State of the Game: Nightblade Class (WIP - Iteration 1)

Avran_Sylt

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Abstract

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This specific Header Post will serve as a simplified aggregate of various opinions from the community about the current implementation of the Nightblade Class. It will look for consensus from a variety of sources about different aspects of the Nightblade Class. What is good, what is bad, what could use some improvement.

All discussion in this thread should be about Nightblades, and it would be appreciated if a TL:DR would be included at the top of any lengthy posts, to serve as a perspective while reading the document, as well as to serve as a basic discussion point.

This initial post will function as a living document, being subject to change and being updated as time passes. There will not be any reposts of this initial post, and any update will be indicated by an update post (a bump, essentially). This Header Post will try to update every week on Sundays. pulling from various sources. While in its WIP state it may receive updates in random fashion (based on my schedule)

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Nightblade Class

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Healing

General Consensus:
Magblade healers are unique in that they function more with damaging the enemy in order to heal your allies with their class abilities. They don't have access to a large instant heal but instead focus more on HoTs for healing through Refreshing Path and the new Agony (Malevolent Offering) and Sap Essence, which necessitates you being in the midst of enemies, taking advantage of your Twisting Path while you heal and are damaged via Malevolent Offering. They have significant Ult gain through the use of potions and the occasional use of shadow skills, which themselves buff the healers defenses via shadow barrier.

Stamblade healers: lol.
Various Opinions:

Tanking

General Consensus:
Stamina Nightblade tanks have a good amount of self-protection from the form of Bolstering Darkness, a little resource management from Siphoning strikes, good healing options that can also buff your defenses, and have little form of useful on demand AoE crowd control outside of ultimates.

Magicka Nightblade Tanks have access to several strong self-heals and healing buffs: Sap Essence, Swallow Soul, Refreshing Path, Siphoning Attacks, Soul Tether. All of which heal the player and damage the enemy. It comes to a point that in smaller group content these tanks don't have to worry too much about blocking, as the damage they take is easily replaced by the various HoTs and spammable attacks. Allowing them to function as an off-DPS (or an actual DPS given the ease of content) who can hold the aggro of enemies easily by being the largest threat to nearby enemies. This style of play falls off in end-game content, as the incoming damage is usually high enough to burst through the available heals.
Various Opinions:

Damage Dealing

General Consensus:
Stamblade is able to achieve solo single target numbers that are much higher than other stamina classes due to self-buffs. But falls to the wayside in group content, due to the lack of cleave damage and similar sustained target DPS when other classes have access to these buffs. This combined with a more complicated rotation as a result of buff management being inherint with class damage skills. ^Link

Magblade is able to keep a ranged distance but doesn't have as much instant burst damage in comparison to a stamblade. The main spammable skill it uses has the additional effect of healing the magblade or a nearby ally (as Concealed weapon doesn't see much use as a spammable). It is able to keep cloak up much more than a stamblade, and makes for an even more elusive target, especially so with cripple, and can make great use of the spectral bow while at range. It is a little less robust in comparison to a stamblade in terms of taking large amounts of damage in an instant, as the main spammable is not in the shadow skill tree, but rather the siphoning skill tree.

Both classes have skills that allow them to traverse the battlefield in an unpredictable manner
Various Opinions:

Avran_Sylt

Basics for each section added. I hope y'all can give feedback about these generalizations.

Lord Xanhorn

In my opinion magicka tanks are much more effective than stam tanks.

Avran_Sylt

@Lord Xanhorn

What makes you say that? What about MagNB Tanks do you like?

kaithuzar

You could likely fill this out with information & people's opinions based on previous lengthy forum threads.

Avran_Sylt

kaithuzar wrote: »

You could likely fill this out with information & people's opinions based on previous lengthy forum threads.

Yep, hence the WIP tag in the title. Currently out of town so don't have access to my home computer, which is why for now it's serving just as a template. Discuss and critique as you will with what is shown currently.

