Only two more patches to reverse the Battlegrounds change... PLEASE ZOS

React

Battlegrounds is going to be completley ruined if it becomes Cp enabled. As it stands right now, while some people can become near unkillable in a group of four, for the most part EVERYBODY can be drained of resources in no Cp with proper pressure and coordination. It is VITAL for battlegrounds to remain no-Cp because even a group of relatively low skill with a good composition will be able to become unkillable, and will sustain forever. This will be a massive detriment to gamemodes like domination and chaos ball, creating groups that can endlessly camp flags and hold the ball for 350+ points in one life. Deathmatches will rarely even reach 500 points with the massive amounts of healing a mitigation, and it will be possible to hold two relics while "farming" the other teams in capture the relic, indefinitely. I urge zos and the community to reevaluate this change, as battlegrounds already suffers from a low population (XB NA) and I fear it will completley die off when players realize that they cannot kill the majority of tanky setups people run in Cp enabled pvp. Everyone I have played with in bgs unanimously agrees that Cp will be the death of it.

Waffennacht

The thing is, like you said, current players want to keep it no CP, I bet ZoS figures more players will join with CP enabled.

Imo, whatever has the higher population is the better choice, only time will tell

Turelus

Waffennacht wrote: »

The thing is, like you said, current players want to keep it no CP, I bet ZoS figures more players will join with CP enabled.

Imo, whatever has the higher population is the better choice, only time will tell

Or you know, just offer both and make it a separate DLC purchase outside of Morrowind.

Waffennacht

Turelus wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

The thing is, like you said, current players want to keep it no CP, I bet ZoS figures more players will join with CP enabled.

Imo, whatever has the higher population is the better choice, only time will tell

Or you know, just offer both and make it a separate DLC purchase outside of Morrowind.

Or free... I agree... I want everyone to have access, but that's me

Alpheu5

Waffennacht wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

The thing is, like you said, current players want to keep it no CP, I bet ZoS figures more players will join with CP enabled.

Imo, whatever has the higher population is the better choice, only time will tell

Or you know, just offer both and make it a separate DLC purchase outside of Morrowind.

Or free... I agree... I want everyone to have access, but that's me

Something something paid for it already, something something want money back.

*Frothing noises*

Waffennacht

Alpheu5 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

The thing is, like you said, current players want to keep it no CP, I bet ZoS figures more players will join with CP enabled.

Imo, whatever has the higher population is the better choice, only time will tell

Or you know, just offer both and make it a separate DLC purchase outside of Morrowind.

Or free... I agree... I want everyone to have access, but that's me

Something something paid for it already, something something want money back.

*Frothing noises*

I also paid, but we lose more by it dying than by making it free. I seriously can't get in at 2 a.m. not enough players

Brutusmax1mus

The only issue with cp is perma blocking. Still can't believe this game lets you do anything offensive, besides 1h n shield skills, while holding block.

Cinbri

I hate CP, but... bgs became so depopulated that any way to revitilze it is welcomed.

Beardimus

I agree that adding CP seems dumb, will break the flow of the game. Sure when BG dropped people whined about no-CP. But anyone actually interested in BG has by now adapsted a Non-CP setup and got on with it

I seriously doubt a population rise with CP.

BUT i also agree Pop needs to rise, so whatever helps that is a good thing. Personally i think having a pre made and solo queue a bigger deal. Pugs getting trounced by the same 4 guys repeatedly (Xbox EU) gets dull for new players to BG and experienced alike.

Juhasow

Turelus wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

The thing is, like you said, current players want to keep it no CP, I bet ZoS figures more players will join with CP enabled.

Imo, whatever has the higher population is the better choice, only time will tell

Or you know, just offer both and make it a separate DLC purchase outside of Morrowind.

That's the problem here because they cannot make it free since there are people that already paid for it and it would be really unpleasant supprise to know that You've paid for something everyone gets free few months later , it's too early for that I think. That would be also stab in the back for PvE players since they have to pay for every new PvE related DLC content. Splitting it into CP and No CP will also split the people so BG's could become even less populated.

At this point making BG's CP enabled is the only reasonable solution and lets be honest BG's are dying so without any changes end would be near.

ak_pvp

CP adds the lovely addition of stronger permablocking and permashielding. Damage and the like is often the same with the trees countering out. But the statfest that CP is now it is never going to work.

Minno

Cinbri wrote: »

I hate CP, but... bgs became so depopulated that any way to revitilze it is welcomed.

It was a double wall:
- locked behind expensive chapter.
- locked behind nCP.

If it was free, like undaunted pledges are, you'd see more players joining in. But for the most part, PvP has too much of a learning curve and players don't like hard content with pay wall restrictions.

