(stamblade) What is your opinion on this statement:

Avran_Sylt

Stamblade is able to achieve solo single target numbers that are much higher than other stamina classes due to self-buffs. But falls to the wayside in group content, due to the lack of cleave damage and similar sustained target DPS when other classes have access to these buffs. This combined with a more complicated rotation as a result of buff management being inherit with class damage skills.

(Sourcing from: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4574311#Comment_4574311)

Ghettokid

(Orc) what is your opinion on this statement:
Orc.

AverageJo3Gam3r

Not sure what you mean. The BiS trials composition has a stamblade with war machine w/ incap spam. A stamplar could also fill that role but incap is much better than the aedric spear ult.

Azurya

read it and understand it.

Izaki

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

Not sure what you mean. The BiS trials composition has a stamblade with war machine w/ incap spam. A stamplar could also fill that role but incap is much better than the aedric spear ult.

Yeah, exactly, the only reason for a Stamblade to be in a raid is to spam Incap. DKs and Sorcs do more DPS and Templar offers utility not only through War Machine but also through PotL. Most Stamplars wear War Machine btw.

Danksta

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

Not sure what you mean. The BiS trials composition has a stamblade with war machine w/ incap spam. A stamplar could also fill that role but incap is much better than the aedric spear ult.

And Stamplar also brings PotL to the table and IIRC does higher single target damage, not to mention cleave damage.

As to the OP I'm not sure what you want me to say, it's not like this is anything new...

Azurya

Izaki wrote: »

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

Not sure what you mean. The BiS trials composition has a stamblade with war machine w/ incap spam. A stamplar could also fill that role but incap is much better than the aedric spear ult.

Yeah, exactly, the only reason for a Stamblade to be in a raid is to spam Incap. DKs and Sorcs do more DPS and Templar offers utility not only through War Machine but also through PotL. Most Stamplars wear War Machine btw.

so does my stammag, my stamblade, but I really like 2FS and VO more, but that I have only on one char BiS!

FakeFox

Eh...how about no?

Yes, stamina Nightblade stomps everything in self buffed DPS. But it's not weak in group contend. In four men dungeons I'd say Stamblade is one of if not the strongest build, due to it's insane burst in those short fights. For raids it's true that you lack some cleave DPS, however singletarget is what kills bosses, not cleave. And Stamblade still has good AOE, with 3 strong AOE dots and if you really need to just take steel tornado for AOE. The rotation is somewhat difficult, as it requires good weaving and reaction based play, however it's allows Stamblades to easily recover in mechanic heavy fights and gives huge flexibility, which can win you the DPS race when more static builds like StamDK suffer.

GrigorijMalahevich

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

Not sure what you mean. The BiS trials composition has a stamblade with war machine w/ incap spam. A stamplar could also fill that role but incap is much better than the aedric spear ult.

Don't forget that stamplar brings potl to the trial...

Asardes

Seems spot on. If you want to reach those numbers you need to proc Assasin's Scourge spectral bow pretty consistently you need a fast rotation, meaning you will need to mostly do light attacks. Which is not sustainable for longer fights unless you stack > 1.5K recovery, which means you have to decrease your weapon damage and/or maximum stamina, which in turns leads to lower damage overall. And the Major Fracture from surprise attack does not stack with the one from Pierce Armor applied by the tank, the Minor Berserk from Relentless Focus does not stack with that from Combat Prayer provided by the healer. That's why NB is strong solo or in groups that don't provide consistent bonuses (PvP, vMA, dungeons), but relatively weaker for group content: your own class buffs are replicated by others. The only unique NB buff for the group is minor savagery, so it brings relatively little to the group; and that can be provided by a Magicka NB, which also provides off-heals. So there's little reason to bring a Stamina NB in trials, instead of another DK, Templar or even Sorcerer.

Asmael

Depends on the content and the fight, and how good your group is as well. A group where the healers have trouble keeping Combat prayer up, either because they are not as experienced or because the mechanics make it almost impossible (conduits in HoF, Archcustodian, adds on Varlariel or the new trial - Asylum Sanctorium - with a few minibosses and the spheres in light of current tactics) will benefit more from having a stamblade than another class when it comes to single target DPS, in large part because they are shining specifically for those fights where you are not DPS'ing a static boss for 2mn straight.

Due to the nature of the old Craglorn trials and in big part MoL, stamblades are not the best pick, but the gap is extremely small and sometimes favor stamblades in HoF and the coming trial.

A final point is that stamblade are good with War Machine, but it also comes with the drawbacks that having too many can possibly mean a waste of a buff, as you'd give Major slayer to the healers or tanks. A bit like stamplars with PotL (there is a bug where one of the PotL will not deal damage beyond the inital hit when there are multiple stamplars).

Having low AoE / cleave damage isn't that much of an issue for organised groups - which is why stam DKs are used over stam sorcs or stam wardens. You only need enough AoE damage to get rid of problematic adds without ever having to focus them, which is done with the normal stamina package (caltrops / Hail) and the slightly larger cleave from magicka builds. For groups with lower overall group damage who often have to stop damaging the main boss to focus the adds, you may consider using a stamina warden (Sub. assault) or Stam sorc (Hurricane) for more cleave.

