Will you use Crystal Blast now that Frags has no CC?

SirMewser

No

I suggested a debuff to be applied to make the morph selection differ from; a single target debuff or AoE debuff.
That would lessen the unwanted cast time because what you do next could make it worth it.

Gutting out the stun for nothing isn't going to make the other morph suddenly more useful.

Elsonso

No

As it stands today on Live, the main reason to get Crystal Shard is the CC. The cast time is not worth it for the damage. Remove the CC and there isn't a compelling reason to slot Crystal Shard, except to progress in Dark Magic, or to get a Crystal Shard morph.

For me, the reason for the stun on Crystal Shard is the ranged interrupt. Stop archers or casters at a distance, or stop a melee running at you.

By the time I can morph Crystal Shard and have the choice of Blast or Frags, I am probably getting close to Crushing Shock. This means Frags for the instant cast.

The real question is whether to spend an early skill point and slot on Dark Magic just for an instant cast Crystal Frags.

A larger question is what does it mean to Sorcerer to lose the ability to interrupt other spell casters early in the game.

Sigma957

No

No I will still use frags for it's higher damage and the chance to proc the insta cast ability.

pieratsos

No

Its ok they will just keep buffing crystal blast untill it becomes broken. sort of like pets

Wreuntzylla

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

To be fair, Crystal Blast is the most effective sorcerer skill in a 30v3.

To get the 30 killed ._.

<sigh>

Joy is right.

Zergrballers depend on heals and ignore their active defenses.

But even setting those aside, why do people keep think it needs to be cast on a player or can be dodged? Or blocked?

After testing crystal blast on live this weekend, on a dunmer crafting mule wearing L45 julianos... I can't freaking wait. I am going to force my buddies into rolling high elf sorcs and start a guild called Anchors and Tears. Just need someone to confirm its an actual AoE stun. Ranged bombing, no negate needed.

Just to make it clear to those that don't get it, NPCs, engine guardian, sorc atronach, warden bear, pack leader... everything that typically gets in the way of targeting... all anchors. No chance of dodge, reflect, block, and the AoE portion doesn't care.

The Stun component is single target, only the damage is AoE - and the AoE portion is lower than the main dmg. Your plan wont work.

That's the way it is currently on live...

HoloYoitsu

No

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

To be fair, Crystal Blast is the most effective sorcerer skill in a 30v3.

To get the 30 killed ._.

<sigh>

Joy is right.

Zergrballers depend on heals and ignore their active defenses.

But even setting those aside, why do people keep think it needs to be cast on a player or can be dodged? Or blocked?

After testing crystal blast on live this weekend, on a dunmer crafting mule wearing L45 julianos... I can't freaking wait. I am going to force my buddies into rolling high elf sorcs and start a guild called Anchors and Tears. Just need someone to confirm its an actual AoE stun. Ranged bombing, no negate needed.

Just to make it clear to those that don't get it, NPCs, engine guardian, sorc atronach, warden bear, pack leader... everything that typically gets in the way of targeting... all anchors. No chance of dodge, reflect, block, and the AoE portion doesn't care.

The Stun component is single target, only the damage is AoE - and the AoE portion is lower than the main dmg. Your plan wont work.

That's the way it is currently on live...

Also the way it currently is on PTS.

feyii

No

I always used frags for the instant cast and higher damage, never for the stun.

Derra

No

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert can you please make the people responsible for this change read this poll?

I think what´s being said here critical for understanding the playerbase or for any future attempts to balancing.

It won´t work.

People will not use a morph they perceive as useless even if you make the alternative less desireable. The only outcome this can have is that you make both undesireable - and nobody slots both morphs anymore.

Fuxo

No

No. It could be considered a buff only if templars got it, lol.

Azurya

No

and the next thing they screwed...........

what more to come????

Wreuntzylla

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

To be fair, Crystal Blast is the most effective sorcerer skill in a 30v3.

To get the 30 killed ._.

<sigh>

Joy is right.

Zergrballers depend on heals and ignore their active defenses.

But even setting those aside, why do people keep think it needs to be cast on a player or can be dodged? Or blocked?

After testing crystal blast on live this weekend, on a dunmer crafting mule wearing L45 julianos... I can't freaking wait. I am going to force my buddies into rolling high elf sorcs and start a guild called Anchors and Tears. Just need someone to confirm its an actual AoE stun. Ranged bombing, no negate needed.