Juhasow

Minno wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

I hate CP, but... bgs became so depopulated that any way to revitilze it is welcomed.

It was a double wall:
- locked behind expensive chapter.
- locked behind nCP.

If it was free, like undaunted pledges are, you'd see more players joining in. But for the most part, PvP has too much of a learning curve and players don't like hard content with pay wall restrictions.

Morrowind price atm is around 15$ sooo...

Minno

Juhasow wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

I hate CP, but... bgs became so depopulated that any way to revitilze it is welcomed.

It was a double wall:
- locked behind expensive chapter.
- locked behind nCP.

If it was free, like undaunted pledges are, you'd see more players joining in. But for the most part, PvP has too much of a learning curve and players don't like hard content with pay wall restrictions.

Morrowind price atm is around 15$ sooo...

Would you pay 15$ for one game mode that only has a handful of maps and as soon as you join you are faced with a pre-made group that distroys you?

Even if that's the lowest price, some players paid full price. And while those players might have joined a BG, pre-made groups made their Mark; you are seeing months of organized groups eat up the pop that was willing to try BGs.

ak_pvp

Honestly, I'd advocate to undo ALL the combat changes they did this patch. Its just shite tbh. Sure NB and warden tweaks was nice and the updated main effects for some DSA/vma weapons are good. But the *** with what they have now, making vma 2h useless, gimping DK to 8m, inane siphoner changes etc isn't worth it.

Rohaus

I have said it before and I will say it again... I don’t give a flying pan handle if ZOS all of a sudden gave Battlegrounds away for free... I’d rather have a large pool of players to play against than whine about how I paid for it and the free loaders didn’t...

Battlegrounds are pretty lame right now due to seeing the same turds over and over.

Sixty5

I remember during the IC event awhile back there was a DK tank sitting outside the sewers. There were 9 or so people attacking him, and yet he didn't die.
I joined in along with a couple of others, and eventually brought him down.
Later on in the city we ran into a couple more tanks who our small group of 4 simply couldn't kill.

CP makes unkillable tanks more unkillable, and if the right spec takes 12 people to bring them down, then that means that in a situation where there are only 8 enemies, well then you have a problem.

Anyone who plays battlegrounds will tell you that going up against a team with a tank in chaosball is about the least fun thing imaginable (actually that might just be chaosball in general)

The only upside of CP battlegrounds is more new players, but remember those new players will either be your typical cyrodil zerglings, or ones that rely on the crutch of cp. And while it is fun having those people on the other team, more often than not, you'll have them on yours.

Non-cp battlegrounds play really well as they are, and I really hope they don't change that.

TheYKcid

Sixty5 wrote: »

Anyone who plays battlegrounds will tell you that going up against a team with a tank in chaosball is about the least fun thing imaginable (actually that might just be chaosball in general)

Nailed it.

Baconlad

Ok...how many players do you guys accually think you will run across that are invulnerable tanks? The thought that its going to be riuned is ludicrous. Sure there will be trolls and maybe even whole teams of trolls...but ultimately your not going to find that many of them.

React

Baconlad wrote: »

Ok...how many players do you guys accually think you will run across that are invulnerable tanks? The thought that its going to be riuned is ludicrous. Sure there will be trolls and maybe even whole teams of trolls...but ultimately your not going to find that many of them.

Do you know how easy it is to become an unkillable infinitely sustaining heavy armor dps as a stam dk or magplar with CP? Have you even had extensive pvp experience in both Cp and no Cp? Enough to know the differences?

The simple fact is this. A vast majority players prefer to be unkillable with enough damage to burst the players they outsustain, more so than they like playing high damage specs that can kill a variety of builds but can also be killed. Cp 100% caters to these players, while no Cp allows for a variety of specs to be viable without anyone being able to reach the threshold of unkillable whide still doing damage.

If you don't think Cp will ruin battlegrounds, you are delusional.

Mihael

It's sad how complacent we as players have become, we all paid for battlegrounds with real money and we just let zos give us a very crappy version of battlegrounds with not a single mention of when they will try to improve it if ever, and also no real response to the ton of players who either want it to stay no cp or give an option to do both

lucky_Sage

cp will ruin bgs for me there already is unkillable warden tanks lets add the rest. cant wait for a tdm with a stamblade with the power buff and gets a 18k incap

Derra

Waffennacht wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

The thing is, like you said, current players want to keep it no CP, I bet ZoS figures more players will join with CP enabled.

Imo, whatever has the higher population is the better choice, only time will tell

Or you know, just offer both and make it a separate DLC purchase outside of Morrowind.