Nota: the difference in single target between all stamina classes remains small enough that there is no real reason to reroll from one to another in organized group PvE.

Avran_Sylt

@AverageJo3Gam3r @Danksta

Do you find this design to be a good place for StamNB? Are there aspects that you like/dislike about it? If you could, and reasonably, what would you add/change? Etc.

Avran_Sylt

@Asmael

Do you find the minimal difference in ST damage, but larger difference in AoE damage fine (in general)? Given that NB has quite the arsenal of self-buffs for solo content? (Trade-off)

Danksta

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@AverageJo3Gam3r @Danksta

Do you find this design to be a good place for StamNB? Are there aspects that you like/dislike about it? If you could, and reasonably, what would you add/change? Etc.

I honestly think stam NB is in a decent place. This game will never be perfectly balanced unless they made every class the same, but I think most of us would prefer each class to have it's own strengths and weaknesses. Right now, stam NB excels in vMA and in PvP, while still being allowed in trials just not in bulk like stam DKs. Granted, if they're going to be allowed in trials on even a semi-competitive team the player will have to be pretty good, but those same teams won't allow a similarly skilled player to come in on a melee magplar or mag DK.

AverageJo3Gam3r

@Avran_Sylt

Honestly, yes. I think that overall the balance in both PvE and PvP has been among the best metas we've had in a long time. All classes/specs are welcomed in PvE unless you're in a super sweaty try hard guild (except for magwarden, more on that in a minute). Every stam spec can do good ST damage and each brings a different tool to the table, either through more damage (stamDK), more cleave (stamsorc, stamden), utility (stamplar), or group buffs (stamnb). On the mag side, each spec brings utility, destro ults, and you need some amount of ranged dps just due to mechanics, so magicka is always welcomed.

Overall, I don't think major overhauls are needed. Just some tweaks:
-Buff molten whip damage bonus so it's once again the goto pve morph, so that MDKs don't add to off balance drain. Give mdks another sustain tool to make up for lack of flame lash procs
-I don't play magplar, but a few tweaks to magplars and mdks are in order so they don't get pushed out by stam melee. Possibly by making rangeplars viable?
-Buff bow/bow dps and survival so that ranged dps doesn't always mean magicka. Make archers end game viable and not a gimmick
-BUFF MAGDEN! Seriously. The state of the class at end game pve is terribad. Give birds a 10% damage increase against chilled targets, make winters reach an AoE execute and adjust the time to align with other DoTs (either 10 seconds or 18 seconds), and change the bond with nature passive to heal you AND the bear at the same time.
-Nerf the exploiter passive slightly. Right now it's so important to get high off balance up time that teams feel like they "must" take magsorcs. Start by reducing exploiter to an 8% damage increase.

NyassaV

I think stamblade would be in a beter place if siphoining attacks had an effect like Rally where it heals you at the end of the durration. Mind you it'd need to be a pretty crappy heal for balance reasons but it's better than the PoS skill it currently is (in comparison to what it used to be

KRBMMO

On my Imperial Stamblade I can kill Dremora in Imperial Sewers with (sneak)+(Buff) Crit Rush - Heavy - shadow for guaranteed crit - Wrecking blow - execute. Rarely a second execute.
So after buffing up, 5 button presses and 3 seconds and most things except bosses are dead.

But against mobs or sustained boss fights it's hard to keep the dps up unless I do a completely different build.

I wouldn't say "falls to the wayside" - A good Stamblade build can melt mobs it it's built for that.

FakeFox wrote: »

Eh...how about no?

Yes, stamina Nightblade stomps everything in self buffed DPS. But it's not weak in group contend. In four men dungeons I'd say Stamblade is one of if not the strongest build, due to it's insane burst in those short fights. For raids it's true that you lack some cleave DPS, however singletarget is what kills bosses, not cleave. And Stamblade still has good AOE, with 3 strong AOE dots and if you really need to just take steel tornado for AOE. The rotation is somewhat difficult, as it requires good weaving and reaction based play, however it's allows Stamblades to easily recover in mechanic heavy fights and gives huge flexibility, which can win you the DPS race when more static builds like StamDK suffer.

I agree with this - if you build SPECIFICALLY for Max single target DPS that's what you will get - especially from sneak. But it's also possible to build an AOE multipurpose slaughterhouse as well. What other class has guaranteed crit any time they want it? Buff - shadow - crit Plus they have a massive group damage mitigation ultimate in the shadow line that doesn't require channling like the Templar Regeneration ultimate does. And by the way NB can regenerate Ultimate like nothing else by just popping trash potions every 30 seconds whether you're in combat or not. A NB is always be able to start an encounter with an ultimate ready.

Asardes

Nobody min-maxes for the trash in Imperial sewers. When you said "boss" I thought you were talking about the big ones that patrol there and that have various mechanics, most of them one shot. I doubt those would die from such a quick combo since they are per par with dungeon bosses.