Just to make it clear to those that don't get it, NPCs, engine guardian, sorc atronach, warden bear, pack leader... everything that typically gets in the way of targeting... all anchors. No chance of dodge, reflect, block, and the AoE portion doesn't care.

The Stun component is single target, only the damage is AoE - and the AoE portion is lower than the main dmg. Your plan wont work.

That's the way it is currently on live...

Also the way it currently is on PTS.

Ah, misreported in general forums. There goes my AoE stun plan .

I see they buffed splash damage by 25%.

So I swapped gear from my warden to my Dunmer, which is necropotence and shacklebreaker. Despite that race typically being populated by simpletons, in Vivec on live, crystal blast delves as 16k single target with 9300 splash, before weapon bump to weapon power from enchant. Currently, I am using a flame staff but would think lightning staff would close the gap a bit more. If after the patch it delves 16k/14k, is there a better direct damage AoE in the game?

Beardimus

No

Shame all the yes votes were mistakes i scrolled down here to read the trolls justifications!!

Vapirko

Beardimus wrote: »

And they say Sorcs don't get nerfed huh?

Where's that moany crew now.....

Lol. It amazes me how mag sorcs are in their own world. Every other class has been beaten into the ground with nerfs. Sorcs get one change to one of the strongest skill in pvp and they act like this. I’ve actually seen a mag sorc compare frags to dragon leap to say frags shouldn’t be nerfed because DKs have such a strong single target LOL.

olsborg

No

Cast time abilities hardly works in pve (trying to be positive here) and certainly does not even have a place in average+ level of pvp.

Mayrael

No

Cast time, interuptable, dodgeable, reflectable, blockable, slow projectile, high cost detected by THE ADDON - sure its made to use it in PvP!:)

newtinmpls

No

but then I'm not using it now; and most of my characters are sorcs.

Blast - takes too long
Frags - too hard to see the "tell"

Bashev

No

If ZoS wants somebody to use Crystal Blast, they have to make it able to proc as instant cast skill as Crystal shard, then stun the target and add AoE damage but no longer increased damage and make it 8m range. Risk vs reward.

ToRelax

No

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

To be fair, Crystal Blast is the most effective sorcerer skill in a 30v3.

To get the 30 killed ._.

<sigh>

Joy is right.

Zergrballers depend on heals and ignore their active defenses.

But even setting those aside, why do people keep think it needs to be cast on a player or can be dodged? Or blocked?

After testing crystal blast on live this weekend, on a dunmer crafting mule wearing L45 julianos... I can't freaking wait. I am going to force my buddies into rolling high elf sorcs and start a guild called Anchors and Tears. Just need someone to confirm its an actual AoE stun. Ranged bombing, no negate needed.

Just to make it clear to those that don't get it, NPCs, engine guardian, sorc atronach, warden bear, pack leader... everything that typically gets in the way of targeting... all anchors. No chance of dodge, reflect, block, and the AoE portion doesn't care.

The Stun component is single target, only the damage is AoE - and the AoE portion is lower than the main dmg. Your plan wont work.

That's the way it is currently on live...

Also the way it currently is on PTS.

Ah, misreported in general forums. There goes my AoE stun plan .

I see they buffed splash damage by 25%.

So I swapped gear from my warden to my Dunmer, which is necropotence and shacklebreaker. Despite that race typically being populated by simpletons, in Vivec on live, crystal blast delves as 16k single target with 9300 splash, before weapon bump to weapon power from enchant. Currently, I am using a flame staff but would think lightning staff would close the gap a bit more. If after the patch it delves 16k/14k, is there a better direct damage AoE in the game?

You get a roughly similar AoE with Lightning Clench. It only stuns the main target as well and has lower range, but is instant cast and much cheaper. But try things on PTS before you invest in new builds...

Edit: Talking about Master Staff here. No idea how I forgot to mention that...

Asardes

No

I will simply replace it with another skill. Clench/Reach or Volcanic Rune depending on context. I used Volcanic Rune->Ice Comet combo during sieges and got quite some AP from it

Asardes

No

Asmael wrote: »

Even if you remove C.Frag entirely, I still wouldn't use Crystal blast.