Or free... I agree... I want everyone to have access, but that's me

I only bought morrowind for bgs - i haven´t done any of it´s content...
But well it´s not like i´m playing battlegrounds at the moment - so fire away

Battlegrounds will still be a failure as long as there is no matchmaking and non playtime based ranking. I don´t think zos will ever manage that though.

Juhasow

Minno wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

I hate CP, but... bgs became so depopulated that any way to revitilze it is welcomed.

It was a double wall:
- locked behind expensive chapter.
- locked behind nCP.

If it was free, like undaunted pledges are, you'd see more players joining in. But for the most part, PvP has too much of a learning curve and players don't like hard content with pay wall restrictions.

Morrowind price atm is around 15$ sooo...

Would you pay 15$ for one game mode that only has a handful of maps and as soon as you join you are faced with a pre-made group that distroys you?

Even if that's the lowest price, some players paid full price. And while those players might have joined a BG, pre-made groups made their Mark; you are seeing months of organized groups eat up the pop that was willing to try BGs.

Question You're asking have nothing to do with my previous response. You said Morrowind is expensive when it actually isnt. BG are dead not because people have to pay for Morrowind but because BG sucks. Lets be honest PvP days when it was actually hard and realy skill requiring are long gone. Yes You can meet premades but if Morrowind would be free You wouldnt ? Also I think there is quite opposite connetion between content difficulty and pay restrictions , new content should be hard otherwise it's boring and not engaging and this is happening with BGs. BGs are not engaging that's why lot of people who have Morrowind chapter is not participating in them and I doubt things would have changed after BGs would become free. Free players would also found them boring. Main problem is in BGs itself not in paywall.

Turelus

Juhasow wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

I hate CP, but... bgs became so depopulated that any way to revitilze it is welcomed.

It was a double wall:
- locked behind expensive chapter.
- locked behind nCP.

If it was free, like undaunted pledges are, you'd see more players joining in. But for the most part, PvP has too much of a learning curve and players don't like hard content with pay wall restrictions.

Morrowind price atm is around 15$ sooo...

Would you pay 15$ for one game mode that only has a handful of maps and as soon as you join you are faced with a pre-made group that distroys you?

Even if that's the lowest price, some players paid full price. And while those players might have joined a BG, pre-made groups made their Mark; you are seeing months of organized groups eat up the pop that was willing to try BGs.

Question You're asking have nothing to do with my previous response. You said Morrowind is expensive when it actually isnt. BG are dead not because people have to pay for Morrowind but because BG sucks. Lets be honest PvP days when it was actually hard and realy skill requiring are long gone. Yes You can meet premades but if Morrowind would be free You wouldnt ? Also I think there is quite opposite connetion between content difficulty and pay restrictions , new content should be hard otherwise it's boring and not engaging and this is happening with BGs. BGs are not engaging that's why lot of people who have Morrowind chapter is not participating in them and I doubt things would have changed after BGs would become free. Free players would also found them boring. Main problem is in BGs itself not in paywall.

The main problem no, but still one which limits the pool of players to those paying RRP £40

Give it no pay wall and a CP/No CP choice and at least everyone can play in their preferred way. They're gambling that more CP players will do BG than the loss of No CP players. I sure as hell won't play them any more and will have to go back to No CP Cyrodiil for my PvP.

Zer0oo

They did it because cp campaign is more popular and the population of bg is fast declining. The change will not improve the bg population, it may even get smaller since some ppl who still play bg prefer ncp.

The problem was always that bg are right now to 90% of the time are no fun:

• unbalanced team
• bugged grp-tool(dont think they ever fixed it, it are just not enough ppl more interested so it doesnt bug out that much)
• more running than pvp if you want to win(seriously if i even see capture the relic i want to vomit)
• missing competitive elements(matchmaking / leader board / customized matches)
• no good rewards/rare rewards/ weekly rewards..
• bad design of some game modes/mechanics(pvp secondary/avoiding to pvp to win, op damage buff right under enemy/own base....)
• ...

But i guess it is easier to add cp instead of tackling why bg are so unpopular. (I actually like cp pvp)

Minno

Turelus wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

I hate CP, but... bgs became so depopulated that any way to revitilze it is welcomed.

It was a double wall:
- locked behind expensive chapter.
- locked behind nCP.

If it was free, like undaunted pledges are, you'd see more players joining in. But for the most part, PvP has too much of a learning curve and players don't like hard content with pay wall restrictions.

Morrowind price atm is around 15$ sooo...

Would you pay 15$ for one game mode that only has a handful of maps and as soon as you join you are faced with a pre-made group that distroys you?

