This passive ability no longer increases the amount of resources your Heavy Attacks restore, as that effect has been moved to the new Revitalize passive. It continues to increase your healing received by 4/8%."



    3.2.5 (live version of CWC)

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4585501/#Comment_4585501
  • TheMystid
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    ecru wrote: »
    no one will use medium armor until medium armor sets are better for dps than heavy armor sets

    dunno why zos doesn't seem to be able to grasp this

    Indeed. No clue why ZOS is happy with the fact that medium armor sets are more likely to be used by Heavy armor wearer as sustain sets (Werewolf Hide, Bone pirate etc.), appealing just because they come in Robust jewelery...
    PC EU

    Nostalgic StamDk
  • GreenSoup2HoT
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    You could nerf sets like Seventh and Fury and they'd just craft Hunding's or Clever in heavy, the issue isn't that heavy has far better sets but that medium is unappealing due to bad passives+block is a stronger and more consistent defense than dodge roll.

    dont forget that any time you try to sprint as a medium user, even though cheaper then light/heavy your disabling your most important resource in the process... stamina regen.

    its counterproductive to have such high stamina regen while at the same time be so heavily punished for sprinting due to no regen while sprinting.

    no sprint regen is one of the reasons stamina regen builds are terribly outclassed by what has been meta for a very long time (max stat stacking builds).

    In my opinion no sprint regen has completely ruined ALL medium armour playstyles. Stamblade cloaking doesnt really count since without cloak you'd be dead in 2 seconds. The only one who can manage well is the dark dealing sorc since magicka regen is never disabled which means stamina is on demand whenever a stamsorc needs it.

    its kind of like how there is no magicka classes using drinks because of lich/amberplasm/warlock. these sets are simply to strong.

    alot of the issues this game has is with sets which has been the cause for these harsh mechanic changes. yet the sets could of been dialed back.

    enginee guardian, blood spawn and malubeth in 1.6 was basically the reason for infinite sustain which caused all these dramatic blanket fixes in the first place.

    Edited by GreenSoup2HoT on October 23, 2017 5:36PM
    PS4 NA DC
  • xiZeroPointix
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    Medium armor needs help. Heavy armor should have damage stats..medium armor should have the wrath passive and a little more resistances. I dont like it when people want armor sets nerfed because they dont know how tobsurvive..L2P..medium armor passives are why people wear heavy..medium does not have enough resistances or damage.
  • Chilly-McFreeze
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    Medium armor needs help. Heavy armor should have damage stats..medium armor should have the wrath passive and a little more resistances. I dont like it when people want armor sets nerfed because they dont know how tobsurvive..L2P..medium armor passives are why people wear heavy..medium does not have enough resistances or damage.

    I beg to differ.

    Heavy Armor is designed to absorb damage and gain power through it. Constitution and Wrath fitted perfectly in this theme.

    Medium Armor is about avoiding damage totally via dodging, evasion and mobility. It therefore doesn't need more resistance. It needs other buffs. Stamina regen while sprinting and being able to actually dodge most skills.

    However, you are right when you say HA should have at least some dmg component in the passives. Simply dial back some heavy dmg sets or buff the MA dmg sets that demand an action to proc (like Briarhearth etc).
  • Ragnarock41
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    Go ahead, make yourself believe the lie that when you nerf fury and seventh all is gonna be fine lol.
    ''oh look guys I have 2 weapon damage proc sets and I can almost hit 5k weapon damage''
    Yeah.. You can get much more reliable dueling builds with sets like ravager.. alchemist etc..
    You can even go alchemist+seventh legion and have a much more scary dueling build.
    And unlike fury builds you have NO COUNTERPLAY vs alchemist. Its burst on demand, burst anytime you want.
    You don't need to eat 25 *** CRITS to make alchemist work.


    Anyways, 4k+ weapon damage setups are totally possible without any WD proc sets.

    This is my stats with my no longer used oldschool no procs Dk build.
    (yes I know It lacks impen. I nonger use it because battle roar no longer scales with your resources, so no point getting max stamina really.)
    GQwgT2x.png

    Front bar (keep in mind vMA no longer gives you weapon damage and no wrath so this would be a lot higher in old patch)
    GQwi2Hd.png


    So I can get to 4k WD without any weapon damage sets , without wrath, without the vMA bonus.
    My point is people use these sets over max stat sets because Dk no longer has any synergy with stamina, since the morrowind nerfs all the scaling this class have is completely gutted.

    I would gladly trade all the WD sets in this game to get my old battle roar back.
    Sadly thats not the case anymore. So, yeah.. better get used to it.

    PS: With all being said, I Do believe nerfing Fury to give less WD without any compensations will ruin the set for 1vX(Which was its main purpose) and make it garbage tier just like black rose. You guys remember what black rose became after your QQ posts right?
    It can be reworked to charge quicker, but give less weapon damage, but people will just use other sets instead, so in the end you will end up ruining another playstyle for essentially, nothing.


    Edited by Ragnarock41 on October 25, 2017 6:11AM
  • olsborg
    olsborg
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    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Theres a few heavy sets that do need a nerf. Fury, seventh legion and ravager amongst some of them.

    PC EU
    PvP only
  • Krayzie
    Krayzie
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    Go ahead, make yourself believe the lie that when you nerf fury and seventh all is gonna be fine lol.
    ''oh look guys I have 2 weapon damage proc sets and I can almost hit 5k weapon damage''
    Yeah.. You can get much more reliable dueling builds with sets like ravager.. alchemist etc..
    You can even go alchemist+seventh legion and have a much more scary dueling build.
    And unlike fury builds you have NO COUNTERPLAY vs alchemist. Its burst on demand, burst anytime you want.
    You don't need to eat 25 *** CRITS to make alchemist work.


    Anyways, 4k+ weapon damage setups are totally possible without any WD proc sets.

    This is my stats with my no longer used oldschool no procs Dk build.
    (yes I know It lacks impen. I nonger use it because battle roar no longer scales with your resources, so no point getting max stamina really.)
    GQwgT2x.png

    Front bar (keep in mind vMA no longer gives you weapon damage and no wrath so this would be a lot higher in old patch)
    GQwi2Hd.png


    So I can get to 4k WD without any weapon damage sets , without wrath, without the vMA bonus.
    My point is people use these sets over max stat sets because Dk no longer has any synergy with stamina, since the morrowind nerfs all the scaling this class have is completely gutted.

    I would gladly trade all the WD sets in this game to get my old battle roar back.
    Sadly thats not the case anymore. So, yeah.. better get used to it.

    PS: With all being said, I Do believe nerfing Fury to give less WD without any compensations will ruin the set for 1vX(Which was its main purpose) and make it garbage tier just like black rose. You guys remember what black rose became after your QQ posts right?
    It can be reworked to charge quicker, but give less weapon damage, but people will just use other sets instead, so in the end you will end up ruining another playstyle for essentially, nothing.


    do you have a suggestion
    I'm a PVE roleplayer concerned about my vampires stage 4 skin tone and keep getting load screens so I came here to distract people from major issues with a rant thread about my characters cosmetic appearance.
  • Drakkdjinn
    Drakkdjinn
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    No, they need to nerf the CP that allow these sets to proc their full potential whilst the user blocks for free and heals to full any from incoming damage. Re armor types, necessary and OP are two different things.

    Its not complicated, buff the alternative option(medium), and remove CP from PvP -- if you disagree with the latter then stfu with this QQ, if you're interested in a conversation about balance but don't include the one glaringly obvious element that makes an even playing field categorically impossible in PvP then you're not engaging in a conversation worth having.
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