Yea, heavy attack does more damage both single target and AoE, has about the same cast time, and gives you resources back instead of consuming them. Even in PvP it's not hard to channel a lightning one. In PvE there's simply no contest. After the nerf to Crystal Frag skill damage last patch it has become practically useless. Eh, another 2 skill points I'll recover at the next discounted skill reset ...

Micah_Bayer

No

Vapirko wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

And they say Sorcs don't get nerfed huh?

Where's that moany crew now.....

Lol. It amazes me how mag sorcs are in their own world. Every other class has been beaten into the ground with nerfs. Sorcs get one change to one of the strongest skill in pvp and they act like this. I’ve actually seen a mag sorc compare frags to dragon leap to say frags shouldn’t be nerfed because DKs have such a strong single target LOL.

Specs have 2 direct single target dmg in their entire arsenal. CURSE and frags. The other classes have double that or even more.

Aedaryl

No

The problem is the cast time :

The only way to use a short cast time ability like crystal blast is to stun the ennemy before, because every build with a gap closer or streak will port to you and interupt you : You will lost an additional few 0.2s, you will also be off balance for 4s, that's mean you take 10% more damage 'for 4s, and the ennemy can use an heavy attack to consume off balance meaning the heavy attack will make 70% more damage (+ 10% from exploiter).


Being interrupted mean you will be extremely punished. Since you need a stun to have a chance to not be interrupted, there is no reason to choose crystal blast for the stun.

In PvE, 1s cast time is a terrible lost of DPS, and you don't want to stun your ennemies, because you want to pack mobs.

Now, just think about the longest cast time of this game : 1.5s to recast pets. This cast time is so long than even a streak stuniing your ennemy isn't enough to recast the pet : ennemy have time to break the stun, then gap close/ streak to you, then interrupt you. Now just think about off balance effect and then, you can understand why cast times are a terrible.

DDuke

So I just checked something:

Dark Flare (0,1s longer cast time, but doesn't matter) deals 20.362% more damage as per tooltip than Crystal Blast.

Dark Flare also grants Major Empower for the follow up Javelin (sorcs don't have similar good instant cast follow up from class skills atleast) and puts Major Defile on target & nearby enemies.

Crystal Blast deals AoE damage.


@ZOS_Wrobel is there a reason why Crystal Blast (Blast only, not the instant cast Frags!!!) can't atleast deal same base damage as Dark Flare? I think that would be a reasonable change.

Derra

No

DDuke wrote: »

So I just checked something:

Dark Flare (0,1s longer cast time, but doesn't matter) deals 20.362% more damage as per tooltip than Crystal Blast.

Dark Flare also grants Major Empower for the follow up Javelin (sorcs don't have similar good instant cast follow up from class skills atleast) and puts Major Defile on target & nearby enemies.

Crystal Blast deals AoE damage.


@ZOS_Wrobel is there a reason why Crystal Blast (Blast only, not the instant cast Frags!!!) can't atleast deal same base damage as Dark Flare? I think that would be a reasonable change.

What´s the cost difference between the two?

Bashev

No

Derra wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

So I just checked something:

Dark Flare (0,1s longer cast time, but doesn't matter) deals 20.362% more damage as per tooltip than Crystal Blast.

Dark Flare also grants Major Empower for the follow up Javelin (sorcs don't have similar good instant cast follow up from class skills atleast) and puts Major Defile on target & nearby enemies.

Crystal Blast deals AoE damage.


@ZOS_Wrobel is there a reason why Crystal Blast (Blast only, not the instant cast Frags!!!) can't atleast deal same base damage as Dark Flare? I think that would be a reasonable change.

What´s the cost difference between the two?

Dark flare is 25% cheaper.

danno8

No

DDuke wrote: »

So I just checked something:

Dark Flare (0,1s longer cast time, but doesn't matter) deals 20.362% more damage as per tooltip than Crystal Blast.

Dark Flare also grants Major Empower for the follow up Javelin (sorcs don't have similar good instant cast follow up from class skills atleast) and puts Major Defile on target & nearby enemies.

Crystal Blast deals AoE damage.


@ZOS_Wrobel is there a reason why Crystal Blast (Blast only, not the instant cast Frags!!!) can't atleast deal same base damage as Dark Flare? I think that would be a reasonable change.