Even if that's the lowest price, some players paid full price. And while those players might have joined a BG, pre-made groups made their Mark; you are seeing months of organized groups eat up the pop that was willing to try BGs.

Question You're asking have nothing to do with my previous response. You said Morrowind is expensive when it actually isnt. BG are dead not because people have to pay for Morrowind but because BG sucks. Lets be honest PvP days when it was actually hard and realy skill requiring are long gone. Yes You can meet premades but if Morrowind would be free You wouldnt ? Also I think there is quite opposite connetion between content difficulty and pay restrictions , new content should be hard otherwise it's boring and not engaging and this is happening with BGs. BGs are not engaging that's why lot of people who have Morrowind chapter is not participating in them and I doubt things would have changed after BGs would become free. Free players would also found them boring. Main problem is in BGs itself not in paywall.

The main problem no, but still one which limits the pool of players to those paying RRP £40

Give it no pay wall and a CP/No CP choice and at least everyone can play in their preferred way. They're gambling that more CP players will do BG than the loss of No CP players. I sure as hell won't play them any more and will have to go back to No CP Cyrodiil for my PvP.

They do look and some situations in BGs occur where an entire team is tanky, but because you don't have the extra offense you cannot dent some builds. In CP you can.

And I have been playing BGs these days; but only because I know there's no lag there and Vivec cyro is poop at times.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

I see no unkillable builds in BG. There is less of a crutch on CP. CP is a nice way to optimize a PvE build but honestly after playing more and more BG I find PvP way more fun without CP.

I still don’t get why they can’t have the option to do CP OR no CP BG. Then everyone would be happy. Que times wouldn’t change as it’s damn near instant as it is now and the majority of people playing now would continue to que for non CP. the people who asked for CP BG will que for theirs.

Lexxypwns

Rohaus wrote: »

I have said it before and I will say it again... I don’t give a flying pan handle if ZOS all of a sudden gave Battlegrounds away for free... I’d rather have a large pool of players to play against than whine about how I paid for it and the free loaders didn’t...

Battlegrounds are pretty lame right now due to seeing the same turds over and over.

Yeah, you basically know the quality of the match by the names present.

Baconlad wrote: »

Ok...how many players do you guys accually think you will run across that are invulnerable tanks? The thought that its going to be riuned is ludicrous. Sure there will be trolls and maybe even whole teams of trolls...but ultimately your not going to find that many of them.

On my platform the pre-maxes that just get off on pug stomping already run the absolute most tightly tuned meta they can imagine, typically 3 tanky SnB builds, usually 2 of which are healers. What makes you think these teams aren't going to keep min/maxing? Now you have to do the same thing to compete and incoming tank meta

Toc de Malsvi

Zer0oo wrote: »

They did it because cp campaign is more popular and the population of bg is fast declining. The change will not improve the bg population, it may even get smaller since some ppl who still play bg prefer ncp.

The problem was always that bg are right now to 90% of the time are no fun:

• unbalanced team
• bugged grp-tool(dont think they ever fixed it, it are just not enough ppl more interested so it doesnt bug out that much)
• more running than pvp if you want to win(seriously if i even see capture the relic i want to vomit)
• missing competitive elements(matchmaking / leader board / customized matches)
• no good rewards/rare rewards/ weekly rewards..
• bad design of some game modes/mechanics(pvp secondary/avoiding to pvp to win, op damage buff right under enemy/own base....)
• ...

But i guess it is easier to add cp instead of tackling why bg are so unpopular. (I actually like cp pvp)

Dont agree with all your points. I do agree that very possibly BG population will fall off after an initial boost from players who think that cp is going to make their special build perform better.

Toc de Malsvi

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Rohaus wrote: »

I have said it before and I will say it again... I don’t give a flying pan handle if ZOS all of a sudden gave Battlegrounds away for free... I’d rather have a large pool of players to play against than whine about how I paid for it and the free loaders didn’t...

Battlegrounds are pretty lame right now due to seeing the same turds over and over.

Yeah, you basically know the quality of the match by the names present.

Baconlad wrote: »

Ok...how many players do you guys accually think you will run across that are invulnerable tanks? The thought that its going to be riuned is ludicrous. Sure there will be trolls and maybe even whole teams of trolls...but ultimately your not going to find that many of them.

On my platform the pre-maxes that just get off on pug stomping already run the absolute most tightly tuned meta they can imagine, typically 3 tanky SnB builds, usually 2 of which are healers. What makes you think these teams aren't going to keep min/maxing? Now you have to do the same thing to compete and incoming tank meta

Yup, 1 warden/dk tank running snares and poisons, 1-2 SnB templar/warden healers, 1-2 Sorc/NB dps to finish people off and get kills.