NyassaV

There is a lack of magicka under the damage dealing

Zbigb4life

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

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Abstract

---

This specific Header Post will serve as a simplified aggregate of various opinions from the community about the current implementation of the Nightblade Class. It will look for consensus from a variety of sources about different aspects of the Nightblade Class. What is good, what is bad, what could use some improvement.

All discussion in this thread should be about Nightblades, and it would be appreciated if a TL:DR would be included at the top of any lengthy posts, to serve as a perspective while reading the document, as well as to serve as a basic discussion point.

This initial post will function as a living document, being subject to change and being updated as time passes. There will not be any reposts of this initial post, and any update will be indicated by an update post (a bump, essentially). This Header Post will try to update every week on Sundays. pulling from various sources. While in its WIP state it may receive updates in random fashion (based on my schedule)

---

Nightblade Class

---

Healing

General Consensus:
Magblade healers are unique in that they function more with damaging the enemy in order to heal your allies with their class abilities. They don't have access to a large instant heal but instead focus more on HoTs for healing through Refreshing Path and the new Agony (Malevolent Offering) and Sap Essence, which necessitates you being in the midst of enemies, taking advantage of your Twisting Path while you heal and are damaged via Malevolent Offering. They have significant Ult gain through the use of potions and the occasional use of shadow skills, which themselves buff the healers defenses via shadow barrier.
Various Opinions:

Tanking

General Consensus:
Stamina Nightblade tanks have a good amount of self-protection from the form of Bolstering Darkness, a little resource management from Siphoning strikes, good healing options that can also buff your defenses, and have little form of useful on demand AoE crowd control outside of ultimates.
Various Opinions:

Damage Dealing

General Consensus:
Stamblade is able to achieve solo single target numbers that are much higher than other stamina classes due to self-buffs. But falls to the wayside in group content, due to the lack of cleave damage and similar sustained target DPS when other classes have access to these buffs. This combined with a more complicated rotation as a result of buff management being inherint with class damage skills. ^Link

Various Opinions:

So what you want stamblade to be able to deal massive damage to single targets AND to mobs... Hell no

Maryal

Sap tanks are not stamblades, and Sap Tanks are the type of tanks NBs are known for. Not that a stamblade couldn't 'tank' with a SnB + heavy armor, but when I think of a NB tank, I think of Sap Tank which is magica based.

Bolstering darkness would be a rather crappy skill for a tank. You can be "tanky" for the duration of the ultimate, but it is not a tank skill.

Now, for the folks out there who are interested in using the new agony skill to heal an ally .. you may wish to consider putting bolstering darkness your back bar for the 15 seconds of 60% damage reduction it offers the caster.

It occurred to me that if two NBs were in close proximity to one another, and for some reason NB#1 cast Malevolent Offering (or whatever it's called) on NB#2, and immediately thereafter NB #2 pops Bolstering Darkness, would NB#1 be low enough health to activate the bolstering darkness synergy for the burst heal?
OR
NB #1 and NB#2 are standing next to each other. NB #2 casts Bolstering Darkness, THEN NB#1 casts Malevolent Offering (to heal NB #2) ... could NB #1 then enact the Bolstering Darkness synergy to burst heal himself/herself?

Kind of an amusing thought .. a curiosity more than anything else.

With regard to DD ... Stamblades are fine as damage dealers up through 4 man dungeons. The problem is at end-game trial level content. Most people doing trials are very competitive and before Morrowind, Stamblades had something to offer, something of value in the eyes of people who do this type of content. Unfortunately, ZOS broke the laws of equivalent exchange during Morrowind ... they took something of value from Stamblades without giving back something of equivalent value, so to speak ... there was no 'equivalent exchange.' Without something in our tool-kit of sufficient value to offer competitive trial groups,, we don't 'fit in.'

gabormezo

I have some golded-out chars for PvP, and I have to say playing my stamblade is the most fun. I mean it is almost an Overwatch level of fun. You get decent number of kills, and don't die for hours even in Vivec prime time. I decided to level up a magblade, to see how she will compare.