If you thought landing a hard casted Crystal whatever was tough, try landing a hard casted Dark Flare with it's huge arcing projectile.

Also, you are comparing Templar and Sorc in a bubble here. The only thing you are likely to accomplish is them moving the extra damage from frags to blast, or getting Dark Flare nerffed.

DDuke

Derra wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

So I just checked something:

Dark Flare (0,1s longer cast time, but doesn't matter) deals 20.362% more damage as per tooltip than Crystal Blast.

Dark Flare also grants Major Empower for the follow up Javelin (sorcs don't have similar good instant cast follow up from class skills atleast) and puts Major Defile on target & nearby enemies.

Crystal Blast deals AoE damage.


@ZOS_Wrobel is there a reason why Crystal Blast (Blast only, not the instant cast Frags!!!) can't atleast deal same base damage as Dark Flare? I think that would be a reasonable change.

What´s the cost difference between the two?

Base costs (to which all passives & set bonus modifiers apply):
Crystal Blast 4050 Magicka
Dark Flare 3240 Magicka

ToRelax

No

danno8 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

So I just checked something:

Dark Flare (0,1s longer cast time, but doesn't matter) deals 20.362% more damage as per tooltip than Crystal Blast.

Dark Flare also grants Major Empower for the follow up Javelin (sorcs don't have similar good instant cast follow up from class skills atleast) and puts Major Defile on target & nearby enemies.

Crystal Blast deals AoE damage.


@ZOS_Wrobel is there a reason why Crystal Blast (Blast only, not the instant cast Frags!!!) can't atleast deal same base damage as Dark Flare? I think that would be a reasonable change.

If you thought landing a hard casted Crystal whatever was tough, try landing a hard casted Dark Flare with it's huge arcing projectile.

Also, you are comparing Templar and Sorc in a bubble here. The only thing you are likely to accomplish is them moving the extra damage from frags to blast, or getting Dark Flare nerffed.

Did you actually try landing Crystal Blast... ?

DDuke

danno8 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

So I just checked something:

Dark Flare (0,1s longer cast time, but doesn't matter) deals 20.362% more damage as per tooltip than Crystal Blast.

Dark Flare also grants Major Empower for the follow up Javelin (sorcs don't have similar good instant cast follow up from class skills atleast) and puts Major Defile on target & nearby enemies.

Crystal Blast deals AoE damage.


@ZOS_Wrobel is there a reason why Crystal Blast (Blast only, not the instant cast Frags!!!) can't atleast deal same base damage as Dark Flare? I think that would be a reasonable change.

If you thought landing a hard casted Crystal whatever was tough, try landing a hard casted Dark Flare with it's huge arcing projectile.

Also, you are comparing Templar and Sorc in a bubble here. The only thing you are likely to accomplish is them moving the extra damage from frags to blast, or getting Dark Flare nerffed.

Well, there's always that risk I suppose lol


If Crystal Blast dealt damage similar to Flare, I could imagine people trying out things like Crystal Blast->(Master Weapon) Flame Clench or Crystal Blast+(Asylum)Crushing Shock etc.

In other words, more build variety for sorcs.


Also, close range Dark Flare+Jav isn't that easy to dodge (without cheat addons) btw - mostly because of the Jav being a very quick projectile.

Anyway, useless to discuss anything regarding cast time abilities as long as Miat's bullsh*t is in the game.

Asardes

No

DDuke wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

So I just checked something:

Dark Flare (0,1s longer cast time, but doesn't matter) deals 20.362% more damage as per tooltip than Crystal Blast.

Dark Flare also grants Major Empower for the follow up Javelin (sorcs don't have similar good instant cast follow up from class skills atleast) and puts Major Defile on target & nearby enemies.

Crystal Blast deals AoE damage.


@ZOS_Wrobel is there a reason why Crystal Blast (Blast only, not the instant cast Frags!!!) can't atleast deal same base damage as Dark Flare? I think that would be a reasonable change.

What´s the cost difference between the two?

Base costs (to which all passives & set bonus modifiers apply):
Crystal Blast 4050 Magicka
Dark Flare 3240 Magicka

Actually the difference is slightly smaller due to class passives:
Crystal Blast: 4050 becomes in fact 3850 due to the Unholy Knowledge
Dark Flare: 3240 becomes 3110 due to Restoring Spirit