Eh ... Please ignore the above, and don't nerf nightblades. Nerf sorcs.

Avran_Sylt

Maryal wrote: »

Sap tanks are not stamblades, and Sap Tanks are the type of tanks NBs are known for. Not that a stamblade couldn't 'tank' with a SnB + heavy armor, but when I think of a NB tank, I think of Sap Tank which is magica based.

Bolstering darkness would be a rather crappy skill for a tank. You can be "tanky" for the duration of the ultimate, but it is not a tank skill.

Now, for the folks out there who are interested in using the new agony skill to heal an ally .. you may wish to consider putting bolstering darkness your back bar for the 15 seconds of 60% damage reduction it offers the caster.

It occurred to me that if two NBs were in close proximity to one another, and for some reason NB#1 cast Malevolent Offering (or whatever it's called) on NB#2, and immediately thereafter NB #2 pops Bolstering Darkness, would NB#1 be low enough health to activate the bolstering darkness synergy for the burst heal?
OR
NB #1 and NB#2 are standing next to each other. NB #2 casts Bolstering Darkness, THEN NB#1 casts Malevolent Offering (to heal NB #2) ... could NB #1 then enact the Bolstering Darkness synergy to burst heal himself/herself?

Kind of an amusing thought .. a curiosity more than anything else.

With regard to DD ... Stamblades are fine as damage dealers up through 4 man dungeons. The problem is at end-game trial level content. Most people doing trials are very competitive and before Morrowind, Stamblades had something to offer, something of value in the eyes of people who do this type of content. Unfortunately, ZOS broke the laws of equivalent exchange during Morrowind ... they took something of value from Stamblades without giving back something of equivalent value, so to speak ... there was no 'equivalent exchange.' Without something in our tool-kit of sufficient value to offer competitive trial groups,, we don't 'fit in.'

Would you be able to elaborate on the sap tank play style?

Lord Xanhorn

My MagNB tank looks something like this

http://www.esohead.com/calculator/skills#1.mcVzytzzVvf9M8fXGb8fXGH8IPU48If0n8GFlO8IPwB8IPSd8IPbk8IPfw8GFts8A4fM8A4ub8y7GLR3r6rR3f8C7DLzqa6rzqb6Nzqu6MGFWc6MGFWi6MGFWA6MGFWn8D7DmzdM6Lzds6MIsaM6MIrv36MIrEf6MIrEh8F7JLzrJ6rzrK6LzrO6rbuy6Lbux6Lbut8O7arkP6LdeB8zR7zzEwXB8zf7zzNbo8zu7zzHfYE6zHfZd8zG7zzHQ3F8zI7zzJIoX6zJIkL8zN7zzJZcY8zA7zzKpUN8zL7zzK4EX

Bar 1 is buffs and taunt...more defensive and Bar 2 is high dps and lots of self healing.

Magicka NB tanks can output tons of DPS, self heals, and resource management with very little need to block. And with such high AOE dmg, usually you can gather up all the trash and hold agro a bit since you can charge in and get the first hits in.

This works amazing in everything except vet trials.

Avran_Sylt

@Lord_Xanhorn

Would you agree with this statement?

Magicka Nightblade Tanks have access to several strong self-heals and healing buffs: Sap Essence, Swallow Soul, Refreshing Path, Siphoning Attacks, Soul Tether. All of which heal the player and damage the enemy. It comes to a point that in smaller group content these tanks don't have to worry too much about blocking, as the damage they take is easily replaced by the various HoTs and spammable attacks. Allowing them to function as an off-DPS (or an actual DPS given the ease of content) who can hold the aggro of enemies easily by being the largest threat to nearby enemies. This style of play falls off in end-game content, as the incoming damage is usually high enough to burst through the available heals.